Nightline

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 30, 2004, 3:28 pm

So is reading the names of the dead, just like they did on the 1 year anniversary of 9/11, a political statement or paying respect? Personally I think they deserve a hell of a lot more then Ted reading their names off, but at least it's something.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 30, 2004, 3:30 pm

hope your local ABC Afiliate is not owned by Sinclair Broadcasting.

they are prohibiting their stations from running the episode.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/3 ... index.html

oh yeah 4 of the top executives are substantial Bush supporters.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 30, 2004, 3:38 pm

Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) wrote:opprobrium

I love McCain.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 30, 2004, 3:43 pm

yeah that was a great word

its a shame Republicans are (at least a majority of them in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carloina, and nationwide contributor-wise are...) so stupid they selected Bush over McCain. we'd be in such a better place as a country.

of course the problem was the GOP was never going to let him be the nominee, because he is a threat to portions of their agenda. The increased intermingling of fundamentalist christian believes into government policy for starters.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » April 30, 2004, 4:02 pm

MCain is too liberal for most repubs.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 30, 2004, 4:03 pm

What? McCain is one of the only true conservatives left in the GOP. Do you just fucking parrot whatever anyone tells you?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 30, 2004, 4:24 pm

That fiscally conservative war hawk sure is liberal.... ?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 30, 2004, 4:27 pm

I guess if you are Adex, a liberal is someone who doesn't openly proclaim that God wants them to be president and doesn't waste taxpayers money on "faith based" (christian) pork barrel government horse shit.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » May 1, 2004, 8:42 am

Adex_Xeda wrote:MCain is too liberal for most repubs.

what the fuck?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 4, 2004, 12:17 pm

Xzion wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:MCain is too liberal for most repubs.
what the fuck?

That hard to understand?... If people mention a "KERRY / MCCAIN" ticket, isn't it obvious?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 4, 2004, 12:23 pm

Just a simple viewpoint, of why or why not to air something like this now...

Cause and Effect.

9/11 was one day, and it's over. Reading the names of people who died in 9/11 has a PRO-WAR effect, as people want to avenge the loss.

We are at war in Iraq. Reading the current list of dead, serves only an ANTI-WAR effect, as the obvious feeling is, we can stop this number from growing by leaving....

That's why it shouldn't be done.... Not that it shouldn't be aired, but Nightline shouldn't have even done it... it's Anti-War, and par for the course for the media that has not been serving the best interests of this country since the war started.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » May 4, 2004, 12:36 pm

The best interests of the country was to never enter Iraq in the first place. I agree Nightline shouldn't have aired the names though, it should have been given its own hour in primetime instead of at 11:30 at night.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 4, 2004, 12:39 pm

Anti-War, and par for the course for the media that has not been serving the best interests of this country since the war started

Since when is the media required to only serve the best interests of the 'homeland'?
Are you in favor of censorship and government controlled media?
Would that be better system than what is currently in place in your 'homeland'?

Also, I think calling the American invasion and occupation of Iraq a 'war', is a bit misleading.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 4, 2004, 12:46 pm

Fash wrote:That's why it shouldn't be done.... Not that it shouldn't be aired, but Nightline shouldn't have even done it... it's Anti-War, and par for the course for the media that has not been serving the best interests of this country since the war started.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 4, 2004, 1:31 pm

every veteran i heard interviewed about the Nightline piece thought it was a tribute and that it was a good thing to do.

that includes verterans from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I, and II.

but if you don't want to listen to them to tell you what is patriotic or "American" and instead listen to the talking points that come out of Karl Rove's office daily and are then circulated to the offices of various conservative radio and television commentators to beat the daily drums, then go ahead.

by the way, did anybody actually watch this?

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 4, 2004, 5:07 pm

i watched the daily show make fun of it, does that count?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 4, 2004, 8:22 pm

They need to put a ticket at the bottom of every major network affiliate constantly streaming the names of the deceased over and over again.

Also, whenever someone new dies, they need to have the name up in caps and bold for a week surrounded by 3

on each side.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 4, 2004, 9:13 pm

They should name off all the Iraqi civilians that have been killed since the "war" began. Of course, no one would sit through hours and hours and hours of that...

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 5, 2004, 12:56 am

I'd like to see Aaron Brown reduced to a quivering pile of jelly after trying to say all those Iraqi names.

Krurk · Post by **Krurk** » May 5, 2004, 2:36 am

If you think Koppel reading off 721 names is bad, just imagine if it was Bush. I could see that taking three hours at least.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » May 5, 2004, 9:41 am

Krurk wrote:If you think Koppel reading off 721 names is bad, just imagine if it was Bush. I could see that taking three hours at least.

And then there would only be 720 more to go.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 5, 2004, 10:33 am

I just wish the stupid motherfuckers would stop reading the names of people that died of leukemia or in a car wreck or of kidney failure etc.

If you eliminate the non combat deaths the numbers cut in half, and if you compare them to deaths suffered by the units over the same time period while at peace, they are actually suffering LESS casualties than they would be back on the block while drinking and having spouses kill them, and having dumb drunk ass rednecks torture them, or being popped on street corners. It is a FACT that the units there are suffering LESS than they would be back in the states.

Now if you want something to complain about, complain that North America is more dangerous to Soldiers than the Middle East.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 10:59 am

Kylere wrote:
Now if you want something to complain about, complain that North America is more dangerous to Soldiers than the Middle East.

actually its not. i think it was Sean Hannity who said that more people died per day in California than American Soldiers in Iraq. SO THEREFORE, NORTH AMERICA IS MORE DANGEROUS.

of course to the average consumer of Hannity's show, that makes sense.

of course back here on planet earth there are 36 MILLION people in the State of California, and there are 125,000 US Soldiers in Iraq.

if you make the rate a per capita rate and not an absolute rate (the only way to make a valid comparison in this case), it is much more dangerous to be a US soldier in Iraq.

Also the people on the streets in California aren't holed up in compounds with M-1 tanks guarding them wearing flak jackets either....

i know i don't live in Flint, so maybe that is what i'm missing here, but i can walk through downtown Atlanta to get a burger without air cover, body armor, and without thinking the next car to drive by is a bomb.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 5, 2004, 11:24 am

Hey Voronwe, blow me, where I live is irrelevent to the facts. All people in San Francisco are not gay, all people in Flint are not hoods, all people in Germany are not Nazi's, all Muslims are not killer nutcases. Your attacking where I live shows that you have nothing valid to stand on factually, it just shows that your bigotry is based on ignorance that rivals those who think Michael Moore is a "documentary" maker.

Soldiers at home, in their peacetime duty assignment;

Get Drunk and Drive
Shoot each other
Shoot their spouses or spouses shoot them
Die of natural causes
Die of self inflicted wounds
Die from some dumbfuck in a SUV ramming into the piece of shit car that is the best they can afford because they put their life on the line for their country
Die from thousands of godforsaken reasons

During Gulf1 the US army had a statistically significant reduction in deaths, and it is also true now. It is more dangerous to have troops in a peacetime environment than it is to have them facing the current situation in Iraq. More troops die daily OUTSIDE of Iraq in the Army, than INSIDE Iraq.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 11:27 am

i'd be curious to see the source for that data, because i find it hard to believe.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 5, 2004, 11:53 am

If you eliminate the non combat deaths the numbers cut in half,

I see math is not your strong point.

Of the 756 US deaths in Iraq, 550 have occured as a direct result of hostile action... read: Combat Deaths

27.5% in nowhere near half...

It is a FACT that the units there are suffering LESS than they would be back in the states.

Where in the US is there a death rate per capita of roughly 650 per 100k?
If they are suffering less, why is the suicide rate amongst personel deployed in Iraq so astronomical?

Your fucking head must be filled with rocks if you think the military personel deployed in Iraq are more comfortable, or 'suffering less' than if they were in the US

miir · Post by **miir** » May 5, 2004, 11:58 am

During Gulf1 the US army had a statistically significant reduction in deaths, and it is also true now. It is more dangerous to have troops in a peacetime environment than it is to have them facing the current situation in Iraq. More troops die daily OUTSIDE of Iraq in the Army, than INSIDE Iraq.

I call shenanigans...

Until you provide a link to back up your 'FACTS', kindly shut the fuck up.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 5, 2004, 12:39 pm

All people in San Francisco are not gay, all people in Flint are not hoods, all people in Germany are not Nazi's, all Muslims are not killer nutcases. Your attacking where I live shows that you have nothing valid to stand on factually, it just shows that your bigotry is based on ignorance that rivals those who think Michael Moore is a "documentary" maker.

My view of the world is now shattered. Thanks a lot!

I'll be in the corner quiverring.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 5, 2004, 1:08 pm

Facts: I was there serving in the Army during the first Gulf expedition and the poor soldiers fates you are bemoaning find you all as sickening as I do. Not everyone is about avoiding personal responsibility.

Comparing the death rate per 100k overall to soldier deaths is inaccurate, soldiers even during peacetime die at a higher level. Soldiers die younger, faster and often more horribly than their civilian counterparts. 99% of soldiers are 18 to 38 years old, they drink too much, play around too much, and suffer a higher death rate as a result.

Miir, then why are they reporting 756, the non-combat deaths are irrelevant, unless you are trying to alter stats in your favor. So they are reporting numbers 27.5% higher than they should be. But I am willing to bet that if you look at each cause of death the number will be much more skewed towards BS rather than true combat deaths. It is being overinflated by those wishing to use it for political means.

I have no doubts that the war is ethically wrong, I have no doubts that it was a mistake. But that does not mean that it was intentional, nor that it was entirely unfounded. People are dying on both sides and you are all using it for politics. Fuck you civilian bags of shit. If you want to change things, serve in the military, vote, run for office, do SOMETHING besides whine on VV.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 1:11 pm

so basically what you are saying is you have no source for this 'statistic'?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 5, 2004, 1:18 pm

I'd just like to point out that Voro didn't really attack where you live, he made a sarcastic remark about how apparently it's a deathtrap to live there as you alluded to.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 5, 2004, 1:30 pm

Yes voro, that's what he's saying.

Instead of backing up his ludicrous claims with any semblance of factual evidence, he's stooping to insults.

Comparing the death rate per 100k overall to soldier deaths is inaccurate

How exactly is it inaccurate?
Perhaps you can indulge us and post the yearly death rate of military personel based in the USA using death per 100k as your base?

Or maybe we should take your casual observation based on your military service as unbiased, 100% accurate empirical evidence?

Miir, then why are they reporting 756, the non-combat deaths are irrelevant, unless you are trying to alter stats in your favor.

I'm not claiming they are irrelevant.
You were the one who said "If you eliminate the non combat deaths the numbers cut in half"... Your government has listed over 550 of the deaths as "a result of hostile action" (their words, not mine). I'm not skewing any figures, I'm merely stating facts supplied by your government. You're the only one here that seems to have a problem understanding that.
My personal belief is that every death of a US serviceman/woman in Iraq is a direct result of your goverment's ill concieved invasion and occupation of Iraq.

In summary, until you can provide any evidence to back up your claim that ratio of death amongst American military personel in the US is higher than in Iraq, your argument/opinion holds no merit.

I'd just like to point out that Voro didn't really attack where you live, he made a sarcastic remark about how apparently it's a deathtrap to live there as you alluded to.

Yeah, the murder rate per captia in Flint MI is one of the highest in North America... not an attack or an insult.. just a fact.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » May 5, 2004, 1:39 pm

miir wrote:Yeah, the murder rate per captia in Flint MI is one of the highest in North America... not an attack or an insult.. just a fact.

I thought it was the suicide rate was one of the highest.

(Yes Kylere, that was a jab at Flint. Go write a poem about how it makes you feel.)

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » May 5, 2004, 2:02 pm

Yeah because we kill dumbfucks

If you want to refute me go look it up, you can google just as well as I can without me having to spoonfeed you with pablum. Perhaps if you possessed the ability to research on your own rather than immediately taking what some newshead says is the truth, you would not be blinded by it so often.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 2:15 pm

in other words you can't back it up, so it is somehow incumbent on me to back up your argument.

the first time you couldnt back up your argument it was because of some inadequacy in my character. Now it is because i am capable of using google, so you can't be bothered.

hilarity

miir · Post by **miir** » May 5, 2004, 2:31 pm

If you want to refute me go look it up, you can google just as well as I can without me having to spoonfeed you with pablum

I did try to look it up and I could find nothing to corroborate your claim.

Try harder....

VeeshanVault

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