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Kylere
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Post by Kylere »

Ye gods! No one in their right mind wants to make crack illegal, or so I thought. I will agree with the legalization of marijuana, but not of heroin.

Cutting marijuana to a regulated item like tobacco and alcohol would cut expenses for law enforcement while generating revenue via taxation.
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Post by Lynks »

After 30+ minutes of reading on the subject on legalization of drugs, I will take back what I mostly said. I do see that it can be a good thing and would probably be the best solution.

However, I do not think it will have such a great impact like some of you think it would have (ie, 50% reduction in crime). But overall, I do see the benefits of it.

And FYI, I do enjoy a good toke once in a blue moon. I was never totally opposed to every illegal drug on the market, just the really fucked up ones.
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Post by Arborealus »

Lynks wrote:After 30+ minutes of reading on the subject on legalization of drugs, I will take back what I mostly said. I do see that it can be a good thing and would probably be the best solution.

However, I do not think it will have such a great impact like some of you think it would have (ie, 50% reduction in crime). But overall, I do see the benefits of it.

And FYI, I do enjoy a good toke once in a blue moon. I was never totally opposed to every illegal drug on the market, just the really fucked up ones.
I abstained totally for the last 20 years or so...I have no agenda to get something I want out of it...I just realize that that is the only way to remove the violence from it...I don't know that a 50% reduction in crime rates would happen...But it would certainly reduce the the huge bulk of the violence associated with drugs to nil....

I think it would also probably reduce the probability of a lot of kids becoming criminals...as in a lot of cases their initial legal problems are drug related and their incarceration and identification as a criminal there leads to further association etc...
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Post by Zaelath »

Not to mention draconian mandatory sentencing combined with unenforceable drug prohibition means that someone can end up in jail for "life" for being caught with a joint.

There's very little data from countries with legalised heroin to make any case that use would increase significantly, but it's quite apparent that if the supply is clean and regulated people won't have to be breaking into your house to fun their habit as often. Underage girls won't end up as prostitutes to support the habit that lets them cope with the degredation they suffer as prostitutes.

Maintaining the prohibition is largely popular because it predominantly affects inner-city black youth and lets you keep a rediculous proportion of blacks in jail compared to the population. Which also lets people hold to their racist notions that blacks are inherently bad because so many of them end up in jail.

Overdoses are caused by irregularity of supply. Most herion is heavily "cut" with other substances which reduces it's potency, when someone gets a bag of heroin they use the same amount as normal, they don't have a testing lab to check it's purity. In fact, terminal cancer patients in the UK are allowed to use heroin freely as a pain medication, but it's a commercially produced supply of a reliable grade.

In fact, the health secretary in the UK has often said that the focus on a drug like ecstacy that kills perhaps a dozen people a year in the UK is a folly considering that alcohol kills around 100 per day. It is indeed one drug that I would expect to rise in use if it was legal considering the culture and public perception surrounding it, but the money that is spent on attempting to enforce the prohibition isn't having any lasting effect.

BTW, nice derail... =)
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Post by Mplor »

I've always passed up those mystery pills floating around parties and clubs. However, if Ecstasy came with a Pfizer imprimatur, a recommended dosage, and a ten-page pamphlet on side-effects, I would try it in a second. And if I liked it, I'd use regularly it as directed and enjoy every moment.

I think we should legalize and regulate most drugs. A rise in prescription abuse would partly offset the vanishing illegal drug problem, but it would be a helluva lot better than what we have now.
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Post by Kylere »

What is interesting about this is a majority of net savy people under the age of 50 all see the logic in altering the drug war.

But neither the Democrats or Republicans have a clue.
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Post by archeiron »

Kylere wrote:What is interesting about this is a majority of net savy people under the age of 50 all see the logic in altering the drug war.

But neither the Democrats or Republicans have a clue.
I am the product of a youth raised in Holland and England, where the drug culture is more mainstream than here. It is this past experience that gives me my current point of view on this subject. I do not expect that I would have reached this point had I stayed in the US. As a result, I do not find it odd that most politicians raised in the US would have an opposing view on the subject.

Interestingly enough, cocaine was nearly the aspirin of the 19th century. With that historical context in mind, it is somewhat odd that it so taboo now. Another interesting fact that was pointed out by a doctor friend of mine is that of all the drugs in the world that are seriously addictive only a handful can kill a serious addict if taken away: alcohol is one of those drugs, cocaine is not, and THC(cannabis) isn't even chemically addictive.

(EDIT: Changed wording when I noticed how poorly it read in Fredonia's quote)
Last edited by archeiron on June 25, 2004, 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fredonia Coldheart »

Zaelath wrote:Underage girls won't end up as prostitutes to support the habit that lets them cope with the degredation they suffer as prostitutes.
Which is a very good reason for also legalizing prostitution - for those over 18 of course. Regulate and tax it. Require regular health checkups for all prostitutes. It would get rid of most of the violence associated with it plus help stem the spread of diseases.
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Post by archeiron »

Fredonia Coldheart wrote:
Zaelath wrote:Underage girls won't end up as prostitutes to support the habit that lets them cope with the degredation they suffer as prostitutes.
Which is a very good reason for also legalizing prostitution - for those over 18 of course. Regulate and tax it. Require regular health checkups for all prostitutes. It would get rid of most of the violence associated with it plus help stem the spread of diseases.
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Post by Fredonia Coldheart »

archeiron wrote:Interestingly enough, cocaine was nearly the aspirin of the 19th century. With that historical context in mind, it is somewhat odd that it so taboo now.
Heh - that is why Coke got its name - it had cocaine in it when it was first introduced.
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Post by Asheran Mojomaster »

I've did plenty of different pills, weed, going to try coke sometime soon (not much, just a tiny bit), planning on doing shrooms ASAP since they are growing now, and I drink. I am 16. Do you have any clue how easy it is to get all this shit anyway? Legalizing all drugs would have NO impact on how easy \ hard it is to get it, only reduce the amount of crime involved with it.

I mean, I know of 2 people that have ever OD'd ever on any drug, one on shrooms, because he was an idiot and drank 1\3rd of a pitcher of shroomaid made with 51 shrooms, and one on prescription drugs because she got some prescribed, got addicted, and started taking more and more. Both survived, one of them would have never happened had his drug of choice been legal and regulated.

If all drugs were legal would he have drank that much shroomaid made with 51 shrooms? Nope, but he had no clue how much it would take to make him trip out, so he just decided to make sure he got enough.

Anyway, not sure if I have any point with this post because I am actually drunk as I type, but anyway, I think all drugs should be completely legal, and really the drinking \ weed age should be 16 as well (at least drinking \ weed, if not all drugs, but all drugs might be a bit much to open up at 16 since most 16 year olds arent too responsible with the amounts they take), would make teenager's, cop's, and to a point parent's lives easier (parents because of the fact that there is a much smaller chance of them having to go bail their kids out of jail for being caught with drugs or alcohol).
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Post by Karae »

Legalization and regulation of drugs would accomplish three things. First, it would increase the safety so-called illicit drugs. It would provide for the standardization of quality and composition of the drugs, removing the element of danger associated with untrained garage "scientists" mixing drugs with whatever they find in their pantry. Secondly, it would reduce, if not entirely remove, the criminal element associated with drugs. For one, we'd stop throwing people in jail who are just trying to get high. Drugs would also no longer be sold and trafficked by criminals. Finally, a point not previously discussed, it takes drugs from a huge financial burden for our country, as we spend billions of dollars a year in a pointless war against them, and turns them into a financial boon as we tax their sale.

There is no logical or rational argument againt the legalization of all drugs. If people want them, they're going to get them either way. Legalization won't increase usage, addiction, or deaths caused by.
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Post by archeiron »

Karae wrote:Legalization and regulation of drugs would accomplish three things. First, it would increase the safety so-called illicit drugs. It would provide for the standardization of quality and composition of the drugs, removing the element of danger associated with untrained garage "scientists" mixing drugs with whatever they find in their pantry. Secondly, it would reduce, if not entirely remove, the criminal element associated with drugs. For one, we'd stop throwing people in jail who are just trying to get high. Drugs would also no longer be sold and trafficked by criminals. Finally, a point not previously discussed, it takes drugs from a huge financial burden for our country, as we spend billions of dollars a year in a pointless war against them, and turns them into a financial boon as we tax their sale.

There is no logical or rational argument againt the legalization of all drugs. If people want them, they're going to get them either way. Legalization won't increase usage, addiction, or deaths caused by.
If the tobacco and alcohol industry is anything to go by, it would also create a enormous new market in America while opening up a huge new source of revenue for existing industries.
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Post by Voronwë »

money would continue to flow into our legitimate economy than have this massive black market sink. (yes some of it comes back in, but a lot of it leaves).
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Post by masteen »

Mplor wrote:I've always passed up those mystery pills floating around parties and clubs. However, if Ecstasy came with a Pfizer imprimatur, a recommended dosage, and a ten-page pamphlet on side-effects, I would try it in a second. And if I liked it, I'd use regularly it as directed and enjoy every moment.
You wouldn't need a ten page pamphlet. Product depletes seratonin levels. Have a nap tomorrow to compensate. Take with water and sushi :D
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Post by Voronwë »

product causes cell death in serotonergic neurons in primate test animals after a single dose that persists for at least 7 years.

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Post by Wulfran »

There is no logical or rational argument againt the legalization of all drugs.
But the bulk of the DEA would have to get real jobs!!!
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Post by masteen »

Voronwë wrote:product causes cell death in serotonergic neurons in primate test animals after a single dose that persists for at least 7 years.

i'll pass!
Those studies have been mostly debunked by other neurologists, including the EPA.
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Post by Winnow »

Pot and probably coke should be legal. Give people a choice of a downer or upper type drug.

The money saved on the drug war is only half of it. The government would make a ton more on legal sales of marijuana and cocaine. There's no difference between a drunk person, high person or coked up person...although the coked up person would probably drive the best!

You'd still have the same DUI laws no matter what the drug and sales would be heavily taxed and regulated just like alcohol and cigarrettes are today.

What's the big deal?
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