Jerry Falwell...

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 13, 2002, 8:24 pm

needs to die

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 13, 2002, 9:01 pm

Yes, he does. What kind of fucking idiot calls Muhammed (sp), who set an example for an entire religion much as Christ does for Christianity, a terrorist? Falwell should know better, after his post Sept. 11 comments, not to open his mouth in public again.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 13, 2002, 9:28 pm

People only get indignant when its a christain saying stuff.

When's the last time folks rioted over a Lewis Farakan statement.

When's the last time folks rioted over some outlandish statement from Ayatolah in Iran?

Hey I know life's not fair but I call bullshit over this.

A guy who's REALLY into christanity states his opinion that Mohammed a warlike fella. Well WHUP TE DO! What did you expect JERRY FALLWELL to say?

Give me a break.

Those rioters were looking for an excuse to go kill people. Jerry Falwell was just the flavor of the day.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 13, 2002, 10:51 pm

The truth is anyone that thinks religion myths are worth killing over one way or another is full of shit.

/em still patiently waiting for mankind to outgrow this religion BS

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » October 14, 2002, 1:21 am

Kylere...i wouldn't hold yer breath. It is all hard wired into the robotic drones that people have become. Well...at least a lot of them.

Xaem · Post by **Xaem** » October 14, 2002, 1:33 am

WTF does this fucker know about Muhammad. I wrote an essay on Muhammadism (The Islamic Religion) at the beginning of the summer, heres an excerpt from it:

Islam began in Arabia, in 622 CE. Today it has spread beyond the land of its birth to areas in middle Africa and India, and all around the globe. Islam is now the official religion of such areas such as Turkey, North Africa, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and parts of the Philippine Islands. In the United States alone, there are about 60,000 Muslims. The religion is very adaptable to many conditions; it suggests rules and statistics from both the Christian and Jewish religions. Oftentimes, Christians and Jews are surprised to find that Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, and others from the religions are also important to Muslims. Although Jews and Christians will find much that is familiar in Islam, they will also find much that is different. The Prophet Muhammad, who gave Islam to the world, it’s founder, taught that God sometimes sent messengers to inform people of God’s will. Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, and Christ, according to Mohammed, were the greatest of these early messengers of God. Muhammad kept the basic moral codes of the other two religions. The Muslim hell is also similar, but the idea of heaven is quite different. Five times each day, hundreds of millions of Muslims face Mecca to pray.

Muhammad founded most of modern-day Islamic religion, and helped start a completely new type of culture in the world. He was born into the world as an orphan named Kutam. His father died shortly before he was born in 570 CE. Kutam’s mother also died when he was six. He lived with his grandfather until he was eight years old until he was taken in by his uncle, abu-Talib. He joined the camel caravans as soon as he was old enough to shift for himself. He traveled with these caravans from Mecca in Arabia to Syria, Palestine, and even to Egypt. He started out as a helper, but soon became a camel driver. He was phenomenally intelligent, much more so than that of other camel drivers. He not only knew his friends, he knew what they believed in and what their opinions on certain world problems were.
Kutam’s honesty and concern for his work brought him to the attention of a rich widow named Khadijah. She hired him to drive her camels when he was 25 years old and Khadijah was 40. Not long after he was hired, she asked him to marry her, and he agreed. Now that he was married, his wife gave him the security needed for study and contemplation. He began withdrawing into the seclusion that led to his contact with Gabriel, and when Kutam received a message from Allah, it was Khadija who convinced him that his vision was indeed a message from God. His rise to become ‘The Prophet’ had just begun, however. One year in Mecca there were heavy rains, and the Kaaba was damaged. When the black stone was repaired, there was an argument over which clan would have the privilege of replacing the sacred stone in the shrine wall, for they all wanted the privilege for its sheikh. They agreed to give the next man who entered the temple courtyard the chance to replace the stone, and this man was Kutam, who was well known for his great piety. He felt that the other clan leaders may resent him putting the stone in the wall, for his clan was but a small one among the Quraysh tribe that ruled Mecca, so he decided to get everyone to grasp a cloth which he set the stone upon together and place the stone in as a team. He made all the rivals have an equal part in restoring the stone, and this idea was greatly praised all throughout Mecca. From this time on, Kutam was called Muhammad, which means ‘The Praised One’.
Muhammad became restless not long after his adventure with the holy stone, and he retired to Mesopotamia, the ‘Land Between the Rivers’. Here, he met many people of different religions, and was impressed by the similarity of the Judaic and Christian beliefs; the idea of one God who controlled the universe interested him. He had time to contemplate these ideas during the month of Ramadan, the ninth month, when he and his tribe, the Quraysh would withdraw into the mountains and meditate on religion. The first ten years of Muhammad’s preaching were difficult, marked by Meccan resistance and rejection. While there was a trickle of converts, opposition to Muhammad was formidable. For the powerful and prosperous Meccan oligarchy, the monotheistic message of this would-be reformer, with its condemnation of the socioeconomic inequities of Meccan life, constituted a direct challenge not only to traditional polytheistic life and religion but also to the power and prestige of the establishment, threatening their economic, social, and political interests. In a way, Muhammad was a threat to the state. He denounced false contracts, usury, and the neglect and exploitation of orphans and widows. He defended the rights of the poor and the oppressed, asserting that the rich had an obligation to the poor and dispossessed. This sense of social commitment and responsibility was institutionalized in the form of religious tithes or taxes on wealth and agricultural lands. Like Amos and Jeremiah before him, Muhammad was a ‘warner’ from God who admonished his hearers to repent and obey God, for the final judgment was near.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 14, 2002, 1:48 am

So Falwell calls mohammad a terrorist and that Islam is a violent religion, and Islamists react by starting a riot, killing hindus and burning down their businesses. Religious extremism is bad no matter what religion you belong to.

Iran declared a fatwah on Falwell though, so it's all good.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » October 14, 2002, 8:56 am

In the words of a great man,

"Why do people fight religious wars? You're killing yourselves over who has the best imaginary friend!"

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 9:35 am

My personal gripe in the matter is how everyone focuses on Jerry instead of the murdering rioters.

What a screwed up perspective.

Aarinu · Post by **Aarinu** » October 14, 2002, 10:30 am

You know, I find it rather funny that they call the Islamic religion "terrorista and Violent." And the only come back is to kill them..... Isn't this a rather ironic situation????

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » October 14, 2002, 11:05 am

Jesus preached to love thy neighbour, not obliterate and destroy him. Tell us again how Falwell, Robertson and Graham Jr aren't corrupting thier religion any more than more than muslim freaks who want a jihad against the West.

Christianity evolved from Judaism and Islam evolved from Christianity. The basic moral values of the religions are similar at the core. But "leaders" insist in twisting these to suit their own little xenophobic fantasies. As hypocritical as the Roman Catholic church has been in the past, I must say I have more respect for their current message of peace, love, forgiveness and tolerance (with respect to other religions/races/etc.)than that of a lot of others.

"Why do people fight religious wars? You're killing yourselves over who has the best imaginary friend!"

Thanks Cotto, I enjoyed that

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 14, 2002, 1:05 pm

Falwell apologizes.
read it here:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/14/ ... index.html

I've been avoiding this thread...because I think he's an ignorant ass.

but that's just my opinion

edit: Hi Wulf : )

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 14, 2002, 1:13 pm

When these inept clowns actually are able to track down Salmon Rushdie, then I would worry about them doing something to one of the preachers. Islam seems to breed more zealots than every other religion combined. Even the Satanic churches don't walk around murdering anyone that does not belong to their church.

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » October 14, 2002, 1:15 pm

But christians used to!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 14, 2002, 1:26 pm

Falwell apologizes? I think it's a little too late for that once you have a fatwah on your ass.

One "cannot insult the prophet then apologize," Jaaed said.

When these inept clowns actually are able to track down Salmon Rushdie, then I would worry about them doing something to one of the preachers.

The difference being Rushdie lived in seclusion. It's kinda hard not to know where public ministers are going to be at any given day.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 14, 2002, 1:30 pm

Religious extremism is bad no matter what religion you belong to.

/agree

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2002, 1:31 pm

Let's not confuse the issue.

Jerry Falwell is a moron. This latest comment has no bearing on that fact.

If you are just coming to the conclusion in 2002 that Jerry Falwell is a moron you need mental help.

If in 2002 you think that Jerry Faalwell is anything but a fucking moron, please:

1. proceed to the nearest mirror
2. check forehead for labotomy scars.

i think it is a sad indictment on the religious right in the US that people like Falwell, Robertson, and Buchanen still have any political relevance. Frankly it is one of the more embarrassing aspects of our society.

Post by **Xouqoa** » October 14, 2002, 1:32 pm

Yep, ignorance on all sides of the table pretty much describes the entire situation.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2002, 2:07 pm

I wouldn't worry about Falwell. He'll eventually get what he deserves in this life or in the next.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 3:16 pm

There's a side element to this story that you guys are missing.

I'm trying to think of a concise way of conveying it since no one likes mass verbage.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 3:32 pm

Here goes,

Christainity at its core states that there's a God and you are under his authority.

People who reject religion hate this perspective. People at their core want to live their own lives and be under no one's authority.

When a famous christain such as Falwell makes a mistake in public, those that reject christainity lash out and criticise with added zeal.

It is as if they are choosing this moment to vent bottled up hate.

This misplaced hate, blurs the issue.
This misplaced hate, turns the issue into an exercise in selfish expression rather than a response of outrage at the murder of bystanders.

Hey if you don't like christainity fine. Attack it as a separate issue.

It's an injustice to glaze over acts of multiple murder just so you can bash people who don't share your religion of self worship.

There =) a nice concise one-liner, for you non verbage types.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2002, 3:33 pm

the fact that Louis Farrakhan is also a moron, Al Sharpton as well, are both independent of the fact that Jerry Falwall is a moron.

how the press reacts to the 3 differently is also independent of the fact that the 3 individuals are fucking pieces of shit.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 3:42 pm

But do you understand what I'm trying say here?

About separation of issues?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 14, 2002, 3:51 pm

adex, i feel pretty confident in saying that christians, and non christians in this country both feel that a riot in which 5 people died is sad.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2002, 4:14 pm

racial (which = religious) tensions in India have been extremely high for a long time and probably as high as anytime in history over the last year or two.

so a riot there, that may seem to evolve straight out of Falwell's comments really does not.

so in terms of seperation of issues i think it is safe to say, at most Falwell's comments were the match into the gigantic storage thing-a-ma-jig of jet fuel.

the racially tense climate in india is the source of this riot, not Jerry Fallwell.

so yes, i agree the issues are completely seperate if that is what you are saying.

regardless of how you want to spin it, he made an extremely ignorant remark, and is trying to save face at this time.

Searyx · Post by **Searyx** » October 14, 2002, 4:15 pm

Would anybody here cry a river if Iran managed to drop those three dirt bags?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 4:26 pm

I'm not trying to spin dipty shit.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 14, 2002, 5:53 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:When these inept clowns actually are able to track down Salmon Rushdie,

I enjoy my salmon rushdie with a nice white zinfandel.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2002, 5:58 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:When these inept clowns actually are able to track down Salmon Rushdie,
I enjoy my salmon rushdie with a nice white zinfandel.

is that more like a curry or is it grilled like a Kabab?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 14, 2002, 6:02 pm

grilled

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2002, 6:03 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:When these inept clowns actually are able to track down Salmon Rushdie,
I enjoy my salmon rushdie with a nice white zinfandel.

There's a really nice Chardonnay I like with Salmon. I think it's the 2000 Meridian Santa Barbara.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 14, 2002, 6:07 pm

the dill used in a proper salmon rushdie steers me away from california wines and over to the less sweet vintages of the european vinyards.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 14, 2002, 6:08 pm

Sake Bombs with my Sake!!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 14, 2002, 6:13 pm

I am with you Adex.....but don't let anyone know that I am agreeing with you.

Salmon Rushdie would go so much better with a good home brewed red beer. Even Killians would be good. Much better than fru fru wine.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 14, 2002, 9:15 pm

Nice to see that the religious artwork is being updated to reflect current events:

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 9:49 pm

Imagine a similar picture with a young boy giving head to a man minus any religious references.

Now consider Winnow's image.

Why is one repugnant and the other funny?

Non christians hold christians to a higher standard.

Otherwise it wouldn't be funny.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 14, 2002, 10:42 pm

If i said to you, 'Jesus himself was a terrorist, had sex with children and was a plain evil man. This is why his followers are so violent and all their preists are child molestors.', you would be ok with that?

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 14, 2002, 10:52 pm

Oh and btw i wouldnt care nearly as much if it wasnt the same person who blamed the 6,000 deaths of 9/11 on gays, abortionists and athiests. Hes a fucking hate monger like any other religous extremist and if he died of a heart attack tomorrow id jump in joy. ok? thats my thoughts thx

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 10:59 pm

What if you said to me,

'Jesus himself was a terrorist, had sex with children and was a plain evil man. This is why his followers are so violent and all their preists are child molestors.'

and I got mad and went out and killed a couple of people.

What if people who didn't like you started reaming and ranting at you for saying what you said instead of focusing on my act of murder.

Would you be ok with that?

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » October 14, 2002, 11:01 pm

Back to the real topic in this thread, I believe a salmon rushdie would go excellent with a Chardonnay. Perhaps a great pinot grigio depending on what mood im in.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 14, 2002, 11:08 pm

I'm no Falwell fan, but he's getting way too much hate his direction.

I mean here's a guy who belives that God pulls the strings in this world. He has this idea that America is some how less moral that it used to be, and ponders on a TV show that God might not be protecting America as much anymore because of this lessened morality.

That's what he says, and what happens? The media and people with a sore spot for christians go apeshit and start claiming that Falwell's a monster on par with Osama.

Who's shoveling the most bullshit here? A guy stating his odd opinion or the legions of christian bashers?

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 14, 2002, 11:18 pm

Its more than 'an odd opinion' when thousands of people worship the guy(falwell) and many of them take every word he speaks seriously. hes a religious leader, not just some guy saying what he thinks.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » October 14, 2002, 11:27 pm

Also im not forgetting about all the islamic terrorists and killings going about. Its horrible and those people should be punished, but we have a domestic problem we should also look at which is ignorant fuckers like falwell(graham, pat robertson, etc) speaking out making the religious tensions even stronger. Most people know what he says doesnt reflect all americans views, but islamic media/gov are going to show it to their people(and likely with a twist) and use it as more of a reason to hate us.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » October 14, 2002, 11:41 pm

BAHAHAHAHA!

Pictures speak 1000 words. It's almost too damn easy to make fun of the Roman Catholic clergy these days.

As pathetic a religious institution it is (read: 1000's of articles detailing how they choose to shuffle their pedophiles around the country and sweep as much as possible under the carpet rather than punish them), there are also a ton of pathetic motherfuckers (sexual predator wise) within Islam who go scott free.

Details? Sure. I've had the pleasure of meeting a very friendly, interesting couple a few months ago. They are both trauma nurses that have been everwhere from Alaska, mainland China, most countries in Europe and Africa, and last but certainly not least, Saudi Arabia. Guess which country they considered the most despicable in the entire lot? Yep.

Mr. and Mrs. Harper described how disheartening it was to have to treat at least 2-3 cases a day where some poor boy got gangraped (OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of them by fucking relatives). How does this happen so often and almost never go punished? There's a really sick double standard.

When a male and female are together, they either have to be:
1. Husband and wife
2. Relatives
3. Closely monitored with a chaperone
4. (might have missed a few, fill in as necessary)

Point being, you are under the microscope if you are a dude in the company of a woman. Anything funky goes on, you risk having being castrated, executed, or having your older sister ordered to be gangraped by the local court (read: 2+ month old news in Pakistan). There is no such scrutiny when it's a couple of guys. No such punishment either. So most unmarried men find it rather easy to go defile some poor little kid's bunghole.

When Mr. and Mrs. Harper took it upon themselves to goto the local authorities on behalf on their patients, the response they got was, "What do you expect us to do about it?"

Well duh.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » October 15, 2002, 1:46 am

Kev if I read you correctly you said Falwell was irresponsible for speaking as he did because he's a public figure.

I agree that he should be careful with his words.

I also say the christian bashers and media sensationalists who distort Falwell's original words are equally responsible for any harm caused.

Falwell alone wouldn't of gotten the world's attention.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 15, 2002, 2:59 am

so his words were distorted by the media now?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 15, 2002, 3:16 am

Adex: In reference to your idea that that picture would be offensive if it did not involve Christians, I disagree.

In the wake of the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal, how many lewd sexual jokes and pictures popped up related to it?

I'm aware that the comparison is not perfect, because one deals with a group while another deals with an individual. My point is that jokes about sex, perversion, pedophilia, fecaphilia, or whatever are considered amusing only because they have grounds in real life.

For example, when I tell this joke:

Q: What's the difference between a dead baby and a brick?
A: You can't fuck a brick!

I expect it to be generally offensive. In fact, that's why I tell it, and that's where it derives it's humor. However, if I posted a picture like Winnow's above, I expect one of two reactions: Amusement or sadness. It's a sad social commentary, nothing else.

Whenever any major scandal breaks, people make jokes about it. People make jokes about 9/11, about the sniper, and about R Kelly molesting little girls.

Considering what I've written and thought about while writing, I will say this: A fine line does exist between an ignorant, offensive jokes, and a lighthearted joke put forth in the interest of humor and commentary. For example, I see how some people would be offended by this:

Q: What's the difference between acne and a priest?
A: Acne doesn't come on a boys face until he's 13!

I suppose the line between offensive and not is somewhat arbitrary and based on personal opinion. I personally do not feel that Winnow's picture crossed that line.

Thoughts?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 15, 2002, 9:18 am

adex, this is not the first time falwell has publicly made a 'questionable' or controversial remark...

And I know plenty of christians who think he hurts christians more than he helps.

The media didn't twist his words either. All stories I read quoted him directly.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 15, 2002, 9:44 am

Pie > Cake

Wine > Beer

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 15, 2002, 9:56 am

Jerry Falwell doesnt even speak for a mid sized minority of Christians.

to suggest that those who think he is a moron are "christian bashers" is an insult to the vast majority of Christians who think this guy is a moron. And they are right.

i would hazard to guess that his most vocal critics are in fact christians, because it is jerkoffs like Falwell who give them a bad name.

hey but check him out for yourself

http://www.falwell.com

you can win a free jeep liberty?
convenient links to make a donation or to even purchase some items!

yes Christianity at its best. Kind of brings to mind some guy named Jesus tipping over tables in the temple in Jeruselem. What a friggin troublemaker that guy was....