Prisoners with wires attached to their genitals

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 1, 2004, 10:07 pm

Vetiria wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
Of course, let's let our soldiers act just like Saddam Hussein. Why did we invade the country again?

It's a fucking war. Put aside your bleeding hearts which you didn't have for the Iraqi people, but seem to have now for the Iraqi soldiers who are trying to kill our US soldiers.

Wow, you guys are so funny.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » May 1, 2004, 10:18 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.

You're kidding right? Fueling the fire? Please tell me you are kidding.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 1, 2004, 10:18 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Voronwë wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
well considering a huge problem with Iraq is "winning hearts and minds", and these pictures are not doing that now that they are out in circulation.

If the US does not respond in a very public and forceful way to these actions it will be absolutely devastating to our efforts in Iraq.

How can we come into Iraq and say we are liberating them from oppression and then these images be shown on TV and have ANY credibility.

our credibility is absolutely critical to the success of our mission in Iraq. If we cannot get the people on board with us, they will continue to strengthen the numbers of the insurgency, and we are completely fucked.

And if we lose in Iraq, we have likely created a much worse enemy than we ever had before 9/11/2001.

this prisoner mistreatment is a collassal blunder, and if not handled properly could be a complete unmitigated dissaster for the US.

So i think in that regard, if you are "thinking of us" and more specifically the interests of the United States, you would want swift, publicized discipline for these soldiers.
The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.

Good Dog...now Roll Over...

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 1, 2004, 10:28 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Vetiria wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
Of course, let's let our soldiers act just like Saddam Hussein. Why did we invade the country again?
It's a fucking war. Put aside your bleeding hearts which you didn't have for the Iraqi people, but seem to have now for the Iraqi soldiers who are trying to kill our US soldiers.

Wow, you guys are so funny.

If it's okay for US soldiers to torture Iraqi's, why was it so bad that Hussein did it?

Edit: I can't believe I wasted my 1000th post on you, you stupid fucking moron.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 1, 2004, 11:43 pm

who the hell said it was ok? i certainley didn't say that. did you midnight? that's the only way so many of you can prop up your arguments is to put words in other pepole's mouths and state their supposed opinion for them.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 2, 2004, 12:33 am

nobody wrote:who the hell said it was ok? i certainley didn't say that. did you midnight? that's the only way so many of you can prop up your arguments is to put words in other pepole's mouths and state their supposed opinion for them.

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's a fucking war. Put aside your bleeding hearts which you didn't have for the Iraqi people, but seem to have now for the Iraqi soldiers who are trying to kill our US soldiers.

You certainly could interpret this as indirect support for such actions.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 2, 2004, 1:08 am

it was a war when al'queda slammed 2 jet liners into the world trade center. maybe you should stop your fucking pussy belly aching about that disaster and put it behind you. after all, it was just a war. better yet, why don't you tell some family members of the victims to quit their crying about it too.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 2, 2004, 1:24 am

Krimson Klaw wrote:Americans are no different than any other country that has committed these crimes. We just fall harder when it's found out because we put ourselves on such a high pedestal.

I'd suggest we fell harder from the Canadian soldiers incident in Somalia. Our national identidy is much less violent than the US. When we found out about the racism, aggression, torture, murder of somalis at the hands of our soldiers it was extremely shocking.

Any army will attract some violent individuals, it offers them a violent outlet that our societies will not allow. It is just reality. The actions of these few do tarnish the overall image of the armed forces when they do shit like this. The best we can do is apologize, attempt compensation and punish the offenders, harshly IMO.

The problem for the US is the timing. I'm sure most of you don't see the other side of the Falluja story. Since the start of the US offensive ~600 civilians have been killed. The western media has reported these numbers, but just the numbers. The arab news has been showing piles of bodies, bodies of dead mothers with their dead babies, dead children, etc.

The Iraqi polls (CNN\Gallop I believe) at the end of March already showed a big swing against the US from the general population. Since then we've had the most violent month of the war, Falluja, and these pictures from the US prisons.

After April I hope the US administration realizes it needs to try something different, not just "stay the course".

miir · Post by **miir** » May 2, 2004, 11:58 am

The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this

Wow, just wow.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 2, 2004, 12:10 pm

The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.

You really should sign up, go defend your glorious leader and shoot some towelheads!

Wonko Wenusberg · Post by **Wonko Wenusberg** » May 2, 2004, 1:28 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 2, 2004, 2:34 pm

Kelshara wrote:
The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.
You really should sign up, go defend your glorious leader and shoot some towelheads!

You're so simple minded, it's actually kind of cute.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 2, 2004, 3:32 pm

Actually, I was just thinking that about you. Except instead of cute I found the word scary more applicable.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 2, 2004, 3:56 pm

Forthe wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:Americans are no different than any other country that has committed these crimes. We just fall harder when it's found out because we put ourselves on such a high pedestal.
I'd suggest we fell harder from the Canadian soldiers incident in Somalia. Our national identidy is much less violent than the US. When we found out about the racism, aggression, torture, murder of somalis at the hands of our soldiers it was extremely shocking.

Were the soldiers from Quebec? You still may have an out! That would be the same as if american soldiers from the southern states did something immoral. It doesn't count.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » May 2, 2004, 5:35 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's a fucking war. Put aside your bleeding hearts which you didn't have for the Iraqi people, but seem to have now for the Iraqi soldiers who are trying to kill our US soldiers.

Wow, you guys are so funny.

So I guess the situation were reversed and it was US soldiers being tortured you'd be cool with that?

Do you actually think about anything you say on these forums aside from, "US good, everyone else bad"? Politics isn't sports, you know.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 2, 2004, 6:07 pm

Etasi wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's a fucking war. Put aside your bleeding hearts which you didn't have for the Iraqi people, but seem to have now for the Iraqi soldiers who are trying to kill our US soldiers.

Wow, you guys are so funny.
So I guess the situation were reversed and it was US soldiers being tortured you'd be cool with that?

Do you actually think about anything you say on these forums aside from, "US good, everyone else bad"? Politics isn't sports, you know.

Actually, Yes I would. It's a war. I don't expect an enemy to be fair. They are trying to kill us and we are them. Guess, you guessed wrong. Try again.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 2, 2004, 6:37 pm

Let's just withdraw from the Geneva Accord all together, okay? Then we can not only torture these PoW's, but then we can set their bodies on fire and hang their corpses from a bridge. Sounds like fun.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 2, 2004, 7:35 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.
You really should sign up, go defend your glorious leader and shoot some towelheads!
You're so simple minded, it's actually kind of cute.

Well I was going to say sign up and get a bullet in the head but figured that would be impolite.. would be a good deed for humanity though.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » May 2, 2004, 7:49 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Actually, Yes I would. It's a war. I don't expect an enemy to be fair. They are trying to kill us and we are them. Guess, you guessed wrong. Try again.

Well at least you're being consistent. Too bad "it's a war, deal with it!" still isn't a valid argument for why the US shouldn't care about Iraqi soldiers being tortured. As long as the US is still party to the Geneva Convention, the government has to care about those things. Sorry!

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » May 4, 2004, 11:53 am

Prisoners are treated without the freedoms of civilians because they are prisoners. I get that.

What stupid moron needs "instruction" to know that forcing someone into sexual acts such as sex or sodomy, making "human pyramids" out of hooded naked prisoners for kicks, beating people, getting a dog to attack them and writing insults on their skin is wrong? I mean do you really need to be instructed in the Geneva Accord to KNOW that? No, you don't and these people are trying to cover their actions with lame excuses. They deserve trials and sentences as harsh as if they did these actions to people in their own country.

I call bullshit on you folks posting support for this because of things done in history by ANY country or people. We are supposed to learn from history and rise above it, not use it as an excuse to treat an entire group the same or worse again. If we did want to start pointing fingers and taking revenge for the "history" of a country, we'd have to blow up the US outright as it’s history is littered with some of the worst crimes imaginable.

Punish the people who committed the crimes, not the population who read about it.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 4, 2004, 5:01 pm

Lynxe wrote: Punish the people who committed the crimes, not the population who read about it.

i couldn't agree more. somehow i think people are getting the idea that because a few fucktards did something insanely stupid that americans are hypocrites in the matter. while we are not perfect for some reason our mistakes get analyzed like we suck worse than anyone out there doing the same things on a higher level. i've been through interrigator school and the military couldn't emphasize any more the geneva conventions. it is individauls not an organization responsible.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 4, 2004, 5:13 pm

2+2=5

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 4, 2004, 5:42 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... _deaths_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military has investigated the deaths of 25 prisoners held by American forces in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites) and determined that two prisoners were murdered by Americans, one an Army soldier and the other a CIA (news - web sites) contractor, Army officials said on Tuesday.

An Army official said that a soldier was convicted in the U.S. military justice system of killing a prisoner by hitting him with a rock, and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a private contractor who worked for the CIA was found to have committed the other homicide against a prisoner.

Word of these investigations came as the Pentagon (news - web sites) continued to investigate the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. forces at the Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Ok so lets see a soldier murders a prisoner...And his punishment is dismissal from the army...Hrmmm...I fail to see how this is adequate punishment for the crime...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 4, 2004, 5:54 pm

The Brig. General who oversaw all the prisons in Iraq said today on CNN's American Morning that she did not have control of the prison where this was occuring. She said it was Military Intelligence Services who contolled the prision - as it was the only one where interrogations were occuring.

Mid, it doesnt matter whether you think the first amendment exists and whether or not you think the pictures should be on TV. They ARE on TV. the images are on over 1 billion TVs worldwide.

the whole point of this fucking war is to increase the the public image of the United States and the West to the people of the Middle East.

Translation: we are trying to convince Arabs that the US is cool, and bombing it is bad.

that is the whole point. I know some of you guys don't understand that because you think Saddam bought yellowcake Uranium from Niger and was only weeks away from fissile material to hand a suitcase bomb to bin Laden that was going to go off at the Super Bowl.

But back here on planet earth, the United States government was trying to politically engineer the Middle East to be pro-Western.

for those of you not quite savvy to exactly what public relations is about, a good way NOT to market yourself is to take pictures of yourself sexually humiliating members of a religiously conservative culture. i know this is all very advanced and difficult to understand.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » May 4, 2004, 6:37 pm

nobody wrote: i couldn't agree more. somehow i think people are getting the idea that because a few fucktards did something insanely stupid that americans are hypocrites in the matter. while we are not perfect for some reason our mistakes get analyzed like we suck worse than anyone out there doing the same things on a higher level. i've been through interrigator school and the military couldn't emphasize any more the geneva conventions. it is individauls not an organization responsible.

I agree that it's impossible for the government and military to watch everyone who works for them all the time, but how this is dealt with is going to say a lot about US credibility.

Remember, this is the country who announced that any government who allows terrorists to live among them without turning them over will be considered no better than the terrorists themselves. They may have to make an example of these guys, and disciplin them harshly if they don't want to be painted with the same brush.

No, I don't have time to proofread that

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » May 4, 2004, 6:38 pm

DOUBLE-POSTED! *poses*

Krurk · Post by **Krurk** » May 5, 2004, 2:38 am

After seeing those pics, I am starting to question the policy of keeping gays out of the military. That chick seemed to enjoy the orgy pile a little too much.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 5, 2004, 2:09 pm

They need to hand over those soldier involved to the International War Crimes Tribunal, or let the iraqi government prosecute them under Iraqi law. The latter will not happen as it is against policy for 2 centuries now, but the former should, they are definitely war criminals and need to be prosecuted.

As a former soldier I personally believe they should be executed even though the law does not allow for it. They placed those prisoners in situations that were the most demeaning to their culture that they possibly could and laughed about, the damage those individuals have done to the Army and to the United States is incalculable. American soldiers have the responsibility to not act as if they were "back on the block".

Fucking reservists, fucking civilians in uniform, they make me sick.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 5, 2004, 2:15 pm

"Fucking reservists, fucking civilians in uniform, they make me sick"

Fuck you

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 2:19 pm

i agree with most of what you say Kylere, i also thought a good way for the US to handle this would be to let Iraq try them, in that it would help us on a PR front dramatically. Doesnt look like anything other than a military court is going to hear their case though.

If you have a problem with reservists being put in this situation, direct those complaints to Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and the other executives responsible for this plan.

i think a legitimate concern also as to how 'civilian contractors' who may be affiliated with this will be treated. Congress passed a law in 2000 placing contractors working with the military abroad under US jurisdiction, but whether or not they will be prosecuted i think is a different matter. I am personally suspicious that some of these contractors may be specificially not under the employ of the government so that they can operate with less restriction - specifically in this case regarding using torture to interrogate captives. i don't have any evidence to back that up, just a personal paranoid theory

miir · Post by **miir** » May 5, 2004, 2:26 pm

As a former soldier I personally believe they should be executed even though the law does not allow for it.

Or you could demote them to Private and discharge them from the army.... Oh silly me, that's what they do to soldiers who empty their clip into prisoners who try to throw a rock at them.

Anyone happen to see that video of the yahoos in the helicopter who blew the living shit out of a couple of Iraqis on the ground? I coulda swore I heard the pilot shouting YEEHAW! Bring it on, motherfuckers!

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 5, 2004, 2:29 pm

I was just about to post about the slap on the wrist the one guy got for murder. Mental note: if I want to kill someone, enlist first.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 5, 2004, 2:52 pm

Yeah the video clip has made it's way around the world.. pretty sick if you ask me.

They need to hand over those soldier involved to the International War Crimes Tribunal, or let the iraqi government prosecute them under Iraqi law. The latter will not happen as it is against policy for 2 centuries now, but the former should, they are definitely war criminals and need to be prosecuted.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but it has one problem though: If I am not mistaken, didn't Bush declare that no American soldier would be tried by the International War Crimes Tribunal ever? I seem to recall him saying something about that, claiming that the only way to get a fair trial for Americans would be to hold it in the US or something.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 5, 2004, 3:04 pm

I have to pay good money to get electrodes attached to my genit... I mean hangin's too GOOD for 'em!

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » May 6, 2004, 1:18 am

Kelshara wrote:Yeah the video clip has made it's way around the world.. pretty sick if you ask me.

They need to hand over those soldier involved to the International War Crimes Tribunal, or let the iraqi government prosecute them under Iraqi law. The latter will not happen as it is against policy for 2 centuries now, but the former should, they are definitely war criminals and need to be prosecuted.
I wholeheartedly agree with this, but it has one problem though: If I am not mistaken, didn't Bush declare that no American soldier would be tried by the International War Crimes Tribunal ever? I seem to recall him saying something about that, claiming that the only way to get a fair trial for Americans would be to hold it in the US or something.

Actually, it's no American whatsoever. We basically do not recognize the court at valid.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 6, 2004, 10:16 am

Ah ok thanks.. which is kind of ironic since the Bush administration wants war criminals from other countries tried there..

Bojangels · Post by **Bojangels** » May 7, 2004, 5:31 am

I'm all for letting the military try their own soldiers.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 7, 2004, 7:20 pm

Those soldiers are war criminals...and should be treated as such.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » May 8, 2004, 12:01 am

I find it curious that when the Iraqis show our soldiers on film it's a war crime...but Rumsfeld consistently referred to these acts as "Abuses"...I don't think anyone (with the possible exception of Midnyte) doubts that these are clearly war crimes...

And of course the soldiers are going with the standard just following orders defense...which was "so effective" at Nuremberg...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 8, 2004, 1:08 am

on drudge now:

"Unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and 'acting inappropriately with a dead body.' Also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing guards raping young boys... Developing..."

Man good job on that liberation guys.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 8, 2004, 2:53 am

You know I almost detect giddiness from some of you.

Have you become so twisted that you now take joy in the fact that something horrible has happened just so you can feed your hatred?

Wake up,

As for me, I am shocked beyond words. Rape of children? .. I'm speechless

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 8, 2004, 3:09 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:You know I almost detect giddiness from some of you.

Have you become so twisted that you now take joy in the fact that something horrible has happened just so you can feed your hatred?

Wake up,

As for me, I am shocked beyond words. Rape of children? .. I'm speechless

I was thinking the same thing.

Anyone notice Voro thinks 2+2=5 lololol he is soooo dumb!!1!!!1

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 8, 2004, 11:41 am

So I read through what Rumsfeld said yesterday and I am shocked. It sounded to me like he was more sorry that the pictures got out than that it actually happened in the first place! Did I just misread some of it (I know it happens at times due to language differences) or did anybody else read through it and see it as well?

nobody · Post by **nobody** » May 8, 2004, 2:20 pm

Kylere wrote: Fucking reservists, fucking civilians in uniform, they make me sick.

go fuck yourself. over 80% of the people in my 2 shop are reservists and produce more and better intel than ANY of the regular army here. there are some who fit your description but all in all there are damn fine people in the gaurd and reserves.

anyway, those soldiers put american lives at risk by their actions. if they did that in the states they'd go to jail and should in this situation as well. if it's wrong to do it to americans it's just as wrong to do it in a war zone.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 10, 2004, 10:05 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:You know I almost detect giddiness from some of you.

Have you become so twisted that you now take joy in the fact that something horrible has happened just so you can feed your hatred?

Wake up,

As for me, I am shocked beyond words. Rape of children? .. I'm speechless

What's sad that it takes shit like this has to happen before some of you realise why people around the world hate Americans?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 10, 2004, 11:27 am

I read an interview in a Norwegian paper today with people from Lynndie England's hometown today, and was shocked at some of the things that were said. Here is the text for those of you who might understand it, and I'll translate it as well.

http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=226941

Oppe i bakken nord for veikrysset som er midtpunktet i byen, har Pat Streett (64) loppemarked utenfor verandaen. Hagen er fylt med gamle leker og krimskrams.

Over henne henger syv amerikanske flagg. Pat kaller seg «en amerikansk patriot» og mener mediedekningen av sjokkbildene er motbydelig.

Ikke bildene i seg selv.

- Nei, jeg ville gjort akkurat det samme som Lynndie og de andre. Det var araberne som angrep oss først her i USA. Nå får de tilbake med samme mynt. Og dere i mediene bare ødelegger alt, freser Pat og vifter med pekefingeren truende nær oss.

- Så du synes tortur og overgrep er greit?

- Lynndie forsvarer landet sitt. Hun kjempet for USA. Det er øye for øye, sier Pat Streett.

- Ja, og tann for tann, fortsetter sønnen Mark Schriver, i bar overkropp og med ølboksen i neven.

Up on the hill north of the intersection that is the center of the town you can find Pat Street (64) and her yard sale. Her garden is filled with old toys and other items.

Above her hangs seven American flags. Pat calls herself "an American patriot", and thinks the media coverage of the torture pictures is disgusting.

Not the pictures themself.

- "No I would have done the same thing Lynndie and the others did. The Arabs attacked us first here in the USA. Now they are repaid with the same coin. And you guys in the media only ruin everything", an angry Pat says and shakes her finger threateningly at us.

- "So you think torture and abuses are ok?"

- "Lynndie defended her country. She fought for the USA. It's an eye for an eye", says Pat Streett.

- "Yes, and tooth for a tooth", says her son Mark Schriver, bare chested with a beercan in his hand.

-------------------------

I realize that these are not the opinions of Americans in general, but they do exist. Which is damn scary imho, and works as an example of why the world is not exactly in love with the US atm. Also read an interview with a Middle East expert (who supported the war 100% and claim that getting rid of Hussein was well worth it) who is worried that these pictures might have blown away any chance of winning over the population in Iraq. I hope he is incorrect, but have read a lot of what he has written up through the years and he knows his stuff.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » May 10, 2004, 11:48 am

If you take a population of over 245 million people, you can find any opinion you want.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » May 10, 2004, 11:51 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:If you take a population of over 245 million people, you can find any opinion you want.

But Adex its ok for them to cheer the burning of Americans in the street. while I think the Torture of the Iraq soldiers is sad and should be punished. Im having a hard time finding sympathy for them.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 10, 2004, 11:55 am

Kelshara, that response is far from typical, I am trying not to read anymore about it since I think we should execute them and be done with it, but i am willing to bet that trashy sick little whore is from some backwoods place like West Virginia, Western Pennsylvania etc. Every country has people like that, in Germany they were generally in the south, like they are in the US, I have met Brits, Dutch, Danes, French, Italian etc people who are the same way, dumb as fuck and proud of it. Europe has a fine history of being the dumb fuck leader nationstates to show that history repeats itself.

Of course we are still better than the major colonizing powers. No genocide lately, even though I bet within 25 years we see the US seriously consider it. I really wish the stupid ass Brits would have not done such a pathetic job of drawing maplines and left the world so fucked. But they did, and we ( not just the US) but we citizens of the world are still dealing with the side effects of their mistakes. When it all comes down to it, the nation with the most might at any one time fucks up the worst. Of course they accomplish the most also, so their are pluses and minuses.

Let me reinterate i would pull the trigger to put these sick fucks down just like I would any rabid animal of any country, race, religion.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 10, 2004, 12:28 pm

But Adex its ok for them to cheer the burning of Americans in the street. while I think the Torture of the Iraq soldiers is sad and should be punished. Im having a hard time finding sympathy for them.

The Americans or the Iraqis?