Important Changes to EQ... Nerfs Inside!

Nylith · Post by **Nylith** » October 8, 2002, 10:48 pm

http://eqlive.station.sony.com/communit ... p?id=52118

Development Update, Game Balance

Just like everyone else, we're people. People make mistakes.

Some mistakes aren't that unbalancing and are safe to keep in the game and work around. Others can sometimes yield gameplay that turns out to be even more fun than developers even imagined, as ingenious adventurers discover unrealized potential in their abilities. Yet others, even the best-intentioned ones, can cause an entire style of gameplay to shift dramatically in a direction that no one particularly enjoys.

Unfortunately, today, we need to address a number of the latter kind. For that, we sincerely apologize. It is absolutely our fault that certain abilities have been allowed to grow out of control.

In our last letter, we stated that our goal for large scale battles in EverQuest was never one of endurance contests. We'd prefer to actively return to the type of battles that everyone feels are more fun - Battles that require tactics and skill, as opposed to attendance and endurance.

Due to some specific abilities as they exist today in EverQuest, this unfortunately isn't possible. The mathematics simply cannot be made to work. In extreme cases such as that, the abilities themselves must be altered.

It isn't possible, for example, to ever make another fast-action, do-or-die-quickly style encounter as long as Manaburn exists in its current form, unless it is targeted solely at an entire group of people who have this ability, as it will otherwise be trivial to those who do.

Likewise, it isn't possible to create encounters that must be completed in a certain amount of time due to mana consumption, when Rods of Mystical Transvergence provide an essentially unlimited source of mana. Every challenging encounter must also be challenging for the massive raid of people who have infinite mana, and the encounter then becomes undoable to those who do not have the infinite supply.

Hypothetically, the only alternative to changing abilities such as these would be to inflate every other class up to the same tier of relative power (be it damaging power, or mana regenerative power), then inflate the rest of the world to compensate for the sudden rash of new found power. Drastic, world-wide changes of that sort, however, are a guaranteed way to do more harm than good.

The time has come to address these abilities. Fortunately, after doing so, EverQuest as a whole, and the encounters in Planes of Power, will be able to be tuned for forces who are interested in active participation in the game, as opposed to those forced to sit through yet another 45 minute encounter with a single NPC, as became the norm in Luclin.

* Manaburn. In addition to the problem described above, this ability was never intended to be a way for small bands of high level players to hold hostage the advancement of larger numbers of more appropriately leveled people. While this was not the universal case, it has unfortunately happened enough across most servers to where it became a large concern in recent months. The concept of someone looking to complete their epic quest via teamwork and overcoming the odds, only to have their attempts obstructed, in some cases, by small teams of players looking to profit financially from their power, quite frankly, is not a behavior that we wish the game to reinforce.

In the next patch, Wizards who have purchased Manaburn will find that their ability points have been refunded. Please make sure that you have fewer than 25 pooled Ability points.

At that point, they will be able to purchase a new Manaburn if they choose, which has most of the power of the old one. However, the new Manaburn leaves a temporary effect on its target when used that does not stack with other Manaburns. The delay that we will be tuning on the Test Server soon will allow a single target to be manaburned no more frequently than once every minute.

Hopefully, this will bring the ability back in line with the original intent -- A powerful ability that allows a Wizard to do massive short-term damage, but not a method for a group of wizards to destroy powerful creatures with zero risk.

* Rods of Mystical Transvergence. The description above shows how this spell has perhaps singlehandedly altered the balance of the end-game encounter by turning it into an event where the largest challenge is setting up a timed rotation of Complete Healing. Once that is established, in many cases, the event is just as playable by leaving AutoAttack on, and wandering away to watch television. This does not make for stellar interactive content.

We view Magicians as an excellent source of damage, especially with the many pet enhancements that have been made over the past year. To be honest, it is a more than a small shame that their full energies have been viewed as "needed" to be spent, full-time, purely on transferring their mana to others. Magicians are supposed to be the masters of elemental conjuration and highly respected as a damage-dealer, not the masters of mana transferrence.

In the next update, Rods of Mystical Transvergence will be changed so that the spell summons an item that is still a valuable upgrade over the original Modulation Rod, yet does not provide an infinite amount of mana. The idea of sudden mana gain spells is only balanced if there is a net loss over time to counteract the rapid infusion. The initial version of the spell that we will be testing summons a Rod containing a single charge of 360 mana for 450 hit points, and can only be used by a person once each minute.

In addition, the Rods themselves will be non-droppable, and spell will turn into a "target based summon," such that the Magician summons them directly onto the recipient, as opposed to having to hand them out manually or create a stockpile on the ground.

Since there are definitely encounters in the game where this type of mana regeneration is mandatory for the encounter to be beaten by a reasonably sized force, a number of those encounters will likewise be re-tuned to shorten their duration, most frequently by lowering the hit points on the NPC in question.

Again, our intent here is provide Magicians with a desirable secondary ability that would ideally be used before a battle, not an ability which essentially compels them to suddenly transform into a full-time support role, transferring their mana to others, as opposed to dealing damage.

* Complete Healing. The concept of any class getting their single best, most efficient primary ability at level 39, has never sat well with most people. In the days of characters having a maximum of 2000-4000 hit points, the spell was absolutely not imbalancing. However, as time went on and characters progressed, now doubling that amount of hit points, it becomes obvious that the spell must be scaled back slightly.

This spell has, over time, become the defining cornerstone of the Cleric class. As such, it cannot be altered significantly. Taking that into account, and given that those with the most hit points in EverQuest have yet to hit the full 10,000 HP cap of this spell, the spell will remain nearly as useful as it is today, by being reclassified as a spell that heals for 7,500 hit points, down from its current cap of 10,000.

This will allow it to continue to be used as it has been in the past, while allowing for more dynamic types of heals to be introduced in the future. Making this change will allow us to providing more entertaining high-end encounters that require more active involvement than setting up a Complete Healing "Rotation" or "Chain," then repeating the same motions until the Large Thing you are facing, eventually falls down.

* Monk Defense. Finally, the issue of defensive ability needs to be addressed with respect to Monks. Monks in EverQuest were originally intended to be a class with excellent offensive potential, both with and without equipment. This ability came at the expense of having only passable defensive abilities, partially in the form of an extremely small, restrictive selection of equipment from which to choose.

This, of course, caused its own series of problems of how to adequately reward the person behind the character. It did not take long for universally equippable items (ALL/ALL items) to be considered by and large as "Monk Loot," as far back as before the launch of Kunark.

Over time, Monks' defensive abilities had been tuned up to correct a perceived weakness. This, taken in combination with a few years of universally equippable, low-weight, high powered items entering the game, slowly transformed Monks into what is arguably the strongest defensive class in the game. Monks get hit less than any other class, and due to the tuning over time, no longer take appreciably more damage when they do get hit.

This imbalance between the classes does need to be addressed in order for the Plate-wearing classes in the game to have their proper relative power. The Plate-wearing classes in the game take a serious penalty to their offensive abilities in order to defend as well as they can, and we cannot fix this problem solely by inflating their defensive abilities to compensate for this. Again, that type of change would harm EverQuest as a whole much more than altering the one class. Likewise, we have no desire to retroactively alter all of the equipment in the game that is contributing to this problem.

Monk defense will be altered somewhat. It is no secret that in EverQuest, a character's Armor Class does not compare equally across different classes. (A Wizard with 1000 AC defends differently than a Warrior with 1000AC, for example.) It's not the most optimal system, for sure, but it is the one that many people have had much time to get used to. As such, Monk defense will be altered such that they may continue wearing the same equipment, however, they will get a decreased benefit to their overall ability to take damage.

Again, we have no desire to make monks unable to take any type of punishment -- far from it. What we are primarily striving for is maintaining the defensive order of the Plate classes being able to take the most punishment, followed by the Chain classes and Monks. The latter being technically a Leather wearing class who will continue to make up the difference by being able to avoid more blows than the rest.

In closing, we would like to again apologize for the amount of time that we've allowed these abilites to remain in their current state. With Planes of Power on the horizon, in order to make encounters that most people would consider "fun," these abilities and class attributes need to be brought back into line as sane upgrades and logical progressions, as opposed to their current manifestations.

We appreciate the many well thought-out letters that have been sent in on these topics and more. As always, we thank you for playing EverQuest and look forward to seeing you soon in the Planes of Power.

- The EverQuest Development Team

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » October 8, 2002, 10:52 pm

I was just about to post this
all i can say is holy shit..

Scotto · Post by **Scotto** » October 8, 2002, 11:00 pm

It really is best for the game though. Only thing I can see though is just having even more clerics. Enough clerics would still have the effect of infinite mana w/ out the hyper-rods.

Letania · Post by **Letania** » October 8, 2002, 11:06 pm

Every non-wizard I have ever talked to thinks mb is worth it. It isn't. Idiots at graffe's flipping shit though!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 8, 2002, 11:17 pm

Wonder how many fights this will impact.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 8, 2002, 11:34 pm

Holy pie.

MB nerf - not a biggie. The MB squads getting rich are over tho.

Mod Rod - holy shit. Gonna need to double your clerics if they don't seriously adjust mob hp.

CH nerf - don't see this as a big thing. 7500hp rotation on a 10K tank is still usable.

Monk nerf - /shrug.

Seriously shocked by these changes, didn't see it coming at all.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » October 8, 2002, 11:44 pm

BFD. All these changes were needed. CH should be 5k instead of 7500 though.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 8, 2002, 11:48 pm

the only thing i can say after reading all that is:

"rofl"

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 9, 2002, 12:09 am

Looks like Furor got his wish! At least in regards to Monks.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » October 9, 2002, 1:21 am

I think my anal cavity just stretched to 5 times it's normal Vision capicty.

Honest to all, what the hell are they thinking? MB, make it somthing that doesn't work against mobs 63 up. CH.. that scares me a little. The mod rod change? THE HELL does this fix? Monk defense? I can't make up my mind.

All my mage / cleric / monk / wizard friends are going to be crying tonight, for this I am sure.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » October 9, 2002, 1:41 am

The monks boards have exploded, its hillarious, at least 12 locked threads and its only that low because no mods are still on to lock

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » October 9, 2002, 1:47 am

I play a monk.

I'm not surprised they are nerfing our defense. It's sad when I can tank a mob better than an SK because I avoid so much dmg, and I don't even have any AA's yet! I must say that I'll be sad since I'll have to heal myself more when I solo, but oh well. I can't say as I was shocked by reading it that the monks were gonna get nerfed.

So long as it's not an insane nerf I acn live with it, but if I see rogues tanking better than me then I'll get a bit upset.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » October 9, 2002, 2:27 am

Monk defense was completely out of line with what it should be. Nerfing their mitigation ability has been long overdue.

Ahmik · Post by **Ahmik** » October 9, 2002, 2:47 am

Did I miss an important patch message last time??

This is a nerf, certainly unrelated to the Nerf Post, and maybe even a little ignorant, but I have to say this...

I have noticed since the last patch that my L32 mana song returns less mana that it used to. Normally for mana regen I sing Amplification and I cycle Chorus of Clarity. Mana regen has been very stable and predictable. If the Druid says he is at 10% mana, I can pretty well predict when he is at 50, 60, 80, FOM whatever... But recently mana regen takes longer. From OOM to 70% takes the same amount of time that OOM to FOM used to take... I say "Mana Check" thinking he is near full and he says 70?? WTF?? It is the same with the BST, the PAL, the CLR, the SHD... I don't understand... nothing was said about this that I am aware of...

It's not that big of an issue with ME because in my 43 levels I have solo'd almost all of it... Grouped a few times just out of boredom, but no more than a few blues here and there since I hit 42...

Anyone else heard of or experienced this first-hand? I welcome any comments.

Meowz
43 Bard
11 deaths in 43 levels... I must be doing something very wrong.

Letania · Post by **Letania** » October 9, 2002, 2:52 am

Akaran, Mod Rods trivialize mana regen, mana pool, and ch rotations when used correctly. They make 30 minute fights possible, which in turn makes the 30 minute fights be in the game, and 30 minute fights are bullshit.

I cheer the MB nerf - glad I get my 5 points back. Would like MC to scale (and don't forget natural healing too) to 6 pnts/tic at rank 3 however.

CH nerf... Clerics just hope this means you won't have to use INCREDIBLY GAY ROTATIONS to deal with any and every encounter.

Monks... Fuckit let's fix warriors then balance PoP around that. If they need to bump monks down a tad so be it.

Destinae- · Post by **Destinae-** » October 9, 2002, 3:04 am

roflroflrofl <----ahehaehahe.

Fucking hilarious how they hang off whatever the hot topic on message boards is.

Mod rod change doesn't change anything, you just can't use a lvl 39 cleric in a CH rotation.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » October 9, 2002, 3:14 am

Yeah but Let.. when the choice is have a 30 minute fight or not at all.. which do you do? Not a fan of extended fights either..

Lleinen · Post by **Lleinen** » October 9, 2002, 3:58 am

-The only thing I see really "damaging" and will need to change lots of tactics is the new mod rod crap. Usually like 50 rods are dropped before a fight begins (for long fights) and reset until the mob comes, then the mage resets em again and again till they get low and then makes more...but whatever.
-This is most likely going to be the main reason mobs' hp will be decreased...it'd take like ...a lot of mages per-cleric for a normal 900k-1mil hp mob with a 2-3 sec rotatoin now a days...

-I can kinda see where monks are pissed on the nerf, no HUGE biggie, but sometimes when they pull they pull some strong shit and usually need their defense, guess they'll just have to update their tactics...justlike mod rods...

Peaceout

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 9, 2002, 9:32 am

It's nice to see VI grow some balls and do what has to be done.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 9, 2002, 10:00 am

/auction WTS 60 Mage w/epic 35 AA points 5 of them banked.

Run3
regen3
fury3
scm2
pet discipline

-Ajran

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » October 9, 2002, 10:15 am

Mages have been bitching about how boring rodding is since they were invented. Now these mages have a new role on raids - dealing damage as well as rodding. I can only assume the mages complaining about this are the biggest retards in the game.

I guess now we find out who's interested in actually playing ther class and who just wants to click a few buttons and collect their phat lewt.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 9, 2002, 10:16 am

The modrod thing will be tough to deal with. They mentioned nothing about fixing the encounters, just fucking up the way we go about them. Hell, not all of us are even at the point of knocking down high-end luclin mobs yet, much less finding them even up... hah

Truant · Post by **Truant** » October 9, 2002, 10:26 am

so, and correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm assuming that they will now detune a pretty sizable chunk of luclin to match these changes?

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » October 9, 2002, 10:37 am

Yay, they no touchy rogues! weeeee!

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » October 9, 2002, 10:43 am

No word on Bard changes , although we really need to be put on a different dmg scale , maybe with Rogue (without the BS of course). I for one am really tired of hearing " keep mana up, means I can nuke more" Some of the people out there are just clueless of what power Bards have ona group. With certain Melee songs going we can come pretty close to doubling the DPS rate, well maybe not that much. In my humble lil opinion , we should be used for a lot more than just resist pimps and mana whores. just my 2cp worth ,,, we'll see how bad the hose the bard and break all our songs on the next patch

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 9, 2002, 10:46 am

so, and correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm assuming that they will now detune a pretty sizable chunk of luclin to match these changes?

So they say. I see that happening by.. oh.. 2008 maybe.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 9, 2002, 11:02 am

i agree in principle with all 4 of the changes.

we will see how they are actually implemented though.

manaburn was way overpowered on kunark content. it should be just like dragonsbane or whatever and only usable against mobs with a certain # of hp.

cause a wiz will still be able to solo VS with this. now that isnt really a huge deal to most of us, but to low level guilds doing their epics, that is important to them.

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » October 9, 2002, 11:38 am

I like the changes : )

Aarinu · Post by **Aarinu** » October 9, 2002, 11:51 am

They mentioned nothing about fixing the encounters

Read the message again. They did infact say they will.

Since there are definitely encounters in the game where this type of mana regeneration is mandatory for the encounter to be beaten by a reasonably sized force, a number of those encounters will likewise be re-tuned to shorten their duration, most frequently by lowering the hit points on the NPC in question.

As for the Manaburn thing, there are other ways to fix the problem. The way they are doing it is ok, but I would rather see it done somewhat like Vox and Naggy were done. Not that it will port you out, but make the mobs with less than 50K HP un-MB-able. Or, make it so the 1 minute timer only works on above said mobs. Making it how they are worries me due to stacking, the fact that MB takes all mana, and the 144 minute reuse. If they don't impliment this properly, wizard could loose all mana and do no damage. And, as we know Verant's track record, this will be the case for the first 3 weeks

Monk changes where needed. Sorry monks, but the bottom line is, it was needed.

Cleric nerf won't be as big as you think. With Cleric AA's it shouldn't make that big of a difference

[/quote]

Gidjet · Post by **Gidjet** » October 9, 2002, 12:16 pm

"-I can kinda see where monks are pissed on the nerf, no HUGE biggie, but sometimes when they pull they pull some strong shit and usually need their defense, guess they'll just have to update their tactics...justlike mod rods... "

Verant never approved of the "tactic" of pulling to begin with. They might be hoping this change in monks results in "less" pulling.

Maybe...

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 9, 2002, 12:27 pm

Verant never approved of the "tactic" of pulling to begin with. They might be hoping this change in monks results in "less" pulling.

Take away pulling and really what reason does anyone have to play a Monk when Rogues and Rangers can usually outdamage us? While I agree I shouldn't be able to MT AoW or whatever, I think I should be able to reasonably fillk in for a plate class in an XP group.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » October 9, 2002, 12:31 pm

Scheduled Patch Wednesday, October 16th, at 3AM PST, (10AM GMT)
On Wednesday, October 16th, at 3AM PST, (10AM GMT), all EverQuest servers will be brought down for a scheduled patch. The estimated downtime is 5 hours. The EverQuest Operations Team

Won't this just be a patch to remember.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » October 9, 2002, 12:41 pm

I think I should be able to reasonably fillk in for a plate class in an XP group.

The point is, VI doesn't think you should be able to.

Plate > leather. We can argue the mitigation value of monk training if you want, but the point is VI wants you as a damage class, not a tanking class.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 9, 2002, 12:51 pm

Plate > leather. We can argue the mitigation value of monk training if you want, but the point is VI wants you as a damage class, not a tanking class.

Verant is free to do what they want I suppose. I'm not going to sit and whine about it. I'll either agree with it or not. If the change makes EQ not as much fun then I'll go find other things to do. It's not exactly rocket science.

Oh, and Chain > Leather. So that means Rogues should tank better than Monks and do more damage as well.

Melrin_Specclaster · Post by **Melrin_Specclaster** » October 9, 2002, 1:04 pm

doesnt have a clue and have proved it over and over. I expect it will take weeks to fix mobs appropriately. Day of this patch I expect either a) every big mob to die very easily or b) nothing to die. It will be one or the other, there is no way they will get this right the first, second or third time.

Sure, not many will argue some of these are overdue, but its almost too late to fix this, and the timing is horrid...one week for pop? Come on, pop will have enough broke ass crap in it to fix without trying to retune every encounter in the past expansions. I mean, is pop so broke they need this as a distraction?

I can appreciate the changes (almost) but you get mages use to having 1 major role, you ask them to not completely but almost relearn their class and thats a pain. Maybe the role sucked, but it made them VERY needed on raids....now you will be saying, hey, we dont need you anymore. It will give them more 'fun' in their class, but will remove the importance they felt by being needed on raids.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 9, 2002, 1:06 pm

rogues tank better than rangers, why not monks?

i think the plate, chain, leather designations are very arbitrary at this point in loot itemization in the game.

warriors and other plate melee should be clearly above all other classes in mitigating melee damage. right now they arent.

at what point monks, rangers, and rogues are relative to each other is not a huge deal. if they nerf monks defense down to what rangers were before velious (which no way they will do), they will still be able to tank in melee groups especially with Velious/Luclin gear.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 9, 2002, 1:18 pm

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » October 9, 2002, 1:20 pm

The CH nerf really means jack and shit to most raiding Guilds. All this does for the Guilds with UBER tanks is highlight the need for Clerics to get AA pts. This is also true due to the God Rod nerf. SCM 3 and Healing Gift and Healing Adept along with MC 3 are now very important.

Monk defence nerf... In all honesty this was long over due. There is no way a monk should be able to tank as well as a Plate clad warrior.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » October 9, 2002, 1:32 pm

Fill in for a plate tank in an exp group doesn't mean you are as good as them at it, but that you can get the job done as a substitute. Most of our secondary utility is tied to our acceptable level of defense. If we lose too much of it then we lose any desirability over rogues, who can do more damage or rangers who have utility through their spells as a damaging class

Impossible to tell though until the change occurs. I agree that monks overall damage taking ability was a bit too high (although not to the degree that a lot of the ranting on many boards was making it out to be). From the announcement it sounds like they are going a little further than I would like but it probably won't be catastrophic. Its disappointing though in that their solution doesn't do anything about what in my opinion is the main problem that gave rise to the secondary effect of monk defense being on the high side. Namely, that ac over a certain amount is meaningless, and their itemization balancing leaves a lot to be desired. If they worked on addressing those issues so that people wearing plate actually had more ac and it meant something it would be a healthier long term solution (and allow more of a difference between tanks other than just monks).

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » October 9, 2002, 1:49 pm

Good points Chmee but then it would unbalance things yet again I am sure in VI's vision. I can see it now.

"Due to the unusually high AC on some end game plate classes etc etc etc we have no other choice but to up the damage output of various MOBS and increase their attack speed. This of course will mean that we will have to reimpliment CH, Manaburn, GOD RODS and Monk damage mitigation"

Thanks Verant DEV Team

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 9, 2002, 1:54 pm

ac soft cap fixes the "unusually high AC on some end game plate..."

a softcap which needs to be adjusted i think to give tanks another direction in which to 'grow'.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 9, 2002, 2:00 pm

I get the feeling that they aren't done yet. I just wonder what other things they have in store

Dreadnaught · Post by **Dreadnaught** » October 9, 2002, 2:04 pm

{insert extera long string of explisives here}YOU VERRANT!

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 9, 2002, 2:12 pm

"Oh, and Chain > Leather. So that means Rogues should tank better than Monks and do more damage as well."

It means rogues should mitigate better than monks. Plate classes should mitigate better than chain.

Monks make up for the mitigation difference with superior avoidance (higher dodge skill and block > parry...avoidance > mitigation).

Impirius · Post by **Impirius** » October 9, 2002, 2:15 pm

Most of these changes are needed and were long overdue. Those who are freaking out about mod rods and complete heal shouldn't worry as encounters are being retuned and shortened to provide a quicker and more strategicaly involved fight. I hope they upgrade mages damage though since they said thay want them to be a damage dealing class rather than a mod rod bitch. These changes will allow VI to make FUN encounters in PoP rather than 30min snoozefests.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » October 9, 2002, 2:17 pm

using rods before a raid to help with getting everyone buffed and fom after to get ready to go is good.. using them after a wipe to get everyone up and running faster is good.. using them to make or break a battle i agree is bad.. However, even with the recent pet changes one of my major sources of damage even with pet discipline is rarely used.

woot go go 1k nuke that gets resisted way to much.. a mages mana was better used giving it to a wizard or a cleric.. wizard could do more damage with it.. cleric keeps people alive.. thats > 1k inefficient nuke.

Let me use my friggin epic pet on the boss mobs and i'll gladly throw my 1k nukes in there and kiss mod rod 2 goodbye.

We view Magicians as an excellent source of damage, especially with the many pet enhancements that have been made over the past year. To be honest, it is a more than a small shame that their full energies have been viewed as "needed" to be spent, full-time, purely on transferring their mana to others. Magicians are supposed to be the masters of elemental conjuration and highly respected as a damage-dealer, not the masters of mana transferrence.

we all know by now that how Verant VIEWS things is different then how they actually are. the pet enhancements mean squat after 3 years of Goner pulling the entire fuckin dungeon to the zone line. Thats great what YOU THINK magicians are SUPPOSED to be.. to bad its not what you created.

This is the biggest line of shit in the whole thing:

Likewise, it isn't possible to create encounters that must be completed in a certain amount of time due to mana consumption, when Rods of Mystical Transvergence provide an essentially unlimited source of mana. Every challenging encounter must also be challenging for the massive raid of people who have infinite mana, and the encounter then becomes undoable to those who do not have the infinite supply.

any guild worth their salt has 56+ mages with mod rod 2.. its not exactly a rare spell. these are precisely the guilds that are in the high end content now. now we retune encounters to make up for now having a "finite" mana supply and guess what.. you got 20-30 more guilds without 56+ mages competing for the retuned encounters because they "don't need an infinite mana supply now" There's already enough competition on this server for boss mobs.. we don't need 20-30 more guilds in there creating more because they think they can. what are they going to do? knock vindi's hitpoints in half and make him slowable because guilds can't do him because they don't have a mage with mod rod2? They shouldn;t be doing the encounter in the first damned place.

I mean hell the same could be said about Complete Heal being able to provide essentially unlimited amount of HP..even with a 7500 point cap. and we all know people die because of a lack of HP, not a lack of mana.

Verant created these encounters 2 years ago that made CH rotations the norm and made mod rods the norm for mages..

Mages have been bitching about how boring rodding is since they were invented. Now these mages have a new role on raids - dealing damage as well as rodding. I can only assume the mages complaining about this are the biggest retards in the game.

I guess now we find out who's interested in actually playing ther class and who just wants to click a few buttons and collect their phat lewt.

any person who thinks this change is going to make mages not be a fuckin rod whore is the retard. The ONLY way to make that happen is to remove the damned spell completely from the game.. which would i rather do? stand in one spot droping them to the ground before the battle and nuking during? or running around targetting cleric_01 because /target keeps telling me they are out of range and now i have to go find their ass.. whose gonna have time to nuke with that constant bullshit. yes i want to change targets 10 times in a fight because i simply have nothng better to do.. now throw a little lag in there and its a big ole fuckfest.

i'd just as soon they remove them from the game completely.. would suit me just fine.. They introduce spells and abilities with no forsight whatsoever.. design 2 expansions with those abilities. you can bet the mobs won't be retuned till long after PooP, but the nerf will go in next weeks patch. it shouldn't take a rocketscientist to go hmmm a group of 6 wizards with MB > then any kunark mob.. Nah our players wouldn;t be that greedy and take advantage of that situation.. how naive are these people that develope this crap?

So we go from 10 minute preps because we can get to full mana after buffs easily with mod rods for a 30 minute fight.. or we get to sit on our asses for 30 minutes buffing and medding before the fight that now lasts 10 minutes. 40 minutes is 40 minutes.. i'd at least rather be fighting the 30 minutes then sitting on my ass watching a blue bar fill up.

-Ajran

Valgul · Post by **Valgul** » October 9, 2002, 2:57 pm

The CH nerf is very relevent to any enchanter to dire charms high end mobs in velious or luclin. I would regularly solo the see invis arch with a dire charmed giant. Have a cleric to CH when the giant gets low. If those giants have 15K HP, then 2 CHs are needed to be at full health.

But, then again, this could be a nerf to the Dire Charming crowd.

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » October 9, 2002, 3:13 pm

Valgul, you must charm a greeny cus Ive never had to team w/ a cleric in kael (solo'ing is normally done alone too) Although I dont go there nor do I use a DC pet unless we are after a main target in Kael.
I find DC to be more of a toy than something beneficial in the *high end* part of the game, or atleast in Luclin.
Anyhow, I am assuming the said *nerf* has more to do with high end encounters and a lvl 30 something cleric that can be used in a CH-Rot.
Having low lvl clerics doing the same thing as a lvl 60 cleric and an unlimited mana supply via Mod Rods takes the challenge out.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 9, 2002, 3:14 pm

if they are 15k mobs, 2 CHs were required regardless to get to full health.

1 for 10k, 1 for 5k.

i would hazard to guess that dire charm soloing was not even a whisper of a thought in regards to tuning CH. this is specifically about healing tanks in boss mob fights. if dire charm soloing is collateral damage (minor impact at best to its effificacy), big deal.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » October 9, 2002, 3:18 pm

All the mod rod nerf does is change mages from summoning many rods at the beginning or before a fight to summoning many rods during the fight. They want mages to be able to put out damage during a battle, but, as Ajran said, they just made it even more difficult to do so.

VeeshanVault

Important Changes to EQ... Nerfs Inside!

Important Changes to EQ... Nerfs Inside!

The Other Nerf

Mod Rods Definatly, Monk Defense kinda, the rest..who cares?

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VI

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