Prisoners with wires attached to their genitals

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Prisoners with wires attached to their genitals

Post by miir »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3669331.stm
US general suspended over abuse


A US general has been suspended in Iraq over the alleged abuse of prisoners by US troops in jails she ran.
Brigadier General Janis Karpinski is among seven officers being investigated following claims that soldiers under their command mistreated detainees.

The army confirmed the suspension after US television broadcast images of US soldiers allegedly abusing inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

CBS TV says it has "dozens" of pictures showing a wide range of maltreatment.

Taken by US troops, many of the pictures show American troops watching in apparent approval.


Six of them - military police - are facing court martial.

CBS said an army investigation had concluded that Gen Karpinski's "lack of leadership and clear standards" led to problems in Abu Ghraib and three other prisons for which she was responsible.

The army has made no formal charges against her. She is the subject of an investigation that could result in a written reprimand, AFP news agency reported.


'Appalled'

Brig Gen Mark Kimmitt told CBS the army was "appalled" by the behaviour of its soldiers.

Gen Kimmitt, the deputy head of coalition forces in Iraq, said the suspected abusers "let their fellow soldiers down".

But, he said, the few suspects were "not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few," he urged Americans.

CBS says the pictures it obtained show a wide range of abuses, including:

Prisoners with wires attached to their genitals

A dog attacking a prisoner

Prisoners being forced to simulate having sex with each other

A detainee with an abusive word written on his body.


The prison where the abuses are alleged to have taken place was a notorious torture centre during the Saddam Hussein era.

Bob Baer, a former CIA operative with extensive Iraq experience, told CBS: "If there [was] ever a reason to get rid of Saddam Hussein, it's Abu Ghraib [prison]."

No guidance

The station spoke to one of the six soldiers charged, Sergeant Chip Frederick - a reservist whose full-time job is as a prison officer in the US state of Virginia.

Sgt Frederick said he and his fellow reservists had never been told how to deal with prisoners, or what lines should not be crossed.

"We had no training whatsoever," he said.

"I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulations. And it just wasn't happening," he said.

He said he never saw a copy of the Geneva Conventions - which govern the treatment of prisoners - until after he was charged.

The Army investigation confirmed that reservists at Abu Ghraib had not been trained in Geneva Convention rules.

The military police officers have been charged by the US Army with crimes ranging from assault and maltreatment to indecent acts against prisoners.

The soldiers in question reportedly were assisting interrogators from US intelligence agencies.

Last month, when the six military police officers were charged, an Army spokesman said the alleged crimes involved fewer than 20 prisoners and happened around November and December.

The charges include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty, maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another.


Does one really need to read the Geneva convention to realise that abusing and torturing prisoners is unacceptable?
If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say these morons are a few IQ points below being classified as mentally retarded.




edit : Opted for a snazzier title
Last edited by miir on April 29, 2004, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

I think your guess is probably fairly accurate. That level of stupidity is just tragic.
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Post by miir »

I wonder why none of the American media are reporting this?
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Government pressure and threats most likely. For the laaaaaand of the freeeeeeee, and the hooooooome of theeeee.. braaaaaaaaaave. Play ball!
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Post by Voronwë »

miir wrote:I wonder why none of the American media are reporting this?
you said CBS news broke the story...

if i heard correctly on CNN yesterday, General Kimmitt was asked at his daily briefing about it, and he responded that he thought the photos were going to be aired on 60 Minutes II Wednesday night.

edit: yeah i was right http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/ ... 4063.shtml

here is the story in today's NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/29/politics/29ABUS.html
TREATMENT OF PRISONERS
G.I.'s Are Accused of Abusing Iraqi Captives
By JAMES RISEN

Published: April 29, 2004


but the story isn't being pushed in heavy rotation or the front pages from what i can tell (this is the first i've thought about it).

but yeah, everybody should watch the video form the 60 Minutes II site. it is unbelievable. Pretty sad.
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Post by Xouqoa »

Front page of Yahoo news now, too.
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Post by Lalanae »

I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
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Post by Cartalas »

Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
I love the way people lump all americans into this catagory and then turn around and say we lump all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist catagory.
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Post by miir »

The difference is that these are American soldiers representing their country. Everything they reflects upon their country and the government of their country. People judge them on their actions and behaviour.


Labeling all persons of middle eastern descent as terrorists is simply prejudice and racism. Terrorists are not representative of any specific race, nationality or religious group.



Your comparison is flawed.
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Post by Xouqoa »

miir wrote:Labeling all persons of middle eastern descent as terrorists is simply prejudice and racism. Terrorists are not representative of any specific race, nationality or religious group.
Yep, IRA terrorists in Ireland are just as big of assholes as the Al-Quaeda ones. (Although I don't think they are near as active anymore.)
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

No, both of his examples are stereotypes. No flaw.

Americans are no different than any other country that has committed these crimes. We just fall harder when it's found out because we put ourselves on such a high pedestal.
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Post by Lalanae »

Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
I love the way people lump all americans into this catagory and then turn around and say we lump all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist catagory.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Where can I sign up for 'Lalanae's English Lessons on Tape'? only 19.95$!
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Post by Animalor »

Without a clear chain of command.. Some people just do what they were raised or trained to do. Fuck people up.
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Post by pyrella »

miir wrote:I wonder why none of the American media are reporting this?

The army confirmed the suspension after US television broadcast images of US soldiers allegedly abusing inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad


Did you think the BBC meant Us as in 'we' and not the United States?
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Post by miir »

A search of fox, cbs, reuters, yahoo and cnn turned up nothing when I posted it. I found it rather odd that the BBC had picked up this story before any of the major online media outlets in the US picked it up.

Would you not find that a bit puzzing as well?
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Post by Voronwë »

miir wrote:A search of fox, cbs, reuters, yahoo and cnn turned up nothing when I posted it. I found it rather odd that the BBC had picked up this story before any of the major online media outlets in the US picked it up.

Would you not find that a bit puzzing as well?
CBS had the story and segment done 2 weeks ago. They delayed doing the segment because they wanted some input from the Defense Dept. DoD asked them if they could sit on it a bit, because the news was bad in Iraq then (it's worse now...perhaps they should have let it out then). CBS agreed to do so because they were trying to leverage the DoD to cooperate and yield some information, so this was part of their negotiation. '

Finally, this week, the pictures got leaked out of CBS or the US soldiers themselves, and that is wehre people like the BBC picked it up. CBS told the DoD that they were going to run the segment this Wednesday, and the Pentagon agreed to cooperate with the story so CBS could present a more full featured television package.



Miir i was wondering why this wasnt anywhere on CNN, and i just found out why. i searched for "iraqi prisoners" on cnn.com

and got
this

Soldiers charged with abusing Iraqi prisoners
From Barbara Starr
CNN
Saturday, March 20, 2004 Posted: 4:59 PM EST (2159 GMT)



The military is investigating potential abuse of detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Gharib prison.



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Six U.S. soldiers have been charged with offenses related to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at an Iraqi prison, the U.S. Army said Saturday.


we had the story over a month ago ;)

so what CBS had was simply the pictures, which I agree change the magnitude and impact of the story dramatically.
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Post by Voronwë »

3 months ago =D
More details of Army's abuse probe surface
From Barbara Starr
CNN Washington Bureau
Monday, January 26, 2004 Posted: 6:49 PM EST (2349 GMT)



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military's criminal investigation into potential abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Gharib prison in Iraq now includes reports from soldiers that military police took photographs showing soldiers hitting detainees, CNN has learned.

Earlier, several Pentagon officials who declined to be identified by name confirmed to CNN that investigators were looking into the reports -- all coming from fellow soldiers -- of photographs showing male and female detainees with some of their clothing removed.
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Post by miir »

Ah, that makes sense now.
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Post by Cartalas »

Lalanae wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
I love the way people lump all americans into this catagory and then turn around and say we lump all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist catagory.
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"so many Americans" do not equal "all americans"

"so many" implies a part of the whole
"all" implies the entire whole

Pop quiz tomorrow!
The way you used so many americans Implied a majority or at least thats what I got out of it.
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Post by Voronwë »

miir wrote:Ah, that makes sense now.
i do kind of agree with you that with the pictures coming out, it seems like it is worth discussing again though.

but with the President doing his 9/11 testimony today and the situation in Fallujah i guess it just isnt going to push to the front.
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Post by Lalanae »

Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
I love the way people lump all americans into this catagory and then turn around and say we lump all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist catagory.
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Lesson in English Part 63

"so many Americans" do not equal "all americans"

"so many" implies a part of the whole
"all" implies the entire whole

Pop quiz tomorrow!
The way you used so many americans Implied a majority or at least thats what I got out of it.
Getting closer, but no cookie!

"so many" does not have to mean a majority.
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Post by Fairweather Pure »

I thought I was pretty shocked by this whole expose until I saw the pictures of the Iraqi's with wires hooked up to thier cock and balls. I guess they got the bigger shock, eh?
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Post by Cartalas »

Lalanae wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
I love the way people lump all americans into this catagory and then turn around and say we lump all people of Middle Eastern decent into the terrorist catagory.
Cart,

Lesson in English Part 63

"so many Americans" do not equal "all americans"

"so many" implies a part of the whole
"all" implies the entire whole

Pop quiz tomorrow!
The way you used so many americans Implied a majority or at least thats what I got out of it.
Getting closer, but no cookie!

"so many" does not have to mean a majority.


Your right it does not have to, but in this case it did.
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Post by Bojangels »

Lalanae wrote:I love how so many Americans believe we are more civilized than other countries. We are just as sadistic. We just know how to hide it better.

I brought this up once before a LONG time ago, referencing a passage from Charles Lindbergh's diary in which he described atrocities committed by Americans on the Japanese during WWII. He was sickened and embarressed by what he saw. Some people on this board had the nerve to defend the actions of those American soldiers, so I imagine we'll be hearing from those people soon. They'll try to justify these actions while in the same breath claim our time in Iraq was well-spent, ousting a barbaric dictator who engaged in torturing people.

I bet they won't even see their own hypocrisy.
How does this imply that we're as sadistic or uncivilized as other countries? Iraqi soldiers torturing prisoners was commonplace and accepted. The fact that we even investigate this and punish those involved proves that we're more civilized. There are sick people everywhere, that's never going to change, but I wouldn't read into this as anything more than just that. A few retards who get their jollies by abusing prisoners. The American people don't stand for this kind of crap.
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Post by Arborealus »

I am amazed that the US military would place soldiers in a position of guarding POWs without mandatory coverage of the fundamentals of the Geneva Convention...The Geneva Convention is really a pretty easy read and the critical points you could hit in a couple pages with examples...Maybe a half day for a very thorough coverage?
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Post by Kelshara »

heh wonder when we will start hearing the stories about prisoners being sent to "friendly countries" with a laxer view of torture than the US...

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Post by Silvarel Mistmoon »

I am amazed that the US military would place soldiers in a position of guarding POWs without mandatory coverage of the fundamentals of the Geneva Convention...The Geneva Convention is really a pretty easy read and the critical points you could hit in a couple pages with examples...Maybe a half day for a very thorough coverage?
Those guys are trained and they do have access to the Geneva Convention.
Bottom line, they knew better. They could have just been sicko's or they could have thought hmmm they liked hurting people so bad lets see how they enjoy it.
Either way it was wrong.
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Post by Voronwë »

Silvarel Mistmoon wrote:
I am amazed that the US military would place soldiers in a position of guarding POWs without mandatory coverage of the fundamentals of the Geneva Convention...The Geneva Convention is really a pretty easy read and the critical points you could hit in a couple pages with examples...Maybe a half day for a very thorough coverage?
Those guys are trained and they do have access to the Geneva Convention.
Bottom line, they knew better. They could have just been sicko's or they could have thought hmmm they liked hurting people so bad lets see how they enjoy it.
Either way it was wrong.
according to the lawyer for the only soldier interviewed by 60 Minutes, they received no training in regards to the geneva convention.

these are not enlisted troops either, they are national guardsmen. though this guy was a prison guard back in Virginia or something, so i think that is a great statement about our prison systems, LOL.

one thing is that the military did encourage this, because military intelligence agents specifically endorsed the way that these people "feared up" the detainees before they were interogatted. at least according the the charged soldier.

of course i fully expect the pentagon to deny this. they can't win either way, cause if they didn't do it they'll deny it, and if they do use torture to prep people for interrogation with army intelligence officers then they'll deny that too.

there is a difference between the US and Iraqi armies though in this regard. The US prison guards are facing court martial for torturing these guys. the Iraqis used to get paid to do it. that is a pretty big difference.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

It's funny, all this talk and I haven't even seen the pictures yet. Anyone have a link to them?
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Post by Voronwë »

Dregor Thule wrote:It's funny, all this talk and I haven't even seen the pictures yet. Anyone have a link to them?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm ... _page.html

here are some of them.

watch the video clip linked from this page:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/ ... 4063.shtml
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Post by kyoukan »

Arborealus wrote:I am amazed that the US military would place soldiers in a position of guarding POWs without mandatory coverage of the fundamentals of the Geneva Convention...The Geneva Convention is really a pretty easy read and the critical points you could hit in a couple pages with examples...Maybe a half day for a very thorough coverage?
'
Because anyone defending Iraq's borders from a foreign invading army is a terrorist and does not fall under the geneva convention. sorry!
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Post by Silvarel Mistmoon »

As military Police they are trained to handle prisoners, I just about bet at some time in their training they also cover GC also, and guardsmen do go to training every month. IF they were full time before the guard they were trained during active duty.
I don't let the guy off that easy by him saying he wasn't trained.
I think if he feels he can push the blame else where he will and his lawyer will help him with it.

But that is just my feelings on the scumbags. :)
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Post by Arborealus »

kyoukan wrote:
Arborealus wrote:I am amazed that the US military would place soldiers in a position of guarding POWs without mandatory coverage of the fundamentals of the Geneva Convention...The Geneva Convention is really a pretty easy read and the critical points you could hit in a couple pages with examples...Maybe a half day for a very thorough coverage?
'
Because anyone defending Iraq's borders from a foreign invading army is a terrorist and does not fall under the geneva convention. sorry!
Heh I havent heard of anyone from Iraq being moved to Gitmo though I wouldn't put it past the administration...for the most part the prisoners taken in Iraq are officially given PoW status...
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Post by Markulas »

wait one second now...... How come I can't find any links from Fox on this story?
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Post by Bojangels »

I love how those fucking British think they're more civilized than other countries. Maybe we should send POWs there to be tortured. Wonder why no one else has brought this up here, or did I miss that thread?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm
Speaking on condition of anonymity, the soldiers told the paper no charges were brought against the unnamed captive. They allege during his eight-hour ordeal he was threatened with execution, his jaw broken and his teeth smashed. After being beaten and urinated on, he was driven away and dumped from the back of a moving vehicle, the soldiers claimed, unaware if he was dead.

Ten claims of torture have been investigated and five inquiries are ongoing, including one in which soldiers of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, based in Catterick, North Yorkshire, have been questioned about the alleged killing of an Iraqi.
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kyoukan
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Post by kyoukan »

they are british. it's in their blood to mistreat arabs. :p
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Post by nobody »

kyoukan wrote:they are british. it's in their blood to mistreat arabs. :p
that's a stereotype. that's like me saying it's in arab blood to kill non-muslim's.

either way, those guys are the minority. it's easy to look at a few bad apple's and stereotype a whole group like MI. saying that b/c of what those fucktards did, then the "military endorsed it", is generalizing a whole group. just like it is to say all muslim's are terrorist's b/c a few of them crashed our planes into the WTC. these guys suck and should go to hell. they give the soldiers who have good intention's in Iraq a bad name. and them shifting the blame to their superiors (though that blame is due) show's what is wrong with this world. too many people sadly won't to take responsibility for their actions. nothing is their fault.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
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Post by Sionistic »

going to fight a war without un consent doesnt mean we can just ignore all the rules too
us doing it to them says its ok for them to do it to us
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Post by Dregor Thule »

It's difficult to tell who the bad guys are sometimes.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:It's difficult to tell who the bad guys are sometimes.
A good place to start is for you to look in the mirror.
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Post by Lynks »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:It's difficult to tell who the bad guys are sometimes.
A good place to start is for you to look in the mirror.
I haven't heard a comeback like that since I was in grade 3. But seriously, the US is not totally innocent.
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Post by Arborealus »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
Your mirror comment while not applicable to Dregor, is dead on...All US Citizens should look in the mirror...because in this WE are the bad guy...
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Post by Voronwë »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
well considering a huge problem with Iraq is "winning hearts and minds", and these pictures are not doing that now that they are out in circulation.

If the US does not respond in a very public and forceful way to these actions it will be absolutely devastating to our efforts in Iraq.

How can we come into Iraq and say we are liberating them from oppression and then these images be shown on TV and have ANY credibility.

our credibility is absolutely critical to the success of our mission in Iraq. If we cannot get the people on board with us, they will continue to strengthen the numbers of the insurgency, and we are completely fucked.

And if we lose in Iraq, we have likely created a much worse enemy than we ever had before 9/11/2001.

this prisoner mistreatment is a collassal blunder, and if not handled properly could be a complete unmitigated dissaster for the US.

So i think in that regard, if you are "thinking of us" and more specifically the interests of the United States, you would want swift, publicized discipline for these soldiers.
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Post by Vetiria »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
Of course, let's let our soldiers act just like Saddam Hussein. Why did we invade the country again?
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Post by miir »

either way, those guys are the minority. it's easy to look at a few bad apple's and stereotype a whole group like MI. saying that b/c of what those fucktards did, then the "military endorsed it", is generalizing a whole group.
I doubt anyone honestly believes the US military endorsed these individuals actions but their actions doreflect directly on their country.

How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes
Some of the shit that flows out of your mouth is simply astounding.
And you wonder why these fundamentalist groups hold such disdain for Americans.
The arrogant, prejudiced, self important, self centered ignorant attitudes of people like you are responible for everything that is wrong with US foreign policy and your current administration.

Do you have any idea how damaging incidents like these really are?
Borderline Islamic fundies are going to see these pictures and read these stories and turn hardcore militant fundamentalist.

These fucking yahoos are likely gonna be personally responsible for the deaths of a few hundred Americans.



When a similar situation happened with the Canadian Airborne Regiment in Somalia, the government harshly punished the offenders, disbanded the regiment and put policy/training into effect to help prevent shit like that from happening again in the future.
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Post by Kelshara »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
I am plenty concerned about you already, thanks.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Haha. I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on to you. Now don't make me tell Teacher on you!
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Voronwë wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How about being a little less concerned about the fucking bad guy, and a little more concerned about us. Fucking assholes.
well considering a huge problem with Iraq is "winning hearts and minds", and these pictures are not doing that now that they are out in circulation.

If the US does not respond in a very public and forceful way to these actions it will be absolutely devastating to our efforts in Iraq.

How can we come into Iraq and say we are liberating them from oppression and then these images be shown on TV and have ANY credibility.

our credibility is absolutely critical to the success of our mission in Iraq. If we cannot get the people on board with us, they will continue to strengthen the numbers of the insurgency, and we are completely fucked.

And if we lose in Iraq, we have likely created a much worse enemy than we ever had before 9/11/2001.

this prisoner mistreatment is a collassal blunder, and if not handled properly could be a complete unmitigated dissaster for the US.

So i think in that regard, if you are "thinking of us" and more specifically the interests of the United States, you would want swift, publicized discipline for these soldiers.
The point is it shouldn't be on fucking TV in the first place. The media shouldn't be allowed to see any of this.
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