They continue to sound like a very reasonable, peaceful group.Report: 8 Killed in Russian School Standoff
Wednesday, September 01, 2004
BELSAN, Russia — More than a dozen militants wearing bomb belts seized a southern Russian school in a region bordering Chechnya (search) on Wednesday, taking hostage about 400 people — half of them children — and threatening to blow up the building if police storm it. As many as eight people have been reported killed, one of them a school parent.
Hours into the desperate standoff, security officials said they had made brief contact with the hostage-takers. Russian special forces wearing camouflage and carrying heavy-caliber machine guns surrounded Middle School No. 1. About 1,000 people, mostly parents, were massed around the three-story building in the town of Belsen, demanding information and accusing the government of failing to protect their children.
Kazbek Dzantiyev, head of the North Ossetia region's Interior Ministry, said that the hostages have threatened "for every destroyed fighter, they will kill 50 children and for every injured fighter — 20 (children)," the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.
At one point, a girl wearing a floral print dress and a red bow in her hair fled the school, her hand held by a flak-jacketed soldier. An older woman followed them. Ruslan Ayamov, spokesman for North Ossetia's Interior Ministry told The Associated Press that 12 children and one adult managed to escape after hiding in the building's boiler room.
The attack was the latest blamed on secessionist Chechen rebels, coming a day after a homicide bomber killed nine people in Moscow and a week after near-simultaneous explosions blamed on terrorists caused two Russian planes to crash, killing all 90 people on board. The surge in violence was apparently timed around last Sunday's Chechen presidential election.
"In essence, war has been declared on us, where the enemy is unseen and there is no front," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said.
President Vladimir Putin (search) interrupted his working holiday Wednesday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi for a second time and returned to the capital. On arrival at the airport, he held an immediate meeting with the heads of Russia's Interior Ministry and Federal Security Service, the Interfax news agency said.
The standoff began after a ceremony marking the first day of the Russian school year, when it was likely that many parents had accompanied their children. About 17 militants, men and women, stormed the three-story building and herded captives into the gymnasium. They forced children to stand at the windows and warned they would blow up the school if police intervened, said Alexei Polyansky, a police spokesman for southern Russia.
"I was standing near the gates, music was playing, when I saw three armed people running with guns. At first I though it was a joke when they fired in the air and we fled," a teenager, Zarubek Tsumartov, said on Russian television.
Hours after the seizure, Regional Federal Security Service chief Valery Andreyev said on NTV television that negotiations with the hostage-takers "are just, just beginning" and that brief contact had not allowed authorities to evaluate the situation in Belsen, located 10 miles north of the regional capital of Vladikavkaz
The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing local hospitals, reported that seven people died of injuries in the hospital and one was killed at the site during the seizure.
But Regional Emergency Situations Minister Boris Dzgoyev told The Associated Press that two civilians were killed and nine hospitalized, and that two bodies were visible near the school. Interfax cited a health official as saying four people were killed, but the emergencies ministry later said the toll was two.
Dzgoyev said a girl was also lying near the building, presumably wounded, but officials said the area could not be approached because it was coming under fire.
Fatima Khabalova, spokeswoman for the regional parliament, earlier said one of the dead was a father who brought his child to the school and was shot when he tried to resist the raiders. She also said at least nine people had been injured in gunfire, including three teachers and two police officers.
Suspicion in both the school attack and the Moscow bombing fell on Chechen rebels or their sympathizers, but there was no evidence of any direct link. The attacks came around Chechnya's presidential elections, a Kremlin-backed vote aimed at undermining support for the insurgents by establishing a modicum of civil order in the war-shattered republic. The previous president, Akhmad Kadyrov, was killed with more than 20 others in a bombing May 9.
The militants inside the school released one hostage with a list of their demands, including the freedom of fighters detained over a series of attacks on police facilities in neighboring Ingushetia in June, ITAR-Tass reported.
They also seek talks with regional officials and a well-known pediatrician, Leonid Roshal, who aided hostages during the deadly seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002, news reports said.
Parents of the seized children recorded a videocassette appeal Putin to fulfill the terrorists' demands, Khabalova said. The text of the appeal was not immediately available.
The violence was the latest to plague the government of Putin, who came to power vowing to crush the Chechen rebellion. Terrorism fears in Russia have risen markedly following the plane crashes and the suicide bombing outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday night. The blast by a female attacker tore through a busy area between the station and a department store, killing nine people and wounded more than 50.
Authorities said Tuesday that 10 people were killed, but Interfax reported Wednesday that Moscow health officials revised that, saying one man who died in a hospital was not a victim of the blast.
A militant Muslim web site published a statement claiming responsibility for the bombing on behalf of the "Islambouli Brigades," a group that also claimed responsibility for the airliner crashes. The statements could not immediately be verified.
The statement said Tuesday's bombing was a blow against Putin, "who slaughtered Muslims time and again." Putin has refused to negotiate with rebels in predominantly Muslim Chechnya who have fought Russian forces for most of the past decade, saying they must be wiped out.
Regional emergency officials said about 400 people including some 200 children were being held captive in the Belsen school, ITAR-Tass reported. A regional police official said the hostages had been herded into the school gymnasium. There were 17 attackers, both male and female, Interfax said, citing Ismel Shaov, a regional spokesman for the Federal Security Service.
Those peaceful Muslims are at it again...
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Those peaceful Muslims are at it again...
Nothing confirmed yet that they are Muslims, but it's not a tough one to guess at.

-
*~*stragi*~*
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3876
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
- Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
- Contact:
-
*~*stragi*~*
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3876
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
- Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
- Contact:
-
*~*stragi*~*
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3876
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
- Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
- Contact:
-
*~*stragi*~*
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3876
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
- Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
- Contact:
- noel
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 10003
- Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Calabasas, CA
The other part of this is that the reason they're committing acts of terrorism has NOTHING to do with their religion.Cartalas wrote:While I agree with you Noel, Their track is not really good lately.
It's like calling the Kurdish rebels terrorists against Iraq.
Or calling the minutemen terrorists against Great Britain.
Last edited by noel on September 1, 2004, 2:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
- Sylvus
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7033
- Joined: July 10, 2002, 11:10 am
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: mp72
- Location: A², MI
- Contact:
From what I understand, it's more analagous to a civil war or the revolutionary war. Yes, they happen to be Muslim, but so what? What religion were most Confederates during the civil war? If it were 1863 and you opened up a newspaper would you say "Those peaceful Methodists (or Catholics or Seventh Day Adventists or whoever-the-fuck-cares) are at it again!"
It's merely coincidence.
It's merely coincidence.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant." - Barack Obama
Go Blue!
Go Blue!
Simple: They are not fighting for their religion or in the name of their religion, they are fighting for the freedom of their people and their land. The fact that you think this has anything to do with religion shows how completely naive and uninformed you are.Metanis wrote:Would you care to elaborate on that?noel wrote:The other part of this is that the reason they're committing acts of terrorism has NOTHING to do with their religion.
- Drolgin Steingrinder
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3510
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 5:28 pm
- Gender: Male
- PSN ID: Drolgin
- Location: Århus, Denmark
If the US was still involved in Vietnam and a vietnamese woman suicide-bombed a south vietnamese school, I'm sure Midnyte or Metanis would be the first to condemn the muslim terrorist act.
The Chechnyans could be buddhist, hindus, taoists, mormons, scientologists, locked-up presbyterians or whatever the fuck they want, it wouldn't change the situation.
The Chechnyans could be buddhist, hindus, taoists, mormons, scientologists, locked-up presbyterians or whatever the fuck they want, it wouldn't change the situation.
IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
I'M LIKE THE UNCLE WHO HUGGED YOU A LITTLE TOO LONG
I'M LIKE THE UNCLE WHO HUGGED YOU A LITTLE TOO LONG
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Your inability to see something that's right in front of your face makes you an idiot. But it doesn't make me a bigot.Lynks wrote:For who? Terrorists or Muslims...im not making any for terrorists you fucking bigot.
You fail to see the venom in this religion. Not everyone lives their live that way of course. But, enough of them have lately to deserve a look at what these people are truly about.
- noel
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 10003
- Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Calabasas, CA
Listen you fucking clownboat. Terrorism is wrong and evil, and no sane person would make excuses for the action. While on a certain level, I can understand what motivates people to perform terrorist acts, I will never excuse the act, nor will any sane person.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Keep making excuses for them.
Having said all of that... making blanket statements about a religion based on the actions of a minority IS ALSO AN INEXCUSABLE ACT.
You're a deplorable human being Midnyte.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
-
Lynks
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 2774
- Joined: September 30, 2002, 6:58 pm
- XBL Gamertag: launchpad1979
- Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Cool, now heres a website for you, but I'm sure its your default webpage.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Your inability to see something that's right in front of your face makes you an idiot. But it doesn't make me a bigot.Lynks wrote:For who? Terrorists or Muslims...im not making any for terrorists you fucking bigot.
You fail to see the venom in this religion. Not everyone lives their live that way of course. But, enough of them have lately to deserve a look at what these people are truly about.
That website is also a venom for christianity, but you don't group all of them together like you do for terrorists and Muslims do you?
Add hypocrite to your resume now thank you.
- Arborealus
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 3417
- Joined: September 21, 2002, 5:36 am
- Contact:
Bonus points Eddie Izzard reference!Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:If the US was still involved in Vietnam and a vietnamese woman suicide-bombed a south vietnamese school, I'm sure Midnyte or Metanis would be the first to condemn the muslim terrorist act.
The Chechnyans could be buddhist, hindus, taoists, mormons, scientologists, locked-up presbyterians or whatever the fuck they want, it wouldn't change the situation.
you guys are aware there is a civil war that has been ongoing in Russia for several years in the region called Chechnya?
yeah, Chechins are largely Muslim that is certainly true. But this conflict is so much older than anything that Bin Laden is involved in or moves the masses in the streets of the Gaza Strip.
For instance if you read Russian novels that are 200-300 years old, like A Hero of Our Time by Alexi(?) Lermontov, you will see that the Russians have had a pretty low opinion of Chechins for hundreds of years.
THe reason that groups tend to employ terrorist tactics is because they do not have the might to match
you guys know that there are many different reasons groups people could have conflicts with a government. Because they employ common tactics does not mean they have a common agenda. That is the same intellectual laziness that a Muslim in the streets of Jenin would say that the US military action on Afghanistan is like the Crusades.
That kind of "logic" puts our invasion of Iraq in the same pigeon hole as Hitler's invasion of France - since we used lots of tanks to punch holes in fortification lines.
yeah, Chechins are largely Muslim that is certainly true. But this conflict is so much older than anything that Bin Laden is involved in or moves the masses in the streets of the Gaza Strip.
For instance if you read Russian novels that are 200-300 years old, like A Hero of Our Time by Alexi(?) Lermontov, you will see that the Russians have had a pretty low opinion of Chechins for hundreds of years.
THe reason that groups tend to employ terrorist tactics is because they do not have the might to match
you guys know that there are many different reasons groups people could have conflicts with a government. Because they employ common tactics does not mean they have a common agenda. That is the same intellectual laziness that a Muslim in the streets of Jenin would say that the US military action on Afghanistan is like the Crusades.
That kind of "logic" puts our invasion of Iraq in the same pigeon hole as Hitler's invasion of France - since we used lots of tanks to punch holes in fortification lines.
Mydnight has made the same type of generalizing comment that all you lemmings well not all of you but you have supported it.
I.e All Republicans Suck
i.e White middle class males suck
The most recent is the attack on all americans for what you think we are doing wrong. For example the Olympics some of made comments about poor sportsmanship only becuase they were americans.
So before you start pointing your fingers at Mdynight look at your bigot selfs im sure you will be suprised.
I.e All Republicans Suck
i.e White middle class males suck
The most recent is the attack on all americans for what you think we are doing wrong. For example the Olympics some of made comments about poor sportsmanship only becuase they were americans.
So before you start pointing your fingers at Mdynight look at your bigot selfs im sure you will be suprised.
This recent conflict has gone on for a decade (or 9 years to be exact if I am not wrong..). Quite a bit of it has been Russian military forces against Chechnyan rebel forces in pretty hardcore military fights. The Russians have done atrocities towards the Chechnyan civilians that would make you lose your dinner and any apetite for days afterwards. The Chechnyans are no angels either, that is for sure. The whole situation is really really nasty.. one of the worse I can think of in recent history.
- Kwonryu DragonFist
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5413
- Joined: July 12, 2002, 6:48 am
Hehe, there are OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of chinese muslims as well as Thai-boxers in Thailand that are muslims!
None of them are terrorists or dabble with explosives!
A positive note with the chinese muslims is that they are very good at making different dishes from lamb!
When i visited X'ian i tried at least 5 different dishes all made out of lamb and they all tasted delicious!
It's also interesting to see architecture inspired by the middle-east combined with chinese architecture in the chinese cities where there are many muslims.
None of them are terrorists or dabble with explosives!
A positive note with the chinese muslims is that they are very good at making different dishes from lamb!
When i visited X'ian i tried at least 5 different dishes all made out of lamb and they all tasted delicious!
It's also interesting to see architecture inspired by the middle-east combined with chinese architecture in the chinese cities where there are many muslims.
- Krimson Klaw
- Way too much time!

- Posts: 1976
- Joined: July 22, 2002, 1:00 pm
- Dregor Thule
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5994
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
- PSN ID: dregor77
- Location: Oakville, Ontario
- Dregor Thule
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5994
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
- PSN ID: dregor77
- Location: Oakville, Ontario
Were they Uzbeks?Kwonryu DragonFist wrote: When i visited X'ian i tried at least 5 different dishes all made out of lamb and they all tasted delicious!
It's also interesting to see architecture inspired by the middle-east combined with chinese architecture in the chinese cities where there are many muslims.
-=Lohrno
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
You have no idea how much I wish people could take a step back and look at the big picture and stop refusing to look at the connections because they feel they must be the champion to all minorities whether right nor wrong.Dregor Thule wrote:You have no idea how much I wish it was just him trolling for a reaction and not him representing his beliefs at all.Niffoni wrote:I think we need a Mydnyte drinking game.
1 drink every time Mydnyte trolls,
2 drinks every time a liberal takes the bait and goes apeshit
Your blind support will get people killed. My cautious support will save lives.
- Dregor Thule
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5994
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
- PSN ID: dregor77
- Location: Oakville, Ontario
You know, I never looked at it that way. I think you've finally broken through my shell of ignorance. My synapses are firing with fresh, new ideas on how we can deal with this ghost of a threat. I've got it! We can set up these camps, or as I like to think of them, "detention resorts", where we can send all the Muslims for "indentured holidays". Guilty or innocent, it doesn't matter. Treat all Muslims equal! Equality is the American dream!Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You have no idea how much I wish people could take a step back and look at the big picture and stop refusing to look at the connections because they feel they must be the champion to all minorities whether right nor wrong.
Your blind support will get people killed. My cautious support will save lives.
Four more years! Four more years! Four more ye--please flip tape to side B.
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
See you take it too far. Why must you do that? All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to recognize the apparent violent nature of many muslims right now. It is in their bible and in many of their actions all around the world. Of course there are a large portion of peaceful muslims, btu unfortunately they don't seem to upset and outraged at what these "radicals" are doing in the name of their imaginary bullshit religion.Dregor Thule wrote:You know, I never looked at it that way. I think you've finally broken through my shell of ignorance. My synapses are firing with fresh, new ideas on how we can deal with this ghost of a threat. I've got it! We can set up these camps, or as I like to think of them, "detention resorts", where we can send all the Muslims for "indentured holidays". Guilty or innocent, it doesn't matter. Treat all Muslims equal! Equality is the American dream!Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You have no idea how much I wish people could take a step back and look at the big picture and stop refusing to look at the connections because they feel they must be the champion to all minorities whether right nor wrong.
Your blind support will get people killed. My cautious support will save lives.
Four more years! Four more years! Four more ye--please flip tape to side B.
If there was a sect of Jewish people all around the world and they kept perpetrating bombings and beheadings in the name of the Jewish Faith, I'm thinking there would be mass distancing from normal peaceful Jews all around the world.
- Dregor Thule
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5994
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
- PSN ID: dregor77
- Location: Oakville, Ontario
Oh, is that all you're saying? Look at most religions, they're violent. It gives believers that self-righteous fervor that is needed to support such charlatan organizations. American males are violent assholes. There's plenty of evidence out there of American men being violent while at the same time being assholes, therefore, it's safe for me to put my brain in neutral and say that all American males are violent assholes. Now sure, some poor guys who are non-violent, nice men will be kicked up in the dirt thanks to the others, but if they aren't part of the solution then they're part of the problem.
And yes Voro, taking children hostage is inexcusable. That school incident will not end well at all. At best the troops will get in there and take out the bastards with minimal loss of innocent lives. Realistically, seeing as how they're covered in explosives, it's going to be a very messy ending.
And yes Voro, taking children hostage is inexcusable. That school incident will not end well at all. At best the troops will get in there and take out the bastards with minimal loss of innocent lives. Realistically, seeing as how they're covered in explosives, it's going to be a very messy ending.
- Midnyte_Ragebringer
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 7062
- Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
- Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Wrong. If you look and listen, you can find PLENTY of very upset Muslims who are more than mildly peeved at the actions of radicals. I think the problem is, beheadings get more air time.Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
See you take it too far. Why must you do that? All I'm saying is, it is not wrong to recognize the apparent violent nature of many muslims right now. It is in their bible and in many of their actions all around the world. Of course there are a large portion of peaceful muslims, btu unfortunately they don't seem to upset and outraged at what these "radicals" are doing in the name of their imaginary bullshit religion.
As a "fer instance": In France, the government and those who were opposed to the religious symbol ban stood together less than 24 hours after the hostages were taken in Iraq. Even though they disagreed vehemently on the law that passed in France, one Muslim representative said* that it was France's problem - that they didn't want outsiders (i.e. extremists in Iraq) deciding how the French Muslims should live.
Think about it. If the major media sources start showing us Muslims who aren't foaming-at-the-mouth Zealots, we might become confused, and our wonderful vision of Muslims as teh debil incarnate might not stand up to scruitiny! I'm glad no one on this board would ever lump people together like that, though.
Oh for the simple days of the color-coded threat meter! Life would be so much easier if I didn't have to think.
*I forgot his name, was listening on the radio on the drive home.
edit: spelling > me
There is not enough disk space available to delete this file, please delete some files to free up disk space.
- Dregor Thule
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 5994
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:59 pm
- Gender: Male
- XBL Gamertag: Xathlak
- PSN ID: dregor77
- Location: Oakville, Ontario
Why give Christianity a pass? Budhism? Mormons? Ok, sorry, that last one doesn't count as a bonified religion, my badMidnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Exactly. So why give Islam a pass?Dregor Thule wrote:Oh, is that all Look at most religions, they're violent. It gives believers that self-righteous fervor that is needed to support such charlatan organizations. American males are violent assholes. .
- masteen
- Super Poster!

- Posts: 8197
- Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
- Gender: Mangina
- Location: Florida
- Contact:
The very few Muslims I've met here are the nicest people. They also raise kids who have a good understanding of action and consequence, which I mention because 90% of the Catholic/Baptist/Protestant kids in the schools are fucking illiterate heathens.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt


