Apartment Rules

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 5, 2004, 5:21 pm

Something I heard about that I'm having a hard time believing is legally allowable. Was wondering if anyone here knew better as to whether it is or is not..

A friend lives in an apartment complex. About a year and a half ago the management for this apartment complex changed. When the new management came in, they decided to ban motorcycles from being in the complex AT ALL. No visiting motorcycles, no tenants motorcycles, none. They're not allowed through the gate, supposedly according to the lease agreements this management company has for these apartments.

My main question is whether it's legal to discriminate against a particular type of normal street legal vehicle.. We're not talking dirt bikes, racing bikes, etc. We're talking ANY kind of two wheeled motor vehicle.

Discuss.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » May 5, 2004, 5:25 pm

I see no reason why it wouldn't be legal. Odd and silly, sure, but prolly legal just the same. They own the property and perhaps they are citing noise from things like choppers and it is easier to ban them all.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 5, 2004, 5:25 pm

If it's in your lease, it's legal. If it's not in the lease, then they can't do shit.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » May 5, 2004, 5:26 pm

An apartment complex parking lot is considered private property and more than likely they can choose to disallow particular types of vehicles in the same way that many property owners bar skateboarding etc.

It seems an odd thing to do though...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 5, 2004, 6:06 pm

Be a rebel and get one of these Siji!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 5, 2004, 6:13 pm

it's not legal, especially for people who already lived there before the new management came in.

it's against the landlord and tenant act to alter a lease agreement for any reasons other than financial or health reasons (rent/fees going up, smoking being banned) even when the lease has expired. any changes in lease agreements have to be grandfathered. for instance, you could live in a no pets building where someone there owns a big dog or a cat, because the pet was there before it was a no pets building. a landlord or holding company can't just say "ok you have to get rid of your dog/motorcycle or move"

it is private property inasmuch as they own the property and the government does not, but under tenants most of the rights and priviledges property owners do.

you can't ban motorcycles because motorcycles aren't illegal and don't pose a threat to anyone really but the person riding on it. you could ban noisy motorcycles above a certain Db level.

most states and provinces have a tenant's rights bureau your friend can lodge a complaint with if he feels a rule is unfair. especially a new rule.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 5, 2004, 6:47 pm

Are you sure about that Kyo? I'm pretty sure that a management company can do pretty much whatever they want, as long as they announce in advance what the new complex rules are going to be and don't penalize people breaking leases because Rover isn't allowed to live there anymore.

I know for a fact that if they change the wording of the lease agreement, and you sign it, you're bound to comply just like any other contract.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 5, 2004, 8:48 pm

I'm all for banning loud motorcycles. Any place! If a car had some of the loud exhaust I hear coming from motorcycles on a daily basis they'd more than likely get cited for violating some sort of noise ordinance.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 5, 2004, 9:09 pm

No ricers in your area I take it? Or rednecks?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 6, 2004, 1:31 am

So, assuming it's legal for an apartment complex to make this rule.. I'm guessing it's also ok for them to ban Ford vehicles, or green vehicles.. or vehicles older than 1990..

Somehow, that sounds like some kind of discrimination to me. e.g. What if someone could only afford a moped or cheap motorcycle as their transportation? The apartment complex has a right to dictate what they drive? Granted, you don't have to move in there and can move elsewhere, but it still seems illegal.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 6, 2004, 2:13 am

Looks like the fuzz is riding the only legal two wheelers now!

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 6, 2004, 10:37 am

The law definitely varies state to state but Kyoukan was pretty much right. If teh new rules are not in the lease that was signed then they can't do much. If the motorcycle is being noisy though then they could evict based on noise complaints. Contract law states something to the effect that people can not change the contract without the approval of both parties. The minute one party tries to then the contract becomes null and void and the person is not liable for living up to it.

It isn't illegal to ban motorcycles or anything else though. I lived in an apartment that banned kegs. It didn't mean I was being discriminated against for being an alcoholic. The smae place also banned any maintenace repairs on vehicles. I wasn't allowed to change my own oil. This wasn't discrimination because I was too poor to get it professionally done. The managers can pretty much do anything they want and if you sign the lease then you are liable to abide by the rules.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 6, 2004, 1:30 pm

Siji wrote:So, assuming it's legal for an apartment complex to make this rule.. I'm guessing it's also ok for them to ban Ford vehicles, or green vehicles.. or vehicles older than 1990..

Somehow, that sounds like some kind of discrimination to me. e.g. What if someone could only afford a moped or cheap motorcycle as their transportation? The apartment complex has a right to dictate what they drive? Granted, you don't have to move in there and can move elsewhere, but it still seems illegal.

There is a big difference between "No morotcycles allowed," and "No niggers allowed."

Karae · Post by **Karae** » May 6, 2004, 4:15 pm

The only way they could prevent the tenants from bringing a motorcycle in is if there was a clause in their lease preventing that. They can't just come in and change the lease to disallow your use of a motorcycle. They can't "change management" and suddenly change the rules for people already living there. The contract is unchangeable, at least until it runs out. *Maybe* they could change it when the lease expires. That type of law varies state to state but I think for the most part, aside from rent rates, they can't change major clauses in a lease agreement without the tenant's consent.

However, there's nothing to prevent them from allowing guests to bring motorcycles in. It's private property - if they don't want you there you can't be there. And certainly, the same principle applies to new tenants. They can very easily state in the lease that you cannot drive a motorcycle there. But it has to be stated upfront.

Let me put this as plainly as I can since you seem to be having trouble with it. Just because something strikes you as unfair doesn't mean it's illegal. Is it unfair that they won't let your drive your obnoxiously loud motorcycle up to your friends apartment at 2 AM? I guess, but it's perfectly within their rights to tell you that you can't. You never signed a lease. You have no right to enter the apartment complex. You're a guest, act like it.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 6, 2004, 5:57 pm

It's a bit more complicated that that Karae. Most leases don't spell out all the rules and regulations; they usually have a section that basically says you agree to comply with all complex rules, regs, ect. So they're not trying to change the lease on you, they're altering the complex rules.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » May 6, 2004, 7:18 pm

You can't change rules like that though. These types of laws have come about after thousands of similar situations that have gone to litigation or mediation.

I'd be willing to bet a huge majority of states have grandfather clauses for rule changes like this. Tenants have an enormous amount of rights that other people normally don't enjoy while they are on someone else's property. Rules can't be changed even in new lease agreements in most cases because of tenant's rights legislation. A company or landlord can't just come to your door and say "your lease is up, get rid of your motorcycle and your dog or we'll evict you."

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » May 7, 2004, 2:32 am

A company or landlord can't just come to your door and say "your lease is up, get rid of your motorcycle and your dog or we'll evict you."

of course your friend may be able to keep using the motorcycle until his current lease is up.. However there is no law i am aware of that requires the landlord to renew that lease. once the lease is up they can simply not renew it and evict him.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » May 7, 2004, 11:48 am

The short answer? Yes, an owner can discriminate against a type of vehicle. Such discrimination must be already contained within the lease however, and may not be amended, unless both parties agree.

The long answer? Kyo, Karae, Deward, Masteen, et. al. are basically correct. A few additional things to add:

1. You said the Property Management Company changed. If the property was actually sold outright to a different owner, there would be some additional considerations. Management companies can only enforce the existing rules in the lease...they have no power to change the lease itself.

2. A lease is a contract between a tenant and the owner of the property. In Florida, the standard residential lease, if not otherwise specified, lasts 2 years and is not automatically renewable. In order for a resident to stay longer, they would need to sign another lease. That lease can be for the same property and have totally different stipulations, including "no motorcycles allowed". It is not against the law to specify that motorcycles, green cars, pet anacondas or what not, are prohibited in a lease. If the tenant signs, it is binding. Leases *can* be altered during the time of the lease, but such alterations must be agreed upon by both the tenant and landlord.

3. An exception to the above in the State of Florida - owners may not, as a condition in a lease, prohibit the use of waterbeds (!)

4. If the lease contains a section that prohibits "disturbing" behavior (in the disturb your neighbor sense), it is highly likely that driving a 200 db cycle on the property would be considered a violation. However, the same argument could be made for 200 db cars or weed whackers as well.

5. Deward is incorrect in his assesment of what happens should a party try to alter a contract. The contract itself is initally still valid, it does not automatically become null and void. Either the tenant or owner would be in breach, in which case there are remedies for both parties involved.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » May 7, 2004, 1:03 pm

Siji wrote:As the saying goes, loud pipes save lives. The first thing I do everytime I've gotten a new motorcycle is to change the pipes. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been able to avoid some car coming into my lane by revving the bike up the moment I notice them moving over. They hear me and get freaked out and get the fuck back in their lane. Especially the old q-tips that live here in Florida.

Does your friend even have a motorcycle or are you upset that your friend's apartment complex doesn't want you riding your noise-generator to visit him?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2004, 1:50 pm

Ashur wrote:
Siji wrote:As the saying goes, loud pipes save lives. The first thing I do everytime I've gotten a new motorcycle is to change the pipes. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been able to avoid some car coming into my lane by revving the bike up the moment I notice them moving over. They hear me and get freaked out and get the fuck back in their lane. Especially the old q-tips that live here in Florida.
Does your friend even have a motorcycle or are you upset that your friend's apartment complex doesn't want you riding your noise-generator to visit him?

If you're driving around a loud motorcycle at night in an apratment complex I'd want that piece of shit gone as well if I was a resident there. I could give a shit about rights, noise polution sucks. I'd think if the apt complex was right alongside a busy road or if it was back off the road would make a difference as well. There's not much you can do about road noise but I'd certainly be one of the complainers if your fucked up screaming hog woke me up at night.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 7, 2004, 2:56 pm

Wouldn't it just be ironic if the management office was robbed and the responding officers were motorcycle officers that refused to come onto the property due to their retarded banning of bikes?

I am sure that at some point, this will be challenged as discriminatory. They are just trying to rid themselves of those ruffian biker tpes!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 7, 2004, 4:36 pm

Ashur wrote:Does your friend even have a motorcycle or are you upset that your friend's apartment complex doesn't want you riding your noise-generator to visit him?

Neither. I was curious about it, as I think I said above, and was looking for opinions/discussion. I've never had a problem as I, and most other motorcycle riders, am courteous when in neighborhoods or apartment complexes at night. I don't rev my engine, I don't come 'screaming through', I almost idle my way around. Nothing like the idiots that drive their pretty new cars with billion decible booming coming from their car that you can hear/feel two blocks away. But I guess that's ok since it's 4 wheels.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » May 7, 2004, 4:50 pm

Dude, I was just yanking your chain.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » May 7, 2004, 4:51 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Wouldn't it just be ironic if the management office was robbed and the responding officers were motorcycle officers that refused to come onto the property due to their retarded banning of bikes?!

Like the cops would care?

Mplor · Post by **Mplor** » May 8, 2004, 9:15 pm

Siji wrote:
Ashur wrote:Does your friend even have a motorcycle or are you upset that your friend's apartment complex doesn't want you riding your noise-generator to visit him?
Neither. I was curious about it, as I think I said above, and was looking for opinions/discussion. I've never had a problem as I, and most other motorcycle riders, am courteous when in neighborhoods or apartment complexes at night. I don't rev my engine, I don't come 'screaming through', I almost idle my way around. Nothing like the idiots that drive their pretty new cars with billion decible booming coming from their car that you can hear/feel two blocks away. But I guess that's ok since it's 4 wheels.

No, neither is OK.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 8, 2004, 9:15 pm

Ashur wrote:Dude, I was just yanking your chain.

Yes, but you forgot the lube and were giving me a burning sensation.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » May 10, 2004, 7:05 pm

Toshira wrote:3. An exception to the above in the State of Florida - owners may not, as a condition in a lease, prohibit the use of waterbeds (!)

Weird, I was told waterbeds were banned due to the amount of weight on a small section of floor was a no-no. As in it could warp the floor or something.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 10, 2004, 8:06 pm

Pilsburry wrote:
Toshira wrote:3. An exception to the above in the State of Florida - owners may not, as a condition in a lease, prohibit the use of waterbeds (!)
Weird, I was told waterbeds were banned due to the amount of weight on a small section of floor was a no-no. As in it could warp the floor or something.

Hadn't heard about that one. But did hear about it being a hazzard if it started to leak. Could really ruin the day for whoever is living under you.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » May 10, 2004, 8:15 pm

Well, never underestimate the power of the Aquabed lobbying coalition.

That was a provision added just this year by the senate.