Apathy...

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » April 8, 2004, 2:30 am

April 7th is the 10 year anniversary of the beginning of the genocidal massacres that killed an estimated 800 000 people in Rwanda over 100 days. A number of violent deaths that dwarfs anything this side of the 2nd World War. A number that is greater than two 9/11 terror attacks per day for 100 days.

How many people remember?

How many people care?

800 000 people the UN couldn't save because the world powers didn't give a shit about that piece of Africa.

People get all weepy over 9/11, even those who didn't know anyone involved, yet no one seemed to care then and no one seems to pay much heed now.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 2:58 am

not to be cynical but what have you DONE about it? i agree with you, this world is way too apathetic. people want to talk about all the worlds problems but they all expect someone else to fix it. i'm not saying everyone or anyone in particular. there are a lot of great people out there but the world could evidently use a lot more help.

Metaphantasus · Post by **Metaphantasus** » April 8, 2004, 4:51 am

Nobody....right haha hmmmmm.....from your quote alone "My goal is to live forever" I can already see you're full of problems. You should read "The Denial of Death." ........maybe pick up buddhism...

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 5:27 am

juu nin to iro

As soon as I can find a way to get my hands on it from here I will.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » April 8, 2004, 5:39 am

800 000 people the UN couldn't save because the world powers didn't give a shit about that piece of Africa

The UN is getting bad PR on this issue. The UN was in Rwanda, though not in great numbers but it would have made little difference.
The number one guideline for UN peacekeepers is that they are NEVER allowed to interfere with the security forces of the recognised government of the country they're in. Rwanda's recognised government's army committed some of the biggest massacres. The UN peacekeepers were there but their hands were tied.

http://www.mediareviewnet.com/We%20Did%20Nothing.htm

I recommend the book reviewed in the link above.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 8, 2004, 6:07 am

A very good book about this is Shake Hands With the Devil by Romeo Dallaire, who was a Canadian general that was in charge of peacekeeping operations during the Rwanda genocide. He has had a rough time of it since it happened because he blamed himself for a lot of the bullshit ball dropping from the UN bureaucracy and general apathy of world leaders at the time (it was just in the news recently that Clinton had intelligence that there was a massive genocide going on in Rwanda before the rest of the world found out, and he asked his cabinet to bury it because he didn't want the US to get involved).

I saw Dallaire speak last year at UBC and some of the stuff he was witness to and what he wasn't allowed to stop is truly heartbreaking. There is a pretty decent story about him here.

Although pragmatically speaking, there have been worse genocides in Africa before and there will be worse ones in the future, because Africans are stupid. They can't seem to stop killing each other as often as they can, and they don't even seem to have the slightest desire to want to stop. They were doing it 1000's of years before Europeans "discovered" the continent and they haven't let up since.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 6:12 am

ditto

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 9:43 am

No oil in Africa, of course they did not want to get involved.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » April 8, 2004, 10:40 am

Yep,

If there isn't an outside need for that region to be stable, they're going to have a hard time getting the world's attention.

sucks

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » April 8, 2004, 10:49 am

kyoukan wrote:A very good book about this is Shake Hands With the Devil by Romeo Dallaire, who was a Canadian general that was in charge of peacekeeping operations during the Rwanda genocide. He has had a rough time of it since it happened because he blamed himself for a lot of the bullshit ball dropping from the UN bureaucracy and general apathy of world leaders at the time (it was just in the news recently that Clinton had intelligence that there was a massive genocide going on in Rwanda before the rest of the world found out, and he asked his cabinet to bury it because he didn't want the US to get involved).

I saw Dallaire speak last year at UBC and some of the stuff he was witness to and what he wasn't allowed to stop is truly heartbreaking. There is a pretty decent story about him here.

I also saw him speak in Toronto last year and as Kyoukan stated the things that the peacekeepers were forced to witness and were powerless to control is astounding. One instance I remember was a village that had been taken over by some militia group and the populace slaughtered except for two women who had babies. The militia forced these women to fight with machettes with thier babies strapped to their backs. I forget the reason that the peacekeeping troops were not able to intervene but I cannot imagine holding an automatic weapon and not opening fire on the perpetrators of this horror.

If you remove the bad acting and the hollywood hero script from the movie "Tears of the Sun" you can see some pretty accurate depictions of the horrors being carried out regularly in some parts of Africa and the complete disregard for life. It is heartbreaking.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 10:58 am

You know, I actually watched "Tears of the Sun" not too long ago and I thought the exact same thing. No wonder a lot of the people who go out as peace keepers or on special ops missions go crazy when they get back. Friend of mine back home went to the Balkan several times and some of the stories he has told...

I could never go on a mission like that, I wouldn't be able to just stand there and watch it.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » April 8, 2004, 12:38 pm

Wait a minute.

Did Atokal and Kyoukan just agree on something?

Metaphantasus · Post by **Metaphantasus** » April 8, 2004, 11:54 pm

nobody wrote:juu nin to iro

ten years and color?

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » April 9, 2004, 12:29 am

Metaphantasus wrote:
nobody wrote:juu nin to iro

ten years and color?

"nen" is years, not "nin"...."sai" if you're counting years.

"nin" is a counter for people.

Metaphantasus · Post by **Metaphantasus** » April 10, 2004, 12:44 am

Aah yes. But it still doesn't make sense.....10 people and color?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 10, 2004, 12:53 am

Mak wrote:Wait a minute.

Did Atokal and Kyoukan just agree on something?

Rivers and seas boiling! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 10, 2004, 12:56 am

ten poeple ten colors = diferent stokes for different folks

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » April 11, 2004, 10:11 am

masteen wrote:
Mak wrote:Wait a minute.

Did Atokal and Kyoukan just agree on something?
Rivers and seas boiling! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!

I mean c'mon, they both live on the same planet. Mathematically speaking there was always some slim chance they would have an agreement about something. You know... odds about the same of me winning the Powerball.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » April 11, 2004, 7:34 pm

I was astounded too, but then I realized something. They are agreeing that genocide is bad. If Atokal was going to argue this point for the sake of arguing, it would defy all logic.