Kerry's Band of Brothers

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 28, 2004, 2:11 pm

They have an interactive picture of them all in one shot.

http://www.swiftvets.com/

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 28, 2004, 2:40 pm

That picture editing would make a great commercial if it could be verified if I were running the Bush campaign and wanted to nullify Kerry's military heroics. Staged purple heart tossings, staged photos in Vietnam. Kerry is trying to play both sides of Vietnam like he does everything else. How can you vote for someone that you have no clue what he'll do? The term waffle fits him perfectly.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 28, 2004, 3:01 pm

regardless of how many Vietnam vets support John Kerry three or thirty three, the number is greater than the number of national guardsmen that the Republican convention can produce that actually saw George Bush report for duty in Alabama.

in other words: number of actual soldiers > zero

and more importantly the real issue is about choices people make. George Bush used his father's political connections to jump 100 places in line for an Air National Guard post that he did not take seriously - because it was a unit specifically for the elite who were using their financial and political means to avoid their military obligation.

John Kerry made a different choice, and if he wants to protest the Vietnam war after actually going over there and risking his life for it, and actually finding himself in combat zones, fine with me. If anybody can criticize the government's policies, for fucks sake it sure as hell is the troops who lay their fucking lives on the line as a result of the policies.

i think it is pretty cynical to suggest that it is un-American for a veteran of a war should not excercise his 1st amendment rights to express his opinion about that war. Beyond cynical, it is actually truly contemptuous for the sacrifices that have been made before us, now, and will be again in the future.

What truly speaks of a person's character when they are faced with adversity? They go out of their way to sacrifice for their country or they go out of their way to avoid personal hardship?

when looking for a leader, the choice is fairly clear as to what is a more desirable personality trait to me.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 28, 2004, 3:04 pm

I thought a stupid redneck like yourself would at least grudgingly respect the sacrifices kerry made to serve his country in vietnam. I guess just like everything else in your tiny little life, you can be selective about this too.

I would point out the irony of you constantly deep throating a draft dodging alcoholic while at the same time disparaging a vietnam veteran with 3 purple hearts based solely on their political beliefs, but I fear it would bounce right off that skull of yours along with all other forms of logic and reason.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 3:12 pm

At first I looked at the site I thought hmmm Propaganda bullshit but when I see the Liberals running around protecting this baby killer I think the site is more relevent.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » July 28, 2004, 3:14 pm

Why do you always call Kerry a baby killer?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » July 28, 2004, 3:14 pm

Cartalas wrote:At first I looked at the site I thought hmmm Propaganda bullshit but when I see the Liberals running around protecting this baby killer I think the site is more relevent.

So Kerry is a baby killer, but you still would vote for a guy that made others kill for his benefit.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 3:17 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:Why do you always call Kerry a baby killer?

Because he killed women and children in Vietnam, I figured the liberals call Bush a baby killer because of Iraq Fair is fair.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 3:19 pm

Lynks wrote:
Cartalas wrote:At first I looked at the site I thought hmmm Propaganda bullshit but when I see the Liberals running around protecting this baby killer I think the site is more relevent.
So Kerry is a baby killer, but you still would vote for a guy that made others kill for his benefit.

What benefit did GW get from Iraq?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » July 28, 2004, 3:23 pm

You mean besides revenge? I dunno.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 28, 2004, 3:32 pm

kyoukan wrote:I thought a stupid redneck like yourself would at least grudgingly respect the sacrifices kerry made to serve his country in vietnam. I guess just like everything else in your tiny little life, you can be selective about this too.

I would point out the irony of you constantly deep throating a draft dodging alcoholic while at the same time disparaging a vietnam veteran with 3 purple hearts based solely on their political beliefs, but I fear it would bounce right off that skull of yours along with all other forms of logic and reason.

Listen ye of little clue. I said "if I was running Bush's campaign". I was not disrespecting Kerry's service. My comments were regarding a political campaign and both sides are far from focused on pointing out the positives of the other side.

The second part of my post also holds true. Kerry waffles and I wouldn't be sure what he would do once in office. I heard him interviewed on a local phoenix radio station and after the interview I couldn't tell what he was for or against. He played both sides.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 28, 2004, 3:43 pm

BOSTON - Former Navy officer John Kerry and his Vietnam-era swiftboat crewmates hailed a water taxi for a splashy entrance to this Democratic convention city Wednesday, with the presidential hopeful promising "No retreat, no surrender" in political combat against President Bush.

His boat wasn't swift.

The Lulu E — a white ferry decorated with red, white and blue bunting — lumbered across Boston's inner harbor, flanked by Coast Guard speed boats mounted with machine guns as it cruised past the FleetCenter convention site to the Charlestown Navy Yard.

Kerry snapped salutes and gave thumbs-up to a crowd of roaring supporters, as he stood shoulder-to-shoulder with his fellow crewmates at the ferry's rails. Bruce Springsteen's "No Surrender" blared from speakers as the ferry pulled into the dock.

"Bruce Springsteen has it right. No retreat. No surrender. We are taking this fight to the country, and we are going to win back our democracy and our future," Kerry said.

His running mate, John Edwards, headlined the third night of the convention with a speech that Kerry said would preview "a vision of how we're going to make this country stronger."

As his plane made its way to Boston, the Massachusetts senator told reporters, "Welcome home. Welcome to the Super Bowl." Pumping his fist, Kerry said he felt great. "Ready to go. Pumped!"

Minutes later, he bounded down the steps of his plane at Boston's Logan Airport, greeted by 13 veterans, some of whom had served with him aboard a naval swiftboat in Vietnam's Mekong Delta 35 years ago. The men hugged and slapped backs.

One of the greeters was Jim Rassmann, a Special Forces officer whose life Kerry saved a generation ago.

Wounded himself, Kerry plucked Rassmann from a river in Vietnam while under fire. Their emotional public reunion last winter set the stage for Kerry's upset victory in Iowa's caucuses two days later.

After swapping war stories with the old gang Wednesday, Kerry boarded the Lulu E and made the brief trip across the harbor, once a political symbol of its own. In 1988, then-Vice President George H.W. Bush visited to criticize the pollution — and the leadership of his presidential rival, Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis.

The Charlestown Navy Yard helped supply and maintain the nation's naval fleet from 1800 to 1974. It is now home to the USS Constitution, the oldest commissioned warship afloat in the world.

According to tradition, the ship, known as "Old Ironsides," earned its nickname by deflecting cannon balls off its hull during an 1812 battle with a British ship.

Kerry hopes to be as agile with Republican barbs, particularly the charge that he is not fit to be commander in chief. With every image and speech during the four-day convention, Kerry is trying to convince voters that he is a safe alternative to the wartime incumbent, President Bush.

A lineup of retired generals and admirals were to appear at the convention Wednesday night to promote Kerry's foreign policy credentials.

Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Clinton, was addressing delegates. He was to be introduced by retired Lt. Gen. Claudia Kennedy, the only woman ever to become a three-star general in the Army.

Ten of 12 retired generals and admirals who are publicly backing Kerry appear in a convention video, expressing their concern with the current state of the military.

Fred Short, a former crewmate, said he's honored to spread word of Kerry's wartime exploits.

"I want, I need, to get out and tell what he won't tell people, as to his unbelievable courage," Short said. "No one wants someone thumping his chest saying, 'I'm a hero.' And it will be a cold day in Hades when John Kerry does that."

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 28, 2004, 3:47 pm

The Bush Campain won't touch this topic with a 10 foot pole, mostly because the Kerry camp has basically quietly agreed not to measure dicks on this one (probably because they don't want a rehash of his protests) and they won't look a gift horse in the mouth. Bush can't win this argument and this kind of mutual nukage will hurt him more than Kerry, especially in the face of cutting Vet benefits rescently. Bush would get more out of poking fun of his botox injections.

That is not to say that this little battle won't be waged on righty and lefty lapdog websites over the next couple months, however.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 28, 2004, 3:55 pm

Ten of 12 retired generals and admirals who are publicly backing Kerry appear in a convention video, expressing their concern with the current state of the military.

Woo! That's a lot of generals out of what? 1000's?

I'm sure Bush could drum up 10 hippies that turned republican.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 28, 2004, 3:57 pm

Yes, because generals saying the military is great is great for shock value.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 28, 2004, 3:58 pm

yes i'm sure people like Gen. Shinseke (sp.) who Rumsfeld fired after he testified before Congress that we did not have enough troops in place in Iraq pre-invasion to secure the occupation (holy shit he was right!) will be voting for Bush.

but i'm also fairly sure most current generals or admirals won't be publically endorsing candidates. that would be pretty stupid from a professional standpoint

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 4:35 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:You mean besides revenge? I dunno.

How about getting rid of a evil dictator.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » July 28, 2004, 5:02 pm

Ohhh, that's how the war in Iraq started. To remove a dictator. Nothing to do with revenge, or oil, or making his friends richer, or a false WMD threat, or a false link to AQ.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » July 28, 2004, 5:39 pm

There arnt thousands of Generals. The Congress has to appoint Generals and admirals. The Generals that are backing Kerry are 3 Star+ Generals..

If I remember correctly ( I will be slightly off ) This goes for Navy, and Army.

1 Star General 120
2 Star General 60
3 Star General 25
4 Star General 12

So a total of 217 Generals for the Army out of 450,000. The Generals also have to have 20+ Years in the army already, and have been a General for at least a period of 3 years for each star if not longer for their next star.

Saying 10 Active Army General officers that are 3-4 stars, is a big thing.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 28, 2004, 5:46 pm

I don't know what to think of Kerry's service.

He milked the system to get as many medals as he could.

He carried around a video camera so that he could have war footage to help his future political aspirations.

He bragged to his crewmates that he was going to be the next JFK.

He fought, be it for some very distasteful reasons.

His transparent motivations at the time serve to sour many people's opinion of his service.

As far as Bush doing the national guard thing? That's rather sour as well.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 28, 2004, 5:48 pm

According to that website, Kerry lied about their activities in Vietnam. That's a pretty serious accusation, and were it not for Dubya's draft dodging, you can bet it would be an issue.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 28, 2004, 6:16 pm

Cart, please drop the 'babykiller' bullshit.

The Viet-Cong would often wire their kids up with explosives or hand them a gun and send them into a military installation or bar frequented by American military personnel and blow them up. While I'm sure there were some sick fucks that actually enjoyed the killing aspect of the war, a lot of times women and children were killed in the name of survival.

It's similar to the end of the movie Black Hawk Down when the soldier shoots the kid or woman (I can't remember which) that's pointing an AK-47 at him. When you're about to be shot, politics are the last thing on your mind.

Until you can give me the exact circumstances where Kerry shot a woman or child, I would really appreciate you not using that term ever again. I'm certainly willing to look at legitimate evidence that there was wrongdoing, but that accusation is wholly inappropriate.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 28, 2004, 7:10 pm

Adex, John Kerry may have been arrogant at age 23 (or whatever), and he may have had personal ambition. But by the same token, he still did 2 tours in Vietnam when he didn't have to.

So what if the guy wants to get some personal return out of his military service. Good for him, that makes him smart about investing his time. He still is *SERVING* the United States.

Anybody who is going to become president one day is going to be a very ambitious person, otherwise they have no chance of succeeding in politics. Whether that is good or bad, i think it is the reality of the situation.

Again contrast that to the choices that persons who used their elite social status to get out of their obligation to their country. I'm sure i would have been happy to get out of Vietnam myself. I don't think that makes Bush a bad person.

No matter how the Republicans want to leak smears about Kerry's military service and portray the manner in which he did it as self-serving there are irrefutable facts:

1. he volunteered for service in Vietnam when he didn't have to
2. he volunteered for dangerous duty
3. he performed his duty well
4. he was awarded medals by the Pentagon
5. he saved people's lives risking his own.

so what if he went to war to furhter his career. IF we got rid of all the people in the military ranks who hoped to improve their careers through their combat service, we'd have only the bottom of the barrel left.

Whether it is setting your sites on political office, learning skills to take to private industry, or moving up within the ranks of the military itself, talented people would be advised to find ways to use their experiences to their own advantage.

God knows the risk everything, so good for them if they can parlay it into something for their own personal benefit.

how absurd is it to ask combat veterans to not benefit from their tremendous sacrifice. That is the real nasty side of Republican rhetoric.
I'm not trying to say John Kerry is some iconic hero. But i think his Vietnam service is something he should be proud of.

If some kid is sitting on a tank with a digital camera today in Fallujah taking pictures of himself that one day he may use in a political campaign , or in his real estate office. I dont GIVE A SHIT.

as long as he is performing his job functions not endangering himself or his fellow soldiers, more power to him. I hope he sells every used car in Dothan, AL if that is what he does with his pictures of himself on that tank. GOod for him. he fucking deserves it.

Cause god knows our government isn't going to bend over backwards to help our soldiers, and that is the fault of Democrats and Republicans alike.

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » July 28, 2004, 7:15 pm

I think that was a fair post Vor. Anyone who serves the country should be given Kudos. Moreso if it was really exemplary service, but he did his tours, that is more than enough for me.

If they try to portray him as a war hero that may be different, but that kind of grandstanding has not really been done in full force. . .yet.

I think what some people object to is that kind of portrayal. Coining the group his "band of brothers" is probably going overboard given what I have read, but in the end, he did his time. . .4 months anyway.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 7:25 pm

noel wrote:Cart, please drop the 'babykiller' bullshit.

The Viet-Cong would often wire their kids up with explosives or hand them a gun and send them into a military installation or bar frequented by American military personnel and blow them up. While I'm sure there were some sick fucks that actually enjoyed the killing aspect of the war, a lot of times women and children were killed in the name of survival.

It's similar to the end of the movie Black Hawk Down when the soldier shoots the kid or woman (I can't remember which) that's pointing an AK-47 at him. When you're about to be shot, politics are the last thing on your mind.

Until you can give me the exact circumstances where Kerry shot a woman or child, I would really appreciate you not using that term ever again. I'm certainly willing to look at legitimate evidence that there was wrongdoing, but that accusation is wholly inappropriate.

Excuse me Ill use that term as long as your fnord buddys keep calling Bush a baby killer. So for now Tata Baby killer supporter.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 28, 2004, 7:28 pm

While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 7:30 pm

masteen wrote:While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

And one of those was questionable, The puke was trying to get out of Vietnam.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 28, 2004, 7:32 pm

He wasn't just taking snapshots as he went.

He would return to a previous day's location and reenact battles to get it on tape.

That's a little too much PT Barnum for my tastes.

My idea of a war veteran is the humble servant. Kerry just doesn't fit that mold.

I respect his participation, but the details of his participation leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 28, 2004, 7:32 pm

masteen wrote:While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

You get a purple heart for getting shot while serving your countries military institutions. That's the standard you were looking for.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 28, 2004, 7:32 pm

Cartalas wrote:Excuse me Ill use that tem as long as your fnord buddys keep calling Bush a baby killer. So for now Tata Baby killer supporter.

If you've been paying attention to any of my recent posts, I think you'd find that while I'm not a Kerry supporter, I'm not a Bush supporter at all.

Masteen: You can get a purple heart for stubbing your toe if you really want.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 28, 2004, 7:32 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:He wasn't just taking snapshots as he went.

He would return to a previous day's location and reenact battles to get it on tape.

That's a little too much PT Barnum for my tastes.

My idea of a war veteran is the humble servant. Kerry just doesn't fit that mold.

I respect his participation, but the details of his participation leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

And a monkey in a suit isn't PT Barnum for your tastes?

Post by **Sylvus** » July 28, 2004, 7:33 pm

masteen wrote:While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

Actually, according to everything I've read, Kerry was awarded 3 Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 28, 2004, 7:34 pm

I also should add that Bush's military service does nothing win my vote.

He won my vote for other reasons.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 28, 2004, 7:34 pm

noel wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Excuse me Ill use that tem as long as your fnord buddys keep calling Bush a baby killer. So for now Tata Baby killer supporter.
If you've been paying attention to any of my recent posts, I think you'd find that while I'm not a Kerry supporter, I'm not a Bush supporter at all.

Masteen: You can get a purple heart for stubbing your toe if you really want.

Noel with all due respect non of my post were directed to you, You at least can express your opinion on Bush without getting insulting.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 28, 2004, 7:37 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:My idea of a war veteran is the humble servant. Kerry just doesn't fit that mold.

I respect his participation, but the details of his participation leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

If he followed orders and completed his missions to the best of his abilities, there's not a thing you can say about the man's service. If he was honorably discharged and decided to comment on what went on in a negative light, that is probably the MOST American thing you can possibly do. Your desire to force a level of ideology on a veteran of one of our wars in order for them to receive war veteran status is wrong.

For the record I have yet to find something I really like about John Kerry, so I make these comments only as an advocate of individuals who served in our armed forces, and not as an advocate of a political party or ideology.

Cart: Fair enough; though I still hate to see that term applied broadly.

I know a veteran of the Vietnam war that still had nightmares for a long time (perhaps he still does, I haven't spoken to him about it in quite a while) because of situations where children were involved. I don't remember specifics, but one of them involved a 10 year old boy walking into a bar and shooting at whomever was in sight, another involved a child with a vest full of explosives heading for a barracks and having to be shot by an American soldier who realized what was happening.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 28, 2004, 8:07 pm

While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star.

Actually, according to everything I've read, Kerry was awarded 3 Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star.

I do believe that is correct yes.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 28, 2004, 9:01 pm

noel wrote:Cart, please drop the 'babykiller' bullshit.

The Viet-Cong would often wire their kids up with explosives or hand them a gun and send them into a military installation or bar frequented by American military personnel and blow them up. While I'm sure there were some sick fucks that actually enjoyed the killing aspect of the war, a lot of times women and children were killed in the name of survival.

It's similar to the end of the movie Black Hawk Down when the soldier shoots the kid or woman (I can't remember which) that's pointing an AK-47 at him. When you're about to be shot, politics are the last thing on your mind.

Until you can give me the exact circumstances where Kerry shot a woman or child, I would really appreciate you not using that term ever again. I'm certainly willing to look at legitimate evidence that there was wrongdoing, but that accusation is wholly inappropriate.

While I completely agree with your opinion on this, I will remind you, and everyone else, that it was the anti-war movement of the 70's- people like Jane Fonda and John Kerry- that popularized the term "baby killer". While I doubt that specific term ever passed John Kerry's lips (but who knows for sure), it most certainly was by people he associated himself with after the war.

I think it's bullshit that Kerry is lauding his Vietnam service now, when immediately after he was disowning his service, throwing away those medals he now is so proud of, and adding to the negative perception of those soldiers he now claims as his comrades-in-arms.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 28, 2004, 9:43 pm

Totally agree.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 28, 2004, 10:10 pm

noel wrote: Your desire to force a level of ideology on a veteran of one of our wars in order for them to receive war veteran status is wrong.

I'm not forcing anything on anyone.

I am responding to his effort to sell himself.

His "I'm a war veteran" message to me is not as impactful as it could have been because of what he did while serving, and because of what he does now in reference to his service.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 28, 2004, 10:32 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:He wasn't just taking snapshots as he went.

He would return to a previous day's location and reenact battles to get it on tape.

you are so far deluded I do not even know why people waste their time debating with you. re-enacting battles? are you snorting gasoline?

so adex, was he re-enacting battles to further his future politcal career before or after planning the world trade center attacks with satan and undead adolf hitler?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 28, 2004, 10:36 pm

I don't really see anything wrong about the attitude that "I was there, I know how horrible it was, and I will only use war as the VERY last resort". Personally, I'd much rather have someone like that than someone who has no idea but also doesn't think twice about sending other people into harm's way.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 28, 2004, 10:44 pm

Cartalas wrote:
masteen wrote:While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

And one of those was questionable, The puke was trying to get out of Vietnam.

man, SHUT THE FUCK UP
It makes me sick that people question a mans status as a war hero in the face of blind partisanship. If George Bush did half as much to serve his country in the military then you assholes would be jumping all over his record.
John McCain is a war hero, i dont agree with many of his politics, but i would be disgusted with myself to downplay his service while sitting on my ass and posting on a mesage board

How many lives have you conservative assholes saved, while risking your own who post on this board?...how many times have you been shot in combat, asshole?
How many lives has Bush saved by risking his own? How many times has Bush been shot in combat?

I can honestly care less about John Kerrys vietnam record when i go to vote for him, or George Bush's for that manner, becouse there war records have little (not nothing) to do with how well they can lead this country on a domestic level

Until you can out do John Kerry, shut the fuck up

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 28, 2004, 10:48 pm

I'm not sure I fully understand all the "waffle house" shit.

Kerry is avoiding hypothetical questions on what he might do if he's president.

Bush is avoiding direct questions on what he's actually done as president.

Historically, Kerry avoiding exposing his platform early is a very smart move against an embattled encumbent, because it gives them much less to work with for the smear and scare campagin sure to come. If you doubt that, look at the way democrats are attacking his war career, when their candidate was home hiding under his bed (not that military service would mean anything to me in voting, but they are attacking from a laughable position)

As to "not knowing what Kerry would do" no one ever knows what the president will do in a given situation that hasn't occured. Bush had a pretty clearly defined platform before he was elected, did he follow it? Has any politician in the last 50 years?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 29, 2004, 1:03 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:He wasn't just taking snapshots as he went.

He would return to a previous day's location and reenact battles to get it on tape.

At least he was there in the first place to be able to do as such. The closest thing Bush can do for that is to slip on a flight suit and get escorted to an aircraft carrier.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 29, 2004, 2:11 am

Siji wrote:At least he was there in the first place to be able to do as such. The closest thing Bush can do for that is to slip on a flight suit and get escorted to an aircraft carrier.

Mission Accomplished!

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 29, 2004, 2:27 am

kyoukan wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:He wasn't just taking snapshots as he went.

He would return to a previous day's location and reenact battles to get it on tape.
you are so far deluded I do not even know why people waste their time debating with you. re-enacting battles? are you snorting gasoline?

so adex, was he re-enacting battles to further his future politcal career before or after planning the world trade center attacks with satan and undead adolf hitler?

Kyo, I wouldn't do you the discourtesy of making this up. I simply mention what I have read about the man.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc8.htm

"Kerry carried a home movie camera to record his exploits for later viewing," charges a naval officer in the upcoming book UNFIT FOR COMMAND.

"Kerry would revisit ambush locations for reenacting combat scenes where he would portray the hero, catching it all on film. Kerry would take movies of himself walking around in combat gear, sometimes dressed as an infantryman walking resolutely through the terrain. He even filmed mock interviews of himself narrating his exploits. A joke circulated among Swiftees was that Kerry left Vietnam early not because he received three Purple Hearts, but because he had recorded enough film of himself to take home for his planned political campaigns."

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 29, 2004, 2:31 am

Siji wrote:At least he was there in the first place to be able to do as such.

Yup, kudos to Kerry in that regard.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » July 29, 2004, 6:39 am

masteen wrote:While I will not bash his service in Vietnam, it's not like he won the Medal of Honor or the Silver Star. You get a purple heart for getting shot. By those standards, we should elect 50 Cent: he been shot 8 times.

while this might be true (oversimplified, but true), i really wish that you wouldn't belittle the purple heart award. the veterans who have been awarded a purple heart put themselves in harm's way doing their duty for our country. as a result, they were either wounded or killed.

my father won't talk about vietnam to this day. the subject of war in general upsets him so badly that i will never bring it up around him. he was awarded his purple heart due to wounds inflicted by a vietnamese soldier with a flame thrower, after which he killed the soldier and continued fighting. he was drafted.

a more detailed list of purple heart criteria can be found here.

i don't give a shit about kerry, or his stupid cameras. but he must have been over there doing something other than making movies to be injured in combat 3 times.

(sorry for being squishy about my dad)

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 29, 2004, 11:11 am

as one of his crewmates said: you don't fill out applications for medals, and they don't give them away for decoration.

and he did get a silver star and a bronze star Masteen. which i'm not sure you get for stubbing your toenail - regardless of what right wing propagandists would tell you.

i think you are right to wonder about what the guy's motives were for filming his exploits. i think it is understandible for a young man who admired John F. Kennedy to want to emulate him. Young people often are overly idealistic and certainly do things in a style that they wouldn't have done later in life. I know that is certainly true for myself.

I'm not trying to say everything Kerry does is OK and i think Kerry is GI Joe or anything like that. i just don't really think it is a big deal that he wanted to be just like JFK (there was a movie made of JFK's heroics in the South Pacific) and movies and video were much more powerful (i imagine) as images in the 60s, simply because they weren't as omnipresent as they are today.

i certainly think that the people who served with him in Vietnam who liked him and hated him should be heard from. Though make no mistake about the political agenda, and financial backing of the person's pushing the publication of that book of the guys speaking out against him.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 29, 2004, 11:48 am

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking ... -7822r.htm

U.S. Medal of Honor winners slam Kerry

Washington, DC, Jul. 27 (UPI) -- A letter signed by 24 Congressional Medal of Honor winners criticizing U.S. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., was released Tuesday.