iraq hostage ...

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » May 12, 2004, 8:23 pm

Its always easier not to care until "one of your own" is killed. It happens all around the world.

Who cares how many catholics die, but man you kill a protestant, thats just wrong (an example of n.ireland, on a small scale to what is happening in iraq, but no less true)

noel · Post by **noel** » May 12, 2004, 8:29 pm

I'm staying out of the bullshit being tossed back and forth on this thread.

I agree with Janx, I'd rather have the option of being shot. That's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen.

It's sad that there's a part of me that wonders if the masked men were really CIA operatives acting in a move to take heat off of the Bush administration.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 12, 2004, 8:40 pm

Okay let me recover this, I am not crying for Berg at all. If you choose to make money by entering a war zone, I am not feeling for you. It sounds heartless, but what kind of clue does it take to not do things like that. Hell I have been in a cakewalk war zone and it was not fun, and I have seen the aftermath of another, neither is a place you want to be playing around as a lone civilian businessman. I have a heart for his family because I am sure none of them wanted him to go.

Just as I felt bad for the families of those who died on the USS Cole, in multiple embassies, the Pentagon itself. But I did not feel for the soldiers, they choose to go into harms way at the behest of their country and died with honor, it is pathetic to dishonor them by having pity for their end. I felt for the civilians in the WTC, I feel for the Iraqi people who died in innocence, but I do not feel bad for the Iraqi soldiers that died.

The reason it effects Americans so much overall is that we are shocked, horrified and disgusted when our people even degrade a captured enemy, much less kill one. But no one on the planet is surprised that these people would saw off a mans neck and tape it. That makes me feel a lot better to be an American and pains my heart equally. Because no one expects us to behave this way, and it happens because no group of humans is perfect. But these people dishonor humanity and their God as a matter of course.

I pray fervently that the next human being that murders in the name of a peaceful God, gets to go to him immediatedly, my God is anti-killing in his name, and is tolerant of those who do not believe in him. And the next, and the next until they are no longer able to breed such insanity within the race. I have my faith, you all have yours, but no one needs to die over them. Anyone sane, be they Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or even some goth chick who worhips Marilyn Manson would never kill rightfully in the name of their god.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 12, 2004, 8:43 pm

[quote="Aranuil"]I'm staying out of the bullshit being tossed back and forth on this thread.

I agree with Janx, I'd rather have the option of being shot. That's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen.

It's sad that there's a part of me that wonders if the masked men were really CIA operatives acting in a move to take heat off of the Bush administration.[/quote]

Umm Aranuil, I wonder if the CIA planted that suggestion in your head using subliminal programming during all the Britney Spears videos you have been spanking off and watching.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 12, 2004, 8:51 pm

Sorry to disappoint you Kylere, but doubtful. Brittney doesn't do it for me.

The CIA/US government has in the past been involved in some fairly well-documented and shady activity. I live under the assumption that the ends will justify the means, and that the US government has the best interest of its citizens at heart. Whether you like the idea or not, it is not out of the realm of possibility.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 12, 2004, 8:56 pm

People die horrifically in war...it is the nature of the beast...Burning someone to death with incendiary weapons by remote control is no less horrific than sawing their neck off with a knife...If you were alive during Vietnam you will perhaps remember the horror of watching humans burn to death (I often wish I could forget that.)...Do not think the deaths that you don't see are more humane or less cruel...Do not think for a minute that people have not been slowly crushed to death in the rubble created by our surgical bombs...Do not think that people have not been trapped and slowly suffocated or starved to death...

Our weapons and technology have distanced us from the ultimate product of their intent...death...but it is there at the end of the missle's flight...

War is abhorrent folks...and should never be considered when political discourse offers a possible solution...

noel · Post by **noel** » May 12, 2004, 8:58 pm

Totally agree.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 12, 2004, 9:01 pm

/applaud

Karae · Post by **Karae** » May 12, 2004, 9:32 pm

I feel pity for him only because he is another in a long line of casualties brought on by this unjust, immoral, and ultimately pointless war.

In the end, he chose to be there. He either understood the risks and accepted them or chose to ignore them. Either way, it was his decision to die this way.

In the end, he's one more body for the pile. He, like Pat Tillman, doesn't deserve any special recognition, outrage, or mourning.

This is the consequence of disregarding another nations sovereignty and villainously invading without cause. Violence begets violence - a tired cliche but true nonetheless. If you're ok with tens of thousands of people dying, every single one of them as gruesome and disturbing a death as Berg, so we can continue to pollute for 10 to 15 cents less a gallon and George W. Bush can one up his dad by finishing the war he didn't there's something wrong with you.

To date, this war has accomplished nothing (READ: NOT A GOD DAMN THING) other than remove Saddam from power and replace him with thousands of terrorists. I'm certainly comfortable with trading one enemy we know with thousands we do not.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 12, 2004, 10:02 pm

Sad but true.

Sadaam being out of power is ultimately meaningless given the mess we have now.

Abelard · Post by **Abelard** » May 12, 2004, 10:19 pm

I just wish all this death would stop.

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » May 12, 2004, 10:47 pm

does anyone have the original clip on their computer, i saw it earlier, deleted it(did this twice) then got it again and its an edited version(cuts out all the talk in the middle)

that clip really put the war into perspective for me, the american hostiges started the ball rolling that that finished
and all the american troops fucking people up as well

does anyone have a link to the helicopter vid clip, ive not seen that one

im trying to build up a small library of inspiration for some anti-war composition(s) im going to shell out

now back to OT

the fact that anyone can in any way justify what happened in that clip, or the ones done by americans, is seriously unfathomable, in a very literal sense
i cant stomach the fact that someone, somewhere is sitting behind a computer, thinking that what they saw was alright, and typing up a storm here about it

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 12, 2004, 11:21 pm

Arborealus wrote:War is abhorrent folks...and should never be considered when political discourse offers a possible solution...

You had to act before Iraq invaded you.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » May 12, 2004, 11:31 pm

Put saddam back in power and itll all go back to being better.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 12, 2004, 11:35 pm

Raistin, careful posting that, Aranuilwill become convinced we are holding him to brainwash him into covering for the President and lead Iraq like we want him to...

Arilain · Post by **Arilain** » May 13, 2004, 2:37 am

You know we should all go back to an isolationist policy like we had before WW2. Screw international trade, allies, treaties etc. You know all the things most of you all bitch about would be solved then. However think about history for a sec.....

Oh yeah that shit didn't work did it? War is not a pretty sight and as Americans we are desensitized(sp?) to death. Also think before you critize the reservists that humiliated (not killed) Iraqis in captivity. Where is the outrage from the public from the US soldiers killing German POWs? Or how we shot surrendering Japanese? This shit isn't new at all. And for those that don't know a Dishonerable discharge really fucks you over for the rest of your life.

I vote for the isolationist policy myself. Fuck the world they can go to hell.

Arilain

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 13, 2004, 3:42 am

Kyuokan, my god tells me that you are going to hell for your views and that you should die for not agreeing with me. he also said that the americans are wrong for wasting their energy building schools and stuff, don't they understand they're there to kill civilians? oh and he says that the terrorists are on the right track because they are not wasting time HELPING people, killing solves everything, as long as it's justified.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 13, 2004, 5:56 am

Kyuokan, my god tells me that you are going to hell for your views and that you should die for not agreeing with me

I think you mean "certain men's interpretation of what God says tells me that you etc blah".

I just want to comment on the "this act is getting applause from all over" (Pahreyia) and "the difference is that these acts in the prison represent a minority" (Pahreyia again). Which implies muslim applause for this atrocity is not a minority action.
I think you should make fewer assumptions and talk less crap, frankly. Arab opinion seems split 95%/5% against this action from the opinions I've been reading. These are the actions of a minority. A bunch of twisted fucks who have no interest in Iraq or anything they just want to fight and kill Americans because they subscribe to a mutilated version of their faith.

But anyway I'm with Arbor on this. This kind of shit is EXACTLY WHY I was against war to start with. War cannot be controlled. It should always be the absolutely final option.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » May 13, 2004, 6:34 am

The simple fact is that for those five men that performed this, from behind masks, it was nothing more than killing another Jew, and sweeter still that it was an American one. That they could use it as a tool, with hopes of subverting Bush in an election year, was even better for them. It was calculated to do exactly this- get us even more riled up. It is a question of force and power. Nothing less, nothing more. That Nick Berg was a pawn is unfortunate, but ultimately it remains to be seen who will wield the most power.

There seems to be an opinion from many of you that this is justifiable in light of the 10,000 Iraqi civilian casualties. My only question is how many more will now die, in Nick Berg's name, as a result of this?

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 13, 2004, 7:00 am

There seems to be an opinion from many of you that this is justifiable in light of the 10,000 Iraqi civilian casualties

I think it's more a case of understanding that certain lunatics would use it as justification. I can't think of anything that would justify such a horrific act.
On the other hand horrific death is what happens when you start wars.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » May 13, 2004, 10:48 am

I would perfer a fucking scimitar and one quick stroke, personally. That video clip (inparticular, the screams) got to me. Still, glad to know that human nature leaning to the horrific is not exclusive to the United States.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » May 13, 2004, 1:53 pm

If Russians invaded my country under the guise of eliminating all terrorists, and in the process my wife and four children were blown to pieces, I would have no problem with beheading one of their citizens I happened upon. I would regret it later, but I would have revenge on my mind. Matter of fact, I would have most likely saved the head for last, he's got 4 limbs I can hack off first. The human side of this is terrible, I don't condone what they did, but I understand it.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » May 13, 2004, 2:17 pm

wow that was major gross for those that didn't watch the video .. they sawed his head off starting from the front side

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » May 13, 2004, 10:19 pm

Drasta wrote:wow that was major gross for those that didn't watch the video ..

If they didnt watch the video, most likely they don't want to know exactly how it was done.

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » May 14, 2004, 12:40 am

Anyone who an defend that horrific act just to prop up fucking Democrats versus Republicans and "I hate Bush" has lost thier ticket to the human race.

I had wrote 5 more paragraphs on not letting your side politically cause you to embrace insanity ( and yes this includes conservatives defending the assholes tormenting Iraqi prisoners) but it really isn't worth it and just deleted. Any kind of defense of this act speaks for who you are.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 14, 2004, 1:18 am

I just wrote a 5 paragraph response to you that presented the clearest argument in the history of debate that shows undoubtedly why this is the perfect reason John Kerry should be president and I deleted it too.

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » May 14, 2004, 1:39 am

The fact that you respond to this about Kerry vs Bush just proves my point, you are the sickest bitch crawling the planet.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 14, 2004, 1:47 am

a vote for kerry is a vote for not being executed by islamic fundies!

Acies · Post by **Acies** » May 14, 2004, 1:56 am

You know, I recently read a comment from that web site that ran along the lines of "America needs to start it's own terrorist organization. For every one American killed in such a fashion, we take fifty of them and do the same thing, then splash pig blood on their corpse to ban them from Allah in the afterlife."

Someone please tell me why human beings are really the only race on this planet that does not deserve to exist? What the fuck makes us so selectively evil, and why can't we learn to co-exist in peace? You know, the vast majority of people are either on one side of the fence or another regarding this issue. Either we feel the need for vengence, or we feel that Nick earned what he had coming to him.

In my mind, both sides are wrong. The fact that a human being did that to another is wrong. The fact that there is a debate about this being justified or not, is wrong. The only thing I can say that would even be remotely right in this situation, is this:

Nicholas Burgman: Rest in peace, I am sorry that happened to you.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » May 14, 2004, 2:31 am

I think there is too much hate in this world over things that are ultimately transitory and fleeting.

I won't watch the video.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 14, 2004, 3:10 am

humans don't have an exclusive on being violent and barbaric. just about every social animal is just as bad. most primates fight and kill each other over dominance, and fight and kill other tribes for territory. wolf packs will kill other wolves over territory, as will whales and sharks and foxes and weasels and ants and bees. the head of a pride of lions will kill and eat male baby lions so they won't grow older and challenge his dominance.

just about the coolest animal ever is the grizzly bear. when they mark out their territory they go up on their hind legs and gouge their claws into trees as high as they can. when other bears wander into a bear's territory, they reach up and try to get their claw marks in higher than the first bear. if they can't reach then they go look for somewhere else to live because they assume the first bear is bigger and could kick it's ass.

then the bear probably gets shot by a "sportsman" at 500 meters with a .500 caliber weatherbee and a 14x telescopic NV scope.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » May 14, 2004, 3:43 am

kyoukan wrote:humans don't have an exclusive on being violent and barbaric. just about every social animal is just as bad. most primates fight and kill each other over dominance, and fight and kill other tribes for territory. wolf packs will kill other wolves over territory, as will whales and sharks and foxes and weasels and ants and bees. the head of a pride of lions will kill and eat male baby lions so they won't grow older and challenge his dominance.

just about the coolest animal ever is the grizzly bear. when they mark out their territory they go up on their hind legs and gouge their claws into trees as high as they can. when other bears wander into a bear's territory, they reach up and try to get their claw marks in higher than the first bear. if they can't reach then they go look for somewhere else to live because they assume the first bear is bigger and could kick it's ass.

then the bear probably gets shot by a "sportsman" at 500 meters with a .500 caliber weatherbee and a 14x telescopic NV scope.

You are right about humans not being the only violent species on the planet. However, I would not attribute evil to animals, or their instincts. I have never witnessed or heard of an animal who attacked out of malice, or greed. I don't know. Maybe I am just being overly preachy and dismissive of my own race. It just seems that animals kill to survive, but not to live. Anyway, end tangent.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » May 14, 2004, 10:03 am

It is not surprising that Kyoukan (hate filled, no compassion) would call a young man an idiot and literally justify his murder because of the actions of the US military.

Your logic, moral compass, and character are as flawed as your opinion. NO ONE deserves to die the way this young man did.

READ he is an american, not military.

I guess if one of the terror cells in Canada were to grab you because of Canada's support of the war on terror and shorten you by a head it would be fine and you would sit on your smoldering ass in hell saying YEP I SHURE DESERVED THAT CAUSE I AM AN IDIOT CANADIAN WHOSE GOVT SUPPORTED THE WAR ON TERROR.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » May 14, 2004, 10:30 am

For fuck's sake, stalker. Give it a rest.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » May 14, 2004, 10:49 am

Hey Tanc was I talking to you?
Nope. So your comment is Noted and now ignored.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 14, 2004, 10:58 am

Please give me the STFU ability back.. ugh.

Fredonia Coldheart · Post by **Fredonia Coldheart** » May 14, 2004, 11:07 am

Atokal wrote:It is not surprising that Kyoukan (hate filled, no compassion) would call a young man an idiot and literally justify his murder because of the actions of the US military.

Your logic, moral compass, and character are as flawed as your opinion. NO ONE deserves to die the way this young man did.

READ he is an american, not military.

I guess if one of the terror cells in Canada were to grab you because of Canada's support of the war on terror and shorten you by a head it would be fine and you would sit on your smoldering ass in hell saying YEP I SHURE DESERVED THAT CAUSE I AM AN IDIOT CANADIAN WHOSE GOVT SUPPORTED THE WAR ON TERROR.

She didn't justify his murder - she called him an idiot! And while I feel sorry for his family, he was an idiot! I would call him a very good candidate for this year's Darwin award!

He was a Jewish American with stamps from Isreal in his passport running around Iraq with communications equipment. He was actually picked up by the Iraqi police and held a couple of weeks and investigated by the FBI. When the FBI determined he was just an idiot and the Iraqi police released him, the FBI offered to get him safe passage out of Iraq which he refused! A week later he was dead.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » May 14, 2004, 1:14 pm

kyoukan wrote:yes but you have to understand that the prison guards are only raping and killing muslims, not actual real people. but when an american is killed that is something totally different. let's all fucking hold hands and sing songs about this injustice while we completely ignore the tens of thousands of iraqi civilians that have died in the last year.

get some fucking perspective.

Justification

I submit the following article from a respected Muslim Professor:

BEHEADING, PRISON ABUSES CAN'T BE LINKED

By SALIM MANSUR
Thursday, May 13, 2004

THIS WEEK'S videotaped beheading of Nick Berg, a 26-year old American civilian contractor, by al-Qaida-associated insurgents in Iraq is consistent with the practice of Muslim fascists -- as we saw in the murder of journalist Daniel Pearl in Karachi, in February 2002.

Only the misinformed, and those who wilfully dissemble facts, will concoct linkage between abuses in Abu Ghraib prison by American soldiers, and the ritual murder of a defenceless individual taped for broadcast to the world.

This is barbarism in full flight. And it has a lengthy, sordid history within the Arab-Muslim world.

We have seen images of such barbarity as in the ritual killings of veiled women in crowded public stadiums of Afghanistan under the Taliban, and the sadistic killing in public of Najibullah, the former Afghan leader, with his testicles removed and his orifices stuffed with cigarette stubs.

We see it in the cold-blooded murder of a eight-months- pregnant Israeli woman, Tali Hatuel, 34, and her four young daughters, by Palestinian jihadists in Gaza -- and, again in Gaza, in the desecration of the bodies of six Israeli soldiers killed in an explosion.

The fascism of those Muslims, sometimes abetted by power holders in the Arab-Muslim world, who victimized Muslims in Afghanistan or Pakistan without the world paying attention, has gone global.

The dissemblers of this history, and the ostrich-like lib-left crowd in the West, are in denial of what is at stake in the war on terror since 9/11.

But the outrage over abuses in Abu Ghraib, legitimate as it is, is also a backhanded admission that the rest of the world demands and expects from the United States a model of behaviour it is incapable of on its own.

It may well be that the American public may decide to throw in the towel on Iraq and the war on terror, un-elect the sitting president, push a new president to set the pace for isolationist policies, outsource America's responsibilities for peace, security and development to the United Nations, and turn within itself -- while enemies of freedom and civilization dance to the noise of their cult of nihilism and death.

Then again, the same American public, presented with pictures of smoke and debris from Ground Zero in New York and those from Abu Ghraib, may decide there are inevitable costs in defeating enemies of civilization, and stay the course with the present administration.

Bismarck, the iron chancellor of Germany in the 19th century, reputedly remarked that those fond of sausage also avoid seeing how it is prepared. The same applies for those living in a liberal democracy who disdainfully avoid knowing its history and requirements for its defence.

Those living under various types of dictatorships can be excused for their limited understanding or ignorance of what constitutes a liberal democracy, with its fine balance between individual rights and the requirements of security.

But citizens of a liberal democracy cannot be excused for refusing to understand how delicately balanced such a political system is, how great has been the cost of its making, and to what length its enemies are willing to go to destroy it.

The U.S. is not merely another country, or even another liberal democracy. It is the first-born of the great experiment in the political ideas of Enlightenment, a child of modernity itself in whose mature embrace rests the hopes of all those wanting individual rights and freedom for themselves.

This is why so much more is expected of Americans, and not of anyone else, and why the rebuke by those faulting America (who shed no tear for victims of Saddam Hussein) has been so exaggerated.
[/img]

Fredonia Coldheart · Post by **Fredonia Coldheart** » May 14, 2004, 2:01 pm

Atokal wrote:
kyoukan wrote:yes but you have to understand that the prison guards are only raping and killing muslims, not actual real people. but when an american is killed that is something totally different. let's all fucking hold hands and sing songs about this injustice while we completely ignore the tens of thousands of iraqi civilians that have died in the last year.

get some fucking perspective.
Justification

If you call that her justifying his murder I think you need a dictionary for your birthday. She is correctly showing how hypocritical it is of most Americans to bemoan the death of a single American civilian (a total idiot at that) when they don't even bat an eye at the thousands of Iraqi civilians who have been killed.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 14, 2004, 2:11 pm

Hey guys, did you know that it's possible to simultaneously oppose TWO actions?!?!?!??!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 14, 2004, 2:57 pm

Sueven wrote:Hey guys, did you know that it's possible to simultaneously oppose TWO actions?!?!?!??!

LOL post of the year right there.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 14, 2004, 4:57 pm

I just have to wonder how many "civilian" casualites there are due to suicide bombers? It just doesn't make sense to kill 20 bystanders to kill that 1 American.

What we did to those prisoners was an embarrassment and caused severe disappointment to me. I would have felt better about our stance on it if Bush were to state in an interview, "This really pisses me off" instead of being all political.

The beheading: Does anyone really think that they needed an excuse to chop a guys head off? I think revenge was just an excuse of convienence than anything that had true meaning to them. I won't watch the video.

As far as going into Canada and "killing more innocent civilians", well maybe just one.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » May 14, 2004, 5:52 pm

I admit that for once I found something Atokal posted to be of some interest to me. I can agree philosophically with a great deal in that argument, however, where I see it falling down is in the application.

But citizens of a liberal democracy cannot be excused for refusing to understand how delicately balanced such a political system is, how great has been the cost of its making, and to what length its enemies are willing to go to destroy it.

The question this passage simply begs is if we aware of what our political system has cost us, then how do we justify discarding the sacrifices of those who fought to make it our choice, and IMPOSE our beliefs on another sovereign nation?

Another passage that interested me is this one:

This is why so much more is expected of Americans, and not of anyone else, and why the rebuke by those faulting America (who shed no tear for victims of Saddam Hussein) has been so exaggerated.

The least of what was expected of the USA (by other countires) was the same respect for the lives of another countries civilian population that they demand for their own citizens. THIS is the primary fault the Western World has found with the USA's action. The actions of the prison guards accentuate this lack of respect for the lives of Iraqi people. The US government tried to paint a picture of the Great Liberator and Bringer of Justice, yet some soldiers have resorted to the same thuggery of the regime they just toppled. How are people supposed to see a difference? IS there one?

The fact is 10,000+ Iraqi civilians are dead, who would not have died if the USA had not invaded Iraq. To the bulk of the world, there was no justification for this. Try and camoflage it in "suicide bombers" and "human shields", but it doesn't change the fact those people died as direct result of US Government action. No invasion = no deaths. This doesn't mention Iraqi and coalition military personnel.

If the people in Iraq wanted democracy they would have found a way to bring it about, rather than have it imposed upon them. I mean seriously, if the US allows the Iraqis free elections and a regime that opposes US presence in Iraq is elected, then what? Invade and "re-liberate"?

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » May 14, 2004, 6:23 pm

What about the Quality of Life? There is more to life than just living. Granted I hate the thought of trying to dictate what kind of life is better but there are some standards of a "good" life that we can all agree on. I am not trying to justify the death of all these people. This has been a horrible thing all the way around.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 14, 2004, 6:24 pm

Atokal wrote:Hey Tanc was I talking to you?

hey. was I talking to you?

noel · Post by **noel** » May 14, 2004, 6:51 pm

Janx · Post by **Janx** » May 14, 2004, 7:19 pm

Aranuil for teh win!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 15, 2004, 8:49 am

Toker as much as I love ya man you have to admit the Picture is funny as hell.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 15, 2004, 9:37 am

Atokal wrote:Only the misinformed, and those who wilfully dissemble facts, will concoct linkage between abuses in Abu Ghraib prison by American soldiers, and the ritual murder of a defenceless individual taped for broadcast to the world.

And only a complete fucking idiot (not you for a change!) would type up this bullshit without translating what the terrorists said. If he actually would have translated what they said, instead of waving the American flag in a Canadian newspaper, he would have known that they tried to trade Berg for some prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison. But of course, we told them to go fuck themselves.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » May 15, 2004, 11:54 am

Actually, I thought they were chanting "God is great" as they sawed off his head...