Gill Netting (Commercial Salmon on the Columbia)

[Canelek]

There is a damn good reason that gill netting is banned in most states (maybe all but OR?). I have no problem at all with commercial trolling for salmon/tuna/swordfish/whatever, but netting every fish that gets caught is just a terrible waste of natural resource, considering the majority of fish that are supposed to be released(Steelhead for one), I would assume, would be horribly mangled or killed by the nets.

I am not talking about the Native American part of this, that is a whole other subject that I will not touch on.

I just really hate to see this 'stripmining' of what used to be an unparrelled fishery--now with the excess of damns and continued gill netting, sportfishermen get screwed and many animals are needlessly slaughtered...just ain't right.

Disclaimer: I am no expert on this by any means, but my argument seems at least vaguely logical....well, to me.


----------------------------------------------------------

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
Contact: Ann Snyder, 503-947-6010 - Toll-free within Oregon: 800-720-6339 (ODFW)
Internet: http://www.dfw.state.or.us Fax: (503) 947-6009


For Immediate Release Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Summer season commercial and sport fisheries announced by Columbia River Compact agencies

SALEM - The Columbia River Compact agencies of Oregon and Washington announced today the commercial fishing seasons:

Non-Indian commercial fishing periods will take place Wednesday, June 30, 6 a.m. - 6 p.m. (12 hours), and Friday, July 2, 6 a.m. - 6 p.m. (12 hours), from the mouth of the Columbia River upstream to the Longview Bridge. Sanctuaries will be in effect at Grays River, Big Creek, Gnat Creek and Elokomin.

Allowed gear will be a single wall floater gill net with a 4-1/2-inch maximum mesh size and a net length not to exceed 175 fathoms. All sockeye, all adipose fin-clipped chinook and coho, and all shad and sturgeon may be retained and sold. Any non-adipose fin-clipped chinook and coho, and any steelhead must be released immediately.

The Treaty Indian commercial salmon fishery will take place from 6 a.m. Wednesday, June 30, to 6 p.m. Friday, July 2 (60 hours) in all of Zone 6. All standard sanctuaries will be in effect, with the exception that there will be no Spring Creek sanctuary.

There is no mesh size restriction for this fishery. All sockeye, chinook, steelhead, coho, shad, walleye and carp may be retained and sold. Sturgeon may not be sold, but sturgeon between 4 and 5 feet in length in The Dalles and John Day pools may be kept for subsistence use, and sturgeon 45-60 inches in length in the Bonneville pool also may be kept for subsistence use.

Oregon and Washington also approved a non-Indian sport fishery for sockeye in the mainstem Columbia River from June 30 through September 30, 2004, from the Tongue Point Rocky Point line upstream to the Highway 395 bridge at Pasco, Wash.

A teleconference compact hearing set for today at 3 p.m. will review the recreational fishery downstream from the Wauna powerlines.

The Compact's July meeting is set for 10 a.m. Thursday, July 29, at the Cowlitz County PUD, 961 12th Ave., Longview, Wash. The meeting will be to review salmon, steelhead, and sturgeon stock status, and consider non-Indian commercial fishing seasons in the mainstem Columbia River and select areas.

An August hearing has been scheduled for 10 a.m. Friday, August 20, at the Columbia River Intertribal Fisheries Enforcement Office located at 4270 Westcliff Dr., Hood River, Ore., to review salmon, steelhead and sturgeon stock status, and consider treaty Indian and non-Indian commercial fishing seasons in the Columbia River.

Recorded sport fishery updates and action notices can be accessed by calling 503-657-2000, Ext. 392.

Recorded commercial fishery updates and action notices can be accessed by calling 503-657-2000, Ext. 391.

Joint staff reports, fact sheets, and Columbia River action notices are
available at:
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/Inf ... Index.html

###



Information and Education Division
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
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[Kylere]

Man, I am really of mixed minds on this, so I will let my stepdaughter speak, "Fish are Friends, not Food!"

[Canelek]

Man, I am really of mixed minds on this, so I will let my stepdaughter speak, "Fish are Friends, not Food!"

=) Excellent! There is certainly a large faction up here that chants something similar around college campuses.

[Pherr the Dorf]

Depends how it's done. Alaska allows Gill netting, even on the copper river (in fact all copper river salmon are gill netted) but restrict the openings to 2 days a week, meaning 5 days a week no fish at all are caught except for what the bears eat. I will add, Alaska has great fisheries and the copper river runs are bigger every year, so they are doin something right.

[Canelek]

Problem is...here when the 'netters are allowed, the river is raped. Steelies and Kokanee are decimated.....Chinook are taken by the boatload with no check on regulation... nasty subject up here..

[Zaelath]

OTOH there's research that seems to indicate selective fishing is worse (size limits and the like..)

[Canelek]

Problem is...ALL sizes are taken with gillnetting... sport anglers are stuck with stockers that can only grow a certain amount......

For instance, the state record King was caught a long ass time ago(1930s?)!!

[Funkmasterr]

Maybe you won't touch on it, but I will... How about the Indians I see when I go up to the vermillion river that are drunk off their asses, throwing their liquor bottles in the lake, and get to net as many fish as they damn well please. They disgust me, and the commercial end of it is just as bad, but it least its not degenerate indians that collect their income from a casino they don't even step foot in, net their fish and throw their trash into the environment their culture "cherishes" so much.

[Keverian FireCry]

Basing your opinion of an entire culture on a few disrespectful drunks. Brilliant

[Funkmasterr]

No sir. I live in minnesota - there is a large amount of native americans here, I have met or run into a lot of them in similar situations, and have come across maybe a half a dozen that didn't fall at least loosely into that category. Another part of my point is I honestly don't give half a shit what happened to them or whose land this was before we came here. It's in the past, and for no reason should they get all this land, and a monopoly on the casino business because of it.. Next thing you know we are going to be handing out 40 acres and a mule again.

[Canelek]

Not really fair to the native americans here, I didn't want to hit on that, as I stated....

Yes, there is a problem with native salmon being sold from pickup trucks along the Columbia at certain times of the year, but that is not really the issue here...

[Funkmasterr]

As the item you have mentioned is definately a problem that needs to be addressed, think of this also. Even in places where netting doesn't occur, there is beginning to be a shortage of fish that are of keeping size. This is due to extreme over fishing of most of our lakes and rivers.

Yes there are limits to what you are supposed to take but a combination of those not being enforced/people worming their way around them, and the limits just not being low enough. The netting is only a part of the whole picture

[kyoukan]

No sir. I live in minnesota - there is a large amount of native americans here, I have met or run into a lot of them in similar situations, and have come across maybe a half a dozen that didn't fall at least loosely into that category. Another part of my point is I honestly don't give half a shit what happened to them or whose land this was before we came here. It's in the past, and for no reason should they get all this land, and a monopoly on the casino business because of it.. Next thing you know we are going to be handing out 40 acres and a mule again.

no joking. bunch of drunk chugs. why can't I open my own casino?!

[Pherr the Dorf]

My point I guess was that gill netting is not necessarily the problem, the openings are. If Alaska can do it, why can't the rest of the western USA. I know your feelings and I respect them, but look at Alaska as a model to fix the problem. I will add, you'd have a bitch of a time using anything but Gill Nets on the Copper, it's a brutal river (hence why the salmon have such a high fat content, to get up there you better be a strong fucking fish) but Alaska allows Gill Nets everywhere with very selective openings on their rivers and thier fisheries are just gtting stronger, the fishermen only work a couple days a week and can bring in, pardon the pun, a boatload of cash those couple days and then hit the ocean a few days a week for rockfish or halibut and the like. This allows the fishermen to be able to support themselves, and small fishermen are a dying breed in most places. If you think they are bad, watch how a factory trawler rapes the ocean from top to bottom.

[Zaelath]

No sir. I live in minnesota - there is a large amount of native americans here, I have met or run into a lot of them in similar situations, and have come across maybe a half a dozen that didn't fall at least loosely into that category. Another part of my point is I honestly don't give half a shit what happened to them or whose land this was before we came here. It's in the past, and for no reason should they get all this land, and a monopoly on the casino business because of it.. Next thing you know we are going to be handing out 40 acres and a mule again.

no joking. bunch of drunk chugs. why can't I open my own casino?!

Only part that I'd be concerned w/ the casinos is that the seed money always comes from "business", and we can take an educated guess what kind of business. It's a shame the government didn't provide the seed money.. it's not like you would ever consider a casino a bad credit risk for the government compared to some of the other crap they spend money on..

[Kylere]

No sir. I live in minnesota - there is a large amount of native americans here, I have met or run into a lot of them in similar situations, and have come across maybe a half a dozen that didn't fall at least loosely into that category. Another part of my point is I honestly don't give half a shit what happened to them or whose land this was before we came here. It's in the past, and for no reason should they get all this land, and a monopoly on the casino business because of it.. Next thing you know we are going to be handing out 40 acres and a mule again.

You racist, redneck, pathetic piece of shit. You are such a scumbag that words fail me.

[Cartalas]

Im not defending Funk one bit, But living in Minnesota there are some serious problems with the Indian relationship here.

1. Casinos are growing at a rate you would not believe, the tribal members at one casino are netting 100k a month ( which is all fine and dandy more power to them) and thats 100k per member. But the surrounding cities have to provide them Fire,Sewer,water,police,and road services up to the reservation property. The plus side to all this is Mystic Lake Casino provides 450 jobs to the local community the down side is the large tax burden the surronding communities must share to support this.


2. Netting fish, I know when I go up to Mille Lacs where my cabin is there is a a stiff slot limit on walleye (16 – 18 inch keeper slot with only one fish over 30 inches allowed ), Now this would not be a problem if The tribal quota will remain 100,000 pounds, which will be allocated among eight Ojibwe bands but the tribal quota last year alone topped 480,000 pounds.

[Kylere]

Well Cart, you can always move.

I wish Flint had 10 Casinos ran by Native Americans, hell even 20. You cannot begrudge them using the land as they see fit, if it was white people you would be ranting about them being good Americans. As for fishing rights, suck it up white boy, or go back to Europe.

[Canelek]

Hmm, looks like I opened up a wee can of worms here. Well, my point is that gill netting in and of itself, regardless of whether for commercial or non-commercial use is wasteful and, at least on the Columbia, has a nasty impact on native salmon and steelies.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

You worthless fuckstain. If the land had not been stolen from them in the first place, your ass would be sitting in some French shithole sipping wine and having cheese logs stuffed up your ass by your boyfriend.

This land was pristine when the Native Americans were the only ones here. It was the Eurotrash that has fucked up the ecology in the U.S.

So they are making money from casinos? Big fucking deal. How much casino money would it take to buy back the billions of acres they lost? how much would it cost to pay for all the Native Americans that were euthanized over the 50 years or so that the U.S. government was paying bounties for scalps? They are not forcing you dumbasses to blow your wads in their casinos....and you white dipshits are the ones who can't control your gambling.

[Cartalas]

Well Cart, you can always move.

I wish Flint had 10 Casinos ran by Native Americans, hell even 20. You cannot begrudge them using the land as they see fit, if it was white people you would be ranting about them being good Americans. As for fishing rights, suck it up white boy, or go back to Europe.

Kylere I dont care either way, One I dont gamble and two I sport fish so I release them anyway I was just pointing out the problems.

[Funkmasterr]

You racist, redneck, pathetic piece of shit. You are such a scumbag that words fail me.

First off there chief, I am about as far from a redneck or racist as possible, I have an extremely diverse group of friends and relatives. That is not the point, the point is that I think the native americans are far far far over compensated and if you don't agree you are either

1) native american
2) a complete moron
3) some kind of activist (which fits into #2)


Cartalas put it well - 480,000 pounds ? come on. Thats nearly as bad or worse than a lot of commercial fishing companies I am willing to bet.

P.S. For the totally worthless , invalid point made above - I release all that I do catch fishing as well, and I haven't been to a casino in nearly 2 years.

edit- to kilmol I believe.
I don't care - whatever happened to them happened so long ago that no one living has anything to do with it. Its like african americans that still bitch about slavery when its been over for god knows how long, and no one living had anything to do with it, but yeah - lets keep repaying them indefinately, whatever.

[Cartalas]

You worthless fuckstain. If the land had not been stolen from them in the first place, your ass would be sitting in some French shithole sipping wine and having cheese logs stuffed up your ass by your boyfriend.

This land was pristine when the Native Americans were the only ones here. It was the Eurotrash that has fucked up the ecology in the U.S.

So they are making money from casinos? Big fucking deal. How much casino money would it take to buy back the billions of acres they lost? how much would it cost to pay for all the Native Americans that were euthanized over the 50 years or so that the U.S. government was paying bounties for scalps? They are not forcing you dumbasses to blow your wads in their casinos....and you white dipshits are the ones who can't control your gambling.

Just curious is anyone alive that took the land from the indians?
Not saying breaking treaties over the course of decades is right but why is one race singled out. Why are we not paying the African Americans for the slavery we put them through? Why are we not allowing the Asian Americans special rights because of the prison camps we put them into during WW2?

Kilmoll you are 100% correct if you dont like the casinos dont go you would be amazed at how many people bitch about it by day but head out there by night.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I must have missed something in my history classes. When exactly did the slaves or Asian Americans own all the land in the U.S?

[Cartalas]

I must have missed something in my history classes. When exactly did the slaves or Asian Americans own all the land in the U.S?

Ok fair enough when did the Indians not lose a war?

[vn_Tanc]

but yeah - lets keep repaying them indefinately, whatever

This implies you repaid them in the first place.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I must have missed something in my history classes. When exactly did the slaves or Asian Americans own all the land in the U.S?

Ok fair enough when did the Indians not lose a war?

The Seminole Indians to this day have still never surrendered.

[Sylvus]

My world history is pretty shoddy, and I really don't mean to slight the Native Americans (hell, I'm even part Native American but unlike some of the other folks who like to play that card as they see fit I don't really identify myself as one) but...

How do the actions of the "Americans" vs. the Native Americans compare to previous civilizations that have conquered others? I'm just wondering if someone with a better understanding of world history would care to draw a parallel between that and, say, the Romans in Europe or the Mongols in Asia or any of the numerous times in the past that a similar action has happened? Can parallels be drawn? How were those different than what has happened in America?

I'm sincerely interested in hearing peoples' opinions, I've never really thought about it before.

[Cartalas]

I must have missed something in my history classes. When exactly did the slaves or Asian Americans own all the land in the U.S?

Ok fair enough when did the Indians not lose a war?

The Seminole Indians to this day have still never surrendered.

Still does not mean they didnt lose. But thats interesting I never knew that.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Techincally, the U.S. government entered into a treaty with Mexico. In that treaty that agreed to protect Mexico. The Mexicans and Apaches were always having little tiffs.....but Geronimo and his White Mountain Apaches were causing so much trouble after the Mexicans killed his family that they asked the U.S. to adhere to the treaty and kill Indians.

So basically, under this treaty with Mexico, the U.S. government was paying and being paid bounties for killing any Native American...whether it was man, woman, or child. All they needed was a scalp to be paid. (Which is where the Native Americans got the practice from...and scalping is something they are solely associated with). The Native Americans were interested in nothing more than living in peace and in several cases were tricked into situations where they were then slaughtered.

The big difference between the Romans or Mongols invading a place...you knew they were coming and you could fight. With the Euro-Americans, they lived here for years before they decided to just go ahead and kill everyone off and take the land. If they had shown an aggressive behavior like Rome when they came here, they would have been destroyed by the Native Americans before ever gaining a foothold....much less be invited in and helped to survive.

[Cartalas]

Techincally, the U.S. government entered into a treaty with Mexico. In that treaty that agreed to protect Mexico. The Mexicans and Apaches were always having little tiffs.....but Geronimo and his White Mountain Apaches were causing so much trouble after the Mexicans killed his family that they asked the U.S. to adhere to the treaty and kill Indians.

So basically, under this treaty with Mexico, the U.S. government was paying and being paid bounties for killing any Native American...whether it was man, woman, or child. All they needed was a scalp to be paid. (Which is where the Native Americans got the practice from...and scalping is something they are solely associated with). The Native Americans were interested in nothing more than living in peace and in several cases were tricked into situations where they were then slaughtered.

The big difference between the Romans or Mongols invading a place...you knew they were coming and you could fight. With the Euro-Americans, they lived here for years before they decided to just go ahead and kill everyone off and take the land. If they had shown an aggressive behavior like Rome when they came here, they would have been destroyed by the Native Americans before ever gaining a foothold....much less be invited in and helped to survive.

Nice info Kilmoll thank you.

[Kylere]

Funkmaster you are a racist piece of shit, no ifs and or buts about it.

The only thing you are right about is that I am American Indian. But I have no casino money, I think fishing is a dumbfuck hobby, and I like in the white mans world sucessfully. I do not drink, hell I even quit smoking.

I suppose everytime you attack a group in a racist manner, those who object are of that group, a complete moron, or some kind of activist. Sounds like typical KKK thought to me. You are such fucking scum I would not even waste time kicking your backwards ass.

[kyoukan]

the sense of entitlement from indigenous americans is pretty crazy. they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and piss it all away, and then complain for more, claiming their land was stolen from them by the white man. if I'm not mistaken, most of the continent was purchased from various tribes who "owned" it for trivialities like mirrors and cooking pots. the rest of it was taken away from them via conquest. native americans should consider themselves lucky that it was the english and the french that did it, because any other countries would have merely exterminated them down to the last man and woman. the spanish were in the process of doing just that when they were kicked off.

[Kylere]

Kyoukan whatever made you so anti indian must have been pretty shitty. Otherwise you would be ranting against the ignorant racism demonstrated on this thread. But you cannot hold an entire race at fault for whatever happened to you. But I understand, you only defend selected minorities, that seems to be an inherited rait of the ultra left and ultra right, selective memory and selective arguments, ever addressing all angles of any issue. Of course if you were consistant and open to all angles, you would be moderate.

55.7 million acres of land held in trust by the United States for American Indians, Indian tribes, and Alaska Natives. There are 562 federal recognized tribal governments in the United States. The US is 2379975219 acres in size, therefore Indians get 2% of the land most of which is desert or junk land the whites did not want. Just because your Euro forefathers did not think to screw them on local rights and wildlife usage and resource rights does not mean they got a great deal. National Forests alone are three times larger than all the reservation space combined.

[kyoukan]

so? what is your point? the land the indians didn't sell for worthless junk was taken away from them by right of conquest. you weren't alive when it happened and neither was I, so why should I pay income tax money so you can benefit from it? frankly natives should be getting fuck all from me and if they want to survive they can get a fucking job like the rest of us.

the longer native americans complain and think that anglos "owe" them for "stealing" all of their land, the longer it's going to take for them to assimilate into american culture. indians lost all their fucking land and they aren't getting it back. and frankly they are lucky that they are allowed to live on the land they have now for free and do anything they want with it. it would have been a hell of a lot easier to just kill them all. take a look at central and south america. there were just as many, if not more indigenous people on that continent. now the only ones left are "lost" tribes deep in jungles where the spanish didn't bother going to look for them.

now how exactly is that me attacking native americans? because I don't think natives should be treated specially and given their own land for free and allowed to live off my income tax money that makes me hate natives? I must hate everyone then.

[Sylvus]

The question is, why do they deserve any of the land? Again, I'm not saying they do or don't deserve it, I'm asking why you think they do? As was said, they sold a lot of the land or lost it through conquest. How is that different than any of the land that any people have ever taken over or bought from it's original owners? And how is saying that, or asking that, racist?

If you sold me your house, even if it was for a pittance compared to what it was appraised at, and then still wanted to come in and take a shit in the toilet whenever you pleased, or wanted to set up camp in the basement, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself.

[Cartalas]

Must of us are as much native americans as any indian in this country.

[Kylere]

Umm the land was awarded as part of negotiated settlements most of which occured over 100 years ago, now the Indians found a use for them, and you bunch of Eurotrash motherfuckers are mad.

It is not like they want more land, they just want to use what is rightfully theirs as allowed by law, quit your damn bitching.

As a clear disclaimer, I have gotten NADA from being an Native American other than classes when i was a kid, I can legally ask for and receive all kinds of bennies, but I do not feel entitled because while I may have had great greats march in the Trail of Tears, I personally did not.

But you rednecks all pissed because they do what they want on land that is legally theirs piss me the fuck off.

[noel]

Just out of curiosity Kylere, are you 100% native American?

[Cartalas]

Umm the land was awarded as part of negotiated settlements most of which occured over 100 years ago, now the Indians found a use for them, and you bunch of Eurotrash motherfuckers are mad.

It is not like they want more land, they just want to use what is rightfully theirs as allowed by law, quit your damn bitching.

As a clear disclaimer, I have gotten NADA from being an Native American other than classes when i was a kid, I can legally ask for and receive all kinds of bennies, but I do not feel entitled because while I may have had great greats march in the Trail of Tears, I personally did not.

But you rednecks all pissed because they do what they want on land that is legally theirs piss me the fuck off.

Ok Fair enough Kylere they can be a soverign nation fine more power to them.

Now they must apply for a work visa, oh and dont forget to pay road tax when they leave the reservation. Not to mention as a nation they can build their own Sewer,water and trash disposal oh and schools if they are going to send their kids to public school dont forget to pay tuition. Now for the wear and tear on the roads I suggest the US put upp toll booths ant the reservation entrance or hell open a state run casino.

[Dregor Thule]

Just out of curiosity Kylere, are you 100% native American?

From his picture I'd say he has much eurotrash blood running through his hypocritical veins.

[Bubba Grizz]

I cry bullshit. I am just as much an American as any Indian living today. I was born here too. Doesn't matter where my ancestors came from. This is home.

[Arilain]

In my state and surrounding states I believe there is only 1 maybe 2 reservations. Mainly cause the US back in the 1800's either killed or removed Indians from this area (Andrew Jackson era).

I have no problem with them opening casinos on the land that they have. here is an example of a problem I have with it all. In North Louisiana there is a group of people that are petitoining to be a recognized American Indian tribe. Only half of these people can show inrefutable proof that some distant ancestor was an Indian. Why are they doing this? Cause they want a casino.

Casinos are a good thing for Indian Reservations which historicly have been exploited by others not of American Indian ancestry. Outside the reservation they should follow the same rules that other people do.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Sylvus.....if you want to truly find out the answer to your question, I can point you to some in-depth reading.

Many Native Americans have very common last names. These were given to them during the foundation of the Dawes Roll by administrators and government employees. They would give the Indians the last names of their family or friends....and then said family or friends got title to said land. Millions of acres of what was due the Native Americans was outright stolen in this way.

That is not exactly pissing it all away. They did trade what was useless junk to you and me for many acres. Of course at that time, they had so much land that it would only be pennies an acre anyway. Sounds a lot like what we got Alaska for from Russia.

If they merely gave back the land stolen by crooked government politicians from the Dawes Act, you would be looking at having 3-4 less states in the Union.

As for the Spanish wiping out the Native Americans....I think you are a tad mistaken. They wiped them out through most of Mexico.....but the North American tribes were tearing up the Mexicans as they tried to do the same through what is now New Mexico, Arizona, etc. The Mexicans were the ones who were crying to the U.S. government for help.

[Canelek]

Bah! This was supposed to be about the fishies!

[Funkmasterr]

Ok, a couple of things.

1- cartalas, the minnesota government is in the process of making it legal and to put into process , yup you guessed it. state owned casino's.

Secondly, it's a strange day in my life, but I completely agree with kyoukan here. I don't hate indians (my aunt's lesbian partner is dakota I believe) I have a problem with them getting a free ride from us when we had nothing to do with what happened to them. Like I said before, it's the same thing as when hear african americans saying "the white man this, the white man that" no one living has jack shit to do with what happened to either group of them, so why are we held responsible?

Answer that question.

[Dregor Thule]

It's the price Americans pay for gaining the experience of what it's like to have to die for their countries independence. Am i rite, midnyte?!

[Niffoni]

For God's sake, will someone PLEASE think of the tuna!!

[Neroon]

My god, innocent fish are dying, and you all are arguing about indians!