Nuclear, Biological and Chemical

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 19, 2004, 12:12 am

The boogeymen, the scary ones, the 3 first horsemen of the New Apocalypse, riding forth with their compatriot Death. Mankind defeated Pestilence to the point that she could not make the show. Famine is a chosen state for reasons of beauty, and is afraid to venture forth. War, well War himself, sanitized for your protection is going to become a constant state, and like all things of power, the more often they are invoked, the weaker they become. So our new Horsemen ride along with Death.

Man the visuals involved with thinking some things through should be more easily sat on paper. Barring a relapse of society within a few 100 years I can see us actually able to capture an image from minds eye to paper. What a boom in art this would make, no need for the imperfect tools mankind possesses to transmit our vision into reality. Merely hold the image in your head long enough for a scan, and press print, wow, now that would be art.

I am disturbed by the state of the world, it really frightens me at times, for so long I really did not care, but I have a hope for a future now and I see ( insert any other lame analogy here if you would prefer) "Dark clouds on the horizon".

I want to see an entire chain of command of American Soldiers turned over to International Tribunals for War Crimes trials. I would never have conceived such a thing, while serving I knew sick people, I knew people that would have taken advantage of prisoners, but I never knew of an entire command that all felt that way. There can be no excuse, ever soldier is taught the rules of war. Every soldier is taught about the rights prisoners of war possess.

I am tempted to vote for Nader, because I want to vomit other than to see Kerry win, and I am past my point of tolerance with the Bush administration, not for their mistakes, but their intentional misconduct. Ambassador Joe Wilson wrote an article critical of one of the WMD claims and the day after it was published, the Administration (Specifically the staff of the Vice President) leaked that wife was an intelligence operative. This placed her life and national security at stake. Thanks Jon Stewart for having an excellent guest on the Daily show so this could really be brought to my attention. I was amazed at the data from both right and left wing nuts on this issue when I google'd.

I am irked that people seem to think the price of gas is going to be "fixed" yes, it is going to be "fixed" higher. I am betting right now that we will never see gasoline in the midwest under 1.75 a gallon ever again, so much so that if it does, I will eat my hat, or at very least take a pic of me eating my hat and post it. (offer excludes limited promotions heh)

I really think there is not a bright future for humanity overall, I really do feel that barring some major technology improvment or invention, or us deciding to do smart things like exploit space that we are going to see things get worse and worse for the rest of the century. It is an odd thought to bother a normal day, but it creeps up on me at times and I fear that I may be drifting into little aluminum foil hats about it.

People are just so wrong at their core now, so ready to assume dishonorable intent, so ready to condemn ( me included) because it is being taught to us. We (my light and I) we discussing earlier if some stereotypes are in fact because we have learned that certain behaviors equal problems ( Not racial stereotypes before some 12 year old jumps up to comment, but behavioral ones) and that we learn them as a defensive mechanism, like the greasy feeling used car salesman or the sweating insurance guy. But even deeper into it that that down to specific emotional demonstrations equalling certain expected behaviors later.

So you tell me VV, who should we vote for, convince me in one post that youg person can fix the problems of the world.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » May 19, 2004, 1:03 am

First two paragraphs of this post are some astounding imagery and thoughts.

I've often wished for a machine that would - even if I had to pay thousands of dollars to get it to work - print out every image, write out every story, and play every movie I've ever had in my mind. It would be so amazing.

And I like the thought of the NBC being the new apocalypse.. very well said.

Anuin · Post by **Anuin** » May 19, 2004, 1:15 am

War and Peace are cyclical... that means theres a period of war then peace, and so on and so forth. We are currently in a time of war and hostility, which should end eventually. Also times when the executive branch oversteps its boundaries it usually leads to a time of governmental reform. Remember that one thing... oh yeah, the Watergate scandal? The oversight that existed afterwards made some serious institutional changes. Much like the 9/11 hearing will as well.

There isnt impending doom at all. Rising gas prices may make alternative energy a more pressing matter.

Here's a great compelling argument for all of you people who feel the "need" to vote for Nader. Currently in the polls Bush and Kerry are almost in a dead heat, each winning approximately 205 electoral votes, as forcasted. If they dont reach the necessary majority of 270 electoral votes, then the vote gets thrown to the house of representatives. You have then fucked democracy up the ass as a small partisan body elects the leader of the United States. Nader is blamed for Gore's loss in the 2000 elections, he's expected to have the same effect this year.

People are just so wrong at their core now, so ready to assume dishonorable intent, so ready to condemn ( me included) because it is being taught to us.

That is bullshit my friend. You condemn people for condemning, and even if you have a "disclaimer" saying you do it as well doesnt make you any better. Its like premeditated murder opposed to manslaughter, you planned to partake in the crime and you knew about it. If you're going to make a bold statement like the one you made, then you can't straddle the fence... like you're trying to do.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 19, 2004, 9:23 am

Anuin I am not trying to straddle the fence, I just think that at their very core, most of humanity is nothing more than selfish bags of flesh. They cannot see beyond their back yard, and are unable to conceive of concepts such as honor, glory, or self sacrifice. But I am honest enough to recognize that no one is above that, no one is all right in terms of doing everything in an aware manner.

Humans are a fucked up animal, they are born greedy, evil, and without a conscious. We have to teach them each generation, but I honestly feel we are not teaching the newer generations adequately.

I do not think war naturally swings towards peace, our longest periods of peace have historically fallen after periods of war but that was more from the fact that the participants were tired than them being smarter.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 19, 2004, 11:21 am

Our politics and our wars are a reflection of our hearts.

As long as we remain self-centered, and selfish. The chaos of that stance will ripple destruction throughout our society.

You want to change the world for the better? Allow God to heal your heart, and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life.

The encouraging thing is this solution is actionable by the individual.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 19, 2004, 11:29 am

Allow God to heal your heart

Which god???

and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life

except heathens and heretics!

The encouraging thing is this solution is actionable by the individual

Yes. More people becoming devoutly religious is gonna solve a lot of problems. . .

I mean, come ON. How many of the world's problems would have a simpler solution if religion were not involved? Hint: Fucking loads.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 19, 2004, 12:48 pm

You want to change the world for the better? Allow God to heal your heart, and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life.

God and religion is the cause of more wars, conflicts and death than anything else on this planet.

Religion is fine and dandy in concept but history has proven the opposite.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 19, 2004, 3:25 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:You want to change the world for the better? Allow God to heal your heart, and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life.

Unless they are queer. In that case take away their rights and freedoms.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 19, 2004, 4:24 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote: You want to change the world for the better? Allow God to heal your heart, and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life.

How about you take on some personal responsibility for your actions? There's no need to give God credit for good or bad things that happen to you. God doesn't have to heal shit. You need to take control of your mind and choose your own actions based on reason. If you're going to help change the world, God's not going to have anything to do with it.

When I'm sitting in my living room and it's messy, I don't look to god for motivation to clean it. I think to myself, "I almost tripped and broke my fucking neck last night on that beer bottle on the floor...time to clean this place up." The same can be applied on a grander scale to all things without any meddling by some imaginary figure. When I'm selfless to others, it's because I choose to be.

When I have time to fantasize about imaginary figures, I'd rather dream up some naked women than picture some old bearded dude that's here to save me.

You're free to preach on though. That's the beauty of the internet.

Anuin · Post by **Anuin** » May 19, 2004, 8:32 pm

Kylere wrote:I just think that at their very core, most of humanity is nothing more than selfish bags of flesh. They cannot see beyond their back yard, and are unable to conceive of concepts such as honor, glory, or self sacrifice. But I am honest enough to recognize that no one is above that, no one is all right in terms of doing everything in an aware manner.

Humans are a fucked up animal, they are born greedy, evil, and without a conscious. We have to teach them each generation, but I honestly feel we are not teaching the newer generations adequately.

In all reality thats what all animals are, as animals humans are concerned with a primal instinct. Self preservation. Some species of flies are known to live for a day, their primary thought is to mate with another fly and continue their species. The same goes for any animal, although the more complex the organism the more complex self preservation becomes. Wolves hunt in packs with the dominant male that establishes territory in order for their pack to produce pups and continue with their well being. If their food source is threatened by another pack of wolves then they fight them off. In the animal world violence is the supreme answer, and although humans chose to denounce violence, in history almost no conflict has ever come to a true resolution without violence.

Humans are also not alone in the tendencies to wage war. It's been noted in the wild that chimpanzees would pick a certain male of another group and gang up on him beating him savagely and ripping off various body parts for trophies. Humans are not the only animal to be violent. Before humans developed primative communication the only way to express themselves was through action, and if it needed to be violent then it was.

Finally, "honor, glory, or self sacrifice" are not things to be valued. Wars are fought and justified with the notions of honor and glory. Men and women march into war killing under the justification of self sacrifice, and how does one define self sacrifice? Should one society sacrifice itself in order to make the world a better place? To stabilize peace? How does one decide who the "other" is? The world that you want, were everyone forgoes their differences to become better often leads to totalitarianism, where everyone is the "same" but then again no one has anything, as long as they better society.

The supreme value is choice. We are different from animals because we have the choice to do what we believe is right. Much like you're given the choice to vote for who you want, "honor and glory" are justifications to remove choice, its only when people no longer take an active role in preserving our rights, that choice is taken away.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 20, 2004, 10:48 am

Such open hostility to one person's opinion.

Winnow wrote:How about you take on some personal responsibility for your actions? There's no need to give God credit for good or bad things that happen to you......

When I'm sitting in my living room and it's messy, I don't look to god for motivation to clean it.

Winnow, I agree that house cleaning is a personal activity, but sometimes things happen that are way beyond my ability. It is at those times when I know that God was helping me out, and I give him credit.

Kyoukan wrote:Unless they are queer. In that case take away their rights and freedoms

You are horribly off target Kyo,

In God's eyes straight people are just as screwed up as practicing homosexuals. All are imperfect. He loves us all despite this. Our call is to love unconditionally like God does. The first step is to quit being self-centered, and to start being selfless. The effects of many people doing this would heal many wounds in our world.

Miir wrote:God and religion is the cause of more wars, conflicts and death than anything else on this planet.

No Miir, our failures to live up to God's standards are the cause of conflicts and death. Being self centered to the point of causing others around you harm is the cause of wars and conflicts.

vn_Tanc wrote: Which god???

There's only one, but there's a lot of flak in the way sometimes to seeing him.

vn_Tanc wrote:
and be selfless towards the people in your day to day life
except heathens and heretics!

No, a loving and selfless character gives everyone an equal shake.

vn_Tanc wrote:
The encouraging thing is this solution is actionable by the individual
Yes. More people becoming devoutly religious is gonna solve a lot of problems. . .

This isn't about religion. This is about changing who you love. Love yourself at the expense of others? Or love others at the expense of yourself?

If we all made steps towards the second, we'd intertwine our lives into a supportive and unshakable fabric.

It's hard to do. It probably will never happen, but it is a worthy pursuit. Even if you personally make little progress down that path, the good you reap from that small improvement would impact positively those around you.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 20, 2004, 11:12 am

Funny thing is, there are people I would gladly give my life to save without thinking twice. And they would do the same for me. Know the interesting part? None of us is the slightest bit religious.

Religion is a crutch.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 11:34 am

Adex_Xeda wrote: This isn't about religion. This is about changing who you love. Love yourself at the expense of others? Or love others at the expense of yourself?

It's all about religion for you Adex. You have yet to realize that your religious fantasy world is shrinking daily and the only thing growing is the population of atheists that must still deal with all the problems religion causes globally.

If you want to help the world, give jesus a drop-kick out of your front door, taking out the two mormons approaching your home wearing suits and bicycle helmets, and focus on helping all people de-emphasize religion to the point where the killing stops. Maybe we keep one day a year around for religion sort of like Halloween serves for some other outdated cults, but we'll dress up as religious figures...maybe it will turn into a toga party. If we're lucky it will be a day of partying and celebrating that the world has come to grips with the fact that their wild imaginations and greed have been causing ridiculous wars for centuries. I'm all for holidays.

If nothing else, get help and don't subject your kids to the same brainwashing you received. As with prejudice, it carries on from father to son...you can make a difference by stopping it.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » May 20, 2004, 11:41 am

This isn't about religion. This is about changing who you love. Love yourself at the expense of others? Or love others at the expense of yourself?

If we all made steps towards the second, we'd intertwine our lives into a supportive and unshakable fabric.

Down that road lies voluntary slavery.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 20, 2004, 12:41 pm

Kylere asked for a solution to a problem.

I proposed something that actionable by the individual.

It's common sense that a secular person can act on.

Yet, you guys have a sore spot for anything about God and you jump all over me about my faith. In the process you lose the original focus of the thread.

Refocus. Answer Kylere's question.

If you don't like my answer that's ok. Propose your own solution. I'm interested in hearing it.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 20, 2004, 12:44 pm

What was the question? I had to stop reading after boogeymen and 3 horsemen of the apocalypse, it was a bit too much to take coming from him.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 20, 2004, 12:49 pm

Reading is Fundamental

"So you tell me VV, who should we vote for, convince me in one post that your person can fix the problems of the world."

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 20, 2004, 12:50 pm

That's the question? Man, why all the bullshit up front then. There's only one answer to that question. It can't be done.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 20, 2004, 1:30 pm

Love yourself at the expense of others? Or love others at the expense of yourself?

If we all made steps towards the second, we'd intertwine our lives into a supportive and unshakable fabric

Tsk tsk. Liberal leftist woolly-headed utopian nonsense, Adex! The Brothers Dimm will be on their way to have words with you any moment now I'm sure.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 20, 2004, 3:40 pm

I stand by my suggestion. It's proven to work independant of culture and it can exist outside any particular religious leaning.

Seriously Tanc, I thought you stodgy old brits had all the answers.
What's your idea for making the world better?
What can the individual do?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 3:49 pm

I'm pretty sure that if you believe in God everything will be A-OK.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 20, 2004, 5:19 pm

Other than making fun of me, do you have a solution to offer Winnow?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 20, 2004, 8:38 pm

I don't even know what this thread is about. I'm just here to say random things and post random pictures.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 20, 2004, 9:01 pm

God is love, All you need is love, the Beatles said that, Therefore John, Paul, George and Ringo are Prophets.

But seriously folks, I hear a lot of complaining in the current events threads, and I have decideded to change my vote, so who is going to make it right?

Or what even, or when or why, what is the solution to pushing back the Horsemen? The only answer I have heard is religion, for all those spouting off at the lips against it, I do not hear any suggestions. Or is religion the only problem with the world and you all feel a deep seated need to attack it rather than just saying that. What gives, I hear from people posting here all the time that they know the right way, the wrong way and can tell the difference. I am a bit shaken in my view of the future, and am willing to hear you all present your points. Whatever you post, no matter who you are, I will take you seriously ( except Xzion, and that is because I will never believe little rich boys from Florida who smoke too much dope could possibly have the answer, well you know what... I would even give Xzion a hearing.

Have you ever wanted to turn someone to your point of view? Then give it to me, logically and factually to the best of your ability why I should vote for, or back who or what.

If you cannot tell me what you believe in then perhaps you should be reading others posts also.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 21, 2004, 11:35 am

i wish i had more time to read through this post. my personal opinion is that this world is polarizing, more and more i believe people will become more good or more evil, religion aside. who we vote for in one election WILL NOT solve our problems. we need to be more involved in the decision making of our country (myself included). what will solve many of our problems is how we treat each other. that means treating prisoners in Iraq with respect too. i agree completely with Kylere about seeing a whole chain of command be involved in something like that. it appalls me. since i've been here i've come to look at things differently. i won't get into that but while i still wish to see terrorists die, death itself seems so much more grotesque. not gory but sad and ultimately depressing that so many people don't value human life.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 21, 2004, 11:40 am

Voting is a response to the averaged morality of a voting body. If you want to see better voting, work towards improving the group morality of the voters.

If you want to see better politicians to vote for, work towards improving your community and the group morality of those around you.

How do you improve the group morality? Act in a manner that you'd like others to act. If you think people should stop littering along a trashed out park, then act by being the first to pick up the trash. If you think there's too many people dieing from drunks driving home from the bars, work towards forming a "Drunk Dial a Ride" volunteer service. (They have one in my town)

Act in the way you want to see others to act. Give of yourself. That kind of thing rubs off and when enough people assume this attitude, they change the community.... or world around them.

Do you want a better politician to vote for? Be selfless towards others, and a good politician will eventually be born of community you nurture.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 21, 2004, 11:48 am

voting is not a "moral" choice accross the population.

it is for your subset Adex. But to extend that to the whole is inaccurate. Many persons vote based on whether they feel their financial interests will be served, whether they feel that the person is a more capable executive, etc.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 21, 2004, 12:27 pm

Seriously Tanc, I thought you stodgy old brits had all the answers.
What's your idea for making the world better?
What can the individual do?

I'm just jerking your chain Adex. Being a bit less selfish and a bit nicer to each other is a fine idea (be it triggered by religious belief or just secular common sense) but it doesn't appeal to the grasping selfish hordes brought up to believe that the world will never be a better place so we may as well just buy bigger guns and prepare to fuck others over instead of getting fucked over ourselves.
Unfortunately the world needs a lot more fairness, prosperity and better education before we have any chance of realizing this crazy dream of a nicer humanity. Being nice is a luxury too few can afford.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » May 21, 2004, 1:32 pm

voting is not a "moral" choice accross the population.

Actually, it is, Voro: you vote on a candidate you think will best represent and address your concerns to your government. Your judgement is made based on your personal values thus it is a "moral" choice in that regard.

The big thing about this thread however, is that Kylere is asking for a simple answer to a complex problem. There is no easy answer. I really do echo Tanc's sentiment about our society. You can live a life in which you give to others but at the same time you need to be prepared to have that taken advantage of, by people less scrupulous than you.

With regard to an election, all you can do is break it down into more managable issues. Who best reflects your positions and priorities on:

- foreign affairs
- economic issues
- social issues
- environmental issues
- various regional issues
- whatever else is of concern to you in the campaign

You then need vote for the person/party who best represents those interests, even if it is not the party that you are "traditionally" affiliated with. The ugly truth about politics is that they are full of compromises, and with a 2 party system like the US has, it means even more compromises than a mutliparty system, do to the "reaching out" of the parties to lure extremes into their camp.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 21, 2004, 1:44 pm

Pick abortion for instance, or heavy drugs.

People have made a moral decision about the right and wrong of those practices. Their moral decision as a whole has propagated through voting and law to reflect that group's averaged morality.

On decisive issues the averaged morality flips back and fort.

On non decisive issues like theft for instance the averaged morality is strongly on one side.

We make moral judgements all the time. Our laws reflect this.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 22, 2004, 12:36 pm

Wulfy, I am asking for an answer to a complex problem, yes, but not necessarily a simple one.

I will read whatever someone has to say, I do not want the huge quote a thon, but in someones own words why they back who/what they back.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 23, 2004, 3:04 pm

George Washington said three things would destroy this country. i don't remember the first one but the other two are entangling alliances and political parties. while a two party system sucks and political parties suck in general, there will never be a democracy without them. IT's ALL ABOUT POWER. that's ALL the leaders of both parties care about. granted there are exceptions but it's almost pointless to vote for a third party, almost.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 23, 2004, 10:55 pm

Kylere wrote:So you tell me VV, who should we vote for, convince me in one post that youg person can fix the problems of the world.

A politician that can fix the problems of the world does not exist.

I vote for the party (Canadian MPs tow the party line way more than US representatives so unfortunately the local candidate really isn't a factor for me) that will:

1) do the least amount of damage.
2) do the most good.

In that order.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 24, 2004, 1:14 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:In God's eyes straight people are just as screwed up as practicing homosexuals. All are imperfect. He loves us all despite this. Our call is to love unconditionally like God does. The first step is to quit being self-centered, and to start being selfless. The effects of many people doing this would heal many wounds in our world.

uh-huh. just like all that love god was showing in the story of Sodom and Gomora?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 24, 2004, 1:29 pm

Zamtuk wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:In God's eyes straight people are just as screwed up as practicing homosexuals. All are imperfect. He loves us all despite this. Our call is to love unconditionally like God does. The first step is to quit being self-centered, and to start being selfless. The effects of many people doing this would heal many wounds in our world.
uh-huh. just like all that love god was showing in the story of Sodom and Gomora?

They were warned.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » May 24, 2004, 2:04 pm

Zamtuk wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:In God's eyes straight people are just as screwed up as practicing homosexuals. All are imperfect. He loves us all despite this. Our call is to love unconditionally like God does. The first step is to quit being self-centered, and to start being selfless. The effects of many people doing this would heal many wounds in our world.
uh-huh. just like all that love god was showing in the story of Sodom and Gomora?

Interesting thread. . .

Disclaimer: I'm not religious.

As far as Sodom and Gomora and modern christians goes, that god of the old testament is "different" than the god of the new testament. After jesus, god rewrote the rules and basically negated everything that he held people to. The new and improved god is now bound by the 'covenant' that jesus made. The old testament is only in the bible as a reference point to better understand biblical history.

It's difficult to use old testament stories to argue points with modern christians. Same with using catholic decisions (Council of Nicene, The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Indulgences, etc...) to argue discrepancies in fundamental christian beliefs. Christians have had a very good way of ducking responsibility for their beliefs when god or the bible is put on trial. "Human fallibility" is the usual excuse for any discrepant behavior.

To briefly attempt to follow the intent of the thread:

It's my belief that as the world gets "smaller," the differences between peoples get much more prounounced. Mankind has usually feared drastic change over gradual change, and the last 50 years have shown the most drastic change in the way people interact since language. I don't think that leadership of countries can really affect that until people, in general, learn to accept differences (if not, respect them.)

I like how Forthe approached the voting issue. While voting for economic or social reasons may satisfy your personal virtues, if you're more interested at looking at the big picture, I think he's got it boiled down to the least common denominator.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 24, 2004, 2:30 pm

Pahreyia wrote: As far as Sodom and Gomora and modern christians goes, that god of the old testament is "different" than the god of the new testament. After jesus, god rewrote the rules and basically negated everything that he held people to. The new and improved god is now bound by the 'covenant' that jesus made. The old testament is only in the bible as a reference point to better understand biblical history.

It's time to rewrite the bible again! Christians are looking pretty stupid these days.

My suggestion to religious peeps...take some advice from ATI. Their drivers sucked and weren't revised very often...now they revise their drivers on a regular basis and have great cards as well. Edit those bibles! Delete whatever isn't cool these days. Either allow priests to be pedophiles or write a rule against it. I'd suggest weekly revisions of the bible and whatever other scriptures are out there to keep yourselves from looking like bafoons.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 24, 2004, 2:52 pm

Bible 2.1b build0098456

Warning: Reading and living your life by this build can do damage to your life and the lives of those around you. Unless you are very well versed in scripture, try Bible 2.0.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 24, 2004, 6:38 pm

The old testiment teachings fit right in with what Jesus was doing. The law still serves as a guide. It's just that now the law isn't the method to hell avoidance. Jesus is.

Jesus didn't rewrite so much as he did fullfill all the things the old testiment was prefacing.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » May 24, 2004, 7:00 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:The old testiment teachings fit right in with what Jesus was doing. The law still serves as a guide. It's just that now the law isn't the method to hell avoidance. Jesus is.

Jesus didn't rewrite so much as he did fullfill all the things the old testiment was prefacing.

Read the old testament lately? Your god was a pretty vengeful guy. I don't see anything about jesus saying "hey, those sorry saps over there are my enslaved brothers. Let em go or I'm going to have my god plague you with shit like bloody water, locusts and frogs from the heavens. Not to mention he'll summon arch-angels to go through and slaughter all your newborns."

The old testament god and the new testament jesus-god are two very different personalities. Christians can play it off like jesus' covenant was for a new age or whatever, but I've read several psycological profiles done by ivy league psycologists that talk about the 'personalities of god.' I'll see if I can dig up a few links tonight or tomorrow and post them.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 25, 2004, 11:05 am

If you read the bible you'll see that God is consistantly portrayed in both works. His anger at sin is still there, as it his great love, as is his justice for the innocent and the guilty. The only thing that has changed is his approach to dealing with us.

Read the book, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Better yet allow me to give you some more focused suggestions. Read the old testiment book of Isaiah and then go read the new testiment book of Revelations.

You will see that God is consistantly portrayed.

VeeshanVault

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