Larry Bird

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » June 15, 2004, 2:10 pm

How do you guys feel about the statement he made about the need for more "White" NBA superstars?

noel · Post by **noel** » June 15, 2004, 2:19 pm

I agree with what Jim Rome said about that comment... To paraphrase, he said:

The NBA doesn't need more white superstars, the NBA needs more superstars who are quality players and role models period.

White or black doesn't matter. There was no shortage of fans for Michael Jordan, and he was black. He was also well-spoken, mostly stayed out of trouble, and was an excellent basketball player.

In my opinion... players like Allen Iverson do nothing for the NBA's bottom line. Sure AI is fun to watch at times, but he doesn't work hard, doesn't like practice, doesn't set a good example for his teammates, isn't a leader, and for those reasons, he'll never have a ring on a team where he's the lone focal point of the offense.

I haven't gotten to watch the full Larry Bird interview yet... if anyone has linkage to video or a transcript of the full interview, I'd love to see it.

Post by **Sylvus** » June 15, 2004, 2:22 pm

Any link to the source for that, and is it entirely in context?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 15, 2004, 2:35 pm

If the NBA loses one more honky I'm going to stop watching.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 15, 2004, 2:52 pm

Best I could find on short notice...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 15, 2004, 2:53 pm

basically the NBA needs stars who don't (publically) get involved in womanizing, weed smoking, illegitimate children fathering, etc.

Michael Jordan had affairs and gambled and stuff, but he kept it quiet, and he managed his media image well.

"White America" will happily embrace a guy like JOrdan, and Kobe had all of that going in his favor as well until he thought some piece of ass would be worth more to him than hundreds of millions of dollars in endorsements over his lifetime.

i think what Bird said is true to a degree, a white superstar will get a lot of publicity, but the guy doesnt have to be wife, he just has to have a clean-cut image.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 15, 2004, 3:00 pm

I would more agree with Rome, but im not a basketball fan, so I probably wouldnt know whats good for basketball. If gangster life is the image basketball wants to stay with and it works, good for them.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 15, 2004, 3:03 pm

Voronwë wrote:i think what Bird said is true to a degree, a white superstar will get a lot of publicity, but the guy doesnt have to be wife, he just has to have a clean-cut image.

omg freudian slipzzzzzz

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » June 15, 2004, 4:17 pm

The drama over this is a bullshit double standard... fucking cry babies (not you guys :>) No one even cared when Isaiah Thomas said the same bullshit about Larry Bird. If any of you remember, he said that if Larry Bird were black, he'd only be a mediocre player. Frankly I agree (with Larry Bird). This has nothing to do with racism. It doesn't even need to be white players, it just needs to be players who don't come up right out of highschool with egos the size of mac fucking trucks.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » June 15, 2004, 4:21 pm

Trek wrote:I would more agree with Rome, but im not a basketball fan, so I probably wouldnt know whats good for basketball. If gangster life is the image basketball wants to stay with and it works, good for them.

It isn't working, no one watches anymore.. the finals so far have been the least watched finals in history... all these new players, and up and coming players just see this as an easy way to get paid millions, they couldn't care less about the game. Atleast we can still watch good basketball with college teams. (gogo u of a)

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 15, 2004, 4:43 pm

I agree with Rome as well...I heard him talk about this on his radio show the other week. Larry Bird was asked a direct question and he answered it honestly--period. People are making it out to be as if Bird said he thought there should be fewer black players.

It is bullshit and the idiots in the media are constantly up in arms about this kind of shit.

That being said, I am no big fan of basketball and really don't care if the sport takes a tumble.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » June 15, 2004, 4:50 pm

Stragi wrote:
Trek wrote:I would more agree with Rome, but im not a basketball fan, so I probably wouldnt know whats good for basketball. If gangster life is the image basketball wants to stay with and it works, good for them.
It isn't working, no one watches anymore.. the finals so far have been the least watched finals in history... all these new players, and up and coming players just see this as an easy way to get paid millions, they couldn't care less about the game. Atleast we can still watch good basketball with college teams. (gogo u of a)

Actually they are the highest rated finals since 3 years ago.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 15, 2004, 5:47 pm

Btw notice that he said more white AMERICAN superstars, not white players. Although I can understand a lot of people prefere to watch players who look the same as they do (I don't give a shit, I like to watch GOOD playes), I really don't see a huge difference between Nash, Stojakovich etc and an American born player.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » June 20, 2004, 1:47 pm

Stragi wrote:It isn't working, no one watches anymore.. the finals so far have been the least watched finals in history

Wrong. Xzibit went over most of that.

noel wrote:players like Allen Iverson do nothing for the NBA's bottom line. Sure AI is fun to watch at times, but he doesn't work hard, doesn't like practice, doesn't set a good example for his teammates, isn't a leader, and for those reasons, he'll never have a ring on a team where he's the lone focal point of the offense.

I disagree. To take it point by point:

but he doesn't work hard

I think just about any NBA player or coach he's ever faced will disagree with you.

doesn't like practice

Correct. The legitimate knock that leads to all the rest of the anti Iverson hype.

doesn't set a good example for his teammates

In some ways, certainly. Seeing a player who will feud with a coach, show up late, and skip practice occasionally does set a bad example. On the other hand, watching a 5'11, 160 lb man play through multiple injuries, drive into the giants in the lane, dive all over for loose balls, and expend every last bit of energy in his body is certainly a good example. I don't think that Jason Kidd beating his wife set a good example for his teammates. I don't think Kobe REFUSING TO SHOOT in a critical game in the regular season sets a good example for his teammates. I don't think Michael Jordan crushing Kwame Brown's psyche set a good example for his teammates. But somehow, when it's Allen Iverson, it's a big deal. When Kidd and Kobe and Jordan and anyone else fuck up or act like assholes, everyone looks the other way. I honestly feel that it's thinly veiled social racism, but that's a much longer discussion for another time.

isn't a leader

I disagree entirely. Think back to the '01 playoffs. The sixers were the only team to win a game against the Lakers. Iverson scored something like 45 points in that game. After being held in check through the latter stages of the game, allowing the Lakers to come back and put it into overtime, Iverson came back, nailing a three pointer in transition and then breaking Tyronn Lue's ankles and nailing a jumper to end the game. The series before that, his offense carried the sixers past the bucks, and before that, he won a one-on-one series against Vince Carter at the prime of his career. I'll give you Dikembe Mutombo, George Lynch, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie and Tyrone Hill. You pick any player in the NBA, and I really doubt that they would go farther than Iverson took them. Even in other seasons, Iverson's energy, effort, and passion tend to be infectious. Just like Ben Wallace inspires his teammates, Iverson inspires the sixers.

and for those reasons, he'll never have a ring on a team where he's the lone focal point of the offense.

No. He'll never have a ring on a team where he's the offense because he's FIVE FOOT ELEVEN and he weighs about as much as me. The only player who has taken a team to a championship (modern era) at that size is Isaiah Thomas. I would argue that Isaiah's supporting cast was far superior to Iverson's. I would further argue that, when Isaiah Thomas is really the only player comparable to you, you're doing pretty well.

There's a few things you need with Iverson to make a winning team. You need another guy who can drive to the basket and score. You need an athletic interior player who can block shots and disrupt the flow of a game. And you need a knockdown jumpshooter. Personally, I think the best way to do it would be to combine the first two roles into one person. How about this team:

Point: Chauncey Billups
Shooting: Allen Iverson
Small Forward: Kenny Thomas
Power Forward: Kenyon Martin
Center: Samuel Dalembert
With Eric Snow, Willie Green, Aaron McKie, maybe Josh Childress and some free agent big guy on the bench.

At this point, assembling such a team would be unfeasible. The sixers have way too much money tied up in Glenn Robinson, Derrick Coleman, Todd MaCulloch and others to consider acquiring Martin or Billups, especially after the Pistons won the championship and Billups' value increased drastically. The point isn't that this team could now be made, but that, with some smart management beforehand, it, or one similar to it, could have been made. Those players could all be made to fit together financially. You plug in an up-tempo transition system and you're golden. You have one of the best scorers in the league. You have two ballhawks up front who can create turnovers and transition opportunities. You have two big shot blockers in the back who can cover for the mistakes that will happen in the frontcourt. You have a capable scorer inside that Iverson can dump the ball too. You have a jump shooter who will force defenses to respect the perimeter. And you have a team full of high-energy hustle guys who will wear down opponents. That team would be a certain high-seed playoff team and a likely championship contender.

Sadly, when sixers management surrounds a guy like Iverson with slow, plodding players like Glenn Robinson, Derrick Coleman, Dikembe Mutombo, and even Eric Snow and Aaron McKie these days, you get a clusterfuck. Their talents are supremely unsuited for one another, and that (along with injuries and attrition) are why the team can't win anymore.

Anyway, this is very very long, rambling, and pointless, so I'm just going to end it now, sans conclusion.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 20, 2004, 2:06 pm

I agree completely.. I've always been a fan of Iverson due to the way he plays, his passion for the game and his energy.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » June 20, 2004, 9:04 pm

I really think that it has nothing to do w/ being black or white these days. I feel the problem a lot of the players have is relating w/ average game going folk. People may not care about black, but black w/ massive death tatoos running down their arms and backs certainly don't have an easy time relating to the (old time) average game goer. It's just gotten so polar. The NBA doesn't really even try and market itself to a white person any longer.

However, people will come to see drama. TV would love nothing more than to have noone else involved in the baseball playoffs than the red sox, cubs, giants(or dodgers), and yankees. People want to see the cubs win or the yankees to lose. People want to see the indestructible lakers self-destruct. That transcends the white/black issue imo. I mean seriously, NFL still has shitloads of people watching and tons of people go to see the yankees even though they don't start one single white person in the starting eight save Giambi.