Did you pay more tax in 2003 than 2002?

[Voronwë]

trying to ask this in a way that is meaningful, but also not slanted.


Was your tax burden higher in 2003 than 2002?

for instance lets say your relative tax rate in 2002 was 25% and in 2003 was 23%, then you would vote "NO"

edit: I am of course talking about Federal Income Tax

[Sirensa]

I dunno I haven't done my taxes yet

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I paid less in taxes and got more back. Happy times

[Aslanna]

I can't find my 2002 Return. So don't know!

[Voronwë]

I dunno I haven't done my taxes yet

added an option jsut for you!!

anyway, we paid a lot more.

i was surprised because we bought a house so had the closing cost write offs, had a child so got that tax credit, had more mortgage interest to write off (our new house was more expensive than old one, so more interest), AND had an investment that lost money. By the way, neither one of us received more than 4% in our annual raise.

[Aslanna]

I paid less in taxes and got more back. Happy times

Go Bush!

[Arundel Pajo]

OMG... they *raped* me on self-employment tax this year. The penalty for being self-employed for 2003 was over 3 grand!

Tax relief for the American worker, my rosey ass. I got shafted... Sort of ironic, too, that being self-employed would carry such a stiff penalty when this country's economy was founded on the entepreneurial spirit.

edit>> made less this year, and paid nearly twice as much.

[Vetiria]

Made the same, paid more, didn't get any of it back.

[Sirensa]

added an option jsut for you!!

YAY ME!!

We have a word in our family we've all grown to love... extension, extension, extension.

I think I got my 2002 taxes in around October 2003. Hehe.

I have convoluted tax issues - it's really not my fault!

[Trek]

Fuck yes I paid more, hoping they approve me for monthly payments, holy hell

[kyoukan]

I paid less in taxes and got more back. Happy times

your country is in a debt hole that you won't climb out of until about 2040 if you started being fiscally responsible *today* and it's happy times? why are some people so fucking partisan that they don't mind being stolen from as long as they are being robbed by people they are told to like? how much did you get back from your lawn mowing job? a dollar?

[Fesuni Chopsui]

I don't pay taxes! Mwahahaha

[Deward]

My percentage was lower this year but I paid more in taxes. Taxes are a bitch and they will never get better with our greedy government officials thinking they can tax the hell out of us every which way they can think of. All I can hope for is another Tea Party and revolution.

[kyoukan]

that isn't true. if you are mega wealthy then you got a nice cut this year.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I paid less in taxes and got more back. Happy times

your country is in a debt hole that you won't climb out of until about 2040 if you started being fiscally responsible *today* and it's happy times? why are some people so fucking partisan that they don't mind being stolen from as long as they are being robbed by people they are told to like? how much did you get back from your lawn mowing job? a dollar?

Why can't you put away your partisan anger and just discuss this topic?

My concern is for my family. I live paycheck to paycheck. I work two jobs. My full time job doing International Trade Letters of Credit for a bank and my second being a pizza delivery man. If you must know.

If I can get more of my money back to help me make my bills, buy my kids nice xmas presents, birthdays presents, take my wife to dinner a few times a year, then yes I am very happy...you ignorant bitch

[Krurk]

I think my tax relief is in the same drawer as our Iraqi exit strategy.

[Aaeamdar]

Though I voted Yes, this largely has to do with being unemployed through most of 2003.

[Xzion]

I paid less in taxes and got more back. Happy times

your country is in a debt hole that you won't climb out of until about 2040 if you started being fiscally responsible *today* and it's happy times? why are some people so fucking partisan that they don't mind being stolen from as long as they are being robbed by people they are told to like? how much did you get back from your lawn mowing job? a dollar?

Why can't you put away your partisan anger and just discuss this topic?

My concern is for my family. I live paycheck to paycheck. I work two jobs. My full time job doing International Trade Letters of Credit for a bank and my second being a pizza delivery man. If you must know.

If I can get more of my money back to help me make my bills, buy my kids nice xmas presents, birthdays presents, take my wife to dinner a few times a year, then yes I am very happy...you ignorant bitch

Wouldnt it be logical then to be a democrat, being that they give tax cuts to the middle class?

[Xzion]

that isn't true. if you are mega wealthy then you got a nice cut this year.

Not necessarily mega wealthy, anyone who gets over like 350k got a nice tax cut, being that they are a ridiculously higher percentage then everyone else’s. Everyone should pay an equal percentage of taxes, that is the one thing I owe credit to the republicans for, now only if they weren’t for the most part racist, social freedom hating, religious, assholes who do an asspoor job on international affairs I would consider registering republican and stop getting bitched at every wednesday night by my brother

[Sueven]

You don't consider 350k a year to be mega wealthy? Jesus, we come from different worlds.

Personal advice: I know you're rich personally. You yourself pointed out that the relative conservative distaste for vertical equity is your main source of respect for the republican party. You also tend to criticize republicans for almost everything else. I just want to point out that your major political deviation is focused on an issue that would grant you a large, personal, financial benefit.

I'm not saying that your views are necessarily motivated by greed, or that your views are unfounded or incorrect regardless of motive. I do, however, think that you might find it rewarding to do some research on vertical equity, progressive taxes, and our tax system, and either strengthen your own views or change them.

I know that I come off sounding like a supremely pretentious asshole in this post. I'm really not trying to be. I don't have more than a cursory knowledge of the subject myself, and there's plenty of things I don't know. I'm trying to give legitimate friendly advice.

Also, if you already know a shitload about the topic, then just ignore me altogether.

[Markulas]

You'd be an idiot to think the majority of people pay less in taxes now. Why? Because the increase in spending and the added level of debt. Our country has to make it up somewhere.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Wouldnt it be logical then to be a democrat, being that they give tax cuts to the middle class?

I beleieve that is democrat candidate rhetoric. Dems usually subscribe to a tax and spend philosophy.

[Arundel Pajo]

Wouldnt it be logical then to be a democrat, being that they give tax cuts to the middle class?

I beleieve that is democrat candidate rhetoric. Dems usually subscribe to a tax and spend philosophy.

...as opposed to the current administration. Though I admit that I usually favor what is traditionally thought of as Republican economics, I think Bush has (along with the last couple of Repubs before him, back to Reagan) effectively shattered that distinction.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Yes, but Arundel....this is an exception. We are in a war time situation. So Republican economics hasn't had a chance to be put back into place yet.

[Xzion]

You don't consider 350k a year to be mega wealthy? Jesus, we come from different worlds.

Personal advice: I know you're rich personally. You yourself pointed out that the relative conservative distaste for vertical equity is your main source of respect for the republican party. You also tend to criticize republicans for almost everything else. I just want to point out that your major political deviation is focused on an issue that would grant you a large, personal, financial benefit.

I'm not saying that your views are necessarily motivated by greed, or that your views are unfounded or incorrect regardless of motive. I do, however, think that you might find it rewarding to do some research on vertical equity, progressive taxes, and our tax system, and either strengthen your own views or change them.

I know that I come off sounding like a supremely pretentious asshole in this post. I'm really not trying to be. I don't have more than a cursory knowledge of the subject myself, and there's plenty of things I don't know. I'm trying to give legitimate friendly advice.

Also, if you already know a shitload about the topic, then just ignore me altogether.

I believe that regardless of my economic backround weather rich or poor or middle class, everyone should pay a flat out equal percentage in taxes.
There are an assload of hidden advantages, write offs, etc a wealthier person/ buisness executive can get away with under this philosophy, so its unfair to say that either system works that well.

I do have to admit regarding that situation i have pretty much been only exposed to very biased right wing arguments and have never heard much of a discussion defending the other side, though i am open minded to doing some reaserch regarding vertical equity and hearing a valid discussion from a person with a leftist view on vertical equity.
My political philosophy is simple, i support social and economic freedom/equality. But as i have said, i have been exposed to a very biased view regarding taxes, and honestly dont think i can give an unbiased argument, at the moment anyhow.

About the greed issue, if i was a greedy unthoughtful basterd looking for only personal gain i would vote to re elect that dumb asshole that managed to somehow get elected president, and theres no way in hell thats going down

[Traz-KOE]

I didn't pay taxes in either 2002 or 2003.

[Animale]

Gonna call bullshit on that one Mid... Bush (and the Republican controlled congress) has done little to control spending in ANY area of the government, while cutting taxes to, mostly, businesses and wealthy individuals. You can't eat your cake and have it to... its either cut taxes OR raise spending, not both.

War time situation my ass. It's plain ol' political bullshit here... can't cut spending because that would be a tough political choice (i.e. do I cut farm subsidies or do I cut highway spending?), and he "needs" to cut taxes because that's what he ran on. Nothing more... he's not willing to do the former to pay for the latter, but pushes the latter through anyway... come hell or high water.

Animale

[Arundel Pajo]

But it goes back to Reagan.

I love the traditionally conservative idea of a small government that stays out of our private lives, taxes only what it needs, and adheres to the letter of the constitution.

Match that with some of the more liberal stands on equality, civil rights, foreign policy and the environment, and you might just have my ideal party.

Problem is, somewhere around the early 80's, the GOP stopped staying out of our private lives, and became the party of the moral. They picked up Keynesian economic ideas that don't work (trickle down). They started espousing an expansionist foreign policy. And they started spending just as much as the dems they opposed.

At least that's how I see it. Kinda makes it so that it's hard to really identify with either party. It makes my voting more reactive than proactive - I might not like person X that much, but dammit, I'm voting against person Y. That's not good.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Totally with you Arundel. I yearn for what the GoP used to be as well. I hope they go back to it soon.

[Xzion]

Totally with you Arundel. I yearn for what the GoP used to be as well. I hope they go back to it soon.

...and the best way to do that is to reelect Bush?
Maybe if americans take him out of office, and stop voting for this new era of republicans, the GoP will start to reform.

I do see some hope in (a poor ass example) people with stances on the issues like ahhh-nuld. He has very liberal social views and still stands for small government, etc.

War times?!
lol this is only a "war time" becouse of dubyah, if even mccain was elected, this entire mess would have never existed in the 1st place.

[Lugon]

Are we talking just federal income tax here? Because, looking at my 1040 and the tax charts there is no way most people paid more. I made more last year and my tax is actually less than it was the previous year by a very small amount but still less. The personal exemption is larger and the charts are all adjusted down. I ran some quick numbers and anyone from 10k a year on up pays less it seems using the new forms and tax tables. Not addressing the politics of the issue but I don't see how anyone could be paying more on last years earnings unless there is some category thats killing them that doesn't apply to me or something. Child credit gone wrong, or some other category working to their disadvantage. Please excuse me for my ignorance if this overview is including state income taxes. We don't have it in Texas so I'm not sure if they are due at the same time in some places or not as the federal income taxes. This isn't an attack on anyone saying their lying, just more of a question on how their taxes are actually higher.

Lugon

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Totally with you Arundel. I yearn for what the GoP used to be as well. I hope they go back to it soon.

...and the best way to do that is to reelect Bush?
Maybe if americans take him out of office, and stop voting for this new era of republicans, the GoP will start to reform.

I do see some hope in (a poor ass example) people with stances on the issues like ahhh-nuld. He has very liberal social views and still stands for small government, etc.

War times?!
lol this is only a "war time" becouse of dubyah, if even mccain was elected, this entire mess would have never existed in the 1st place.

Mccain wouldn't have went to war over 9-11? Sure he would have.

He might not have gone into Iraq though. But, I'm glad we had Bush in office for that reason. I'm glad we are cleaing out that part of the world. Someday their freedom will be a shining example of Bush's strength of vision.

[Fairweather Pure]

Yes, I recieved more money back from this year's return. The previous 2 years I had to pay. This year I was unemplyed for 4 months and received approximately 2 months pay in tax returns. I really can't figure the math out, but it seems if I work 12 months, I have to pay equal to one month's pay every year in taxes.

[Arundel Pajo]

Lugon -

I'm in Texas, too...but I had the misfortune of being self employed this year.

That self-employment tax is a bitch, no two ways about it. After all business deductions and depreciation, tuition deductions, losses, etc., H&R Block was able to whittle my taxable income down a good bit. Due to the self-employment penalty, however, my owed amount is 27% of my total taxable income. That's a whole lot, and I'm not happy about it.

[kyoukan]

Totally with you Arundel. I yearn for what the GoP used to be as well. I hope they go back to it soon.

it is a never ending circle of stupidity with you. your total lack of intelligence must be almost zen.

[Kluden]

Woops, I voted before I read what you were truly looking for. Yes, I paid more in a percentage value before deductions...as a total paid to the govment, no, I had my deductions in pristine order this year.

Without the deductions though...that's a different story.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Totally with you Arundel. I yearn for what the GoP used to be as well. I hope they go back to it soon.

it is a never ending circle of stupidity with you. your total lack of intelligence must be almost zen.

Ahhh......... hmmm........ okay...... I see your point. Wow, when you put it that way, how can someone disagree with you? You really should consider going into debating as a career. Of course, you would have to debate against other 8-10 year olds, but I think you would do well. I really do.

[Deward]

I am not sure what business you are in exactly Arundel but I don't know of a self-employment tax. My father has been self-employed for years and granted he doesn't make a lot of money but he hasn't had to pay much in taxes for years. Social Security will always fuck you though. I am not sure if the government will charge you double there since employers usually match what the government steals from your paycheck.

I had one year where I didn't work for a month or two and actually got a very nice return as well. The reason for this is that when you get a paycheck, the government assumes that you will make that amount for the entire year and steals accordingly. Hence if you don't pay for amonth or two then the government overestimated what you would make. Pretty fucked up that a person is better off taking a month away from work every year than working. If I could get away with it then I would take a month off every year as well.

Of course I could be totally talking out of my ass. I am not an accountant and have never actually done the numbers but I figured that is how it worked.

[Pherr the Dorf]

I made the exact same (salary no raise thing) and saved a whopping 40 bucks, thanks Dubya!

[Arundel Pajo]

Deward -

Does he pay his taxes monthly, quarterly, or yearly? Because that apparently makes a big difference. This was my first year self-employed, and I really wish somebody had sat me down and said to do my taxes as often as possible.

As it was, I had no clue. There's a self-employment penalty no matter how you do it, but it's a lot larger if you wait until the end of the year. They really don't like that.

[Sueven]

My mother is self-employed. In Pennsylvania, at least, it's definitely more expensive. I believe it's because you have to pay your own payroll tax as well as your own income tax, but I could be wrong.

[vn_Tanc]

Last year I got a ~£330 rebate. This year I owe them 88p.

I'm still blaming Bush.

[Lugon]

Trust me, I know how that self employment tax will bite you on the ass. Second half of 2002 and first half of 2003 I was self employed and just thought, well since I work for myself I don't have to pay into social security until I actually sat down and started doing my return. I got to the SE form, plugged in all the numbers, moved the total over to my 1040 and almost passed out when I realized I owed twice what I had set aside in the bank. As far as the making estimated payments during the year, screw that. Penalty for not doing it adds up to less than $200 in my case. Well worth not screwing with extra paper work quarterly.

Lugon

[Cartalas]

Made 6K more and got 812 dollars more then last year.

[masteen]

I got a refund despite having 4 dependants on my W4. Then again, I'm using a huge carryover capital loss on the burst bubble stocks I dumped last year.

[kyoukan]

Ahhh......... hmmm........ okay...... I see your point. Wow, when you put it that way, how can someone disagree with you? You really should consider going into debating as a career. Of course, you would have to debate against other 8-10 year olds, but I think you would do well. I really do.

Yes it absolutely boggles my mind that you're incapable of comprehending what I mean. The point is that no matter what argument is thrown in your face, you will blindly support, even to the extent of lying through your teeth about getting a bigger tax return, your government, just because that is who people smarter than you have told you to do. It's disgusting.

No matter what logic and fact is thrown in your face about the truth of how your government is recklessly spending you into oblivion, you will continue to drool and nod, and while you tacitly agree with it on the surface, it doesn't matter because whatever turd that is in your skull that somehow operates as a functioning brain will refuse to rationalize anything beyond "bush good, democrats bad" It doesn't make a lick of difference to you that these children you profess to have (although I personally belive if there is actually a god he wouldn't be cruel enough to allow someone like yourself to reproduce) will be paying out the ass in income and sales tax for the rest of their lives in order to support reckless government spending that could easily be avoided.

Thus the circle of stupidity. Your avatar is actually fairly accurate; as you are the moron ying to a smart person's yang.

[Xouqoa]

Last year I got a ~£330 rebate. This year I owe them 88p.

I'm still blaming Bush.

88 plat?

[kyoukan]

88 pence

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Ahhh......... hmmm........ okay...... I see your point. Wow, when you put it that way, how can someone disagree with you? You really should consider going into debating as a career. Of course, you would have to debate against other 8-10 year olds, but I think you would do well. I really do.

Yes it absolutely boggles my mind that you're incapable of comprehending what I mean. The point is that no matter what argument is thrown in your face, you will blindly support, even to the extent of lying through your teeth about getting a bigger tax return, your government, just because that is who people smarter than you have told you to do. It's disgusting.

No matter what logic and fact is thrown in your face about the truth of how your government is recklessly spending you into oblivion, you will continue to drool and nod, and while you tacitly agree with it on the surface, it doesn't matter because whatever turd that is in your skull that somehow operates as a functioning brain will refuse to rationalize anything beyond "bush good, democrats bad" It doesn't make a lick of difference to you that these children you profess to have (although I personally belive if there is actually a god he wouldn't be cruel enough to allow someone like yourself to reproduce) will be paying out the ass in income and sales tax for the rest of their lives in order to support reckless government spending that could easily be avoided.

Thus the circle of stupidity. Your avatar is actually fairly accurate; as you are the moron ying to a smart person's yang.

Gosh, yeah, you got me figured out. Why the fuck would I lie? Yes it's me who is the moron. It's me who continues to throw the conversation to a beligerant attack on someone, calling names likes liar etc. Jesus Kyo, grow the fuck up.

[Forthe]

But it goes back to Reagan.

I love the traditionally conservative idea of a small government that stays out of our private lives, taxes only what it needs, and adheres to the letter of the constitution.

Match that with some of the more liberal stands on equality, civil rights, foreign policy and the environment, and you might just have my ideal party.

Problem is, somewhere around the early 80's, the GOP stopped staying out of our private lives, and became the party of the moral. They picked up Keynesian economic ideas that don't work (trickle down). They started espousing an expansionist foreign policy. And they started spending just as much as the dems they opposed.

At least that's how I see it. Kinda makes it so that it's hard to really identify with either party. It makes my voting more reactive than proactive - I might not like person X that much, but dammit, I'm voting against person Y. That's not good.

GOP calling Democrats tax and spend is damn funny. It is quite obvious there was a radical change with Reagan. The only fiscal conservative since 1980 was a democrat. Debated including tables for debt and gdp, threw them in here so others could play with the data. Source is http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov.

US Normal GDP 1950-1980: 949.29% increase
293,800,000,000.00 - 2,789,000,000,000.00

US National debt 1950-1980: 361.45% increase
257,357,352,351.04 - 930,210,000,000.00

US Normal GDP 1980-2003: 393.69% increase
2,789,000,000,000.00 - 10,980,000,000,000.00

US National debt 1980-Yesterday: 770.23% increase
930,210,000,000.00 - 7,164,797,958,097.65

Debt/GDP
1950: 87.60%
1980: 33.35%
2003: 61.78%

<TABLE BORDER="1"><TR><TD>Date</TD><TD>US National Debt</TD><TD>Delta $</TD><TD>Delta %</TD></TR><TR><TD>4/13/2004</TD><TD>7,164,797,958,097.65</TD><TD>381,566,895,354.03</TD><TD>5.63%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/2003</TD><TD>6,783,231,062,743.62</TD><TD>554,995,097,146.46</TD><TD>8.91%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/2002</TD><TD>6,228,235,965,597.16</TD><TD>420,772,553,397.10</TD><TD>7.25%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/28/2001</TD><TD>5,807,463,412,200.06</TD><TD>133,285,202,313.20</TD><TD>2.35%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/2000</TD><TD>5,674,178,209,886.86</TD><TD>17,907,308,271.43</TD><TD>0.32%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1999</TD><TD>5,656,270,901,615.43</TD><TD>130,077,892,717.81</TD><TD>2.35%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1998</TD><TD>5,526,193,008,897.62</TD><TD>113,046,997,500.28</TD><TD>2.09%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1997</TD><TD>5,413,146,011,397.34</TD><TD>188,335,072,261.61</TD><TD>3.60%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1996</TD><TD>5,224,810,939,135.73</TD><TD>250,828,038,426.34</TD><TD>5.04%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/29/1995</TD><TD>4,973,982,900,709.39</TD><TD>281,232,990,696.07</TD><TD>5.99%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1994</TD><TD>4,692,749,910,013.32</TD><TD>281,261,026,873.94</TD><TD>6.38%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1993</TD><TD>4,411,488,883,139.38</TD><TD>346,868,227,617.72</TD><TD>8.53%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1992</TD><TD>4,064,620,655,521.66</TD><TD>399,317,303,824.63</TD><TD>10.89%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1991</TD><TD>3,665,303,351,697.03</TD><TD>431,989,899,919.78</TD><TD>13.36%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/28/1990</TD><TD>3,233,313,451,777.25</TD><TD>375,882,491,589.93</TD><TD>13.15%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/29/1989</TD><TD>2,857,430,960,187.32</TD><TD>255,093,248,146.16</TD><TD>9.80%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1988</TD><TD>2,602,337,712,041.16</TD><TD>252,060,821,088.16</TD><TD>10.72%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1987</TD><TD>2,350,276,890,953.00</TD><TD>224,974,274,294.58</TD><TD>10.59%</TD></TR><TR><TD>9/30/1986</TD><TD>2,125,302,616,658.42</TD><TD>179,361,000,198.54</TD><TD>9.22%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1985</TD><TD>1,945,941,616,459.88</TD><TD>282,975,616,459.88</TD><TD>17.02%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1984</TD><TD>1,662,966,000,000.00</TD><TD>252,264,000,000.00</TD><TD>17.88%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1983</TD><TD>1,410,702,000,000.00</TD><TD>213,629,000,000.00</TD><TD>17.85%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1982</TD><TD>1,197,073,000,000.00</TD><TD>168,344,000,000.00</TD><TD>16.36%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1981</TD><TD>1,028,729,000,000.00</TD><TD>98,519,000,000.00</TD><TD>10.59%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1980</TD><TD>930,210,000,000.00</TD><TD>85,094,000,000.00</TD><TD>10.07%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1979</TD><TD>845,116,000,000.00</TD><TD>55,909,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.08%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/29/1978</TD><TD>789,207,000,000.00</TD><TD>70,264,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.77%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/30/1977</TD><TD>718,943,000,000.00</TD><TD>65,399,000,000.00</TD><TD>10.01%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1976</TD><TD>653,544,000,000.00</TD><TD>76,895,000,000.00</TD><TD>13.33%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1975</TD><TD>576,649,000,000.00</TD><TD>83,984,000,000.00</TD><TD>17.05%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1974</TD><TD>492,665,000,000.00</TD><TD>22,766,960,445.30</TD><TD>4.85%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1973</TD><TD>469,898,039,554.70</TD><TD>20,599,973,435.70</TD><TD>4.58%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/29/1972</TD><TD>449,298,066,119.00</TD><TD>25,167,104,159.05</TD><TD>5.93%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1971</TD><TD>424,130,961,959.95</TD><TD>34,972,558,269.69</TD><TD>8.99%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1970</TD><TD>389,158,403,690.26</TD><TD>20,932,822,435.85</TD><TD>5.68%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1969</TD><TD>368,225,581,254.41</TD><TD>10,196,956,251.50</TD><TD>2.85%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1968</TD><TD>358,028,625,002.91</TD><TD>13,365,615,257.73</TD><TD>3.88%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/29/1967</TD><TD>344,663,009,745.18</TD><TD>15,343,760,378.50</TD><TD>4.66%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/30/1966</TD><TD>329,319,249,366.68</TD><TD>8,415,139,324.64</TD><TD>2.62%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1965</TD><TD>320,904,110,042.04</TD><TD>2,963,637,323.66</TD><TD>0.93%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1964</TD><TD>317,940,472,718.38</TD><TD>8,593,627,659.21</TD><TD>2.78%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1963</TD><TD>309,346,845,059.17</TD><TD>5,876,764,569.90</TD><TD>1.94%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1962</TD><TD>303,470,080,489.27</TD><TD>7,301,319,274.35</TD><TD>2.47%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/29/1961</TD><TD>296,168,761,214.92</TD><TD>5,951,945,973.24</TD><TD>2.05%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/30/1960</TD><TD>290,216,815,241.68</TD><TD>-580,956,475.95</TD><TD>-0.20%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1959</TD><TD>290,797,771,717.63</TD><TD>7,875,348,133.76</TD><TD>2.78%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1958</TD><TD>282,922,423,583.87</TD><TD>8,024,639,293.15</TD><TD>2.92%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1957</TD><TD>274,897,784,290.72</TD><TD>-1,729,743,705.39</TD><TD>-0.63%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1956</TD><TD>276,627,527,996.11</TD><TD>-4,141,025,192.85</TD><TD>-1.47%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/30/1955</TD><TD>280,768,553,188.96</TD><TD>2,018,738,797.63</TD><TD>0.72%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1954</TD><TD>278,749,814,391.33</TD><TD>3,581,694,261.94</TD><TD>1.30%</TD></TR><TR><TD>12/31/1953</TD><TD>275,168,120,129.39</TD><TD>9,097,058,490.82</TD><TD>3.42%</TD></TR><TR><TD>6/30/1953</TD><TD>266,071,061,638.57</TD><TD>6,965,882,853.14</TD><TD>2.69%</TD></TR><TR><TD>6/30/1952</TD><TD>259,105,178,785.43</TD><TD>3,883,201,970.50</TD><TD>1.52%</TD></TR><TR><TD>6/29/1951</TD><TD>255,221,976,814.93</TD><TD>-2,135,375,536.11</TD><TD>-0.83%</TD></TR><TR><TD>6/30/1950</TD><TD>257,357,352,351.04</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE BORDER="1"><TR><TD>Year</TD><TD>US Normal GDP</TD><TD>Delta $</TD><TD>Delta %</TD></TR><TR><TD>2003</TD><TD>10,980,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>500,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>4.77%</TD></TR><TR><TD>2002</TD><TD>10,480,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>380,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>3.76%</TD></TR><TR><TD>2001</TD><TD>10,100,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>283,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>2.88%</TD></TR><TR><TD>2000</TD><TD>9,817,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>549,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.92%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1999</TD><TD>9,268,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>521,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.96%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1998</TD><TD>8,747,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>443,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.33%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1997</TD><TD>8,304,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>488,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>6.24%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1996</TD><TD>7,816,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>419,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.66%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1995</TD><TD>7,397,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>325,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>4.60%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1994</TD><TD>7,072,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>415,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>6.23%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1993</TD><TD>6,657,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>320,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.05%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1992</TD><TD>6,337,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>342,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.70%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1991</TD><TD>5,995,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>192,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>3.31%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1990</TD><TD>5,803,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>319,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.82%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1989</TD><TD>5,484,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>381,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.47%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1988</TD><TD>5,103,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>364,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.68%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1987</TD><TD>4,739,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>277,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>6.21%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1986</TD><TD>4,462,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>242,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.73%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1985</TD><TD>4,220,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>287,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.30%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1984</TD><TD>3,933,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>397,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>11.23%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1983</TD><TD>3,536,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>281,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.63%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1982</TD><TD>3,255,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>127,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>4.06%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1981</TD><TD>3,128,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>339,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>12.15%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1980</TD><TD>2,789,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>226,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.82%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1979</TD><TD>2,563,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>269,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>11.73%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1978</TD><TD>2,294,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>264,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>13.00%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1977</TD><TD>2,030,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>205,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>11.23%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1976</TD><TD>1,825,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>187,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>11.42%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1975</TD><TD>1,638,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>138,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.20%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1974</TD><TD>1,500,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>118,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.54%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1973</TD><TD>1,382,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>144,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>11.63%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1972</TD><TD>1,238,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>111,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.85%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1971</TD><TD>1,127,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>89,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.57%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1970</TD><TD>1,038,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>53,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.42%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1969</TD><TD>984,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>74,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.20%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1968</TD><TD>910,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>77,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.30%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1967</TD><TD>832,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>44,800,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.69%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1966</TD><TD>787,800,000,000.00</TD><TD>68,700,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.55%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1965</TD><TD>719,100,000,000.00</TD><TD>55,500,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.36%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1964</TD><TD>663,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>45,900,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.43%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1963</TD><TD>617,700,000,000.00</TD><TD>32,100,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.48%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1962</TD><TD>585,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>40,900,000,000.00</TD><TD>7.51%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1961</TD><TD>544,700,000,000.00</TD><TD>18,300,000,000.00</TD><TD>3.48%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1960</TD><TD>526,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>19,800,000,000.00</TD><TD>3.91%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1959</TD><TD>506,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>39,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>8.43%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1958</TD><TD>467,200,000,000.00</TD><TD>6,100,000,000.00</TD><TD>1.32%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1957</TD><TD>461,100,000,000.00</TD><TD>23,600,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.39%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1956</TD><TD>437,500,000,000.00</TD><TD>22,700,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.47%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1955</TD><TD>414,800,000,000.00</TD><TD>34,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>9.04%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1954</TD><TD>380,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>1,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>0.26%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1953</TD><TD>379,400,000,000.00</TD><TD>21,100,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.89%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1952</TD><TD>358,300,000,000.00</TD><TD>19,000,000,000.00</TD><TD>5.60%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1951</TD><TD>339,300,000,000.00</TD><TD>45,500,000,000.00</TD><TD>15.49%</TD></TR><TR><TD>1950</TD><TD>293,800,000,000.00</TD></TR></TABLE>