Kerry's Voting Record (part 1)

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Key Vote

Use of Force Authorization-Passage



Bill Number: SJRES 23
Issue: National Security Issues
Date: 09/14/2001
Sponsor: Joint resolution sponsored by Daschle, D-SD


Roll Call Number: 0281
Joint resolution passed
Full Member List


Senator John Forbes Kerry voted YES.

Vote to pass a joint resolution that would authorize the president to use all necessary and appropriate force against parties responsible in any way for the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States.

SJRES 23 Authorization for Use of Military Force

Vote to pass a joint resolution that would authorize the president to use all necessary and appropriate force against the nations, organizations, or people that he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,

or that harbored such organizations or people, to prevent future acts of terrorism against the United States.

(Joint resolution sponsored by Daschle, D-SD)
Joint resolution passed 98-0: R 47-0; D 50-0; I 1-0 on 09/14/2001.

Bill Number: SJ Res 23-107th Congress (2001-2002)
Senate Passage Vote: 09/14/2001-Outcome:Passed
House Passage Vote: 09/14/2001-Outcome:Passed
Presidential Action: Signed on 09/18/2001

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Technically one could say Iraq did harbor terrorist organizations. We have seen them and their kind cutting people's heads off.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Really loving VoteSmart right now.

Senator John Forbes Kerry (MA)


Current Office: U.S. Senator
Current District: Junior Seat
Office Seeking: President
First Elected: 11/06/1984
Last Elected: 11/05/2002
Next Election: 2008
Party: Democrat
Biographical
Issue Positions(NPAT)
Campaign Finances
Interest Group Ratings
Voting Record
Additional Biographical Information
Speeches and Public Statements
Endorsements
Fun Facts
Campaign Schedule





SENATOR JOHN FORBES KERRY REFUSED TO PROVIDE ANY
RESPONSES TO CITIZENS ON ISSUES THROUGH THE
NATIONAL POLITICAL AWARENESS TEST


SENATOR JOHN FORBES KERRY REFUSED TO PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION WHEN ASKED TO DO SO ON 23 SEPARATE OCCASIONS BY:

MSNBC
CBS News
Cox Newspapers
Knight Ridder
National Journal
MTV
New Hampshire Public Broadcasting
Tucson Citizen
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Portsmouth Herald
Nashua Telegraph
Iowa Public Radio
Ames Daily Tribune
Cedar Rapids Gazette
Iowa City Press
The State (SC)
WYY Philadelphia
San Jose Mercury News
Geraldine Ferraro, Former Democratic Congresswoman
Michael Dukakis, Fomer Democratic Congressman
Bill Frenzel, Former Republican Congressman
Jim Leach, Republican Congressman
Richard Kimball, Project Vote Smart President



Urge Senator John Forbes Kerry to fill out the NPAT

[Kaldaur]

Actually, those terrorist organizations moved into Iraq to attack our soldiers once Americans arrived there. Also, many of those organizations are Iraqi resistance groups fighting against the coalition. Iraq has no connection to Al-Queda. That was Afghanistan. We went there already.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Actually, those terrorist organizations moved into Iraq to attack our soldiers once Americans arrived there. Also, many of those organizations are Iraqi resistance groups fighting against the coalition. Iraq has no connection to Al-Queda. That was Afghanistan. We went there already.

You know they "all" moved there how? Who said anything about Al-Qaeda? You actually have to look past your preformed opinion and just read.

[Aslanna]

Technically one could say Iraq did harbor terrorist organizations. We have seen them and their kind cutting people's heads off.

Wow. You really are a dunderhead.

Fuck Iraqis!

[Siji]

Wow. You really are a dunderhead.

And this is unknown to whom?

[Thess]

I know they moved to Iraq after - we left Iraq's borders open for them to flow in.

[Pherr the Dorf]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127

The Republican operatives might also have noticed Gen. Colin Powell, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at the same hearings, testifying about plans to cut Army divisions by one-third, Navy aircraft carriers by one-fifth, and active armed forces by half a million men and women, to say noting of "major reductions" in fighter wings and strategic bombers.

Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise. But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.

Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.

The claim about these votes was made in the Republican National Committee "Research Briefing" of Feb. 22. The report lists 13 weapons systems that Kerry voted to cut—the ones cited above, as well as Patriot air-defense missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and AH64 Apache helicopters, among others.

It is instructive, however, to look at the footnotes. Almost all of them cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.

On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.

In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty.

Another bit of dishonesty is RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie's claim, at a news conference today, that in 1995, Kerry voted to cut $1.5 billion from the intelligence budget. John Pike, who runs the invaluable globalsecurity.org Web site, told me what that cut was about: The Air Force's National Reconnaissance Office had appropriated that much money to operate a spy satellite that, as things turned out, it never launched. So the Senate passed an amendment rescinding the money—not to cancel a program, but to get a refund on a program that the NRO had canceled. Kerry voted for the amendment, as did a majority of his colleagues.

An examination of Kerry's real voting record during his 20 years in the Senate indicates that he did vote to restrict or cut certain weapons systems. From 1989-92, he supported amendments to halt production of the B-2 stealth bomber. (In 1992, George H.W. Bush halted it himself.) It is true that the B-2 came in handy during the recent war in Iraq—but for reasons having nothing to do with its original rationale.

The B-2 came into being as an airplane that would drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. The program was very controversial at the time. It was extremely expensive. Its stealth technology had serious technical bugs. More to the point, a grand debate was raging in defense circles at the time over whether, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles and long-range cruise missiles, the United States needed any new bomber that would fly into the Soviet Union's heavily defended airspace. The debate was not just between hawks and doves; advocates and critics could be found among both.

In the latest war, B-2s—modified to carry conventional munitions—were among the planes that dropped smart bombs on Iraq. But that was like hopping in the Lincoln stretch limo to drop Grandma off at church. As for the other stealth plane used in both Iraq wars—the F-117, which was designed for non-nuclear missions—there is no indication that Kerry ever opposed it.

The RNC doesn't mention it, but Kerry also supported amendments to limit (but not kill) funding for President Reagan's fanciful (and eventually much-altered) "Star Wars" missile-defense system. Kerry sponsored amendments to ban tests of anti-satellite weapons, as long as the Soviet Union also refrained from testing. In retrospect, trying to limit the vulnerability of satellites was a very good idea since many of our smart bombs are guided to their targets by signals from satellites.

Kerry also voted for amendments to restrict the deployment of the MX missile (Reagan changed its deployment plan several times, and Bush finally stopped the program altogether) and to ban the production of nerve-gas weapons.

At the same time, in 1991, Kerry opposed an amendment to impose an arbitrary 2 percent cut in the military budget. In 1992, he opposed an amendment to cut Pentagon intelligence programs by $1 billion. In 1994, he voted against a motion to cut $30.5 billion from the defense budget over the next five years and to redistribute the money to programs for education and the disabled. That same year, he opposed an amendment to postpone construction of a new aircraft carrier. In 1996, he opposed a motion to cut six F-18 jet fighters from the budget. In 1999, he voted against a motion to terminate the Trident II missile. (Interestingly, the F-18 and Trident II are among the weapons systems that the RNC claims Kerry opposed.)

Are there votes in Kerry's 20-year record as a senator that might look embarrassing in retrospect? Probably. But these are not the ones.

I posted this months ago, this is why even McCain says while they didn't always agree, his record on military voting should not be an issue worth raising

[Mak]

Interesting info, Pherr. I'll have to look into it more.

[Voronwë]

In addition to all those terrorists being in Iraq , they had totally reconstituted their military.

i turned on the TV today and saw all these M-1 tanks driving through Baghdad and a bunch of Apache helicopters. I mean the Iraqi army looks like it is the toughest army on the planet they way they are hunkered down Baghdad !

[*~*stragi*~*]

I wrote a song!
Its called "Bush Supporters are Gay"

It goes like this:


stfu fags.

[Keverian FireCry]

"Flip-flopping" for the most part shows me that person is a thinking person, someone who learns from experiences and mistakes and is willing to change his vote to reflect different times and different needs. Kerry's Vietnam record shows that the man "flip-flops" for the most genuine reasons, not for polls. He went to Vietnam because at that time he believed his country was doing the right thing and he felt the need to help his country.

He went to war and while over there he saw what was really going on. He realized the anti-communist propoganda that the government was using was absoultely bullshit. What would you rather have him do? Continue on fighting a war that he knew in his heart and mind to be absoultely uneccesary, or do whatever he can, including throwing away medals that he nearly died to achieve? He flip-flopped here because he learned the TRUTH about the war, he flip-flopped here because it was the RIGHT thing to do. Now you tell me, does flip-flopping show weakness in character or is posslbe that it shows strength and wisdom in one's character?

Flip-flopping shows open-mindedness, it shows the willingness to always learn more and to have the strength to change. This is unlike our closeminded leaders that have stood staunch and unwavering in their far-right political views that they've ostricized our country from the rest of the world and given terrorists reason to fight us for decades to come.

I welcome flip-flop Kerry as we NEED a leader who is open to change.

[Avestan]

There is more spin in this article than I have seen in a long time. He did this, BUT. He supported this, BUT. The fact of the matter is that he has not been a supporter of military spending. Some would say that is a good thing, I would say it is not.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127

The Republican operatives might also have noticed Gen. Colin Powell, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at the same hearings, testifying about plans to cut Army divisions by one-third, Navy aircraft carriers by one-fifth, and active armed forces by half a million men and women, to say noting of "major reductions" in fighter wings and strategic bombers.

Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise. But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.

Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.

The claim about these votes was made in the Republican National Committee "Research Briefing" of Feb. 22. The report lists 13 weapons systems that Kerry voted to cut—the ones cited above, as well as Patriot air-defense missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and AH64 Apache helicopters, among others.

It is instructive, however, to look at the footnotes. Almost all of them cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.

On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.

In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty.

Another bit of dishonesty is RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie's claim, at a news conference today, that in 1995, Kerry voted to cut $1.5 billion from the intelligence budget. John Pike, who runs the invaluable globalsecurity.org Web site, told me what that cut was about: The Air Force's National Reconnaissance Office had appropriated that much money to operate a spy satellite that, as things turned out, it never launched. So the Senate passed an amendment rescinding the money—not to cancel a program, but to get a refund on a program that the NRO had canceled. Kerry voted for the amendment, as did a majority of his colleagues.

An examination of Kerry's real voting record during his 20 years in the Senate indicates that he did vote to restrict or cut certain weapons systems. From 1989-92, he supported amendments to halt production of the B-2 stealth bomber. (In 1992, George H.W. Bush halted it himself.) It is true that the B-2 came in handy during the recent war in Iraq—but for reasons having nothing to do with its original rationale.

The B-2 came into being as an airplane that would drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. The program was very controversial at the time. It was extremely expensive. Its stealth technology had serious technical bugs. More to the point, a grand debate was raging in defense circles at the time over whether, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles and long-range cruise missiles, the United States needed any new bomber that would fly into the Soviet Union's heavily defended airspace. The debate was not just between hawks and doves; advocates and critics could be found among both.

In the latest war, B-2s—modified to carry conventional munitions—were among the planes that dropped smart bombs on Iraq. But that was like hopping in the Lincoln stretch limo to drop Grandma off at church. As for the other stealth plane used in both Iraq wars—the F-117, which was designed for non-nuclear missions—there is no indication that Kerry ever opposed it.

The RNC doesn't mention it, but Kerry also supported amendments to limit (but not kill) funding for President Reagan's fanciful (and eventually much-altered) "Star Wars" missile-defense system. Kerry sponsored amendments to ban tests of anti-satellite weapons, as long as the Soviet Union also refrained from testing. In retrospect, trying to limit the vulnerability of satellites was a very good idea since many of our smart bombs are guided to their targets by signals from satellites.

Kerry also voted for amendments to restrict the deployment of the MX missile (Reagan changed its deployment plan several times, and Bush finally stopped the program altogether) and to ban the production of nerve-gas weapons.

At the same time, in 1991, Kerry opposed an amendment to impose an arbitrary 2 percent cut in the military budget. In 1992, he opposed an amendment to cut Pentagon intelligence programs by $1 billion. In 1994, he voted against a motion to cut $30.5 billion from the defense budget over the next five years and to redistribute the money to programs for education and the disabled. That same year, he opposed an amendment to postpone construction of a new aircraft carrier. In 1996, he opposed a motion to cut six F-18 jet fighters from the budget. In 1999, he voted against a motion to terminate the Trident II missile. (Interestingly, the F-18 and Trident II are among the weapons systems that the RNC claims Kerry opposed.)

Are there votes in Kerry's 20-year record as a senator that might look embarrassing in retrospect? Probably. But these are not the ones.

I posted this months ago, this is why even McCain says while they didn't always agree, his record on military voting should not be an issue worth raising

[Zaelath]

There is more spin in this article than I have seen in a long time. He did this, BUT. He supported this, BUT. The fact of the matter is that he has not been a supporter of military spending. Some would say that is a good thing, I would say it is not.

Which makes you just the kind of voter that politicians love to have on their side. You read the headlines that reinforce your world view and no amount of analysis will sway your initial view. Much like your overlord.

You probably still think the Patriot Act was patriotic (it clearly says so in the title, duh). You also probably have no problem with politicians attaching unrelated riders to legislation to help passage of bills that would never get by on their own.

[Pherr the Dorf]

There is more spin in this article than I have seen in a long time. He did this, BUT. He supported this, BUT. The fact of the matter is that he has not been a supporter of military spending. Some would say that is a good thing, I would say it is not.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127

The Republican operatives might also have noticed Gen. Colin Powell, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at the same hearings, testifying about plans to cut Army divisions by one-third, Navy aircraft carriers by one-fifth, and active armed forces by half a million men and women, to say noting of "major reductions" in fighter wings and strategic bombers.

Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise. But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.

Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.

The claim about these votes was made in the Republican National Committee "Research Briefing" of Feb. 22. The report lists 13 weapons systems that Kerry voted to cut—the ones cited above, as well as Patriot air-defense missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and AH64 Apache helicopters, among others.

It is instructive, however, to look at the footnotes. Almost all of them cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.

On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.

In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty.

Another bit of dishonesty is RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie's claim, at a news conference today, that in 1995, Kerry voted to cut $1.5 billion from the intelligence budget. John Pike, who runs the invaluable globalsecurity.org Web site, told me what that cut was about: The Air Force's National Reconnaissance Office had appropriated that much money to operate a spy satellite that, as things turned out, it never launched. So the Senate passed an amendment rescinding the money—not to cancel a program, but to get a refund on a program that the NRO had canceled. Kerry voted for the amendment, as did a majority of his colleagues.

An examination of Kerry's real voting record during his 20 years in the Senate indicates that he did vote to restrict or cut certain weapons systems. From 1989-92, he supported amendments to halt production of the B-2 stealth bomber. (In 1992, George H.W. Bush halted it himself.) It is true that the B-2 came in handy during the recent war in Iraq—but for reasons having nothing to do with its original rationale.

The B-2 came into being as an airplane that would drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. The program was very controversial at the time. It was extremely expensive. Its stealth technology had serious technical bugs. More to the point, a grand debate was raging in defense circles at the time over whether, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles and long-range cruise missiles, the United States needed any new bomber that would fly into the Soviet Union's heavily defended airspace. The debate was not just between hawks and doves; advocates and critics could be found among both.

In the latest war, B-2s—modified to carry conventional munitions—were among the planes that dropped smart bombs on Iraq. But that was like hopping in the Lincoln stretch limo to drop Grandma off at church. As for the other stealth plane used in both Iraq wars—the F-117, which was designed for non-nuclear missions—there is no indication that Kerry ever opposed it.

The RNC doesn't mention it, but Kerry also supported amendments to limit (but not kill) funding for President Reagan's fanciful (and eventually much-altered) "Star Wars" missile-defense system. Kerry sponsored amendments to ban tests of anti-satellite weapons, as long as the Soviet Union also refrained from testing. In retrospect, trying to limit the vulnerability of satellites was a very good idea since many of our smart bombs are guided to their targets by signals from satellites.

Kerry also voted for amendments to restrict the deployment of the MX missile (Reagan changed its deployment plan several times, and Bush finally stopped the program altogether) and to ban the production of nerve-gas weapons.

At the same time, in 1991, Kerry opposed an amendment to impose an arbitrary 2 percent cut in the military budget. In 1992, he opposed an amendment to cut Pentagon intelligence programs by $1 billion. In 1994, he voted against a motion to cut $30.5 billion from the defense budget over the next five years and to redistribute the money to programs for education and the disabled. That same year, he opposed an amendment to postpone construction of a new aircraft carrier. In 1996, he opposed a motion to cut six F-18 jet fighters from the budget. In 1999, he voted against a motion to terminate the Trident II missile. (Interestingly, the F-18 and Trident II are among the weapons systems that the RNC claims Kerry opposed.)

Are there votes in Kerry's 20-year record as a senator that might look embarrassing in retrospect? Probably. But these are not the ones.

I posted this months ago, this is why even McCain says while they didn't always agree, his record on military voting should not be an issue worth raising

Actually it shows his voting record, including his votes for and against spending, F-18's, trident missiles, aircraft carriers, these are not the things someone who votes against military spending would have voted for. Voting against military paycuts are not something someone who didn't support the military would do. I have yet to see a specific thing he voted against that wasn't riddled with pork, and wasn't also opposed by multiple Republicans.

[Xzion]

"Flip-flopping" for the most part shows me that person is a thinking person, someone who learns from experiences and mistakes and is willing to change his vote to reflect different times and different needs. Kerry's Vietnam record shows that the man "flip-flops" for the most genuine reasons, not for polls. He went to Vietnam because at that time he believed his country was doing the right thing and he felt the need to help his country.

He went to war and while over there he saw what was really going on. He realized the anti-communist propoganda that the government was using was absoultely bullshit. What would you rather have him do? Continue on fighting a war that he knew in his heart and mind to be absoultely uneccesary, or do whatever he can, including throwing away medals that he nearly died to achieve? He flip-flopped here because he learned the TRUTH about the war, he flip-flopped here because it was the RIGHT thing to do. Now you tell me, does flip-flopping show weakness in character or is posslbe that it shows strength and wisdom in one's character?

Flip-flopping shows open-mindedness, it shows the willingness to always learn more and to have the strength to change. This is unlike our closeminded leaders that have stood staunch and unwavering in their far-right political views that they've ostricized our country from the rest of the world and given terrorists reason to fight us for decades to come.

I welcome flip-flop Kerry as we NEED a leader who is open to change.

exactlly how i feel, this is actually one of the main reasons why i actually like John Kerry, as someone who will be a good leader, and not just someone "better then Bush"

[Winnow]

"Flip-flopping" for the most part shows me that person is a thinking person, someone who learns from experiences and mistakes and is willing to change his vote to reflect different times and different needs. Kerry's Vietnam record shows that the man "flip-flops" for the most genuine reasons, not for polls. He went to Vietnam because at that time he believed his country was doing the right thing and he felt the need to help his country.

He went to war and while over there he saw what was really going on. He realized the anti-communist propoganda that the government was using was absoultely bullshit. What would you rather have him do? Continue on fighting a war that he knew in his heart and mind to be absoultely uneccesary, or do whatever he can, including throwing away medals that he nearly died to achieve? He flip-flopped here because he learned the TRUTH about the war, he flip-flopped here because it was the RIGHT thing to do. Now you tell me, does flip-flopping show weakness in character or is posslbe that it shows strength and wisdom in one's character?

Flip-flopping shows open-mindedness, it shows the willingness to always learn more and to have the strength to change. This is unlike our closeminded leaders that have stood staunch and unwavering in their far-right political views that they've ostricized our country from the rest of the world and given terrorists reason to fight us for decades to come.

I welcome flip-flop Kerry as we NEED a leader who is open to change.

exactlly how i feel, this is actually one of the main reasons why i actually like John Kerry, as someone who will be a good leader, and not just someone "better then Bush"

I guess you just hope he doesn't flop when you were wanting a flip.
--> Insert ---> Well he can't be any worse than Bush!

[Markulas]

Reminds me of an editorial today saying how he would choose Kerry over Bush even if he is a flip flopper, because at least he agrees with his views 50% of the time.

Is backing out of a nuclear ban treaty while you are stressing nuclear safety on your campaign flip flopping?[/code][/b]

[Metanis]

Pherr, you can paint this however you wish but Kerry's voting record truly reflects his principles (or lack thereof).

Or let's put it another way, his flip-flopping indicates he is a moron who gets it wrong too much of the time.

Just look at his vote against funding the troops that were already in Iraq.

Kerry is largely a political opportunist and is not impressive as a leader.

He may actually be a good senator considering the political slant of the state which he represents, but I don't think he has the guts or the vision or the strength of conviction with which to lead the country.

[Niffoni]

I will never understand anyone who honestly thinks that 'flip-flopping' (or as the rest of us like to call it, the aquisition and implimentation of new or better information in an ever-changing world) is a failing in a leader. Kerry is enough of a douchebag that detractors should be able to find something better to ream him about. But trying to label him a flip-flopper is just seriously weak.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who maintains their beliefs and never changes course no matter what may happen, and what they might learn is about two steps removed from the kind of fanaticism that makes people fly planes into buildings. The belief that leaders already know everying that they'll need to is a fantasy, and a dangerous one.

[Kelshara]

Pherr, you can paint this however you wish but Kerry's voting record truly reflects his principles (or lack thereof).

Erh what Pherr said about reading the whole bill they voted for each time is a MUST. So much extra crap is hidden in each bill so you can't just look at this and say "Voted NO to troops!" That is ridiculous.

"This bill will give the soldiers in Iraq $500 million dollars and also will provide free whores for all Republican senators and their needs"

Vote yes damnit! It is military!

[Pherr the Dorf]

Pherr, you can paint this however you wish but Kerry's voting record truly reflects his principles (or lack thereof).

Or let's put it another way, his flip-flopping indicates he is a moron who gets it wrong too much of the time.

Just look at his vote against funding the troops that were already in Iraq.

Kerry is largely a political opportunist and is not impressive as a leader.

He may actually be a good senator considering the political slant of the state which he represents, but I don't think he has the guts or the vision or the strength of conviction with which to lead the country.

Met show me the votes you are speaking of, I keep hearing about these votes, but noone can show me a bill he voted against that wasn't so pork riddled there were Republicans that agreed with him and voted against it as well. I just want facts.

[Splatter]

Here is one I found that included counts of Rep/Dem

http://www.usorthem.org/current-events/ ... ecord.html

[Pherr the Dorf]

Here is one I found that included counts of Rep/Dem

http://www.usorthem.org/current-events/ ... ecord.html

Against Stopping Missile Defense Spending Cuts: Kerry voted against a motion to kill an amendment that proposed deeper cuts in SDI spending. (S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92) Hrmm pro-military

For Defense Spending Reductions: Kerry voted to transfer $3.1 billion to domestic programs from Defense department accounts. (H.R. 2707, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 28-69: R 3-39; D 25-30, 9/10/91) There were 7 versions of this bill, including 4 that had

Require federally-funded clinics to obtain parental consent for a minor's abortion.

no surprise a pro-abortion politicain voted no

From that one on, it seems then can find no "Key Votes" that were anti-military, after the fall of the USSR everyone was voting for less military, it was part of the times. Looking thru there I find things like S.1745 which was a "Vote to kill an amendment to repeal the ban on abortions at overseas military hospitals." That sure is anti-military eh?

[Voronwë]

it is really shameful that members of both parties attach these bullshit modifications to bills, especially those about military funding.

the persons we should be vilifying in the press are the people who try to fuck with the supplying of our troops by inserting other political agendas - that are TOTALLY unrelated - into the vital function of equipping them.

of course what is lost in all of this stuff about the $87 million dollar vote is that our troops were sent INTO BATTLE without enough body armor. It is crazy how the Republicans have managed to spin the political opinion on this to somehow it is Congress' fault that a month AFTER the invasion it is their responsibility to have the troops properly equipped.

[Karae]

Midnyte's voting record:

Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush - anyone else see a pattern? I think he just can't remember a name longer than four letters.

[Funkmasterr]

I am not saying that I am for bush because im not. But the problem with the flip flopping is this; I see it as a voting ploy on his end, he has thought one way for a long period of time in certain areas, then he all of the sudden changes to what he thinks will get him more votes. I have all the respect in the world to someone with an open mind, but I think some people may be misunderstanding the reasons he is doing that for. I could be wrong too, just a thought.