It's never enough

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 23, 2004, 4:44 pm

Kerry, Bush in Political Firefight

Monday, August 23, 2004

WASHINGTON — President Bush (search) said Monday that a veterans' group should stop airing television ads criticizing John Kerry's (search) war record.

Bush said ads from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), a 527 group named after its status in the tax code, should be pulled. The call from Bush could open him up to charges that the Bush-Cheney campaign is coordinating with an unregulated political organization.

"That means that ad and every other ad. I don't believe we ought to have 527s. I think they're bad for the system," Bush said on Monday in Crawford, Texas. "I frankly thought we'd gotten rid of it when I signed McCain-Feingold" campaign finance reform.

Bush said that he thought Kerry "served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record," but it remains undecided whether that will extinguish the political firefight that has built over Kerry's service in Vietnam.

Consider the latest:

— Former Sen. Bob Dole (search) — the Republicans' 1996 presidential nominee — suggested Sunday that Kerry apologize for past testimony before Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War. He joined critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds."

— On Monday, Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards said Bush should call for the group to remove the ad. He called Bush's decision to do so a "test of character" for the president. After Bush's comments, Edwards expressed disappointment.

"The moment of truth came and went, and the President still couldn't bring himself to do the right thing," he said.

— Also on Monday, Democrats arranged for reporters a conference call with Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker, who said Kerry acted honorably and bravely. In a separate news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., crewmate Del Sandusky said he personally witnessed the battle action for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts.

"He deserved every one of his medals," Sandusky, a retired computer repairman who drove Kerry's boat for nearly three months.

— On Sunday, the Kerry campaign released a new ad accusing the president of backing Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), the group which has released a series of spots calling into question Kerry's heroism. In the Kerry ad, the narrator claims that families are losing jobs and health care while "George Bush's campaign supports a front group attacking John Kerry's military record." The ad calls the attacks "smears" and "lies."

— In response to the Kerry ad, the Bush campaign sent a letter to television station managers Monday "to set the record straight." The Bush campaign letter "flatly rejects this baseless allegation of illegal coordination between Bush-Cheney '04 and a group called Swiftboat Veterans for Truth."

Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan told FOX News that Bush didn't do what Kerry implored because he didn't denounce the Swift boat ads specifically, but called for an end to all 527 ads.

The uproar over Kerry's service has dominated much of the political news since the Democratic senator from Massachusetts accepted his party's presidential nomination with a speech that centered on his biography and his military service.

Kerry spent four months in Vietnam leading a "swift boat" crew but was sent home after accumulating his third Purple Heart for injuries he received.

"Swift boat" was the common term in Vietnam for the small U.S. Navy patrol boat officially known as a Patrol Craft Fast (search), or PCF.

The political attacks on Kerry have been twofold. First, critics say Kerry embellished his Vietnam record. Second, they say Kerry disrespected his fellow veterans when he returned home and testified before Congress about what he described as "atrocities" being committed by Americans in combat.

Kerry defender and National Director of Veterans for Kerry (search) John Hurley called the Swift Boat Vets' ads "dishonest and dishonorable."

"This is a Republican smear campaign. ... The United States Navy awarded John Kerry a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Every single man who served under his command, when he won those awards, supports John Kerry," Hurley told FOX News Sunday, adding that all the members of the Swift Boat group except for one never met Kerry in Vietnam.

That one sailor, Van Odell, a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, said Kerry was not under enemy fire, as the "after-action report" that earned him his Bronze Star states.

"I do not have a document that says that," Odell admitted, adding that no one else at the scene of the fight thought it was medal-worthy. "I was up at the highest point. I could see all around. I could see what was going on. I fired a few hundred rounds when the mine first went off. And after that we quit firing because — and then we spent an hour in the kill zone, and nobody was shot or wounded.

"None of us knew that he even got the Bronze Star. None of us knew that any of this was going on. We didn't know until after he left about the Purple Heart. And I didn't know about his Bronze Star until about three months ago that they got for this action," he told FOX News Sunday.

Odell also rejected charges that the organization he represents is funded by people who have worked in conjunction with the Republican Party.

"Our message is our message, and no one tells us what to say," Odell said.

Federal law prohibits any direct involvement between private organizations, known as 527s, and anyone connected to a presidential campaign. On Sunday, the Bush campaign stated that it had released from volunteer duty a campaign worker who served in Vietnam and appears in one of the Swift Boat ads. The campaign said Col.Ken Cordier (search) failed to disclose his involvement with the group.

Democrats complain that the Republican Party's involvement goes much deeper than that.

The swift boat group clearly "is coordinated with the Bush Cheney campaign," said Angelo Genova, attorney for the Democratic Party. There is "direct evidence of overlapping consultants, overlapping fund-raisers. ... Here we have Texas supporters of the president involved. Karl Rove himself has been implicated."

Jan Baran, former general counsel for the Republican National Committee, dismissed these charges. "All of the factual allegations regarding overlap under FEC regulations are basically superficial."

All the back-and-forth is disappointing Sen. Joe Lieberman (search), D-Conn., the 2000 Democratic vice presidential candidate. He told FOX News Sunday that Kerry's war record has consumed all the attention while more important issues in the presidential campaign are being ignored.

"What really infuriates me and amazes me is that we're spending this much time and energy debating what happened 35 years ago instead of talking more about the war on terrorism we're in today, about our health care, education, environment, economic problems, and what George Bush and John Kerry are going to do for the next four years. That's what we ought to be debating."

Fox News' Steve Centanni and Sharon Kehnemui contributed to this report.

Bush looks at the big picture and says all 527's are bad and need to go and yet he is still talked bad about because he didn't play the Dems little children game of pointing out the little things. What a big fucking day care we live in.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 23, 2004, 5:18 pm

Bush said ads from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), a 527 group named after its status in the tax code, should be pulled.

He did not specifically mention "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth".

Edwards comment was specifically aimed at Bush's reluctance to bring up the name of the group.

I do have to give Bush a nod for acklowledging Kerry's military service. Now if only his advertising campaign would follow suit (which I doubt).

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 23, 2004, 5:22 pm

Why would Bush put on ads applauding Kerry's service record?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 23, 2004, 5:26 pm

because he is supposed to support the military and the veterans as opposed to just paying lip service to it and then cutting veteran's benefits and pensions.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 23, 2004, 5:28 pm

masteen wrote:Why would Bush put on ads applauding Kerry's service record?

I meant his attack ads on Kerry's military service should stop.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 23, 2004, 5:32 pm

kyoukan wrote:because he is supposed to support the military and the veterans as opposed to just paying lip service to it and then cutting veteran's benefits and pensions.

WTF does that have to do w/ presidential campaign ads?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 23, 2004, 6:25 pm

masteen wrote:
kyoukan wrote:because he is supposed to support the military and the veterans as opposed to just paying lip service to it and then cutting veteran's benefits and pensions.
WTF does that have to do w/ presidential campaign ads?

kyoukan believes Bush should suck Kerry's cock while Kerry bashes Bush with this own ads. It seems fair to me!

I think someone has been playing too much CoH and is living in Bizarro World.

Bush did the right thing in suggesting the ads be removed. Any whining from Edwards or the democrats nitpicking what Bush said is because they lack anything else to say positive about their own campaign.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 23, 2004, 7:09 pm

eh would you really expect them to be 100% happy? I can guarantee you that if the roles were reversed the same things would be said. It is a game, and they are just playing our their roles.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 23, 2004, 7:40 pm

I am so fucking tired of both Bush and Kerry and Dole and anyone else who wants to talk about it bringing up this TOTAL non-issue that has absolutely zero bearing on the shitty performance either of them will give if they win the election.

Rasspotari · Post by **Rasspotari** » August 23, 2004, 8:26 pm

sad part is, one of them will win, and you have to blame yourselves for voting for them

i know how u feel sorta, but here the president has no power, he's just a symbol of unison, no political job.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 23, 2004, 9:09 pm

noel wrote:I am so fucking tired of both Bush and Kerry and Dole and anyone else who wants to talk about it bringing up this TOTAL non-issue that has absolutely zero bearing on the shitty performance either of them will give if they win the election.

His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.

On another note: Bush said ALL 527's ads should go bye bye. Therefore, he has said the Swift Boat ads should go as well. A little tough for some of you to comprehend, but I guess that is to be expected.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 23, 2004, 9:25 pm

the Democrats dont actually expect Bush to disclaim the Swiftboat ad.

THey are in the middle of media damage control. Every news show is showing the Swiftboat commercial twice an hour. Basically giving it more airtime than they could have ever hoped to pay for. So the countermeasure by the DNC is to try to associate the group with Bush.

It is debatable whether or not the group is at all tied to Bush, but the Democrats will reduce some of the damage they have suffered if they can create the impression that is part of a Republican orchestrated smear tactic.

I doubt Edwards really expects Bush to say anything about it. He said "that ad" today and denouced "that ad and all the others", so that is another baby step towards the association.

On the Newshour tonight an analyst expects it to all be over this week, with the RNC starting Monday, the GOP will be focusing on Bush's closing message, but thye know that the Swiftboat campaign brought Kerry back to them a bit - whether or not they had any hand in it, it served their greater purpose.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 23, 2004, 9:31 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
noel wrote:I am so fucking tired of both Bush and Kerry and Dole and anyone else who wants to talk about it bringing up this TOTAL non-issue that has absolutely zero bearing on the shitty performance either of them will give if they win the election.
His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.

On another note: Bush said ALL 527's ads should go bye bye. Therefore, he has said the Swift Boat ads should go as well. A little tough for some of you to comprehend, but I guess that is to be expected.

Get your facts streght, he did two tours, the length of ONE was 4 months..."the highly dangerous one"
This veitnam shit needs to stop, on both sides

Il admit i liked Kerry a lot before he said he would have supported an authority to invade Iraq. Im thinking Clarke would have been the better choice. Either way out of the pick Kerry is still 2nd best, and he will make a decent president

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 23, 2004, 9:43 pm

Winnow, Midnyte, being that your both...i believe at least atheist neocons, what do you think about this quote? spoken by your hero

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 23, 2004, 9:46 pm

Xzion wrote:Winnow, Midnyte, being that your both...i believe at least atheist neocons, what do you think about this quote? spoken by your hero

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Another example of something I disagree with Bush about. I respect his willing to not hide who he is and what he is about. I like how he doesn't mold into whatever the latest poll says he should be like. I respect a man with a backbone. At least I know where he stands. Who the fuck knows where Kerry truly stands on anything?

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 23, 2004, 10:06 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xzion wrote:Winnow, Midnyte, being that your both...i believe at least atheist neocons, what do you think about this quote? spoken by your hero

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Another example of something I disagree with Bush about. I respect his willing to not hide who he is and what he is about. I like how he doesn't mold into whatever the latest poll says he should be like. I respect a man with a backbone. At least I know where he stands. Who the fuck knows where Kerry truly stands on anything?

hmm, you really want to give your support to a man who doesnt think you are for lack of a better term, as "good" as a christian?
a man who doesnt think you should be an american citizen, or a patriot for that matter, and your ass is gonna vote for him?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · August 23, 2004, 10:11 pm

Xzion wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xzion wrote:Winnow, Midnyte, being that your both...i believe at least atheist neocons, what do you think about this quote? spoken by your hero

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Another example of something I disagree with Bush about. I respect his willing to not hide who he is and what he is about. I like how he doesn't mold into whatever the latest poll says he should be like. I respect a man with a backbone. At least I know where he stands. Who the fuck knows where Kerry truly stands on anything?
hmm, you really want to give your support to a man who doesnt think you are for lack of a better term, as "good" as a christian?
a man who doesnt think you should be an american citizen, or a patriot for that matter, and your ass is gonna vote for him?

Yes, I am able to look past myself to what I think would be best for my country. If I were to abandon a politician based on one thing I disagree with, I would never vote.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 23, 2004, 10:29 pm

what was that quote from?

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 23, 2004, 11:10 pm

Voronwë wrote:the Democrats dont actually expect Bush to disclaim the Swiftboat ad.

THey are in the middle of media damage control. Every news show is showing the Swiftboat commercial twice an hour. Basically giving it more airtime than they could have ever hoped to pay for. So the countermeasure by the DNC is to try to associate the group with Bush.

It is debatable whether or not the group is at all tied to Bush, but the Democrats will reduce some of the damage they have suffered if they can create the impression that is part of a Republican orchestrated smear tactic.

I doubt Edwards really expects Bush to say anything about it. He said "that ad" today and denouced "that ad and all the others", so that is another baby step towards the association.

On the Newshour tonight an analyst expects it to all be over this week, with the RNC starting Monday, the GOP will be focusing on Bush's closing message, but thye know that the Swiftboat campaign brought Kerry back to them a bit - whether or not they had any hand in it, it served their greater purpose.

Most of the time we disagree. I'm not 100% sure I buy this but it's a good analysis.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 23, 2004, 11:17 pm

Xzion wrote:Winnow, Midnyte, being that your both...i believe at least atheist neocons, what do you think about this quote? spoken by your hero

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Xzion,

1.) I find no credible source for that quote.

2.) It was written about George H.W. Bush... the current president's father.

Your post was lame.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » August 23, 2004, 11:20 pm

Sionistic wrote:what was that quote from?

Actually, that was from Bush Sr.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 23, 2004, 11:41 pm

Metanis wrote:
Most of the time we disagree. I'm not 100% sure I buy this but it's a good analysis.

even a broken clock is right 2 times a day!

now which one of us is the clock that works?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 24, 2004, 12:12 am

Metanis wrote:
Xzion,

1.) I find no credible source for that quote.

2.) It was written about George H.W. Bush... the current president's father.

Your post was lame.

I repeat: Xzion puts Midnyte to shame when it comes to outrageous posts.

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » August 24, 2004, 1:25 am

Xzion wrote: Get your facts streght, he did two tours, the length of ONE was 4 months..."the highly dangerous one"
This veitnam shit needs to stop, on both sides

Il admit i liked Kerry a lot before he said he would have supported an authority to invade Iraq. Im thinking Clarke would have been the better choice. Either way out of the pick Kerry is still 2nd best, and he will make a decent president

Before telling others to get thier facts straight, emphasis on spelling it correctly, do a bit of checking yourself. Kerry served 4 months in Vietnam, his first tour was off the California coast. Also, he did vote in Oct of 2002 to authorize military action in Iraq, he just seems to regret it now.

As for the Sherman/Bush quotes, which have already been pointed out to refer to Bush Sr; they seem to originate from bobsherman.com and evilbible.com, neither of which seem to be actual news sites to me nor can I find this quoted anywhere reliable.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » August 24, 2004, 5:23 am

Winnow wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Xzion,

1.) I find no credible source for that quote.

2.) It was written about George H.W. Bush... the current president's father.

Your post was lame.
I repeat: Xzion puts Midnyte to shame when it comes to outrageous posts.

You wish. He's a tard who fucks up his facts, but at least he's not a bigot.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 24, 2004, 7:34 am

Winnow wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Xzion,

1.) I find no credible source for that quote.

2.) It was written about George H.W. Bush... the current president's father.

Your post was lame.
I repeat: Xzion puts Midnyte to shame when it comes to outrageous posts.

How was that ourageous, what HW Bush said...now that was extreme and outrageous

at least Midnyte ate the bait, prooving he does support Republicans/conservatives, or whatever it is he says he stands for blindly.
I dont think Winnow believes in anything, looks like he just likes to play the Devils advocate, if this was a right-tilting board he would just take the other side.

either way if daddy thinks that, you dont think dubya has similar views?

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 24, 2004, 7:40 am

okay moore

Burke · Post by **Burke** » August 24, 2004, 9:48 am

Cry "moore", n00b?

noel · Post by **noel** » August 24, 2004, 12:32 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
noel wrote:I am so fucking tired of both Bush and Kerry and Dole and anyone else who wants to talk about it bringing up this TOTAL non-issue that has absolutely zero bearing on the shitty performance either of them will give if they win the election.
His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.

On another note: Bush said ALL 527's ads should go bye bye. Therefore, he has said the Swift Boat ads should go as well. A little tough for some of you to comprehend, but I guess that is to be expected.

Neither Kerry's or Bush's integrity is worth even looking at in this election. If I want to see integrity, I'll look to my father. I don't expect integrity from politicians, and again, this is a total non-issue.

I would much rather have the candidates spend the time they're wasting on this non-issue on something important like their plans to balance the budget, improve education, etc. etc.

This is a huge waste of time, and frankly I'm tired of it.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 24, 2004, 12:39 pm

The "too little too late" comments are amusing. Seeing as how just last week Senior campaign advisors from the Kerry camp were on TV saying that Bush should condemn the ads, but they then say that it wasn't enough when they stopped running the week BEFORE they said he should dismiss them. The disorganization on BOTH sides is what is holding up discussion of the issues. I believe it was on CNN late last week when the two sides were both saying that the issues should be the focus, but everytime the Kerry advisor was talking the swiftees came up. From that, I just got pushed another inch farther from listening to the next time the two are both up.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 24, 2004, 12:59 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.

You're so full of shit. Back up your facts please. Here are the items that you claim are true, please give me links and/or quotes to an unbiased report that backs them up.

1. Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts
2. Kerry is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history.
3. Kerry shed no blood to receive his decorations.
4. Kerry has no record of any injuries that contributed to his decorations.
5. Kerry had a 4 month career in battle.

For the record, I believe at least one of those is true, but I'd like to see the sources you're using for each of them. Thanks.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 24, 2004, 1:25 pm

I am shocked and awed that Midnyte would resort to lies and exaggeration!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 24, 2004, 1:37 pm

1. Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts

No one recollects recommending Kerry for these. Therefore, since Kerry has refused to release this information, one can conclude he must have recommended himself.

2. Kerry is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history.

I've gotten this from hearing it from Glen Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Ollie North on the radio. Must be some truth to it if tons of people are saying it. Seems realistic too, considering it being such a small time for all those medals.

3. Kerry shed no blood to receive his decorations.

Refer to response for Question 1.

4. Kerry has no record of any injuries that contributed to his decorations.

Navy does have reports of how he hurt his arm. Of course it differs from the story he told in an interview years later. But hey, that's Kerry for ya!. Apparently he lives in his own little world that doesn't have books, tapes, video to record previous statements.

5. Kerry had a 4 month career in battle.

I got this from Voronwe

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 24, 2004, 1:43 pm

So in other words, once again you got no proof behind your claims. Surprise.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » August 24, 2004, 1:45 pm

The US Military allows people to recommend THEMSELVES for medals!?!?!
I mean wtf. . .

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 24, 2004, 1:53 pm

Kelshara wrote:So in other words, once again you got no proof behind your claims. Surprise.

If Kerry would release the documents , no one would have to speculate so much Kelshara. You find it so easy to question Bush, but now to speculate about Kerry is so insane a concept for you? lol

Fredonia Coldheart · Post by **Fredonia Coldheart** » August 24, 2004, 2:06 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.

Wow - he must be a medical miracle. How did that piece of shrapnel in his leg (which they never removed and he has to this day) get there without him ever bleeding? And how dare he accept a Purple Heart for that!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » August 24, 2004, 2:11 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
2. Kerry is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history.
I've gotten this from hearing it from Glen Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Ollie North on the radio. Must be some truth to it if tons of people are saying it. Seems realistic too, considering it being such a small time for all those medals.

Good one. There must be some truth to it if tons of people are saying it. Do you also take that argument as valid to prove that Bush is a moron? Tons of people saying that too.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » August 24, 2004, 2:20 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:No one recollects recommending Kerry for these. Therefore, since Kerry has refused to release this information, one can conclude he must have recommended himself.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 24, 2004, 2:21 pm

Hesten wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
2. Kerry is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history.
I've gotten this from hearing it from Glen Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Ollie North on the radio. Must be some truth to it if tons of people are saying it. Seems realistic too, considering it being such a small time for all those medals.
Good one. There must be some truth to it if tons of people are saying it. Do you also take that argument as valid to prove that Bush is a moron? Tons of people saying that too.

Bush does come off as a moron 90% of the time. No disputing that.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 24, 2004, 3:57 pm

the fact that 5 radio shows repeat the same statements as "facts" Midnyte, just means that they get the daily conservative talking points that come out of Grover Norquist's morning conference call.

That or they get the talking points faxed to them directly from Karl Rove's office. In fact John McCain (the most quoted guy in this campaign, hehe) said on the Daily Show last fall that Rove's office does just that, sends talking points to radio shows and print journalists.

its a phenomenon that i've heard described as an "echo chamber". cable news makes this worse, because all 3 major networks are extremely eager to be "first", which means they often don't do in depth investigation on stuff before reporting on it. If they do that, one of the other 2 networks will run away with a story. Now sure all 3 of them do after some days air some more introspective pieces on the issue, but by then we've kind of reached a saturation point on the issue.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 24, 2004, 5:00 pm

There used to be e different name for it too:

Yellow Journalism

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 24, 2004, 7:25 pm

Even if he faked all those injuries, it's a lot better than George W Bush, who was the evil mastermind behind the world trade center attacks. There is no documents that I've seen that proves that he is innocent, so until I see them then I will consider it to be true.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » August 24, 2004, 7:34 pm

kyoukan wrote:Even if he faked all those injuries, it's a lot better than George W Bush, who was the evil mastermind behind the world trade center attacks. There is no documents that I've seen that proves that he is innocent, so until I see them then I will consider it to be true.

And you wouldn't be alone in that thought process.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 24, 2004, 7:43 pm

Siji wrote:
kyoukan wrote:Even if he faked all those injuries, it's a lot better than George W Bush, who was the evil mastermind behind the world trade center attacks. There is no documents that I've seen that proves that he is innocent, so until I see them then I will consider it to be true.
And you wouldn't be alone in that thought process.

No she wouldn't. There are many idiots out there.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » August 24, 2004, 8:17 pm

Fredonia Coldheart wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:His integrity does matter to the campaign though. The fact Kerry recommended himself for his 3 purple hearts, is quite amusing. The fact he is the most decorated soldier for the shortest amount of time in the military's history without shedding blood or having any record of the injuries that got him those purple hearts is amusing. If he didn't push his Nam record all over the place there wouldn't be this influx of accounts of his 4 month career in battle. He brought this on himself. I would like to see him clear his name.
Wow - he must be a medical miracle. How did that piece of shrapnel in his leg (which they never removed and he has to this day) get there without him ever bleeding? And how dare he accept a Purple Heart for that!

Actually when I had my car wreck way back in pre-history the hood release handle punched a 3/4 inch square hole in my leg a couple of inches below my knee just beside the bone, and that didnt bleed at all. It just sorta oozed a thin trail of goo about 4-5 inches down my leg and that was about it. It wasnt blood, it was sorta pulverised flesh or something, very strange. Didnt even notice till I got home afterwards and got undressed to take a shower. So wierd stuff can happen with wounds sometimes. Never did find the piece that broke off the handle either...

*Hugs*
Varia

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 24, 2004, 8:53 pm

kyoukan wrote:Even if he faked all those injuries, it's a lot better than George W Bush, who was the evil mastermind behind the world trade center attacks. There is no documents that I've seen that proves that he is innocent, so until I see them then I will consider it to be true.

And I believe you were behind the spread of Aids and until I see a document Ill consider it to be true.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » August 24, 2004, 9:02 pm

Cartalas wrote: And I believe you were behind the spread of Aids and until I see a document Ill consider it to be true.

So you believe in guilty until proven innocent huh?

-=Lohrno

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 24, 2004, 10:41 pm

Lohrno wrote:
Cartalas wrote: And I believe you were behind the spread of Aids and until I see a document Ill consider it to be true.

So you believe in guilty until proven innocent huh?

-=Lohrno

In her case yes

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 24, 2004, 10:47 pm

oh cart, you took what I said and repeated it right back to me. can anyone keep up with the pace of your wit?