Michael Moore

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 11:22 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... finale.ap/

Wow. An anti-american film, by an anti-american wins an award voted on by the hollywood elite in France.

Shocking.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » May 24, 2004, 11:29 pm

Ok Senator McCarthy!

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 24, 2004, 11:32 pm

anti-bush != anti-american

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 24, 2004, 11:49 pm

Where's your patriotic spirit, Forthe? JEEZ

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 24, 2004, 11:50 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... finale.ap/

Wow. An anti-american film, by an anti-american wins an award voted on by the hollywood elite in France.

Shocking.

lmao so someone who questions there country is anti-american

There is nothing more american then openly critizising a shitty-ass president who is a fuck up in almost every aspect of his miserable career.

Hell, our next president must be anti-american, as Kerry is questioning Bush left and right. Dont kid yourself, Kerry is the next american president.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 24, 2004, 11:52 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... finale.ap/

Wow. An anti-american film, by an anti-american wins an award voted on by the hollywood elite in France.

Shocking.

Wow a Palme d'Or...good for him...

I gather you never go see hollywood films?...you wouldn't want to support the liberal media conspiracy...

You do understand that Cannes is an international festival and the judges are largely not part of the hollywood elite?...

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 25, 2004, 12:14 am

Michael Moore is an ass. Sorry, he only looks at one side of an issue and has no problem with trying to preach political views that are extreme. I find his views are based on treating the symptom of a problem instead of going after the source. Even when he is found to be wrong he doesn't have enough common sense or grace to admit it. The guy is worse than white trash to me. No wonder hollywood likes him.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 25, 2004, 12:22 am

Even when he is found to be wrong he doesn't have enough common sense or grace to admit it. The guy is worse than white trash to me. No wonder hollywood likes him.

Yeah I agree, Bush really should admit when he is wrong.

Oh wait, wrong person.. the description just fit perfectly..

noel · Post by **noel** » May 25, 2004, 12:26 am

Arilain wrote:Michael Moore is an ass. Sorry, he only looks at one side of an issue and has no problem with trying to preach political views that are extreme. I find his views are based on treating the symptom of a problem instead of going after the source. Even when he is found to be wrong he doesn't have enough common sense or grace to admit it. The guy is worse than white trash to me. No wonder hollywood likes him.

I agree that Michael Moore is an ass. I agree he's one-sided. The good thing about Michael Moore however, is that you know exactly where he stands, and what you're getting.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 25, 2004, 12:58 am

Arilain wrote:Sorry, he only looks at one side of an issue and has no problem with trying to preach political views that are extreme.

His films certainly present only his side of an issue...I'm not sure why you feel that his films should present a position other than his own...Would you write a book that concludes something that you don't believe?...You confuse Documentary with Journalism...

Documentary Film is an art...Art is not obligated to be impartial or fair...In fact some of the best is designed to provoke...So he suceeds at his goal apparently...

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 25, 2004, 12:59 am

Where is Hollywood france?

miir · Post by **miir** » May 25, 2004, 1:15 am

Haha, Midnyte really is a fascist.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 25, 2004, 1:18 am

5 of the judges are american

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 25, 2004, 1:22 am

Michael Moore might be an artist, but in my opinion he is nothing more than a propaganda artist. I would have more respect for him and his work if he tried to really be non biased. Actually I think journalism and documentaries should be non biased. Opps...that will never happen cause that won't sell. If I want to see good propaganda films based on hatered for others I would watch some classic 1930's Nazi films.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 25, 2004, 1:33 am

Sionistic wrote:5 of the judges are american

Errrm no...

Joining Tarantino, Swinton and Hark are American actress Kathleen Turner (who presented Tarantino with that Golden Palm trophy), French siren Emmanuelle Beart, veteran American filmmaker Jerry Schatzberg, Finnish movie critic and film festival programmer Peter von Bagh, Belgian actor-screenwriter Benoit Poelvoorde and Edwidge Danticat, a Haitian-born American fiction writer.

Tarantino, Kathleen Turner, Schatzberg and Danticat...That's 4...2 being from Hollywood...

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 25, 2004, 1:35 am

Arilain wrote:Michael Moore might be an artist, but in my opinion he is nothing more than a propaganda artist. I would have more respect for him and his work if he tried to really be non biased. Actually I think journalism and documentaries should be non biased. Opps...that will never happen cause that won't sell. If I want to see good propaganda films based on hatered for others I would watch some classic 1930's Nazi films.

I'm sure the art world will get right on changing the history of film based on your opinion...

Perhaps we should also insist that Lord of the Rings be re-shot because it is overly biased towards the good guys...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 25, 2004, 1:42 am

criticizing bush = unpatriotic

criticizing clinton = patriotic duty

and micheal moore is the biased one

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 25, 2004, 1:52 am

oops, you're right, 4, my mistake

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 25, 2004, 3:10 am

You don't have to like him, or agree with his opinion. If your opinion differs, do what he does. Get active, grab a camera, shoot a film.

It's not like he's the only person voicing his opinion with media. Look at Rush Limbaugh.. Talk about fucking idiots of the world..

miir · Post by **miir** » May 25, 2004, 3:21 am

Arilain wrote:Michael Moore might be an artist, but in my opinion he is nothing more than a propaganda artist. I would have more respect for him and his work if he tried to really be non biased. Actually I think journalism and documentaries should be non biased. Opps...that will never happen cause that won't sell. If I want to see good propaganda films based on hatered for others I would watch some classic 1930's Nazi films.

Hmm, drawing a comparison between Michael Moore and Hitler?
That's a bit of a stretch.

For fuck sakes, if you don't like his work, don't watch it.
You just make yourself look like a retard by trying to call it propaganda. It's entertainment in the guise of a documentary. It's one person's opinion. Take for what it's worth.

Perhaps you guys feel threatened by his film... that there may be some truth in it. Are you really that embarrased that you support a screw-up like George W Bush?

What 'hatered' is Michael Moore trying to spread in his film?

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » May 25, 2004, 3:25 am

Hey, some of the best films are propoganda! Casablanca!

Mak · Post by **Mak** » May 25, 2004, 4:35 am

My biggest issue with Moore is not that he makes films that represent his opinion. My problem isn't that he's anti-Bush, or anti-conservative, or that he has political axes to grind.

My problem is that he represents his films as documentaries, and that we are led to believe that they depict a factual account of the subject at hand. As we learned from "Bowling for Columbine", he is fairly non-discerning in assembling his "facts", and he uses a great deal of editing to create some of the "facts" that he needs. That's not to say it's all fiction, but one cannot know what is actual truth and what is made-up truth, and that's why I think he's an ass. (And skip your "made-up truth = WMD" retorts, I've already heard them, and it's not the same thing.)

So long as nobody is fooled into thinking this is hard-core factual filmmaking, then by all means get your popcorn and enjoy the show.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 25, 2004, 9:05 am

Mak wrote:My biggest issue with Moore is not that he makes films that represent his opinion. My problem isn't that he's anti-Bush, or anti-conservative, or that he has political axes to grind.

My problem is that he represents his films as documentaries, and that we are led to believe that they depict a factual account of the subject at hand. As we learned from "Bowling for Columbine", he is fairly non-discerning in assembling his "facts", and he uses a great deal of editing to create some of the "facts" that he needs. That's not to say it's all fiction, but one cannot know what is actual truth and what is made-up truth, and that's why I think he's an ass. (And skip your "made-up truth = WMD" retorts, I've already heard them, and it's not the same thing.)

So long as nobody is fooled into thinking this is hard-core factual filmmaking, then by all means get your popcorn and enjoy the show.

He does present facts, just one side of the facts.
Put it this way, there are more reliable "facts" in any michael moore movie than in any given 2 hours of fox news.

Midnyte, you are doing down the facist road, your sounding EXACTLY like one.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 25, 2004, 9:17 am

He spins a story, for sure. If you want to call it propoganda, then by all means. But just make sure you label what you hear on the news as propoganda. What you hear from McClellan is propoganda. Advertisements are propoganda. If you start labelling one persons opinion as propoganda, make sure you label all opinions propoganda. Don't believe the propoganda? Shit, girl, you already do.

Moore knows how to put together a film. He speaks well through the medium. He doesn't speak well live tho. I love his work, but I cringe when I see him make a speech, because I know he's going to hurt his message more than harm it most likely.

I can't wait to see this.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 25, 2004, 9:26 am

What does it matter what kind of movie the chubby teletubby makes? He has a right to just like we all have right not to watch it.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 25, 2004, 9:45 am

Cartalas wrote:What does it matter what kind of movie the chubby teletubby makes? He has a right to just like we all have right not to watch it.

Thats what I say, but some facist freedom hating assholes who happen to be part of your party think otherwise, and believe on censoring anyone "un american"
just like hitler!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 25, 2004, 10:03 am

Xzion wrote:
Cartalas wrote:What does it matter what kind of movie the chubby teletubby makes? He has a right to just like we all have right not to watch it.
Thats what I say, but some facist freedom hating assholes who happen to be part of your party think otherwise, and believe on censoring anyone "un american"
just like hitler!

Again that is there right to feel that way just as it is yoru right too voice yoru opinion on it.

Btw dont lump me into a party I voted for Bush only becuase I thought he would be a better choice then Gore I still feel that, Now is he a better choice then Kerry I dont know yet. Maybe ill sleep for 4 yrs.

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 25, 2004, 10:33 am

I was comparing one propagandist film to another actually. Nazi films in the 1930's were good propaganda films. Not that I am comparing the two artists that put them together.

I have one watched bits of his work and I couldn't sit through it cause he is totally wrong on some issues in my opinoin. For example the columbine documentary was very anti-gun. I don't think guns were the underlying issue of the cause of that tradgedy, and he barely even touched on that. Documentaries give the false impression to the viewer that the artist has done his research and is representing all aspects of the story. Those of us that are educated can realise the film for what it is and realise it is just one guys opinion.

Some of you guys just can't see the forest for the trees. Some of you guys on the right and the left are lost in your own hatred for one another. You both fail to realise that no matter what the outcome will be in November that the problems in this country will not be changed or helped.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 25, 2004, 10:49 am

The anit-gun rhetoric in Bowling for Columbine was a small part of the point I think Moore was tryign to get across. I think he was more trying to show what caused violence in america and it wasn't guns. It was more a result of the media glamorization of violence that is to blame.

I will probably see his next movie but I won't consider it a documentary. His movies are more of a commentary on the subjects he picks. I definitely do not agree with everything he states but I admire him for not being afriad to speak his mind.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 25, 2004, 11:00 am

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Let's see....

I don't want a dictatorship.

I'm not for strict socioeconomic controls.

I'm not in favor of terrorism and cencorship.

I'm not in favor of racism or blatant nationalism.

hmmm, guess I don't fit into the fascist category, sorry. Just because someone doesn't agree with your exact point doesn't make them a fascist. You can't label everyone. Most people are many things all rolled into one and not easily labeled. Especially by such incorrect labels used to diminish their points. I would call that behavior censorship

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 25, 2004, 11:23 am

I don't like the guy so much because he comes off (in my opinion) as an arogant egoist who thrives on being in the limelight for make loud and obnoxious statements. That is just from what I have seen of the guy on TV. I haven't seen any of his films that I know of and I don't really plan to. I go to the movies to be entertained and this guys work I don't feel will entertain me.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 25, 2004, 11:23 am

You do seem to kind of fit the belligerent nationalism label.

And you basically came out and supported censorship in the poetry thread.

/shrug

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 25, 2004, 11:25 am

Arilain wrote:I was comparing one propagandist film to another actually. Nazi films in the 1930's were good propaganda films. Not that I am comparing the two artists that put them together.

I have one watched bits of his work and I couldn't sit through it cause he is totally wrong on some issues in my opinoin. For example the columbine documentary was very anti-gun. I don't think guns were the underlying issue of the cause of that tradgedy, and he barely even touched on that. Documentaries give the false impression to the viewer that the artist has done his research and is representing all aspects of the story. Those of us that are educated can realise the film for what it is and realise it is just one guys opinion.

Some of you guys just can't see the forest for the trees. Some of you guys on the right and the left are lost in your own hatred for one another. You both fail to realise that no matter what the outcome will be in November that the problems in this country will not be changed or helped.

You should really watch an entire film before criticizing it...In point of fact Moore pointed out that Canada had higher gun ownership than the US but a tremendously lower homicide rate...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 25, 2004, 11:27 am

Arborealus wrote:
Arilain wrote:I was comparing one propagandist film to another actually. Nazi films in the 1930's were good propaganda films. Not that I am comparing the two artists that put them together.

I have one watched bits of his work and I couldn't sit through it cause he is totally wrong on some issues in my opinoin. For example the columbine documentary was very anti-gun. I don't think guns were the underlying issue of the cause of that tradgedy, and he barely even touched on that. Documentaries give the false impression to the viewer that the artist has done his research and is representing all aspects of the story. Those of us that are educated can realise the film for what it is and realise it is just one guys opinion.

Some of you guys just can't see the forest for the trees. Some of you guys on the right and the left are lost in your own hatred for one another. You both fail to realise that no matter what the outcome will be in November that the problems in this country will not be changed or helped.
You should really watch an entire film before criticizing it...In point of fact Moore pointed out that Canada had higher gun ownership than the US but a tremendously lower homicide rate...

Only because they are bad marksman.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 25, 2004, 11:32 am

You I get this replusive feeling that Moore does this stuff just to feed his own ego.

As far as the film? Sure why not watch it. I know Moore's credibilty and armed with this knowledge, the arguments of his film can be properly considered.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 25, 2004, 11:32 am

Cartalas wrote:Only because they are bad marksman.

Hehe...

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 25, 2004, 11:48 am

Deward wrote:The anit-gun rhetoric in Bowling for Columbine was a small part of the point I think Moore was tryign to get across. I think he was more trying to show what caused violence in america and it wasn't guns. It was more a result of the media glamorization of violence that is to blame.

I will probably see his next movie but I won't consider it a documentary. His movies are more of a commentary on the subjects he picks. I definitely do not agree with everything he states but I admire him for not being afriad to speak his mind.

I thought the major message he was trying to get across in Bowling for Columbine is how your society is governed\controlled by fear. Everything else is just a symptom of that fear.

I agree his films shouldn't be classified as documentaries. I personally want unbiased facts in documentaries. Also his promotional gimics leave a lot to be desired.

IMO Bowling for Columbine was a poor documentary but an excellent film.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 25, 2004, 12:00 pm

Sylvus wrote:You do seem to kind of fit the belligerent nationalism label.

And you basically came out and supported censorship in the poetry thread.

/shrug

I can understand why you might think that. People's passions differ. I understand that. I grew up in a military household. My father was in Nam. Loves his country dearly. My grandfather was a POW for 5 years. I grew up in a family that constantly showed me how grateful I should be to my country and the soldiers who fought to make it the way it is today. I am.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » May 25, 2004, 12:59 pm

Michael Moore is to the American left, what people like Rush Limbaugh are to the American right. Their media may be different but the type of message is the same: a small factual basis surrounded in hype, speculation and the 20-20 view of someone judging what went on in the past.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 25, 2004, 1:16 pm

Wulfran wrote:Michael Moore is to the American left, what people like Rush Limbaugh are to the American right. Their media may be different but the type of message is the same: a small factual basis surrounded in hype, speculation and the 20-20 view of someone judging what went on in the past.

hard to argue with that. well said.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » May 25, 2004, 1:18 pm

Amen, Wulfran nailed it on the head. Moore = Leftist Limbaugh = Entertainer

noel · Post by **noel** » May 25, 2004, 1:38 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I can understand why you might think that. People's passions differ. I understand that. I grew up in a military household. My father was in Nam. Loves his country dearly. My grandfather was a POW for 5 years. I grew up in a family that constantly showed me how grateful I should be to my country and the soldiers who fought to make it the way it is today. I am.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ. Do you want me to cry for your fucking family? My grandfathers both served in WWII, and the Korean war. My father served in 'Nam, Eastern Europe, the U.S.S.R., and Coronado Beach, San Diego (Lets see if you can do the math on that one) and the US Naval Academy. They all taught me the same thing. Love your country, support your troops, be patriotic, but question everything.

Blind Faith will allow people to take advantage of you, reduce your freedoms, and potentially get you killed. Keep up the good work.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 25, 2004, 2:09 pm

Michael Moore's an idiot. Place his films right next to the picture of someone pissing on the american flag for artistic expression and be done with it.

Liberals are as much idiots for listening to his crap as conservatives are for listening to Rush.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 25, 2004, 2:57 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I can understand why you might think that. People's passions differ. I understand that. I grew up in a military household. My father was in Nam. Loves his country dearly. My grandfather was a POW for 5 years. I grew up in a family that constantly showed me how grateful I should be to my country and the soldiers who fought to make it the way it is today. I am.

But you mistake the government for the country...we are the country...they are our employees...

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 25, 2004, 3:18 pm

I hope he gets the Oscar again!
The one great moment in last year's show.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 25, 2004, 6:36 pm

Someone has to ask the questions others are afraid or unable to ask. I like Micheal Moore because he is pretty much the only person I can think of that is fighting for the little man by always questioning the norm, when the norm is obviously not normal at all. He pokes at the rich, the powerful, and the elite. His series "The Aweful Truth" went after everything from corporate crooks to insurance companies that refused to pay for life threatning medical proceedures. He also produced results from those pieces for common, blue collar Americans that were being fucked by the higher ups.

When a company lays off 6,000 employees, and the president of the company gets an 8 million dollar bonus, Moore immediately sides with the 6,000 that are left out to dry. I perfer that mentality over compliance and acceptance that "well, it just happens".

Personally, I enjoy seeing the other side of what is presented to us by the media and the people in charge of our country. The truth is, many of Moore's childish pranks underly very serious problems that effect many of us in one way or another.

Btw, in Bowling for Columbine, Moore didn't really answer any of the questions he posed at many times in the film. However, that movie was a springboard to start conversations amoung those in the audience. Simply starting the spark of interest over such a subject that most people don't even precieve as a problem is an acheivement in of itself. I feel the same way about his upcoming film. It will make people interested to either prove or disprove his points. Either way, it is getting people involved that otherwise wouldn't even be aware of the issues. Once Bush's fuck-ups and connections are placed in a 2 hour movie with dramatic music and intersting side-facts, it will involve more thought and information processing than the past 4 years of TV news about the issue.

Anyone want to place bets on how successful the film will be once it opens in theaters?

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » May 25, 2004, 7:35 pm

I agree his movies are totally biased and one-sided, but I do think the messages in his films are important. I do not think he is anti-American, I think he is a "muckraker", he uncovers corruption in politics, corporations, etc. He makes movies to make a point and he's successful in that.

They are interesting movies with a lot to say. There are so many trash movies out there, I welcome movies like this whole-heartedly. They bring up discussion and provoke thought, that is something mainstream movies completey lack these days.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 26, 2004, 11:28 am

Michael Moore - Stupid Fat Environment Ruining Druggie White repressed homosexual who alters facts and reality to build propaganda against those he dislikes.

Rush Limbaugh - Stupid Fat Environment Ruining Druggie White repressed homosexual who alters facts and reality to build propaganda against those he dislikes.

(now before anyone gets on the homosexual thing, I did not say it was bad, the fact that they are in denial IS bad however.)

They only thing scary is the number of parroting dittoheads they both possess, the dumb fuckers too unable to seperate myth from reality.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » May 26, 2004, 11:31 am

Kylere wrote:Michael Moore - Stupid Fat Environment Ruining Druggie White repressed homosexual who alters facts and reality to build propaganda against those he dislikes.

Rush Limbaugh - Stupid Fat Environment Ruining Druggie White repressed homosexual who alters facts and reality to build propaganda against those he dislikes.

(now before anyone gets on the homosexual thing, I did not say it was bad, the fact that they are in denial IS bad however.)

They only thing scary is the number of parroting dittoheads they both possess, the dumb fuckers too unable to seperate myth from reality.

man you are on a roll today Kylere!

what signs do you have that EITHER of them are repressed homosexuals? Do you even know what one is or are you pulling a pot-calling-kettle so no one will notice you?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 26, 2004, 2:43 pm

I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what one is.

VeeshanVault

Michael Moore

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