A flag question

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 24, 2004, 6:24 pm

I am sure somebody can answer me here.. is there a law for how to use flags? When to take them down? How long to flag on half mast after a former president dies?

Post by **Sylvus** » June 24, 2004, 6:26 pm

That's an interesting question, I noticed a couple flags still at half mast (or half staff or whatever you call it) today when I was going to lunch. How long ago did Reagan die, it was more than two weeks ago wasn't it?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 24, 2004, 6:27 pm

there is a protocol not a law...typically a period of mourning is declared 1 week in regan's case...and yeah a lot of folks here are still flying em at half mast....though that seems in he case of my neighbors to be just disregard...its funny how people will follow protcols like that when it suits em then go apeshit if someone sets it on fire...and talk about how it merits respect....

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 24, 2004, 6:27 pm

Yeah he died June 5th. Just curious since it seems like some people still flag at half mast while others do not.. then again around here, who knows..

Edit: Also annoys me to see how little care people take of their flags.. I wouldn't have a flag up all the time (it cheapens it imho), but I sure wouldn't leave them to wear and tear like a lot of people do.

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » June 24, 2004, 6:35 pm

I thought that the protocol for a president or ex-president is 30 days, but I could be wrong.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » June 24, 2004, 6:38 pm

what does upsidedown mean again?
Forgot when i saw that

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 24, 2004, 6:41 pm

XunilTlatoani wrote:I thought that the protocol for a president or ex-president is 30 days, but I could be wrong.

Ahh I was under the impression that the period was declared...

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » June 24, 2004, 6:46 pm

The American Legion guys who live at the retirement home where I work said that the traditional period for Presidents is 30 days. That was, of course, in the past, so most people just do it as long as they feel like now.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 24, 2004, 6:54 pm

Kaldaur wrote:The American Legion guys who live at the retirement home where I work said that the traditional period for Presidents is 30 days. That was, of course, in the past, so most people just do it as long as they feel like now.

Ah they would likely know...

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 24, 2004, 7:00 pm

Xzion wrote:what does upsidedown mean again?
Forgot when i saw that

An upside-down flag is considered a distress signal.

Mawafu · Post by **Mawafu** » June 24, 2004, 7:14 pm

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 24, 2004, 7:31 pm

Thank you and wow.. the regulations are way different than ours back home. Can't fly the flag at half mast for deaths in family etc? That boggles my mind..

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 24, 2004, 10:33 pm

Kelshara, the US Flag traditions have come from the same offbeat silly sources everyone else got there ideas from, just expressed differently. The codes and honors between flags represents a good deal of the courtesy we all could wish was exhibited between nations.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 24, 2004, 10:53 pm

American flag must fly above all other flags you are flying...unless it is the texas state flag, which may be flown at the same level.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 24, 2004, 10:55 pm

Truant wrote:American flag must fly above all other flags you are flying...unless it is the texas state flag, which may be flown at the same level.

not true sir! fallacious even according to the betsy ross center!...

Clearly that one was thought up in texas...

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 24, 2004, 11:57 pm

Kylere wrote:Kelshara, the US Flag traditions have come from the same offbeat silly sources everyone else got there ideas from, just expressed differently. The codes and honors between flags represents a good deal of the courtesy we all could wish was exhibited between nations.

erh not sure why you aimed that at me.. We use our flag way differently in Norway than you do in the US. Completely differently. Doesn't mean we don't show respect for other nations' flags though.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 25, 2004, 12:04 am

the norweigan flag made a great substitute for a red carpet when the nazis came around on their vacations.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 25, 2004, 12:12 am

Awww come on kyou you can do better than that! Use some of the glorious intelligence of yours to come up with insults that might actually be.. insulting!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 25, 2004, 12:15 am

oh come on that was totally insulting.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 12:15 am

Kelshara wrote:
Kylere wrote:Kelshara, the US Flag traditions have come from the same offbeat silly sources everyone else got there ideas from, just expressed differently. The codes and honors between flags represents a good deal of the courtesy we all could wish was exhibited between nations.
erh not sure why you aimed that at me.. We use our flag way differently in Norway than you do in the US. Completely differently. Doesn't mean we don't show respect for other nations' flags though.

Not aimed at you other than from the fact that earlier you said,

Kelshara wrote: Thank you and wow.. the regulations are way different than ours back home. Can't fly the flag at half mast for deaths in family etc? That boggles my mind..

So I pointed out that you had recognized differences. But now that I think about it, perhaps our antiroyalty views as a nation had a lot to do with the reason there is no allowance for familes.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 12:16 am

Gotta agree with Kyoukan on the insulting factor.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 25, 2004, 12:41 am

Kylere wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
Kylere wrote:Kelshara, the US Flag traditions have come from the same offbeat silly sources everyone else got there ideas from, just expressed differently. The codes and honors between flags represents a good deal of the courtesy we all could wish was exhibited between nations.
erh not sure why you aimed that at me.. We use our flag way differently in Norway than you do in the US. Completely differently. Doesn't mean we don't show respect for other nations' flags though.
Not aimed at you other than from the fact that earlier you said,
Kelshara wrote: Thank you and wow.. the regulations are way different than ours back home. Can't fly the flag at half mast for deaths in family etc? That boggles my mind..
So I pointed out that you had recognized differences. But now that I think about it, perhaps our antiroyalty views as a nation had a lot to do with the reason there is no allowance for familes.

Though in point of fact it is often done for others...just not nationally...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 25, 2004, 4:13 am

I always thought it interesting as to why the U.S. doesn't dip it's flag in the olympics when passing by the main grandstands:

The Parade of Flags was introduced at the IVth Olympic Games, London 1908, and King Edward VII himself was the Head of State to whom all flags were dipped in salute as the athletes marched in. That is, all flags except the flag of the USA. To the fury of King Edward, the USA shot-putter Ralph Rose refused to pay him respect by dipping the Stars & Stripes.

One reason given for this is that the flag of the United States is lowered for no mortal man. And after all, a king is merely a mortal! And that to this day, the Stars & Stripes is the only flag that is not dipped when the Head of State is saluted during the Parade of Flags. However, poetic as this explanation may be, it's not clear whether such a rule for the USA flag existed in 1908. The rule is part of the first USA Flag Code, but that Flag Code wasn't drawn up until 1923. On the other hand, in the early 20th century, veterans of the Union Army in the American Civil War waged a campaign against what they considered indignities to the Stars & Stripes, and the rule against dipping the American flag may have originated from that campaign.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » June 25, 2004, 8:58 am

Winnow wrote:I always thought it interesting as to why the U.S. doesn't dip it's flag in the olympics when passing by the main grandstands:

The Parade of Flags was introduced at the IVth Olympic Games, London 1908, and King Edward VII himself was the Head of State to whom all flags were dipped in salute as the athletes marched in. That is, all flags except the flag of the USA. To the fury of King Edward, the USA shot-putter Ralph Rose refused to pay him respect by dipping the Stars & Stripes.

One reason given for this is that the flag of the United States is lowered for no mortal man. And after all, a king is merely a mortal! And that to this day, the Stars & Stripes is the only flag that is not dipped when the Head of State is saluted during the Parade of Flags. However, poetic as this explanation may be, it's not clear whether such a rule for the USA flag existed in 1908. The rule is part of the first USA Flag Code, but that Flag Code wasn't drawn up until 1923. On the other hand, in the early 20th century, veterans of the Union Army in the American Civil War waged a campaign against what they considered indignities to the Stars & Stripes, and the rule against dipping the American flag may have originated from that campaign.

All this time I thought it was because the US was just fucking arrogant.

Fredonia Coldheart · Post by **Fredonia Coldheart** » June 25, 2004, 10:22 am

Xzion wrote:what does upsidedown mean again?
Forgot when i saw that

It is meant as a distress signal.

According to the American Legion, the flag should be flown for 30 days for the death of the president or former president. 10 days for the vice president, chief justice, and the speaker of the house.

Also, when a flag has become worn and is no longer going to be used, it is suppose to be burned! I guess Congress has never read up on the proper disposal of the American flag.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 10:37 am

That is misleading Fredonia, you are not supposed to burn it while frothing at the mouth, there is a difference between burning the physical symbol of the United States as an act of destruction, and retiring one that is too care worn.

I do not think anyone should have their flag burned. It is just wrong.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 25, 2004, 12:27 pm

Kylere wrote:Gotta agree with Kyoukan on the insulting factor.

eh I know my WWII history well enough to not be insulted by the feebleminded.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 25, 2004, 12:37 pm

Kelshara wrote:
Kylere wrote:Gotta agree with Kyoukan on the insulting factor.
eh I know my WWII history well enough to not be insulted by the feebleminded.

Insults are rarely real, they are usually just lightly based on reality.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 25, 2004, 6:55 pm

I doubt they teach norweigan children that their grandfathers were nazi lapdogs, so yeah.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 25, 2004, 7:30 pm

Kind of interesting actually, that was the last time we used the death penalty in Norway. Now it has been removed even from war situations.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 25, 2004, 7:31 pm

kyoukan wrote:I doubt they teach norweigan children that their grandfathers were nazi lapdogs, so yeah.

Jesus Christ do you have no heart? Now you pick on someones heritage!! God you are nothing but a racist.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 25, 2004, 8:30 pm

Eh it is partial truth, some Norwegians did support and work for the Germans. The majority did not though. My grandfather (who was probably the best person I will ever meet) worked for the resistance though.. lots of fun stuff was stored on his barn

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 25, 2004, 11:27 pm

Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:I doubt they teach norweigan children that their grandfathers were nazi lapdogs, so yeah.
Jesus Christ do you have no heart? Now you pick on someones heritage!! God you are nothing but a racist.

We should change the history books to accomodate Cartalas.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » June 25, 2004, 11:33 pm

Arborealus wrote:
Truant wrote:American flag must fly above all other flags you are flying...unless it is the texas state flag, which may be flown at the same level.

not true sir! fallacious even according to the betsy ross center!...

Clearly that one was thought up in texas...

I encourage you to hop over the border, sir, and observe state flags of Texas flying on separate masts from the US flag, and at the same height. If it wasn't proper, I don't think the state government would do it, would they?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 25, 2004, 11:39 pm

Arundel Pajo wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Truant wrote:American flag must fly above all other flags you are flying...unless it is the texas state flag, which may be flown at the same level.

not true sir! fallacious even according to the betsy ross center!...

Clearly that one was thought up in texas...
I encourage you to hop over the border, sir, and observe state flags of Texas flying on separate masts from the US flag, and at the same height. If it wasn't proper, I don't think the state government would do it, would they?

When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag's right.

All States flags may at flown equal height to the US Flag, Just not above or to it's right...Sorry Texas...

Feel free to head over here and see the Louisiana flag also flown at the same height...

Garrethe · Post by **Garrethe** » June 25, 2004, 11:53 pm

I never posted on VV before, but I decided to add an interesting fact I picked up. The flag of the U.S.A has to be folded in a paper football shape to be considered authentic. Is that the same for any other countries?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 26, 2004, 12:05 am

Garrethe wrote:I never posted on VV before, but I decided to add an interesting fact I picked up. The flag of the U.S.A has to be folded in a paper football shape to be considered authentic. Is that the same for any other countries?

Jackass!

And the 13 folds represent the 13 colonies and supposedly the triangle is remniscent of the tri-corner hats of the Revolutionary Army and Navy...That may be historically a bit dubious though...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 26, 2004, 12:17 am

Arborealus wrote:
Garrethe wrote:I never posted on VV before, but I decided to add an interesting fact I picked up. The flag of the U.S.A has to be folded in a paper football shape to be considered authentic. Is that the same for any other countries?
Jackass!

And the 13 folds represent the 13 colonies and supposedly the triangle is remniscent of the tri-corner hats of the Revolutionary Army and Navy...That may be historically a bit dubious though...

Incorrect! Flag folding is a form of origami. Each country's flag is folded into a different shape. Canada's, for example, folds into the shape of a chicken! Denmark's flag rolls, more than folds, into the shape of a doobie. I'm still researching other unique shapes!

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » June 26, 2004, 12:23 am

Winnow wrote:
Arborealus wrote:
Garrethe wrote:I never posted on VV before, but I decided to add an interesting fact I picked up. The flag of the U.S.A has to be folded in a paper football shape to be considered authentic. Is that the same for any other countries?
Jackass!

And the 13 folds represent the 13 colonies and supposedly the triangle is remniscent of the tri-corner hats of the Revolutionary Army and Navy...That may be historically a bit dubious though...
Incorrect! Flag folding is a form of origami. Each country's flag is folded into a different shape. Canada's, for example, folds into the shape of a chicken! Denmark's flag rolls, more than folds, into the shape of a doobie. I'm still researching other unique shapes!

Sweden's flag is folded into a cone (to hold the shrimp salad).

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 26, 2004, 1:22 am

canadians don't fold their flag into anything. it actually scares me how flag-centric you people are. its just a fucking piece of cloth; it's not an artificial substitute for true patriotism.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » June 26, 2004, 2:25 am

I would understand the importance of a flag that actually had historical significance. For instance, I would understand anger towards someone who burnt the original copy of the Bill of Rights, however I would not give a shit if someone burnt a piece of printer paper with the text of the Bill of Rights on it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 26, 2004, 3:47 am

No dip for you!

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » June 26, 2004, 7:20 am

Garrethe wrote:I never posted on VV before, but I decided to add an interesting fact I picked up. The flag of the U.S.A has to be folded in a paper football shape to be considered authentic. Is that the same for any other countries?

Canada's flag is red-white-red with a red maple leaf in the center. That is about the extent of my knowledge of the Canadian Flag.

Outside of government buildings, verteran organizations, memorial sites, parks and sporting events (hockey!) you won't see the flag flying around here. It is very atypical to see someone flying the flag on their home.

I do not own a flag.

I do not fold a flag.

I do not have the flag represented on any piece of clothing.

I rarely see the Canadian flag on TV.

I do not have the flag in or on my vehicle. Sometimes I'll see a Canadian flag bumper sticker, I guess they were travelling.

I do have the flag on my luggage but then again many americans do also (bastards).

Karae · Post by **Karae** » June 26, 2004, 8:10 am

I've been flying my flag at quarter mast since Bush was awarded victory in an election he didn't really win by Supreme Court decision to show my respect after the death of democracy. I don't think this is a common convention though.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 26, 2004, 9:28 am

I think it all has to do with pride, whether on a national or state level. I have lived in other states, and I never saw the state flag flying more or used in advertising more than here in Texas. It actually feels better knowing that there IS something there. Sometimes in other states you basically forget you have a state government unless they tax you.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 26, 2004, 11:51 am

The cloth of the flag has no more value than the paper of a Bible or a Koran, the flag however is a living symbol of those who have gone before and their sacrifices to make a nation great.

I see the Canadian Flag all the bloody time, the Canadian National Railroad people send trains through Michigan all the time, and half have the flag, and the company name, half haf the flag, company name and then everything dup'd in french.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 26, 2004, 12:29 pm

Karae wrote:I've been flying my flag at quarter mast since Bush was awarded victory in an election he didn't really win by Supreme Court decision to show my respect after the death of democracy. I don't think this is a common convention though.

Jesus Christ get over it.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » June 26, 2004, 1:13 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Karae wrote:I've been flying my flag at quarter mast since Bush was awarded victory in an election he didn't really win by Supreme Court decision to show my respect after the death of democracy. I don't think this is a common convention though.

Jesus Christ get over it.

Hopefully, we will all "get over it" in November.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 26, 2004, 2:23 pm

Forthe wrote: I do not own a flag.

I do not fold a flag.

I do not have the flag represented on any piece of clothing.

I rarely see the Canadian flag on TV.

I do not have the flag in or on my vehicle. Sometimes I'll see a Canadian flag bumper sticker, I guess they were travelling.

I do have the flag on my luggage but then again many americans do also (bastards).

Jeeze Forthe! Get with the program!

Cell Phone

For your main "wheels" er Tracks : )

For those jamborees when there's no American TV on:

Stealing our american culture to promote your flag!

Wannabee Canadian Rednecks : )

Oh my!

Looks like canadians have their flag all over the place as well! : )