Some guidelines that would make the average "look at this L33T LINK" poster more accessable by some.. most of us do this already, but there are some clueless twits out there..
1. When you post a link to a news article, copy and paste the article (or important highlights) by using the {quote} {/quote} feature. The link should serve as the validation that you aren't talking out of your ass (more than usual).
2: When you post a link to l33t video #967, give a brief synopsis of what the video is and don't forget to include if it's WS or not. Remember, something that is WS to you (flapping tits) may not be WS to someone at a community college or working with uptight management... or people that work around really anal co-workers.
3: If an image is questonabily NWS, just make it a link with a tag that reads "may be nws".
4: If you post a link to a new game comming out.. try to remember to post a release date.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Akaran_D wrote:1. When you post a link to a news article, copy and paste the article (or important highlights) by using the {quote} {/quote} feature. The link should serve as the validation that you aren't talking out of your ass (more than usual).
Yeah, I'd been debating adding that to the rules lately. When you copy and paste content from another post or site, put it in the
tags. Not only does it make it easier to read, it lets us know that you aren't trying to farm VVs by spamming. I've noticed a lot of people not using the quote function lately, I'm going to start removing VVs and editing your posts if you don't shape up.
If you are having trouble figuring out how to use the quote tags, feel free to drop me a pm. You're obviously too stupid to use this board and I'll ban your account accordingly.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
You forgot to mention our friends the period, the question mark, and the comma.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
You're trying to train someone who thinks, "Wow...just wow" is a good title for a thread.
Siji has become the cut and paste news king. Giving Kwon his own thread drastically reduced the clutter in the other forums. I think a Siji "News you can't use" forum would do the same to cut down on total posts.
Umm I would rather see the old VV way of gaining numbers and avoid the junior hitlerism, for godssakes Power does not corrupt, it just attracts those who are corruptable.
I sometimes think of using quotes, and sometimes do not, bunch of happy you know what bullshit starting now, welcome to IGN2
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
I have long enjoyed the freedom we have here to post as we choose. I love the fact that the only rule we have is for the FF tag.
It troubles me to see that we now must have a myriad of little rules for how we express ourselves.
It goes against the spirit of this bboard. It diminishes the sparkle.
I live in a world where I'm under the authority of the police, my boss, the IRS. I have to step in line and mind my Ps and Qs all day long.
When I come to this board I come to enjoy the FREEDOM that we have to express ourselves any way we want.
I hate to see the rule nazi mentality come crashing in to my last bastion of escape.
I dislike the [quote] feature for long articles because it makes a long article harder to read. I don't use it. Short quotes work fine, but not long ones.
I chafe at the idea that after 3+ years I'm being "moderated" into using the quote feature for when I post long tracts of text.
I always identify my sources, and I always provide a link to the material that I cut and paste.
There is no NEED to enforce some silly rules about features that were included as courtesy not necessity.
Please don't start the rule nazi crap here. This is our last place of escape.
I'm not asking for a set of posting rules. Just a set of posting guidlines - like try not to piss in the pool while you're swimming in it.
You know, nice things that people can do to make their topics more readable and understandable.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
The effect of being accountable to yet another authority was disheartening.
For the sake of readabilty in long posts (*quote* works fine for small stuff) . I like changing the color of the text to blue for instance. That way the font isn't squeezed and you're still able to distinguish between your words and the cut and pasted guy's words.
You know what, you're right. My fault, when I first read the thread, I thought someone was talking about something more grammar related. So consider coment retracted.
Long quotes in the white box are smaller, squeezed and harder to read than normally formatted text.
No they aren't.
Get some fucking glasses and stop whining like a baby. Jesus Christ, why don't you donate some of your free time you're spending whining to a worthy charity or something.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Winnow wrote:You had to go all the way back to May to find those? Both excellent threads I might add!
Feel free to take a look at the reply count on the last 10 of your posts and the last 10 of mine in the Current Events (ala "news") section. If my posts are so worthless, why do the replies to them outnumber yours by over 100? Actually, save yourself the time - because quite honestly, I really don't give a fook about your opinion. See the STFU button? Hit it. That's what it's for. This is a message board. It's for posting messages.
Akaran_D wrote:I'm not asking for a set of posting rules. Just a set of posting guidlines - like try not to piss in the pool while you're swimming in it.
When someone threatens to edit your posts, remove VV's, and/or ban you - that's not a request or guideline. That's enforcement of stupid ass rules.
Winnow wrote:You had to go all the way back to May to find those? Both excellent threads I might add!
Feel free to take a look at the reply count on the last 10 of your posts and the last 10 of mine in the Current Events (ala "news") section. If my posts are so worthless, why do the replies to them outnumber yours by over 100? Actually, save yourself the time - because quite honestly, I really don't give a fook about your opinion. See the STFU button? Hit it. That's what it's for. This is a message board. It's for posting messages.
Long quotes in the white box are smaller, squeezed and harder to read than normally formatted text.
No they aren't.
Get some fucking glasses and stop whining like a baby. Jesus Christ, why don't you donate some of your free time you're spending whining to a worthy charity or something.
Aranuil,
Over the years I've seen you freak out and "whine" more than the rest of us. We've come to accept that as part of your personality. It surprises me that you now take offense at the very actions you regularly engage in.
Permit me this opportunity to express my reasons for not using the quote feature on long threads.
And in the spirit of "not wasting time" consider what I've said. I don't think you need to bother enforcing the quote feature. It smells too much of IGN. Surely that is not something that you wish to embody?
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Over the years I've seen you freak out and "whine" more than the rest of us. We've come to accept that as part of your personality. It surprises me that you now take offense at the very actions you regularly engage in.
Permit me this opportunity to express my reasons for not using the quote feature on long threads.
And in the spirit of "not wasting time" consider what I've said. I don't think you need to bother enforcing the quote feature. It smells too much of IGN. Surely that is not something that you wish to embody?
Adex,
Your commentary on my personal behavior has nothing to do with the fact that a moderator request for you to use the quote functionality of this board is in no way opression.
My 'freaking out' has to do with the fact that I'm sick and tired of seeing a bunch of people whine about freedom when moderators make simple requests for some rules around here.
Again, devote some energy to something that matters.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
Winnow wrote:You had to go all the way back to May to find those? Both excellent threads I might add!
Feel free to take a look at the reply count on the last 10 of your posts and the last 10 of mine in the Current Events (ala "news") section. If my posts are so worthless, why do the replies to them outnumber yours by over 100? Actually, save yourself the time - because quite honestly, I really don't give a fook about your opinion. See the STFU button? Hit it. That's what it's for. This is a message board. It's for posting messages.
quality not quantity
yes, quality is more important. glad you figured that out winnow and stopped posting inconsequential pics of kittens and catch-phrases.
I never recall Siji doing that, but to each his own when it comes to quality I guess.
Lalanae Burundi High Chancellor for Tourism, Sodomy and Pie
Unofficial Canadian, Forbidden Lover of Pie, Jesus-Hatin'' Sodomite, President of KFC (Kyoukan Fan Club), hawt, perververted, intellectual submissive with E.S.P (Extra Sexual Persuasion)
Winnow wrote:You had to go all the way back to May to find those? Both excellent threads I might add!
Feel free to take a look at the reply count on the last 10 of your posts and the last 10 of mine in the Current Events (ala "news") section. If my posts are so worthless, why do the replies to them outnumber yours by over 100? Actually, save yourself the time - because quite honestly, I really don't give a fook about your opinion. See the STFU button? Hit it. That's what it's for. This is a message board. It's for posting messages.
quality not quantity
I can categorically say that your posts, Winnow, are not about quality, and are in fact about quantity.
How many threads have I initiated compared to Siji over the past year?
You are quick to jump on the Winnow bash wagon but the point was new threads. I can't hijack what's not already there.
What I'm getting at is if you have two equally lame posts, it's in the best interest of clutter to add it to the same thread as opposed to start a new one if you absolutely must post them.
Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, I'm oppressing you because I want you to use the quote function. How is that anything like what happened at IGN? Nowhere did I say that you couldn't post whatever you want to post. I am not silencing your voice or anything along those lines. I'm asking everyone to please use the quote function when they are quoting something, as that's kind of what it was made for.
About 85% of the board already uses it, a few people don't and I'm trying to encourage them to. With the new VV system in place, you get points for having longer posts. When we implemented the system a month or so ago, we amended the rules to add a "no spamming" clause. The only way to enforce that clause is to be even-handed about it. All I said was that if you posted a quote without quoting I was either going to remove the VVs that you did not earn for posting it and/or re-format it. The ban thing was a joke, read it again. Ha ha?
The quote tags make it so much easier to differentiate between your ideas and the ideas of others. They also show us that you're not trying to cheat the system. Please use them. If it chaps your ass that badly, don't.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
Can't the default color and size of quoted text be modified? I have zero problems reading it as is but if someone has a suggestion for font size, color and background color, show a sample here.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et quam ut nibh venenatis commodo. Ut dictum. Quisque felis lectus, ullamcorper quis, vulputate non, semper quis, libero. Morbi congue, turpis in consectetuer feugiat, diam risus consectetuer leo, vel viverra turpis magna id arcu. In sed justo. Praesent molestie, risus id vestibulum tristique, metus leo sodales ante, eu placerat neque eros quis lorem. Cras tempor lorem ut ligula. Aliquam convallis bibendum libero. Aenean dignissim, erat quis vestibulum molestie, diam enim euismod augue, non molestie sem risus at nunc. Phasellus rutrum. Vivamus pellentesque rutrum dolor. Aenean eu nisl. Proin ultricies.
In arcu. Sed ac magna eget libero consectetuer tristique. Quisque tempor. Curabitur eget metus. Nam ipsum purus, pellentesque et, aliquet eget, venenatis pharetra, nibh. Quisque eleifend, augue congue tempor consequat, sem magna mollis leo, a fermentum nulla mi sed odio. Nam mattis viverra sem. Nunc non sapien. Vivamus mi massa, molestie quis, tristique nec, egestas non, dui. In risus. Donec ligula. Nulla laoreet porta velit. Suspendisse posuere nisl sit amet metus. Fusce molestie ligula quis ante. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Praesent porttitor justo in sem. Pellentesque est.
Curabitur bibendum magna quis libero. Quisque tristique purus nec mauris. Maecenas pellentesque mi at dui. Nulla magna. Nulla aliquet. Praesent condimentum. Vestibulum lorem enim, porta sed, nonummy id, volutpat in, augue. Aliquam justo pede, congue in, ullamcorper ut, consequat et, nisl. Fusce a enim. Etiam sagittis condimentum nulla. Mauris elit nibh, scelerisque fringilla, ultricies ut, molestie sit amet, massa. Nunc tempus neque vel dolor. Sed fermentum accumsan arcu. Maecenas velit mi, lacinia sit amet, eleifend vitae, ultricies sit amet, wisi. Sed eget dui. Nunc nisl ante, semper sed, dictum ut, dignissim adipiscing, ligula. Donec malesuada.
Nullam feugiat dui nec urna. In fermentum pulvinar eros. Nullam sit amet velit ac felis sagittis adipiscing. Curabitur ante justo, pharetra vitae, volutpat a, adipiscing sed, eros. Nunc pulvinar, arcu quis facilisis sollicitudin, orci enim ornare est, id dignissim ante ipsum non nulla. Vestibulum tristique. Proin urna erat, imperdiet eu, molestie et, aliquam a, pede. Aliquam mi ligula, scelerisque nec, congue sed, viverra eu, dolor. Nam rhoncus. In ornare, pede sit amet pharetra molestie, sem tellus laoreet orci, ut mattis urna magna at lorem. In sed neque. Nullam luctus massa vitae lectus. Aliquam urna neque, tincidunt nec, tempor sit amet, dictum quis, ante. Phasellus rutrum. Sed consequat, diam eu varius feugiat, ante wisi ultrices sapien, eu scelerisque massa nunc eget arcu. Nullam hendrerit.
Integer orci est, malesuada et, rhoncus vel, congue sed, dui. Sed feugiat eleifend lorem. Pellentesque iaculis venenatis nisl. Suspendisse pellentesque semper nibh. Donec ultrices lacinia orci. Morbi velit. Proin et tortor. Phasellus tempor, sapien ut tincidunt adipiscing, ante urna tempus sapien, et accumsan quam leo eget orci. In lectus. Suspendisse potenti. Suspendisse diam urna, suscipit vel, tristique eu, tincidunt vitae, purus. Praesent nunc urna, interdum nec, interdum in, aliquet eget, pede. Nullam at turpis.
Here are some comments that I am writing about what was posted above this. I contend that it is much easier for my comments to get "lost in the shuffle" if I just post them in the exact same format of the text that I have quoted. The important distinction to make is that posting in this format leaves it up to the reader to determine which piece was written by an author from the source article and which is commentary by the poster. The only formatting difference between using the quote functionality and not using it is that the font size is a little bit smaller.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
Cicero, to some degree, wrote:Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et quam ut nibh venenatis commodo. Ut dictum. Quisque felis lectus, ullamcorper quis, vulputate non, semper quis, libero. Morbi congue, turpis in consectetuer feugiat, diam risus consectetuer leo, vel viverra turpis magna id arcu. In sed justo. Praesent molestie, risus id vestibulum tristique, metus leo sodales ante, eu placerat neque eros quis lorem. Cras tempor lorem ut ligula. Aliquam convallis bibendum libero. Aenean dignissim, erat quis vestibulum molestie, diam enim euismod augue, non molestie sem risus at nunc. Phasellus rutrum. Vivamus pellentesque rutrum dolor. Aenean eu nisl. Proin ultricies.
In arcu. Sed ac magna eget libero consectetuer tristique. Quisque tempor. Curabitur eget metus. Nam ipsum purus, pellentesque et, aliquet eget, venenatis pharetra, nibh. Quisque eleifend, augue congue tempor consequat, sem magna mollis leo, a fermentum nulla mi sed odio. Nam mattis viverra sem. Nunc non sapien. Vivamus mi massa, molestie quis, tristique nec, egestas non, dui. In risus. Donec ligula. Nulla laoreet porta velit. Suspendisse posuere nisl sit amet metus. Fusce molestie ligula quis ante. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Praesent porttitor justo in sem. Pellentesque est.
Curabitur bibendum magna quis libero. Quisque tristique purus nec mauris. Maecenas pellentesque mi at dui. Nulla magna. Nulla aliquet. Praesent condimentum. Vestibulum lorem enim, porta sed, nonummy id, volutpat in, augue. Aliquam justo pede, congue in, ullamcorper ut, consequat et, nisl. Fusce a enim. Etiam sagittis condimentum nulla. Mauris elit nibh, scelerisque fringilla, ultricies ut, molestie sit amet, massa. Nunc tempus neque vel dolor. Sed fermentum accumsan arcu. Maecenas velit mi, lacinia sit amet, eleifend vitae, ultricies sit amet, wisi. Sed eget dui. Nunc nisl ante, semper sed, dictum ut, dignissim adipiscing, ligula. Donec malesuada.
Nullam feugiat dui nec urna. In fermentum pulvinar eros. Nullam sit amet velit ac felis sagittis adipiscing. Curabitur ante justo, pharetra vitae, volutpat a, adipiscing sed, eros. Nunc pulvinar, arcu quis facilisis sollicitudin, orci enim ornare est, id dignissim ante ipsum non nulla. Vestibulum tristique. Proin urna erat, imperdiet eu, molestie et, aliquam a, pede. Aliquam mi ligula, scelerisque nec, congue sed, viverra eu, dolor. Nam rhoncus. In ornare, pede sit amet pharetra molestie, sem tellus laoreet orci, ut mattis urna magna at lorem. In sed neque. Nullam luctus massa vitae lectus. Aliquam urna neque, tincidunt nec, tempor sit amet, dictum quis, ante. Phasellus rutrum. Sed consequat, diam eu varius feugiat, ante wisi ultrices sapien, eu scelerisque massa nunc eget arcu. Nullam hendrerit.
Integer orci est, malesuada et, rhoncus vel, congue sed, dui. Sed feugiat eleifend lorem. Pellentesque iaculis venenatis nisl. Suspendisse pellentesque semper nibh. Donec ultrices lacinia orci. Morbi velit. Proin et tortor. Phasellus tempor, sapien ut tincidunt adipiscing, ante urna tempus sapien, et accumsan quam leo eget orci. In lectus. Suspendisse potenti. Suspendisse diam urna, suscipit vel, tristique eu, tincidunt vitae, purus. Praesent nunc urna, interdum nec, interdum in, aliquet eget, pede. Nullam at turpis.
Here are some comments that I am writing about what was posted above this. I contend that it is much easier for my comments to get "lost in the shuffle" if I just post them in the exact same format of the text that I have quoted. The important distinction to make is that posting in this format leaves it up to the reader to determine which piece was written by an author from the source article and which is commentary by the poster. The only formatting difference between using the quote functionality and not using it is that the font size is a little bit smaller.
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."- Barack Obama
Fuck all of you who are whining about being 'oppressed' by the "evil" mods....Jesus on a stick, you people are fucking annoying. Cry my a fucking river you pissy little simps.
Does sorta seem like the mods are actually making work for themselves in this case...Frankly it seems a waste of time and energy making someone's post more readable...And ultimately non-enforcable short of bans....
I just ignore posts that are poorly formatted or punctuated making them in my estimation difficult to read...Why in the hell would a mod spend time correcting these sorts of errors?
I think this is ultimately pretty damn silly and a waste of time and energy...but ya know...knock yourselves out...
Cicero, to some degree, wrote:Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et quam ut nibh venenatis commodo. Ut dictum. Quisque felis lectus, ullamcorper quis, vulputate non, semper quis, libero. Morbi congue, turpis in consectetuer feugiat, diam risus consectetuer leo, vel viverra turpis magna id arcu. In sed justo. Praesent molestie, risus id vestibulum tristique, metus leo sodales ante, eu placerat neque eros quis lorem. Cras tempor lorem ut ligula. Aliquam convallis bibendum libero. Aenean dignissim, erat quis vestibulum molestie, diam enim euismod augue, non molestie sem risus at nunc. Phasellus rutrum. Vivamus pellentesque rutrum dolor. Aenean eu nisl. Proin ultricies.
In arcu. Sed ac magna eget libero consectetuer tristique. Quisque tempor. Curabitur eget metus. Nam ipsum purus, pellentesque et, aliquet eget, venenatis pharetra, nibh. Quisque eleifend, augue congue tempor consequat, sem magna mollis leo, a fermentum nulla mi sed odio. Nam mattis viverra sem. Nunc non sapien. Vivamus mi massa, molestie quis, tristique nec, egestas non, dui. In risus. Donec ligula. Nulla laoreet porta velit. Suspendisse posuere nisl sit amet metus. Fusce molestie ligula quis ante. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Praesent porttitor justo in sem. Pellentesque est.
Curabitur bibendum magna quis libero. Quisque tristique purus nec mauris. Maecenas pellentesque mi at dui. Nulla magna. Nulla aliquet. Praesent condimentum. Vestibulum lorem enim, porta sed, nonummy id, volutpat in, augue. Aliquam justo pede, congue in, ullamcorper ut, consequat et, nisl. Fusce a enim. Etiam sagittis condimentum nulla. Mauris elit nibh, scelerisque fringilla, ultricies ut, molestie sit amet, massa. Nunc tempus neque vel dolor. Sed fermentum accumsan arcu. Maecenas velit mi, lacinia sit amet, eleifend vitae, ultricies sit amet, wisi. Sed eget dui. Nunc nisl ante, semper sed, dictum ut, dignissim adipiscing, ligula. Donec malesuada.
Nullam feugiat dui nec urna. In fermentum pulvinar eros. Nullam sit amet velit ac felis sagittis adipiscing. Curabitur ante justo, pharetra vitae, volutpat a, adipiscing sed, eros. Nunc pulvinar, arcu quis facilisis sollicitudin, orci enim ornare est, id dignissim ante ipsum non nulla. Vestibulum tristique. Proin urna erat, imperdiet eu, molestie et, aliquam a, pede. Aliquam mi ligula, scelerisque nec, congue sed, viverra eu, dolor. Nam rhoncus. In ornare, pede sit amet pharetra molestie, sem tellus laoreet orci, ut mattis urna magna at lorem. In sed neque. Nullam luctus massa vitae lectus. Aliquam urna neque, tincidunt nec, tempor sit amet, dictum quis, ante. Phasellus rutrum. Sed consequat, diam eu varius feugiat, ante wisi ultrices sapien, eu scelerisque massa nunc eget arcu. Nullam hendrerit.
Integer orci est, malesuada et, rhoncus vel, congue sed, dui. Sed feugiat eleifend lorem. Pellentesque iaculis venenatis nisl. Suspendisse pellentesque semper nibh. Donec ultrices lacinia orci. Morbi velit. Proin et tortor. Phasellus tempor, sapien ut tincidunt adipiscing, ante urna tempus sapien, et accumsan quam leo eget orci. In lectus. Suspendisse potenti. Suspendisse diam urna, suscipit vel, tristique eu, tincidunt vitae, purus. Praesent nunc urna, interdum nec, interdum in, aliquet eget, pede. Nullam at turpis.
Here are some comments that I am writing about what was posted above this. I contend that it is much easier for my comments to get "lost in the shuffle" if I just post them in the exact same format of the text that I have quoted. The important distinction to make is that posting in this format leaves it up to the reader to determine which piece was written by an author from the source article and which is commentary by the poster. The only formatting difference between using the quote functionality and not using it is that the font size is a little bit smaller.
ROFL, I had to translate that in HS like 10 years ago... I was like WTF?! This looks familiar!
This thread is like a bunch of teenagers showing up at a friends house to hang out when the parents aren't there. The kid who lives there asks that they put the the beer cans in the recycling bin and not put their shoes on the furniture. The friends respond with "WTF??! You are oppressing my freedom of expression, bitch!".
archeiron wrote:This thread is like a bunch of teenagers showing up at a friends house to hang out when the parents aren't there. The kid who lives there asks that they put the the beer cans in the recycling bin and not put their shoes on the furniture. The friends respond with "WTF??! You are oppressing my freedom of expression, bitch!".
How long has this board been here now? All of the sudden quoting or not quoting is a big problem?
The quoting isn't a huge problem and the original post on this thread was just a friendly suggestion and not hostile.
I guess people can continue with non descriptive thread titles and just a link in the body of the message and life will go on.
When people suggest formatting tips and other insane things like posting a comment about what you just quoted or linked instead of leaving readers with a simple link on a discussion board, it doesn't mean you're being flamed.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Winnow wrote:The quoting isn't a huge problem and the original post on this thread was just a friendly suggestion and not hostile.
I guess people can continue with non descriptive thread titles and just a link in the body of the message and life will go on.
When people suggest formatting tips and other insane things like posting a comment about what you just quoted or linked instead of leaving readers with a simple link on a discussion board, it doesn't mean you're being flamed.
For the record my last post was mostly done out of the desire to use that graphic that I haven't used in a while!
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
