Canadian Election: I just had to ask...

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 25, 2004, 4:02 am

I know most of the American and Europeans don't know/care that Canadians go to the polls on Monday, but I also know there are a fair few northerners here. To my mind its been a pretty wierd campaign: no real defining issue, but I think a lot of interest has been generated. A couple questions:

1) Do you plan on voting/have you voted in the advance polls?
2) What have been your impressions been of the leaders, the issues and the campaign?

I haven't voted yet but I will Monday morning.

To me the leaders have been a disappointment. Jack Layton has been a wingnut and IMO he defined his entire stance early in the campaign with his accusations that Paul Martin was personally responsible for homeless deaths because of the cuts Martin made as Finance Minister... sorry Jack, doesn't fly to me. Gilles Duceppe has played well to a lot of the media but as a Quebec sovereigntist is nothing but a traitor to me. Stephen Harper has looked like a non-entity and has appeared to have a little difficulty in getting some of his more radical members to STFU and be sensible. Paul Martin, has appeared to display the same old Liberal arrogance, but turns into a rabbit anytime someone whispers "Conservative Party" or "Harper". Not much to choose from. The Green Party, I haven't seen a lot from them but I do think it is in the infancy, as the Reform Party, and may be worth watching in the future.

The issues have been ranging but none has seemed to really take root to me. Health care has been touted, but no one has said anything new or much that grabs my attention (as an Albertan, the whole "Klein and Harper have a plan" thing doesn't scare me, I just want someone to fix the black hole that is our healthcare system). The Liberals and the NDP keep alluding to a "hidden agenda" on the part of the Conservatives, but have nothing to back them up or suggest it is anything other than a scare tactic. The only thing I can readily align myself with is the Governmental Integrity issue: the money wasted on the HRDC boondoggle and now the mess of the Sponsourship Scandal makes me trust the Liberal Party even less than I used to (my born-in-Alberta anti-Liberal bias grows

).

In the end, I live in a Conservative part of the country, and my Conservative MP is a pretty decent guy (Jason Kenney - used to be the head of the Canadian Tax Payers Federation, so he lines up nicely with my views on waste in spending/fiscal policies), so I will be supporting him.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » June 25, 2004, 4:16 am

I'll vote for the liberals for 4 reasons:
1) They have been very socially liberal the last few years.
2) They have been fiscally conservative for years. They cut everything, have been running a surplus' rather than deficits and have actually been paying down the national debt. This alone would make me consider them.
3) The conservatives would bury us in debt.
4) They stayed out of Iraq.

I don't even consider who my local representative is. Canadian MPs vote as their party tells them to.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 25, 2004, 4:33 am

Haven't decided yet, but I'm voting. I may just vote Green so they can get that one extra votes worth of funding for the next election. NDP need to get their heads out of the clouds. I look at Laytons platform and his promises and all I see is unrealistic pledges that would suck us dry to try and keep. I'm pretty sick of the Liberal government actually, and even though I thought I'd like Martin I'm almost hating him more than Chretien. Harper I actually like the most, but don't like what the CP could possibly stand for and what they'd do to social programs.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » June 25, 2004, 8:56 am

I will not be voting for the PC because of the following - their plans for the Kyoto, their stance on gay issues and abortion. Plus Harper just fucking irks me to no end.

I will not be voting liberal because of the general clusterfuck of a mess they've made of everything in the past 12 years.
(The fact that the liberal candidate in my area is David McGuinty, the brother of the Ontario Prime Minister that fucking broke his promises with his last provincial budget by increasing taxes and instituting a Health Care Premium charge ON TOP of those taxes doesn't help either.)

I'd like to see that NDP get a turn at bat simply because they can't do much worse that those other clowns have done. I also find myself associating with their platform much more than with the other parties.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 25, 2004, 9:11 am

I always vote. I was planning on voting for the Green party as well for the same reasons as Dregor too.

Im just hoping for anyone but Harper.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » June 25, 2004, 9:32 am

I'll be voting for the Caribou, he has a good stance on issues that I feel directly impact the country.
Issues concerning Mountie Uniform coloUrs and proper education in their schools, using "eh" is very very important. I feel that all Canadian citizens and Caribou deserve a chance to learn how to read and ice fish and play hockey. The Caribou's stance on public housing was also very important in my decision making process, Free Igloo's for all. You can't beat that.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » June 25, 2004, 9:56 am

Sylvos wrote:I'll be voting for the Caribou, he has a good stance on issues that I feel directly impact the country.
Issues concerning Mountie Uniform coloUrs and proper education in their schools, using "eh" is very very important. I feel that all Canadian citizens and Caribou deserve a chance to learn how to read and ice fish and play hockey. The Caribou's stance on public housing was also very important in my decision making process, Free Igloo's for all. You can't beat that.

Are you going to put on your ski pants and your toboggan before you head out into the cold northern weather to vote? Maybe you should build up your strength to face the cold with a hearty stickdog!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 9:57 am

It is so nice the Queen allows you to hold elections

/ducks

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » June 25, 2004, 9:58 am

It is so nice that all our election issues are domestic issues.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 10:05 am

Good one Forthe!

Of course since you know you have us to spend the money and effort you all are too busy swilling Molsons and watching hockey to do anything about...

LOL

But seriously, I think your choices suck as bad as ours do, of course none of ours are French Seperatists heh

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 25, 2004, 10:07 am

Only people in Quebec can vote for the Bloc party (french seperatist as you put it)

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » June 25, 2004, 10:13 am

haha just trying to blend in with the Canadian Special Forces Arc!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 10:14 am

Really Lynks? ahh you mean in direct election, but the rest of you can add that to your list of platform issues, and I am sure it is one of the things they ask canadian politicians. Does it influence your voting patterns, which way they feel on the issue?

I am honestly curious because succession movements of any size are rare in countries that vote, and everyone is aware what happened in the US when it came down to it.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » June 25, 2004, 10:18 am

Kylere wrote:Really Lynks? ahh you mean in direct election, but the rest of you can add that to your list of platform issues, and I am sure it is one of the things they ask canadian politicians. Does it influence your voting patterns, which way they feel on the issue?

I am honestly curious because succession movements of any size are rare in countries that vote, and everyone is aware what happened in the US when it came down to it.

Please go have a read up on Scotland.

Your point is still valid, but there is modern precedence for Quebec becoming independent.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 10:21 am

archeiron wrote:
Kylere wrote:Really Lynks? ahh you mean in direct election, but the rest of you can add that to your list of platform issues, and I am sure it is one of the things they ask canadian politicians. Does it influence your voting patterns, which way they feel on the issue?

I am honestly curious because succession movements of any size are rare in countries that vote, and everyone is aware what happened in the US when it came down to it.
Please go have a read up on Scotland. Your point is still valid, but there is modern precedence for Quebec becoming independent.

Already have Arch, which is why I said "are rare in countries that vote" not has only happened to the US heh. Hell Ireland deserves independance still and does not have it.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 25, 2004, 6:52 pm

I haven't made up my mind yet. I actually like Stephen Harper quite a bit on a personal level, but I'm not sure if I agree with enough of his politics to vote conservative. I don't like Paul Martin _at all_ and I think he is a career toadie that somehow ended up in a leadership positition because Cretien ruined everyone else. Voting Green seems okay because I would like to get some votes for them, and they aren't as radical as they used to be. I won't even consider a Quebec based party unless their main platform was "kill everyone in Quebec"

It's Canadian politics though, so it's more of a matter of holding my nose and voting for the party I personally feel will steal from me the least to make themselves wealthier. That certainly isn't the fucking liberals.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 25, 2004, 7:40 pm

Yep. I think I'll vote Green and just tell my folks I went Conservative to keep my mother from hounding my ass.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » June 26, 2004, 10:03 am

kyoukan wrote:I haven't made up my mind yet. I actually like Stephen Harper quite a bit on a personal level, but I'm not sure if I agree with enough of his politics to vote conservative. I don't like Paul Martin _at all_ and I think he is a career toadie that somehow ended up in a leadership positition because Cretien ruined everyone else. Voting Green seems okay because I would like to get some votes for them, and they aren't as radical as they used to be. I won't even consider a Quebec based party unless their main platform was "kill everyone in Quebec"

It's Canadian politics though, so it's more of a matter of holding my nose and voting for the party I personally feel will steal from me the least to make themselves wealthier. That certainly isn't the fucking liberals.

Curious to know what you think about Layton and the NDP

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » June 26, 2004, 11:50 am

Harper is a fucking radical. Period. He's going to severly fuck up Canada if he gets in.

Layton, well, I'd vote NDP if it wasn't a wasted vote. This guy seems genuine, yellow just isn't Canada's color.

Liberals. What can I say, they are sneaky crooks out to make a buck. They are slime. But they are slime that are saving us money and paying off debt while still keeping the services and policies that we as Canadians expect and love. I am voting for the slime.

Jug

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 26, 2004, 6:38 pm

I like Layton and the NDP. I think he has a lot of class and integrity as well as being a pretty smart guy. I also like peanut butter and chocolate ice cream, but I'm not going to waste my vote on either.

I miss Joe Clark a lot. I would vote conservative if he was still in control of the party. How he let that Harper took over I'll never know. Clark learned a lot from his disaster as PM in 1979 and has been a straight shooter ever since. Harper is barely a step up from Stockwell Day, only he's a lot smarter.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » June 26, 2004, 8:26 pm

I am curious about something which I get fucked up hearsay on, having lived in Wisconsin. Everyone outside of Qebec seems to hate Qebec. What is the major motivation in keeping them from succession?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 26, 2004, 8:43 pm

economic stability?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 26, 2004, 9:02 pm

Not entirely sure on this, but if Quebec seprates, they expect Canada to support them economically.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 26, 2004, 9:08 pm

Bascially yes. They want shared currency, special priveledges, etc, etc, but they just don't want the rest of Canada to be able to say how they should run their province. It's generally a 50/50 split in Quebec on who wants to seperate and who doesn't. There's a lot of english speaking Quebecers and the definitely don't want change. Personally, I think Quebec already gets more priveldges than most of the other provinces, and it's just some greedy bitches that are trying to seperate. It won't happen tho.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 26, 2004, 9:12 pm

there is also a slight geographical issue of CUTTING THE COUNTRY IN HALF.

the maritime provinces already feel enough like red-headed stepchildren without cutting off access to them.

quebec feels that they can seperate and still reap fed money. I don't know exactly what it is about the french that makes them so fucking stupid almost across the board, but that is what they think. their entire economy is based around whining to ottawa and getting more money and jobs from the fed. they also feel that their worthless, burned out culture would have a better chance of staying alive if they were independent, even though without the 100's of billions of dollars in federal money spent to keep it on life support the last 50 years it already would have been long gone.

quebec sovereigntists are traitors and scum of the worst kind. although I'm still torn on the issue because I would like nothing more than to see those ungrateful maple syrup sucking parasites the fuck away from my income tax money.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 26, 2004, 10:09 pm

Other reasons why we hate them is if you don't speak french in their province, they end up treating you like shit.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 26, 2004, 10:43 pm

I think Kyoukan can be safely marked as anti seperation.

LOL

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 26, 2004, 10:43 pm

Move the Quebec peeps to my proposed new Israel along the Alaska/Canada border then let them do what they wish.

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » June 27, 2004, 9:40 am

The cool French in Quebec escaped there years ago and headed down to South Louisiana. That way we still have corrupt politics, a feeling that we shouldn't have to pay for anything, and a "we don't really care" attitude. We would be all for succession especially from the Southern United States however we are constantly too drunk to care. =/

All joking aside. I didn't really know that there was that much of a problem with Quebec and politics up there. I stand educated.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 1, 2004, 1:44 am

Oh no. It's Scott.
What are you two doing helping these Americans?! Don't you know America thinks it owns Canada along with the rest of the world?!
You're a dick, Scott!
You're a dick! And by helping Americans, you're just as smelly as they are! Now I'm going to get you!
[exits a house with a fish in his left hand and a pole in his right] Not a-hire, Scott!
Who the hell are you?!
I'm Steve the Newfoudlander. And you'er on Newfoundland property now! Get off before I have you arrested!
Ugh! This isn't over! Not by a long shot! I'll fix you. I'll fix all of you!! [leaves in a huff. Steve draws closer to the group]
Woo, that was a close call. Thank you, kind Newfie!
God-damnit, we need to get to the new Prime Minister! NOW!
Oh yeah, the Prime Minister, eh? He sure has screwed up things for Newfoundland. Life just hasn't been the same since he made sodomy illegal.
Well, come with us! Maybe you can ask him to take his sodomy ban away.
Can we just get going, please?
Yeah, sure, except there's just one problem.
What?
You folks are goin' the wrong way.
What?? But I thought there was one road in Canada.
Yeah. And you all went the wrong direction on it.
Ohh, that's right. Ottawa is that way. [points behind the group]
Of course. Ottawa left, Newfoundland right!
[grimacing] Oh no!
[glaring at Rick] How could you be so stupid!
There's no way we can go all the way back. We'll never make it now!
It's okay, boys. The power is inside us to get to Ottawa! We can wish ourselves there!
Ah yes, let's wish ourselves there. [the three Canadians close their eyes and wish real hard]
[peeks with his left eye] Is it working?
Oh, God-damnit! Well I warned you Kyle! I told you if I missed Christmas we were gonna throw down! [puts up his fists] Well it's on! We're gonna have it our RIGHT NOW! [grabs Kyle by the collar]
[now in his boat at the end of a dock] Of course, we could always take my boat, eh?
Oh yes! On the river we could travel to Ottawa in no time!
Well come on! [everyone hops into the boat]
Okay, next stop, the new Prime Minister. [the boat leaves the dock and goes on its way]
Do you think we can still make it in time?
We'd better, Kyle. Or you're dead.
[The Parliament building, dawn. Steve and the rest of the party pull up to the small dock at one end of the grounds]
Here we are at the Parliament buildin'.
Ze Prime Minister is inside.
[hops off the boat and runs towards Parliament] Well come on, let's hurry! It's almost Christmas! [the rest of the group follows]
[The Parliament building, entrance. Kyle knocks on the heavy wooden doors. A wooden panel opens up to reveal a window. A doorman looks out through it]
Yes?
We need to see the new Prime Minister.
Ha! Impossible! The new Prime Minister isn't seeing anybody! [slams the window shut]
Oh well, zo much for zat. [turns around and slowly walks away]
Yeah, we gave it our best, but our best wasn't good enough, eh? [joins the Mime]
No. No!! [knocks on the door again. Steve and the Mime turn around]
[opens his window again] Yes?
Please, sir. I traveled a long way to get here. He's the only person who can help me.
[a big smug] The Prime Minister isn't here. He's in China on official business. So you might as well go home. Good-bye!
[turns around and walks off slowly] Then that's it. I'm... I'm never going to get my brother back. [sits down on the steps farther away from the door]
And... I'm not going to get any Christmas presents. [sits on the steps]
And... I'm not gonna have a Christmas adventure. [sits between the two of them]
(And I'm not gonna have a ...) [his voice trails off and he joins the others on the steps. They all cry]
[begins to cry with the boys] Oh please! Please stop crying.
[through his tears] I'm gonna kill you, Kyle.
All right all right, I was lying. The Prime Minister IS here.
[turns around] Really? [the boys stand and approach the doors]
Yes yes. Come in. [opens the large wooden doors, and the group enters.]
[The Parliament building, inside. The group walks down a long hallway and approach a large sanctum with three fire pits. Two small ones burn before and on each side of the huge one, which sits at the center and has a holograph of the Prime Minister hovering over it]
I am the Prime Minister of Canada. What do you guys want?
[after a few moments, steps forth] Sir, you recently passed a new law allowing parents who have given their children up for adoption to change their minds. My little brother was-
Not so fast! [soon appears with the Gintses]
Ike!
Kyle!
Prime Minister, these are the child's Canadian parents! Their Canadian blood pumps through his veins! Would you send him back to America with those world-hungry scum?!
Please, sir. I came because I don't think Ike belongs here. Family isn't about whose blood you have in you, family is about the people who cared about you and took care of you. We're not the same blood, but I love my little brother. We've taken care of him because he needed us to, and that makes us more family than anything. [Harry and Elise look at each other]
That is a great speech, guy. But the answer is no! All of my new laws will stay in effect forever!
Haha, you lose, Americans!
Then, I suppose us mounties will never get our horses.
And we won't get our wine.
And we can't perform sodomy, eh?
But why are you making such strange laws??
I SAID GO! [a blast from his holographic eyes incinerates Kenny]
(Gah!)
Oh my God, they've killed Kenny!
[walks over to the charred remains] You... bastards! [brushes off a bit of Kenny from his jacket] Wha, what the hell is wrong with you?? What kind of Prime Minister bases his decisions on hatred? [Stan dusts himself off] And, and takes away mounties' horses? [Stan notices a purple curtain nearby and walks over to it] And French people's wine? What the hell kind of Prime Minister are you, anyway?!
I am the Prime Minister of Canada. [as he says this, Stan pulls the curtain back and Saddam Hussein appears behnd it, cramped behind a console] I can do whatever I- [notices his cover is blown] Uh oh. Uh, don't mind that guy hiding in the spider hole, he's just my friend.
[the other members of the group gather in, as well as other people nearby] What the hell??
Hey, that looks like Saddam Hussein!
Saddam Hussein?? Naw, relax, baby. I'm not him.
Zat explains everything! Za new Prime Minister was Saddam Hussein, once again trying to take over our beloved Canada like he did before.
Saddam Hussein?
He was fooling us?
Get him! [the soldiers quickly seize him and haul him away]
Ahh, don't shoot. I want to negotiate. Hey, relax! [the crowd pounces on him and tear him apart] Gah!
Wait a minute. This means all the Prime Minister's new laws are null and void. We can have our horses back!
And we can drink our wine.
And I can sodomize me boys again

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » July 7, 2004, 5:01 pm

I didn't vote actually. I almost always do but:
- Liberals have been in power for too long and have been flat out proven to be corrupt. That whole sponsorship scandel really irked me. Especially knowing Paul Martin's background was as finance minister.

- With the PCs, there were a ton of great provincial people to vote for but the PC leader Stephen Harper scared the crap out of me, not to mention some of the "endearing" comments he's made about Newfoundlanders (*sarcasim*). It would be like voting for Bush.
- I'm with Wulf, Jack Layton is a wingnut.

So in the end I decided the best vote I could cast would be NDP just to prevent a majority Government and that just didn't seem like a good reason to me. So I didn't vote at all.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » July 7, 2004, 5:24 pm

I would like nothing more than to see those ungrateful maple syrup sucking parasites the fuck away from my income tax money.

Is one of the top 3 "flames" Ive seen on this board lol.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 7, 2004, 6:46 pm

Kyou's flame sums up exactly how a lot of western Canadians feel about Quebec though

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » July 8, 2004, 11:21 am

Forthe wrote:I'll vote for the liberals for 4 reasons:
1) They have been very socially liberal the last few years.
2) They have been fiscally conservative for years. They cut everything, have been running a surplus' rather than deficits and have actually been paying down the national debt. This alone would make me consider them.
3) The conservatives would bury us in debt.
4) They stayed out of Iraq.

I don't even consider who my local representative is. Canadian MPs vote as their party tells them to.

Yeah the vote is over and the damnable Lieberals got in again albeit with a minority government.

1. Very socially liberal = spending at unprecedented levels
2. Fiscally conservative? Adscam 250 million missing.
Gun Registry supposed to cost 100 million iirc now going to cost billions
Another scam that I don't recall the name of atm but another 1 billion missing or unaccounted for.
3. All of the parties are going to add to the debt
4. Yeah while pissing off our largest trade partner and closest friend on the planet.

All very good reasons Forthe.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 8, 2004, 12:39 pm

Atokal wrote:
Forthe wrote:I'll vote for the liberals for 4 reasons:
1) They have been very socially liberal the last few years.
2) They have been fiscally conservative for years. They cut everything, have been running a surplus' rather than deficits and have actually been paying down the national debt. This alone would make me consider them.
3) The conservatives would bury us in debt.
4) They stayed out of Iraq.

I don't even consider who my local representative is. Canadian MPs vote as their party tells them to.
Yeah the vote is over and the damnable Lieberals got in again albeit with a minority government.

1. Very socially liberal = spending at unprecedented levels
2. Fiscally conservative? Adscam 250 million missing.
Gun Registry supposed to cost 100 million iirc now going to cost billions
Another scam that I don't recall the name of atm but another 1 billion missing or unaccounted for.
3. All of the parties are going to add to the debt
4. Yeah while pissing off our largest trade partner and closest friend on the planet.

All very good reasons Forthe.

Not pissing off there closest trade partner when the americans vote that conservative asshole out of office

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » July 9, 2004, 6:22 am

Atokal wrote:
Forthe wrote: 4) They stayed out of Iraq.

4. Yeah while pissing off our largest trade partner and closest friend on the planet.

Most Canadians polled did not agree with the War on Iraq - so heaven forbid the government actually did something the people wanted!

As for their scandals, I'll grant you the liberals had quite a few going on, but Forthe is right in regards to how they have managed their money (excluding the scandals) and even with the scandals have managed to keep a decent reign on their spending and paying off debt.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » July 9, 2004, 7:51 am

Atokal wrote: Yeah the vote is over and the damnable Lieberals got in again albeit with a minority government.

1. Very socially liberal = spending at unprecedented levels (you high?)
2. Fiscally conservative? Adscam 250 million missing.
Gun Registry supposed to cost 100 million iirc now going to cost billions
Another scam that I don't recall the name of atm but another 1 billion missing or unaccounted for. (We are paying over 3 billion less a year in interest on national debt)
3. All of the parties are going to add to the debt (The libs have been paying down the debt. When this stops my support stops)
4. Yeah while pissing off our largest trade partner and closest friend on the planet. (If your friend goes temporarily insane and sets himself on fire I think he should welcome being pissed on. It is also more productive than supporting him by setting yourself on fire)

All very good reasons Forthe.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 9, 2004, 3:30 pm

Another scam that I don't recall the name of atm but another 1 billion missing or unaccounted for.

The scandal Atokal is referring to is the HRDC shit. It actually came to light before the last election, cost $1 billion+ and still Liberal party supporters stuck by that stunned cunt Jane Stewart, who was the minister responsible. A big reason this one never got the air play is the Liberals proved their mastery at playing the public by proposing the controversial (and quickly killed) bail out of Canadian NHL teams. Most people shit themselves over a proposed 70 million for the NHL, but didn't give a fuck about 1-3 billion.

Forthe you can sugar coat the Liberals on the deficit and debt, but you have to remember:

1) Lester Pearson and Pierre Trudeau CREATED the fucking thing. Brian Mulroney proved to be a massive traitor to fiscal conservatives by refusing to acknowledge it and adding to it. It was the noise raised by the "radicals" in the Reform party that raised awareness until Chretien and Martin "adopted" a policy to eliminate the deficit.
2) It was Joe Clark (i.e. the last minority parliament) who first proposed any type of spending cuts to curtail the deficit in his budget, but the Maritimes and Quebec screamed bloody murder, Joe lost a non-confidence vote, and we got 4 more years of that asshole Trudeau (think about this: 5 years of Trudeau spending and 10 of Mulroney's that could have been eliminated if people had been willing to admit a problem).
3) On a provincial level it has been Conservatives, not Liberal governments that have spearheaded elimination of deficits, led by Ralph Klein, who is much maligned outside Alberta and followed by Mike Harris. In fairness, Roy Romanow also balanced Saskatchewan's budget under the NDP, although he used tax increases instead of spending cuts.

In terms of the Liberal Party's relationship with the US, it was appalling under Chretien. When a cabinet minister (Boudria) can get away with his anti-American rhetoric and another MP (forget the bitch from Missasauga's name) can say "I hate those bastards" about our largest trading partner and closest neighbour, without any censure from the Prime Minister's officer, something is very wrong. Our "official stance" on Iraq, I think is laughable: as the US Ambassador said at one point, our destroyers in the region supporting " the War on Terror" are providing more support for the Iraq action than some of the countries that signed on (if we're there as a screen for the carriers, etc, you can't differentiate the missions they are flying). Don't get me wrong: I don't like what Bush did about Iraq but burying our heads in the sand about it does not help our own national interests.

But we can't forget Harper, like Day and Manning before, has a hidden agenda!!! No one has been able to figure out what the fuck it is in 4 elections (i.e. 16 years), but its there! The Liberals say so and they would never lie!!!