Draft

Daboohk · Post by **Daboohk** » May 20, 2004, 3:41 pm

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/iss ... ongressorg

Think it will happen?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 3:47 pm

Daboohk wrote:http://www.congress.org/congressorg/iss ... ongressorg

Think it will happen?

Nice site:

There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election.

Maybe they should employ a grammar checker!

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 20, 2004, 4:00 pm

20 bucks says it will not happen!

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 20, 2004, 4:05 pm

If Bush is re-elected i would bet a 40% or so chance that this would actually happen. If Kerry is elected it will not.
If this does get passed, and i get drafted i will be the first to jump on a plane and get the fuck out of this country.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » May 20, 2004, 4:47 pm

I really doubt it, but I've been browsing for apartments in Vancouver just in case.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » May 20, 2004, 5:03 pm

Even that wont save you karae.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.

College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

I highly doubt it will pass. I always did want to live in Rome, or in Germany.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 20, 2004, 5:14 pm

If i don't want to be found...trust me...you won't fucking find me.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 20, 2004, 5:15 pm

Wow, you guys are true Americans, huh? You'll gladly live here and enjoy all the freedoms, but if called upon you will bail. Very sad.

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

I don't necessarily agree with this war either, but it's not my job to question if called upon. (Just in case that was your first retort.)

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 20, 2004, 5:15 pm

Truant wrote:If i don't want to be found...trust me...you won't fucking find me.

i think they check basements now

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 20, 2004, 5:42 pm

It's not like our government is fighting a clear evil like in WW2. Expecting young people to support a war of dubious reasons that our gov't has botched so horribly is pretty ludicrous.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » May 20, 2004, 5:48 pm

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

Sorry, Ive done my time. Your welcome for the bullshit Ive had to put up with to serve you, your plate of freedom to chow down on. While I rethink of that, are you the one whos going to pay me for the half year I was out of work due to a disability I suffered while on active duty? Or should I still wait another year and a half in hopes they finally pay me. Im going to assume no, and I wont get my 20k thats owed to me, and my doctors bills I had to pay.

I think Ill take pick number 3, and tell the military to suck my dick and not reup this July. Oh guess what. The 200 other people in my company * military term for unit* in the guard, wont be reupping either. I guess their crusade for Oil and daddys revenge didnt sit too well with them either, while they saw their friends die while taking over Baghad airport.

This isnt about defending the mother land. This is about a guy who has a hard on for seeing how far he can go. Theres a reason why they expect over 45% of the military not reup when its their time.

To be called apon for a guys personal revenge is totally diffrent than being called on for a War on the scale and reasons like WW1 and WW2.

It is my job, and everyone elses to question all actions. Not to blindly follow.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 20, 2004, 6:22 pm

Raistin wrote:
I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

Sorry, Ive done my time. Your welcome for the bullshit Ive had to put up with to serve you, your plate of freedom to chow down on. While I rethink of that, are you the one whos going to pay me for the half year I was out of work due to a disability I suffered while on active duty? Or should I still wait another year and a half in hopes they finally pay me. Im going to assume no, and I wont get my 20k thats owed to me, and my doctors bills I had to pay.

I think Ill take pick number 3, and tell the military to suck my dick and not reup this July. Oh guess what. The 200 other people in my company * military term for unit* in the guard, wont be reupping either. I guess their crusade for Oil and daddys revenge didnt sit too well with them either, while they saw their friends die while taking over Baghad airport.

This isnt about defending the mother land. This is about a guy who has a hard on for seeing how far he can go. Theres a reason why they expect over 45% of the military not reup when its their time.

To be called apon for a guys personal revenge is totally diffrent than being called on for a War on the scale and reasons like WW1 and WW2.

It is my job, and everyone elses to question all actions. Not to blindly follow.

Well said.

If the cause were just, and the draft occurred, I'd be the first person in line, but I refuse to die for someone's personal agenda. My life is worth more than that to me.

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 20, 2004, 6:23 pm

I have done my time, and sacrificed my knee to my country. Honestly I would do it again if I could. Four surgeries later I get paid and not only does the government pay for my school but I get paid to go to school. The military was a good deal for me.

For those who would want to flee the country I suggest South America.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 20, 2004, 6:57 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow, you guys are true Americans, huh? You'll gladly live here and enjoy all the freedoms, but if called upon you will bail. Very sad.

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go.

no you fucking wouldn't you stupid pussy.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 20, 2004, 7:28 pm

I did my time on active duty and I am currently available for duty due to the 25 year IRR (Inactive Ready Reserve) which should end in about 2013. If called back I will go, fat body and all. (it's all about the mad skillz)

I highly recommend service to everyone. It was a great experience. Well, most of it was. I would support a draft so long as it included women as well. Equal rights means you take the bad with the good.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 20, 2004, 7:44 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow, you guys are true Americans, huh? You'll gladly live here and enjoy all the freedoms, but if called upon you will bail. Very sad.

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

I don't necessarily agree with this war either, but it's not my job to question if called upon. (Just in case that was your first retort.)

God this post pissed me off.
Enjoy freedom? this douche in office is TAKING AWAY MY FUCKING FREEDOMS, im not going to fight for his facioust ass forcefully for something i do not believe in. Its people like you who put hitler into power, and were blinded by propaganda.
Hey, they had censorship and banned everything un-german or obscene, just like were doing. Im not going to be a pawn in WW3.

That, and im also strongly against the draft. If the american people do not want to fight a war, then the government has no right to force them to do so. If we are called upon to fight a just war, people would be standing in lne to volunteer, just like in WW2. That draft card is my one way ticket to europe.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 8:31 pm

Truant wrote:If i don't want to be found...trust me...you won't fucking find me.

Found you!

I'd be totally opposed to the draft. If you don't have enough volunteers than you shouldn't be fighting the war. Use more Tomahawks!

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 20, 2004, 8:38 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow, you guys are true Americans, huh? You'll gladly live here and enjoy all the freedoms, but if called upon you will bail. Very sad.

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

I don't necessarily agree with this war either, but it's not my job to question if called upon. (Just in case that was your first retort.)

So now you're a tough guy knowing that your circumstance would put you on a list just above diabetic, glaucomic, elderly kittens in terms of the draft.

Wuwu

In terms of the thread, it'll never happen unless we go to a conventional war w/ china

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 8:42 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Wuwu

In terms of the thread, it'll never happen unless we go to a conventional war w/ china

I see almost zero chance of that happening. That would be beyond ugly. China = nuke war just like it used to be with the Soviet Union.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 20, 2004, 8:44 pm

That's kinda my point

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 20, 2004, 9:11 pm

If China attacked the US it would just be a matter of utterly destroying their navy in a few days, eliminating their air force, and then using old men with 12 guages to drop their air and naval transports. Now fighting a war IN China is another issue, that would be nuclear.

They have much more manpower, artillery etc, But they do not have the capability to maintain an Air/land/Sea bridge while we opposed them. Not across the entire Pacific. Now as time goes by and their economy perks they will start to upgrade weapons systems and become more of a threat conventionally, but as it stands this moment their is no way they would be a significant threat to the continental 48 states.

Now onto the draft, I have no objection to the draft as long as the deferments are zero, it is male and female, and they freeze/defer/reduce college loans when they call you onto active duty. Would I feel the same way if I had not earned my time already? Yep.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » May 20, 2004, 11:06 pm

I'm sorry but if it's not your job to question the war... who's is it? You cannot just sit on your ass listening to talk radio for your opinions. And all the freedoms given to us are great and would be violated if a draft was instituted.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 21, 2004, 12:43 am

military doesnt want a draft.

i think one of those bills is Charles Rangle's and he put it out there to make the White House look bad.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2004, 1:18 am

Voronwë wrote:military doesnt want a draft.

i think one of those bills is Charles Rangle's and he put it out there to make the White House look bad.

Not like the White House needs any help doing that... They got Bush!

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 21, 2004, 11:17 am

Kylere wrote:If China attacked the US it would just be a matter of utterly destroying their navy in a few days, eliminating their air force, and then using old men with 12 guages to drop their air and naval transports. Now fighting a war IN China is another issue, that would be nuclear.

They have much more manpower, artillery etc, But they do not have the capability to maintain an Air/land/Sea bridge while we opposed them. Not across the entire Pacific. Now as time goes by and their economy perks they will start to upgrade weapons systems and become more of a threat conventionally, but as it stands this moment their is no way they would be a significant threat to the continental 48 states.

Now onto the draft, I have no objection to the draft as long as the deferments are zero, it is male and female, and they freeze/defer/reduce college loans when they call you onto active duty. Would I feel the same way if I had not earned my time already? Yep.

That might be the case if only China was involved, but if the US was busy in Iraq, AF, AND Tiawan/China, then what would keep NK or other similar countries around the block from trying to cause trouble? PRC has missles too. They don't necessarily need to cross the straight, they could easily lob more than a few at Taiwan.

Draft for Iraq = Bad
Draft for China =

i am all for a volunteer force. we shouldn't have to be forced to fight a war we don't agree with or support. i don't think it will happen but i'm probably not voting for Bush just in case.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 21, 2004, 12:35 pm

If China attacked the US it would just be a matter of utterly destroying their navy in a few days, eliminating their air force, and then using old men with 12 guages to drop their air and naval transports

Hey, don't forget Clinton allowed the chinese to steal all your MOST UP TO DATE nuclear and thermonuclear warhead designs and most of your missile schematics too.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2004, 2:31 pm

vn_Tanc wrote: Hey, don't forget Clinton allowed the chinese to steal all your MOST UP TO DATE nuclear and thermonuclear warhead designs and most of your missile schematics too.

Please don't break the focus of the Bush bashers!

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » May 21, 2004, 2:33 pm

i would never fight for bush .... mexico ... here i come !

Thess · Post by **Thess** » May 21, 2004, 2:44 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow, you guys are true Americans, huh? You'll gladly live here and enjoy all the freedoms, but if called upon you will bail. Very sad.

I'm 31, an asthmatic, have two kids and a wife, and if my country called upon me, I would go. You kids have a lot of growing up to do. And if you aren't kids, then it's even sadder.

I don't necessarily agree with this war either, but it's not my job to question if called upon. (Just in case that was your first retort.)

As a person, I don't believe in killing other people (only in self defense). My stance doesn't change because my government tells me to. I do not support the war in Iraq, or any war that equates to our country measuring it's dick size.

Am I a bad american because of it? I don't think so, it absolutely is your job and right as an american to question what your government tells you to do. I would not waste my time trying to convince the millions of clueless idiots like you how truely blind you are.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 21, 2004, 2:48 pm

How many here are actually Draftable? the right age, health, tax bracket?

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 21, 2004, 5:52 pm

Can you pay your way out of the draft?

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 21, 2004, 6:04 pm

Xzion wrote:Can you pay your way out of the draft?

I don't believe that is a viable option any more. However, you could belong to a rich family and only have to join a Guard Unit in Alabama and then maybe show up.

*Edit: I botched the definition of Carpet Bagger. *

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 21, 2004, 10:02 pm

Xzion wrote:Can you pay your way out of the draft?

Only if your the son of a Republican politician.

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 21, 2004, 10:41 pm

Actually this isn't really "new" news. Rangle D- NY has been pushing this since right after we went into Afganistan so that "rich white businessmen will have to send their sons off for their own wars." I will try to find a link to that quote. The copy I have is from a debate from congress, but I know a few news outlets covered it. The military is whole heartedly against the draft. You have no idea how happy they are not to be forced to accept anyone that go in. Well.....except for the Army I guess.

Don't believe the propaganda!

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 22, 2004, 1:45 am

...it's so much easier than you think. Just ask the guy at the registration counter when you go if he wants to go have some coffee later, and wink at him. (if you're a guy of course) Being gay is like a direct ticket out.

Normally I wouldn't dodge the draft, but this war is way too unethical. I even have a guilty conscience paying taxes...

-=Lohrno

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 22, 2004, 4:13 am

Don't ask Don't tell!

This bill will not pass. No one will destroy thier precious political aspirations by voteing for it. Then again I could be wrong.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 22, 2004, 8:23 pm

Xzion wrote: God this post pissed me off.
Enjoy freedom? this douche in office is TAKING AWAY MY FUCKING FREEDOMS, im not going to fight for his facioust ass forcefully for something i do not believe in. Its people like you who put hitler into power, and were blinded by propaganda.
Hey, they had censorship and banned everything un-german or obscene, just like were doing. Im not going to be a pawn in WW3.

That, and im also strongly against the draft. If the american people do not want to fight a war, then the government has no right to force them to do so. If we are called upon to fight a just war, people would be standing in lne to volunteer, just like in WW2. That draft card is my one way ticket to europe.

Wow, someone shave the corn off of your corn-cob before you sat on it again?
What freedom have YOU lost?
Also, how powerful of a position did the *people* put Hitler in, and how powerful of a position did he take when Hindenberg passed away in office?
Can you name when the largest draft took place? It wasn't even during wartime, and I don't see this one passing, and going into effect, like the many times it has come up before.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 22, 2004, 9:12 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Xzion wrote: God this post pissed me off.
Enjoy freedom? this douche in office is TAKING AWAY MY FUCKING FREEDOMS, im not going to fight for his facioust ass forcefully for something i do not believe in. Its people like you who put hitler into power, and were blinded by propaganda.
Hey, they had censorship and banned everything un-german or obscene, just like were doing. Im not going to be a pawn in WW3.

That, and im also strongly against the draft. If the american people do not want to fight a war, then the government has no right to force them to do so. If we are called upon to fight a just war, people would be standing in lne to volunteer, just like in WW2. That draft card is my one way ticket to europe.
Wow, someone shave the corn off of your corn-cob before you sat on it again?
What freedom have YOU lost?
Also, how powerful of a position did the *people* put Hitler in, and how powerful of a position did he take when Hindenberg passed away in office?
Can you name when the largest draft took place? It wasn't even during wartime, and I don't see this one passing, and going into effect, like the many times it has come up before.

Well i cant listen to howard stern in the morning anymore.
As a frequent international traveler i get pulled aside before almost EVERY flight, as a 21 year old with a Mediterranean complexion and a last name that can be confused with an arabic one by ignorant rednecks. ...and these fuckers, if they could would attempt to force me, against my will to fight in a war for a president i do not believe in, just to name a few things.
Im mainly speaking on principle thought, i am one of the few people who would personally benefit from Bush's fucked up economic policys, but im not enough of a greedy basterd to support him.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 22, 2004, 10:23 pm

Xzion wrote:Well i cant listen to howard stern in the morning anymore.
As a frequent international traveler i get pulled aside before almost EVERY flight, as a 21 year old with a Mediterranean complexion and a last name that can be confused with an arabic one by ignorant rednecks. ...and these fuckers, if they could would attempt to force me, against my will to fight in a war for a president i do not believe in, just to name a few things.
Im mainly speaking on principle thought, i am one of the few people who would personally benefit from Bush's fucked up economic policys, but im not enough of a greedy basterd to support him.

You are one ignorant fuck.

My 28 year old blond hair blue eyed wife also gets checked EVERY single flight. Her last name doesn't sound Arabic or Spanish or anthing else you want to blame racial profiling on. Stop whining you fucking baby.

Can't listen to Howard Stern? I can and do. Call your pussy station and complain....it is their ass that is not broadcasting him. They are the ones who are taking away your freedom to listen to Stern.....as important as that freedom is. Can't say I agree with Bush or his administration forcing morality on people. Even God has given everyone the choice....and they are free to make the right or wrong one.

I personally think that any draft is bullshit and destroys the competence of your military. If every swinging dick does not follow their leader with the utmost trust and does it without thinking in battle, then they are killing themselves and posibly everyone in their unit. The draft is just flat wrong.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » May 23, 2004, 1:49 pm

I don't know about you guys, but I feel that your freedom is controlled when a draft is started.

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » May 23, 2004, 1:53 pm

If there was a draft, I would serve if drafted.

There won't be a draft no matter who is elected, but if there was, I would not even consider running.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2004, 2:21 pm

I'm too old for the draft now but I signed up for selective service when I turned 18.

Here's the Selective Service website. It has some interesting info on the Vietnam era draft and how a draft would work:

http://www.sss.gov/

Here's a quote about the draft lottery that would take place:

If and when the Congress and the President reinstate a military draft, the Selective Service System would conduct a National Draft Lottery to determine the order in which young men would be drafted.

The lottery would establish the priority of call based on the birth dates of registrants. The first men drafted would be those turning age 20 during the calendar year of the lottery. For example, if a draft were held in 1998, those men born in 1978 would be considered first. If a young man turns 21 in the year of the draft, he would be in the second priority, in turning 22 he would be in the third priority, and so forth until the year in which he turns 26 at which time he is over the age of liability. Younger men would not be called in that year until men in the 20-25 age group are called.

Because of the enormous impact of this lottery, it would be conducted publicly, with full coverage by the media. Accredited observers from public interest groups will have full access to observe the proceedings.

To make the lottery as fair as possible, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) developed a unique random calendar and number selection program for Selective Service. Using this random selection method for birthdays, each day of the year is selected by computer in a random manner, and that date is placed in a capsule. The capsules are then loaded in a large drum on a random basis. By the same method, numbers from 1 to 365 (366 for men born in a leap year) are also selected in a random fashion, placed in capsules, and the capsules are placed into a second drum. The process, repeated a second time, results in two sets of drums. Official observers certify that the capsule-filling and drum-loading were conducted according to established procedures. This certification is secured to each drum; they are sealed and placed in secure storage. Should a lottery be conducted, one of the first actions would be an inspection of these stored drums and the selection of a set to be used in the lottery.

Here is how the lottery would work: One capsule is drawn from the drum containing birth dates January 1 through December 31. One capsule is then drawn from the drum containing the sequence numbers from 1 through 365 (366 if the draft will call men born during a leap year) and the date and number are paired to establish the sequence number for each birth date. This is done in full view of all observers, officials, and the media.

For example, if the date of August 4 is drawn first from the "date" drum, and the sequence number of 32 is drawn from the "number's" drum at the same time, then those men turning 20 on August 4 would be ordered for induction processing only after men whose birthdays drew sequence numbers 1 through 31. The drawings continue until all 365 (or 366) birthdays of the year are paired with a sequence number.

After the lottery is completed and results certified, the sequence of call is transmitted to the Selective Service System's Data Management Center. Almost immediately the first induction notices are prepared and sent via mailgram to men whose birth dates drew the lowest lottery numbers.

This system, based on random selection of birth dates, with the order of priority for reporting assigned in a scientifically random manner, is a fair and equitable method of calling men to serve.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » May 23, 2004, 2:28 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
My 28 year old blond hair blue eyed wife also gets checked EVERY single flight.

lol I'm sure she gets checked for less than honorable reasons

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » May 23, 2004, 5:14 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
My 28 year old blond hair blue eyed wife also gets checked EVERY single flight.
lol I'm sure she gets checked for less than honorable reasons

I think he means he checks her with the bags - trophey wife.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 23, 2004, 9:19 pm

just something I noticed

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery ... @L&summ2=m&

COSPONSORS(14), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)
Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/7/2003 [HI-1] Rep Brown, Corrine - 1/28/2003 [FL-3]
Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 5/19/2004 [VI] Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/28/2003 [MO-1]
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/7/2003 [MI-14] Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/28/2003 [MD-7]
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/28/2003 [FL-23] Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/28/2003 [TX-18]
Rep Lewis, John - 1/7/2003 [GA-5] Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/7/2003 [WA-7]
Rep Moran, James P. - 1/28/2003 [VA-8] Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/28/2003 [DC]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/7/2003 [CA-13] Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 1/28/2003 [NY-12]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY AS OF:
1/7/2003--Introduced.
Universal National Service Act of 2003 - Declares that it is the obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the United States, between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a two-year period of national service, unless exempted, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense. Requires induction into national service by the President. Sets forth provisions governing: (1) induction deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including exemption of a conscientious objector from military service that includes combatant training; and (2) discharge following national service.

Amends the Military Selective Service Act to authorize the military registration of females.

take a look at the sponsors, each one of them is a democrat. This is just sounding like another political ploy to me.

VeeshanVault

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