'Iraq war based on faulty intelligence'

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'Iraq war based on faulty intelligence'

Post by Aslanna »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,1 ... 01,00.html
The American people were misled over the threat posed by Iraq in the run-up to war, according to a scathing US senate intelligence committee report released today.

The bipartisan committee found the key US assertions leading to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq - that Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons and was working to make nuclear weapons - were wrong and had been based on false or overstated CIA analyses.

While the report is harshly critical of the CIA, it does not address the role played by the administration of the US president, George Bush.

Following pressure from Republicans on the committee, the report is being published in two phases, with the White House being spared the committee's scrutiny until phase two begins.

The second part of the report may not be published until after the presidential election takes place in November.


Senator Pat Roberts, the Kansas Republican who heads the committee, told reporters assessments that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons and could make a nuclear weapon by the end of the decade had been wrong.

"As the report will show, they were also unreasonable and largely unsupported by the available intelligence," he said. "This was a global intelligence failure."

The committee's vice-chairman and ranking Democrat, Senator Jay Rockefeller, of West Virginia, said: "Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come.

"Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before."

Even before its publication, it was clear that the senate intelligence report would not be the final word on what the Bush administration knew, when it knew it, and how much it may have sought to cherry-pick intelligence to justify a previously-made decision to attack Iraq.

Senator Rockefeller expressed regret that the committee had split the investigation into two phases.

He insisted that, in the run-up to war, the Bush administration had repeatedly characterised the threat from Iraq "in more ominous and threatening terms than any intelligence would have allowed".

In addition, the CIA insisted that 20% of the report should remain hidden from the public on national security grounds.

The report repeatedly condemns the departing CIA director, George Tenet, accusing him of skewing advice to top policy-makers with the CIA's view, and casting aside dissenting views from other intelligence agencies overseen by the state or defence departments.

It blames Mr Tenet for not personally reviewing Mr Bush's 2003 State of the Union address, which contained since-discredited references to Iraq's attempts to purchase uranium in Africa.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan, travelling with Mr Bush on a campaign trip today, said the committee's report essentially "agrees with what we have said, which is we need to take steps to continue strengthening and reforming our intelligence capabilities so we are prepared to meet the new threats that we face in this day and age."

Mr Tenet has resigned, and leaves his post on Sunday.

Intelligence analysts worked from the assumption that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons and was seeking to make more, as well as trying to revive a nuclear weapons programme.

Instead, investigations following the invasion of the country showed Saddam had no nuclear weapons programme and no biological weapons. Only small amounts of chemical weapons have ever been found.

Analysts ignored or discounted conflicting information because of their assumptions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, the report said.

"This 'group think' dynamic led intelligence community analysts, collectors and managers to both interpret ambiguous evidence as conclusively indicative of a WMD programme as well as ignore or minimise evidence that Iraq did not have active and expanding weapons of mass destruction programmes," the report concluded.

Such assumptions had also led analysts to inflate snippets of questionable information into broad declarations that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons."
I have no comment!

Although it probably has more to do with the Bush administration wanting to get rid of Saddam than a actual failure of intelligence.
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Post by Akaran_D »

Or more like the administration pushing to get the intelligence to justify a war.
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Post by Hesten »

Without even reading that post, i will agree.
"Iraq war based on faulty intelligence" are correct, the problem is that the faulty intelligence are on the leader of the country :D
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Post by Rekaar. »

Such assumptions had also led analysts to inflate snippets of questionable information into broad declarations that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons."
And you don't think that in a 500 page bipartisan Senate report any one of the 200 members of the intelligence community interviewed would have said anything indicating the White House if there was something shady going on? That's hard to buy, my friendly libs!

Could it be? Could it even be possible that the CIA just messed up as this report clearly states? COULD IT BE THAT BUSH DIDN'T LIE!?

Say it ain't so, voro!
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Post by Kelshara »

Only the most naive and blindly conservative will claim that they did not exagerate.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kelshara wrote:Only the most naive and blindly conservative will claim that they did not exagerate.
only the most fanatical, keep claiming things they have no proof for.
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Post by Aslanna »

Assuming we buy into that.. What possible reason is there for splitting the report into two sections with the second part supposedly not coming out until after the election?

Call it fanaticism if you wish. I prefer to call it skepticism.
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Post by Lynks »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Only the most naive and blindly conservative will claim that they did not exagerate.
only the most fanatical, keep claiming things they have no proof for.
Someone send this to Bush please...
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Post by Kelshara »

only the most fanatical, keep claiming things they have no proof for.
Tell that to Cheney about Iraq-al Qaeda link.. or Bush and WMDs.. or..
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Post by Acies »

Or any religious people who worship a creation deity (aka God).
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Post by Markulas »

Get out.

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Post by Karae »

I don't agree. This war isn't based on faulty intelligence. It's based on a war-mongering monster's desire to line his pockets with oil money and his alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Karae wrote:I don't agree. This war isn't based on faulty intelligence. It's based on a war-mongering monster's desire to line his pockets with oil money and his alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family.
lol. Geee, I think someone saw F911. Lemmings.
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Post by Lynks »

You didn't need to see F 9/11 to know that. It's kinda like common knowledge. Ignoramus.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Lynks wrote:You didn't need to see F 9/11 to know that. It's kinda like common knowledge. Ignoramus.
Yes your conspiracy theory is common knowledge, yes. Many powerful people have connections with other powerful people. You can play the six degrees of Kevin Bacon game with 80% of politicians and find they have received money or have had a relationship with just about every one.

Saddam Hussein is out of power. The Iraqi people have a shot and a brighter future many years from now. That region has a shot at some sense of stability years down the road if Iraq pans out. Many countries around the world have made the sacrifices necessary to do this, besides the weak and scared out spoken minority(liberals, etc.). Without people who have a broader vision and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices you wouldn't be able to sit at your computer and type your negative destructive comments. Enjoy your freedom scumbag. Be thankful their is a countries like America and it's allies who continues to put itself out for the good of the world.
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Post by Thess »

Yeah only 11,164 civilians of Iraq had to die for *IF* it pans out. What was I thinking, the neocons have only messed up every single step of the way to try to make this hairbrained idea work.

Why not go to every country to give them a brighter future and tell them how they should live and what their governments should be like.
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Post by Markulas »

But wait doesn't North Korea and other "axis of evil" countries actually have WMD?

oh shit nvm
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Post by Winnow »

Thess wrote:Yeah only 11,164 civilians of Iraq had to die for *IF* it pans out. What was I thinking, the neocons have only messed up every single step of the way to try to make this hairbrained idea work.
That's just a drop in the bucket compared to the Saddam Massacres. Give me a sec and I'll find the most bloated numbers I can for how many people he's killed. I need to add in the Kuwaiti civilians as well. Image
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Post by Voronwë »

so what exactly is the yardstick on how many innocent civilains it is OK to kill to perform political engineering?

is it more or less than 3,100?
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Post by Winnow »

Voronwë wrote:so what exactly is the yardstick on how many innocent civilains it is OK to kill to perform political engineering?

is it more or less than 3,100?
The equation gets complicated but it's something like:

# of american civilians killed X 40 X # of beheadings / # of abused prisoners
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Voronwë wrote:so what exactly is the yardstick on how many innocent civilains it is OK to kill to perform political engineering?

is it more or less than 3,100?
What's your suggestion then? Inaction? Inaction got us 9-11. How quick we are to forget. Look long term. Stop viewing life through your short sighted eyes.
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Post by Thess »

I am looking long term, we've made a recruiting grounds for Al Qaeda - which makes them even more of a problem then they were. Personally I think we should have put more than 10,000 troops into Afghanistan and actually gotten rid of them.

I swear Midnyte you get dumber every single day.
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Post by Voronwë »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Voronwë wrote:so what exactly is the yardstick on how many innocent civilains it is OK to kill to perform political engineering?

is it more or less than 3,100?
What's your suggestion then? Inaction? Inaction got us 9-11. How quick we are to forget. Look long term. Stop viewing life through your short sighted eyes.
yes my answer is to line up all our children on I-95 and just have them run down by 18 wheelers. that way the terrorists won't be able to hurt them.



Interesting that you say "Inaction got us 9-11".

Senators Hart and Rudman issued a report in February of 2001 basically underlieing the domestic terrorist threat we faced. Bush refused to meet with them to go over the report (as they requested) because Sen. Rudman ran John McCain's primary campaign in New Hamphire the previous year.


and i'm sure you understand that Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.
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Post by Thess »

:lol:
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Post by Winnow »

Thess wrote:I am looking long term, we've made a recruiting grounds for Al Qaeda - which makes them even more of a problem then they were. Personally I think we should have put more than 10,000 troops into Afghanistan and actually gotten rid of them.

I swear Midnyte you get dumber every single day.
That's a brilliant plan if Al Qaeda was only based in Afghanistan. Back to the drawing board.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nope, sorry to disappoint you Voro, but I feel there is a connection. I don't think Iraq had anythign to do with 9/11, but nations like that are a danger. I have no problems with us going in there and removing that piece of shit while we were in the area. It's all semantics to me.

Bush could go on TV and say he knowing lied to the American public about the information gathered by the CIA and other world intelligence agencies and then say I really only wanted to avenge my father's unfinished job during his presidency and also to impress my friends in Saudi Arabia......and I wouldn't give a fuck. The greater good is what is important. Symbolism over substance is what rule the day anymore, but it is fucking wrong. I eagerly await to see what Iraq's future is, I hope it is great.

With all that being said, he won't say any of things. Probably because they aren't all true. Probably because most of it is his opposition trying to cloud the public view for political gain. But, hey, that's what politics is all about unfortunately.
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Post by Voronwë »

Mid i agree with you that it is important to act in the interests of the US.

I'm not convinced that removing Hussein actually did that though. It may have strengthened Iran's position in the region. Isreal already thinks we have no chance of accomplishing our goals there based on strategic blunders we committed at the outset, etc. LOng term, i actually do hope that Wolfowitz, etc were correct in their assessment that this would engineer the region to help work against Islamist, anti-American terrorists. I am fairly skeptical of that happening though.

i dont really know what this thread is about, so i'll not derail further :p
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Post by Rekaar. »

Karae wrote:I don't agree. This war isn't based on faulty intelligence. It's based on a war-mongering monster's desire to line his pockets with oil money and his alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family.
I'm starting to doubt if any amount of empirical evidence would change that narrow mind on the subject. Regardless of how ridiculous it is to claim any one of those things we can break it down a little and see just what the hell you're thinking.

"I don't agree"
-The report doesn't state opinions without supporting research and evidence, where's yours to counter it? None? Always nothing from you.

"War-mongering monster"
-Why did your candidates vote in favor of the war, then? Why the dissent only as the election draws closer and not before? Why are they on record fully endorsing the move to Iraq and Afghanistan before the election went into full swing? Were they lying then or are they lying now?

"Alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family"
-The alliance comes in what form? The only one I'm aware of is the "link" of being in the same investment group. Also, the Bin Laden family alone has what? 54 siblings in it? Of which Osama is an outcast member?

Do you have anything that isn't an emotional whine to say about anything of worth? You surely must have something factual that backs your claims. Tell me you don't just have a feeling and your burning hatred isn't being stoked by Al Franken. Tell me there's some substance you're cooking in that intelligent mind. If I'm truly wrong I want to know it, but your rants aren't doing it for me. Convince me.
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Post by Xzion »

Rekaar. wrote:
Karae wrote:I don't agree. This war isn't based on faulty intelligence. It's based on a war-mongering monster's desire to line his pockets with oil money and his alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family.
I'm starting to doubt if any amount of empirical evidence would change that narrow mind on the subject. Regardless of how ridiculous it is to claim any one of those things we can break it down a little and see just what the hell you're thinking.

"I don't agree"
-The report doesn't state opinions without supporting research and evidence, where's yours to counter it? None? Always nothing from you.

"War-mongering monster"
-Why did your candidates vote in favor of the war, then? Why the dissent only as the election draws closer and not before? Why are they on record fully endorsing the move to Iraq and Afghanistan before the election went into full swing? Were they lying then or are they lying now?


"Alliance with the Saudi royal family and Bin Laden family"
-The alliance comes in what form? The only one I'm aware of is the "link" of being in the same investment group. Also, the Bin Laden family alone has what? 54 siblings in it? Of which Osama is an outcast member?

Do you have anything that isn't an emotional whine to say about anything of worth? You surely must have something factual that backs your claims. Tell me you don't just have a feeling and your burning hatred isn't being stoked by Al Franken. Tell me there's some substance you're cooking in that intelligent mind. If I'm truly wrong I want to know it, but your rants aren't doing it for me. Convince me.
While I never supported the war myself, many senators (who have been strong enough to admit Iraq was a mistake, unlike Bush) were decieved by his administration, very stupidly i might add, but just like the american public (60 something percent agree iraq was a mistake), they were decieved

As far as the Saudi and Bin Laden ties, i agree the entire thing is stupid, even after seeing F/ 911. Moore almost tried to make it out that Bush was in a conspiracy behind the 9/11 attacks, granted he didnt do everything he could, and some of his friends have greatly influenced his international views.
As far as the Bin Ladens, i think one of them lived in my neighborhood for several years, i wouldnt even be surprised if ive met him one time or another, honestly, who gives a fuck?
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Post by kyoukan »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Nope, sorry to disappoint you Voro, but I feel there is a connection.
you also don't think you're a collosal fucking moron and look how far that gets you.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

kyoukan wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Nope, sorry to disappoint you Voro, but I feel there is a connection.
you also don't think you're a collosal fucking moron and look how far that gets you.
Well said ....well said. You're right, I do not. In fact, I know I am not. I also know I don't give a fuck what a person like you thinks about me or anything. Have a nice day.
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Post by kyoukan »

well basically everyone in this forum disagrees with you so I don't know what to tell you.

...aside from the fact you're a collosal fucking moron.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

kyoukan wrote:well basically everyone in this forum disagrees with you so I don't know what to tell you.

...aside from the fact you're a collosal fucking moron.
and I love you Kyo.
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Post by Sirton »

None of that answers the main point of the build up to the conflict..All yall spout is crap from your propaganda filled minds.

Why didnt Saddam account for his weapons of the past so embargo's could be lifted?...So the intellegence of UK, Russia, UN, France, Germany, Bill Clinton admin. ect. and the Current US administration could be updated and corrected.

The answer is Saddam didn't and any responsible President after the aftermath of 9/11 would of made similar decisions if it was John Kerry, Bill Clinton or even Al Gore(if he was president), because if the opposite were true..our government would fail at its first responsibility in trying to protect national security when they see a possible major threat and if so should be overthrown as worthless. The only difference any of those administrations would of done is maybe alittle different time table, maybe given UN inspectors more time, but Saddam may still be in power.

Saddams regime needed to leave this earth and Im glad hes no longer in power...How can anyone trust in him to keep from trying to hurt his declared enemys... He needed togo for directly causing the worse human made environmental destruction ever to occur(You environmentalist SHOULD BE GRATEFUL HES GONE), and for mass genocide of his own and other people and using WMDs on his own and other people aswell.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

None of that answers the main point of the build up to the conflict..All yall spout is crap from your propaganda filled minds.
This from the guy quoting his white house sources before the war. Uh huh.
Why didnt Saddam account for his weapons of the past so embargo's could be lifted?...So the intellegence of UK, Russia, UN, France, Germany, Bill Clinton admin. ect. and the Current US administration could be updated and corrected
To maintain the illusion of strength, probably. So he wouldn't get rolled by Iran or others. And besides he was our enemy so why the fuck would he tell us anything?
The answer is Saddam didn't and any responsible President after the aftermath of 9/11 would of made similar decisions if it was John Kerry, Bill Clinton or even Al Gore(if he was president)
No. At least one of those would have waited on the UN inspections (not "taken the word of a madman" or whatever dubya's latest simplistic soundbite was). You righties are all bent out of shape but you forget that all the rest of us wanted was proper verification of the intelligence on Iraq's supposed WMD, compliance with international law and a little fucking patience before sacrificing our soldiers in a hastily "prepared" war.
ONE SHRED of evidence was all it would have taken and the anti-war sentiment would have evaporated. But your administration had taken an a priori decision to invade and steamrolled in there regardless. THIS is what has pissed so many people off. ESPECIALLY as no WMD were found.
Saddams regime needed to leave this earth and Im glad hes no longer in power...How can anyone trust in him to keep from trying to hurt his declared enemys... He needed togo for directly causing the worse human made environmental destruction ever to occur(You environmentalist SHOULD BE GRATEFUL HES GONE), and for mass genocide of his own and other people and using WMDs on his own and other people aswell
Glad he's gone but not grateful to the good ole' US of A. On a simplistic, black and white, "good" v "bad" level, sure. But it's never that simple and your persistant exhortations to have everyone view it that way are tiresome and insulting.
For the last time - this isn't about the lefties thinking Saddam was a swell guy and being against any nation's right to act to defend itself. It's about the interpretation of this right, and outrage at the bullshit we were all fed to start an unnecessary war that cost the lives of 1000's of civilians and 100's of our misused troops for small or questionable gain. Gains that could have been acquired more effectively and at less cost if a little restraint, respect and patience had been shown rather than charging in to discharge a vendetta.
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Post by Voronwë »

i hope you were drunk when you wrote that post Sirton.
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