Modern Republican presidents, Reagan on. I don't know how you can argue with her, it's the whole point of trickle-down economics. Tax cuts for the rich, then hope that they feel generous enough to give higher wages to the poor, which has never happened.Atokal wrote:Attributed to every Republican President that is debated here.
Ronald Reagan dead at 93
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Vetiria
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Pherr the Dorf
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First Strike
Star Wars
Arming UBL and Saddam
Arming Iran
Arming the death squads
Arming the drug dealers
The Origional Teflon President
1985 - US becomes debtor nation - 1st time since 1914
1986 - US fell to #2 export behind W. Germany / Japan is close 3rd
S and L crisis not uncovered until after he leaves, Cost - $500 billion
129 total judges
a. 12 women
b. 6 Hispanics
c. 1 black
Haiti
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Grenada (*chuckle*)
Star Wars
Arming UBL and Saddam
Arming Iran
Arming the death squads
Arming the drug dealers
The Origional Teflon President
1985 - US becomes debtor nation - 1st time since 1914
1986 - US fell to #2 export behind W. Germany / Japan is close 3rd
S and L crisis not uncovered until after he leaves, Cost - $500 billion
129 total judges
a. 12 women
b. 6 Hispanics
c. 1 black
Haiti
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Grenada (*chuckle*)
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government
Jefferson
Jefferson
Rest In Peace Ronald Reagan.
Although he was certainly not perfect, I have quite a bit of respect for Reagan. A lot of good came out of his administration. As always, no president is completely responsible for what occurs during their terms in office, but Reagan certainly had an impact. Inflation was terrible going into the 80s, it came under control. Marginal tax rates were cut, and rightly so. The top rates used to be close to 70 percent, in my opinion an utterly ridiculous number. Deregulation continued under Reagan. He also managed to slow the rate of regulations (not that all regulations are necessarily bad, but a fair number of them are, and are a substantial drag on the economy). He also managed to keep non-defense discretionary spending relatively flat.
As to how much he helped win the cold war, its hard to say. Certainly the Soviet Union basic economic problems were not created by him. Did his increased defense spending hasten its end (and help influence that that end was largely bloodless)? I think it probably had some impact. Without knowing how much impact, its hard to judge if the deficits were worthwhile. I am not a fan of deficits, but if the spending had a significant impact in the peaceful dissolution of the Soviet Union, then it was probably a bargain.
Reagan was also important in his communication of ideas. He was hardly the first, or the only person saying that for a great many problems government was not the solution, but part of the problem. But he was an eloquent speaker on the point, and reached a wider audience with it than virtually anyone else. Also although several here have talked about the demise of the Soviet Union being obvious, it wasn't at the time. Reagan however correctly predicted it.
Although as I said before, I didn't agree with everything he did. Still, In my opinion, the best president of my lifetime.
Although he was certainly not perfect, I have quite a bit of respect for Reagan. A lot of good came out of his administration. As always, no president is completely responsible for what occurs during their terms in office, but Reagan certainly had an impact. Inflation was terrible going into the 80s, it came under control. Marginal tax rates were cut, and rightly so. The top rates used to be close to 70 percent, in my opinion an utterly ridiculous number. Deregulation continued under Reagan. He also managed to slow the rate of regulations (not that all regulations are necessarily bad, but a fair number of them are, and are a substantial drag on the economy). He also managed to keep non-defense discretionary spending relatively flat.
As to how much he helped win the cold war, its hard to say. Certainly the Soviet Union basic economic problems were not created by him. Did his increased defense spending hasten its end (and help influence that that end was largely bloodless)? I think it probably had some impact. Without knowing how much impact, its hard to judge if the deficits were worthwhile. I am not a fan of deficits, but if the spending had a significant impact in the peaceful dissolution of the Soviet Union, then it was probably a bargain.
Reagan was also important in his communication of ideas. He was hardly the first, or the only person saying that for a great many problems government was not the solution, but part of the problem. But he was an eloquent speaker on the point, and reached a wider audience with it than virtually anyone else. Also although several here have talked about the demise of the Soviet Union being obvious, it wasn't at the time. Reagan however correctly predicted it.
Although as I said before, I didn't agree with everything he did. Still, In my opinion, the best president of my lifetime.
No nation was ever ruined by trade.
– Benjamin Franklin
– Benjamin Franklin
Some estimates place the cost of communism during the 20th centuries at nearly 100 million dead. Not to mention all of the poverty and oppresion it inflicted. I think that its attempted implementation has been a very very bad thing.Karae wrote:1) Communism is not a bad thing. It just doesn't work. Reagan had little to do with its fall - it would have failed without him.
No nation was ever ruined by trade.
– Benjamin Franklin
– Benjamin Franklin
He appointed the first woman to the US Supreme Court.
His economic policy turned the worst recession since the great depression into an economic boom that lasted an unprecedented 93 months. The same econmoic policies were never really changed after he left office and today there are more wealthy people than there were 25 years ago. So it's safe to say that some poor/middle class people did benefit.
After Carter's authorization to use military force to get the hostages turned into a disater (partly due to the neglect of the military) mant Americans did not want to see American troops over in the middle east. So Reagan initiated the arms for hostages program....good idea....bad judgement. The funneling of funds from that to the contras supposedly was done without the presidents knowledge. The President at the time had bills in place which gave the contras billions of dollars.(I can give a list of the senators and congressman who voted on it to anyone that asks. Would have posted it but it is huge)
Reagan modernized or military and made the USSR start to talk about arms control. It can be argued that he "won" the cold war, but in actually his name appears on a long list of presidents before him. Reagan did however hasten the collapse of the USSR. His military policies were no different than Teddy Roosevelt with the philosophy "Talk softly and carry a big stick."
Reagan was the first to address the growing trade imbalance that had arisen in the late 70's with Japan.
Gave more power to agencies such as the EPA, and started initiatives to curb pollution while still rebuilding businesses in the country.
Raised tarriffs and fought free trade in order to protect American jobs.
Fought the PMRC! This protected the freedom of speech in music. Reagan veto'd two bills that had stuff in them that would have banned certain lyrics in songs from being published.
I hated Reagan for the most part growing up to be honest. Now I realise that he was a good president. The culture of the 80's reflects the optimism that he gave the country and the innovations that came from that decade were largely due to our optimistic view on things. Love him or hate him he has passed on and deserves our respect.
His economic policy turned the worst recession since the great depression into an economic boom that lasted an unprecedented 93 months. The same econmoic policies were never really changed after he left office and today there are more wealthy people than there were 25 years ago. So it's safe to say that some poor/middle class people did benefit.
After Carter's authorization to use military force to get the hostages turned into a disater (partly due to the neglect of the military) mant Americans did not want to see American troops over in the middle east. So Reagan initiated the arms for hostages program....good idea....bad judgement. The funneling of funds from that to the contras supposedly was done without the presidents knowledge. The President at the time had bills in place which gave the contras billions of dollars.(I can give a list of the senators and congressman who voted on it to anyone that asks. Would have posted it but it is huge)
Reagan modernized or military and made the USSR start to talk about arms control. It can be argued that he "won" the cold war, but in actually his name appears on a long list of presidents before him. Reagan did however hasten the collapse of the USSR. His military policies were no different than Teddy Roosevelt with the philosophy "Talk softly and carry a big stick."
Reagan was the first to address the growing trade imbalance that had arisen in the late 70's with Japan.
Gave more power to agencies such as the EPA, and started initiatives to curb pollution while still rebuilding businesses in the country.
Raised tarriffs and fought free trade in order to protect American jobs.
Fought the PMRC! This protected the freedom of speech in music. Reagan veto'd two bills that had stuff in them that would have banned certain lyrics in songs from being published.
I hated Reagan for the most part growing up to be honest. Now I realise that he was a good president. The culture of the 80's reflects the optimism that he gave the country and the innovations that came from that decade were largely due to our optimistic view on things. Love him or hate him he has passed on and deserves our respect.
Don't give in to propaganda!
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Fesuni Chopsui
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I would say that some would estimate the cost of the United States of America, both at home and abroad, during the 20th century at well over 100 million dead...both due to the inability to support its own people and the innate craving for war and interfering in the rest of the world's politics all justified because we were the winners of WWII...Communism was deadly, but so are we...the only difference is, a larger portion of those that died due to communism were directly killed or with at the very least some intent...whereas the dead due to the US, both at home and abroad, were not all necessarily directly or with intent (although that's quite open to interpretation based on individual opinions)Chmee wrote:Some estimates place the cost of communism during the 20th centuries at nearly 100 million dead. Not to mention all of the poverty and oppresion it inflicted. I think that its attempted implementation has been a very very bad thing.Karae wrote:1) Communism is not a bad thing. It just doesn't work. Reagan had little to do with its fall - it would have failed without him.
Quietly Retired From EQ In Greater Faydark
FDR deserves credit for his stand in World War II. Domestically however, in my opinion he was awful. His policies probably deepened and lengthened the great depression. He threatened to pack the Supreme Court. Social Security (amoung other entitlement programs) got its start during his administration and while later politicians certainly deserve their share of blame for expanding and perpetuating it, the fact still remains it has been a huge source of spending over time (and is likely to balloon sharply in the not so distant future).Karae wrote:FDR has easily been the best President of the last 75 years, and even he made many mistakes. However, imo, he was in a difficult position (unlike Reagan) and improved the nation (unlike Reagan). While times were good under Reagan, he left the future at a disadvantage. Roosevelt left the future better off than the past.
Last edited by Chmee on June 7, 2004, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It was hardly the opinion at the time though that Reagan was correctly saying the Soviet Union was destined for the dustbin of history. Many thought he crazy for saying so.kyoukan wrote:it most certainly is not fact. the soviet union collapsed because any fucking macro-economist in the world will tell you that stalinist communism is unsustainable. that is a fact.
http://www.reason.com/0311/cr.gg.the.shtml
"It is a vulgar mistake to think that most people in Eastern Europe are miserable," declared economist Lester Thurow, adding that the Soviet Union was "a country whose economic achievements bear comparison with those of the United States." (I wonder if Thurow had ever flown on a Soviet airliner?) John Kenneth Galbraith went further, insisting that in many respects the Soviet economy was superior to ours: "In contrast to the Western industrial economies, it makes full use of its manpower."
Arthur Schlesinger, just back from a trip to Moscow in 1982, said Reagan was delusional. "I found more goods in the shops, more food in the markets, more cars on the street -- more of almost everything," he said, adding his contempt for "those in the U.S. who think the Soviet Union is on the verge of economic and social collapse, ready with one small push to go over the brink."
From the same article as above.show me a single fucking meaningful soviet politician who claimed that the USSR fell because the US "outspent" them.
Oddly, that’s not the way the Russians see it. Says Genrikh Grofimenko, a former adviser to Leonid Brezhnev, "Ninety-nine percent of the Russian people believe that you won the Cold War because of your president’s insistence on SDI," the Strategic Defense Initiative, as Star Wars was formally called.
Whether SDI will ever work (20 years later, it’s still mostly theoretical) and whether, even if it does work, it’s a wise strategic choice in a world where America’s most implacable enemies are not superpowers with hundreds of ICBMs but terrorists with suitcases, are arguments for another time. But what has largely been overlooked in the debate is that the Soviets had no doubt whatsoever that it would work.
At arms summits, Gorbachev frantically offered increasingly gigantic cuts in strategic missiles -- first 50 percent, then all of them -- if Reagan would just abandon SDI. Schweizer, mining Soviet archives and memoirs still unpublished in the West, shows that Gorbachev’s fears echoed throughout the Politburo. SDI "played a powerful psychological role," admitted KGB Gen. Nikolai Leonev. "It underlined still more our technological backwardness." Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko understood exactly what Reagan was up to: "Behind all this lies the clear calculation that the USSR will exhaust its material resources before the USA and therefore be forced to surrender." Most tellingly of all, the East German-backed terrorist group known as the Red Army Faction began systematically murdering executives of West German companies doing SDI research.
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masteen
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I remember the nuke drills in school. The spectre of nuclear holocaust was very real, and the economy was in the crapper after Carter's inneffectual tenure.
Regan came in and strong-armed OPEC, the USSR, basically anyone who opposed him. Yes, he did some harm, but America was in desperate need of a leader capable of taking action.
America is a stronger nation because of Reagan, which is something that cannot be said of any other president since JFK.
Regan came in and strong-armed OPEC, the USSR, basically anyone who opposed him. Yes, he did some harm, but America was in desperate need of a leader capable of taking action.
America is a stronger nation because of Reagan, which is something that cannot be said of any other president since JFK.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
Let me break it down for you.Karae wrote:Yeah, as experience has shown, our face to face conversations = you apologizing to me.Winnow wrote:A face to face conversation would certainly be different but this is the flamevault and geared toward sporatic responses while slacking off at work or during commercials.
You're a punk, end of story.
-You threatened me to not show up at the FF.
-I let you know in no uncertain terms that I'd be there. (someone can dig up the post here)
-You felt the need to call me on my cell phone the night before FF and call me a faggot then hang up
-I showed up the next day and walked right up to you and Thess and was right in your face. I said "no hard feelings" and that I'd be there all weekend and I hoped you had a good time.
-you did jack shit after that and I did whatever I felt like that weekend without worry about you in the least.
I don't threaten people and that weekend turned out to be fun but it wasn't because I backed down to you in the least. Thankfully the people you were with didn't listen to your bullshit and we had a good time.
Thess talked more shit to me than you that weekend.
I'll do the exact same thing next time if our paths cross. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me up the night before though.
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Sylvos
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Well in Karae's defense, while going to a "fan faire" with the explicit reason to beat someone up is rather inane and immature, not to mention a waste of money. Assaulting someone in a Las Vegas Casino can be termed at best "one of the stupidest things" a person can do. Mainly cause the way most Las Vegas Casino's deal with such actions are aside from banning you from entering the establishment not to mention any other affiliated establishments they own , you will most likely be roughed up by the casino personel before being handed over to the cops and arrested. While that seems rather "Hollywood" it's also for the most part true. So pretty much Karae did the intelligent thing and just let it go for the weekend so that we could further enjoy his company and you good dental health.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Sylvos wrote:Well in Karae's defense, while going to a "fan faire" with the explicit reason to beat someone up is rather inane and immature, not to mention a waste of money. Assaulting someone in a Las Vegas Casino can be termed at best "one of the stupidest things" a person can do. Mainly cause the way most Las Vegas Casino's deal with such actions are aside from banning you from entering the establishment not to mention any other affiliated establishments they own , you will most likely be roughed up by the casino personel before being handed over to the cops and arrested. While that seems rather "Hollywood" it's also for the most part true. So pretty much Karae did the intelligent thing and just let it go for the weekend so that we could further enjoy his company and you good dental health.
Carry on.
What a joke.
No shit Sherlock.Sylvos wrote:Well in Karae's defense, while going to a "fan faire" with the explicit reason to beat someone up is rather inane and immature, not to mention a waste of money. Assaulting someone in a Las Vegas Casino can be termed at best "one of the stupidest things" a person can do. Mainly cause the way most Las Vegas Casino's deal with such actions are aside from banning you from entering the establishment not to mention any other affiliated establishments they own , you will most likely be roughed up by the casino personel before being handed over to the cops and arrested. While that seems rather "Hollywood" it's also for the most part true. So pretty much Karae did the intelligent thing and just let it go for the weekend so that we could further enjoy his company and you good dental health.
Carry on.
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masteen
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Nice derailment for cockjousting.
Sylvos, those rationalizations look like the excuses of every punk-ass bitch who let his mouth write a check his ass couldn't cash. Your friend was doing better on his own.
Sylvos, those rationalizations look like the excuses of every punk-ass bitch who let his mouth write a check his ass couldn't cash. Your friend was doing better on his own.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Karae
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Haha.Winnow wrote:Let me break it down for you.
-You threatened me to not show up at the FF.
-I let you know in no uncertain terms that I'd be there. (someone can dig up the post here)
-You felt the need to call me on my cell phone the night before FF and call me a faggot then hang up
-I showed up the next day and walked right up to you and Thess and was right in your face. I said "no hard feelings" and that I'd be there all weekend and I hoped you had a good time.
-you did jack shit after that and I did whatever I felt like that weekend without worry about you in the least.
I don't threaten people and that weekend turned out to be fun but it wasn't because I backed down to you in the least. Thankfully the people you were with didn't listen to your bullshit and we had a good time.
Thess talked more shit to me than you that weekend.
I'll do the exact same thing next time if our paths cross. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me up the night before though.
You go big man! Flex them muscles.
War pickles men in a brine of disgust and dread.
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Sylvos
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shrug i've seen people get in fights in public places and unfortunately the end result is -
a. substantial fine
b. jail time
c. court dates
d. lifetime of regret for not keeping their temper in check.
But the IRL PK card is never a "cool" thing - game and RL are two seperate instances which people need to differentiate before allowing emotion to blur the lines between.
a. substantial fine
b. jail time
c. court dates
d. lifetime of regret for not keeping their temper in check.
But the IRL PK card is never a "cool" thing - game and RL are two seperate instances which people need to differentiate before allowing emotion to blur the lines between.
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Karae
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Man, do you really want me to post what really happened, and drag up Arilain, Thess, Lynxe, and Zoggmak to recount what a pussy you were?Winnow wrote:I think you have that reversed there sport.Karae wrote: Haha.
You go big man! Flex them muscles.
You owed me an apology, I got that apology. It was the end of it as far as I was concerned.
War pickles men in a brine of disgust and dread.
Please do. I have no clue what Thess would say but I highly doubt any of the others will confirm anything besides what I've said here. I had a blast with the Newfs all weekend long.Karae wrote:Man, do you really want me to post what really happened, and drag up Arilain, Thess, Lynxe, and Zoggmak to recount what a pussy you were?Winnow wrote:I think you have that reversed there sport.Karae wrote: Haha.
You go big man! Flex them muscles.
You owed me an apology, I got that apology. It was the end of it as far as I was concerned.
edit: nm, it's not worth going over it all again.
I had my money on Winnow!
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Niffoni
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Has anyone noticed that by page 2, pretty much every thread here looks the same? I'm guessing you all have 
Would anyone like to start PMing me flames at regular intervals so i feel more in the loop? Thx =D
Anyway, amid the mess, there have been some pretty neat posts and links. If war teaches us geography, rich dead guys teach us history.
Would anyone like to start PMing me flames at regular intervals so i feel more in the loop? Thx =DAnyway, amid the mess, there have been some pretty neat posts and links. If war teaches us geography, rich dead guys teach us history.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Ha, Cartalass!Cartalas wrote:Look FortheSkin posted again.Forthe wrote:stfu and use PMs.
Both of you come off looking like retards posting this shit. I'm talking Cart\Midnyte level retards.
Do yourselves a favor.
Oh wait, the name thing stopped being funny 4 years ago.
Have You Hugged An Iksar Today?
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](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
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Spang
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most of the people commenting on this thread didn't vote for the presidency during this time...you have no right to complain.
just my opinion.
and then there are those that weren't even american citizens able to vote for the president of the unitied states, regardless of age...
again, just my opinion.
just my opinion.
and then there are those that weren't even american citizens able to vote for the president of the unitied states, regardless of age...
again, just my opinion.
For the oppressed, peace is the absence of oppression, but for the oppressor, peace is the absence of resistance.
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Wonko Wenusberg
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EDIT:
You know what, I really do not care. The man is dead and he left office 18 years ago. We will be stuck with some boob who is half the president he was in 6 months, and people will start fighting about that.
You know what, I really do not care. The man is dead and he left office 18 years ago. We will be stuck with some boob who is half the president he was in 6 months, and people will start fighting about that.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
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Dregor Thule
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Getting a bit ahead of yourself there on Bush being re-elected, aren't you?Kylere wrote:EDIT:
You know what, I really do not care. The man is dead and he left office 18 years ago. We will be stuck with some boob who is half the president he was in 6 months, and people will start fighting about that.
Aslanna wrote:Ha, Cartalass!Cartalas wrote:Look FortheSkin posted again.Forthe wrote:stfu and use PMs.
Both of you come off looking like retards posting this shit. I'm talking Cart\Midnyte level retards.
Do yourselves a favor.
Oh wait, the name thing stopped being funny 4 years ago.
Ohh that stung ouch!!
Cunt
If you think Kerry is a great choice for President then you seriously need to consider cutting back on your crack habit. Neither of the two main party choices are acceptable to me. The only way i woudl vote for Bush is with a new VP, and the only way I would vote for Kerry is if he was the VP to John McCain.Dregor Thule wrote:Getting a bit ahead of yourself there on Bush being re-elected, aren't you?Kylere wrote:EDIT:
You know what, I really do not care. The man is dead and he left office 18 years ago. We will be stuck with some boob who is half the president he was in 6 months, and people will start fighting about that.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
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masteen
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No matter who wins, we get another boob in the White House. The more coverage of these two retards I watch, the less I actually feel like voting.Dregor Thule wrote:Getting a bit ahead of yourself there on Bush being re-elected, aren't you?Kylere wrote:EDIT:
You know what, I really do not care. The man is dead and he left office 18 years ago. We will be stuck with some boob who is half the president he was in 6 months, and people will start fighting about that.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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masteen
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You know what's fucking ironic is that I heard a lot of people, before the last election in 2000 saying how they didn't like Bush, but did like the people he was surrounded by (like Colin Powell). Too bad the people he actually listens to are dipshits like Ashcroft and Rumsfeld.Kelshara wrote:Don't think that many people actually consider Kerry a great choice, I know I don't. But he just might be better than Bush. Sad thing is, it is not as much Bush I dislike as the people he surrounds himself with.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt