Iraqi Christians

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 7, 2004, 9:41 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20 ... -9870r.htm

"They say, 'You have to be a Muslim, or else we will kill you.'"

Sad

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » April 8, 2004, 12:04 am

A glimpse into being Jewish I'm afraid.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » April 8, 2004, 2:03 am

Heh, this sounds familiar.

We're we just talking about this in another thread?

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 2:28 am

if you're talking about somebody being offended that we are happily killing fucking terrorist's over here

then maybe.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 8, 2004, 3:23 am

When Saddam Hussein was in power this kind of stuff never happened. Iraqis were forced to follow the secular laws of the country, but now it is anarchy.

But I guess freedom means the freedom to execute other people based on the persecution of their religion. Nice liberation there, USA.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 3:32 am

no different than the freedom God gave us to damn ourselves. it's better to die free than live under oppression.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 8, 2004, 3:43 am

pretty easy for you to say; you're not dead.

moron.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 4:11 am

http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/henry-liberty.html

no, but i am risking my fucking life to give these people a chance to at least know what freedopm feels like, you ingrateful fuck. why don't you go live in the fucking desert with no running water, no electricity, TV and music outlawed, have all your books burned and told that you will be killed if you don't comply. sounds to me like you don't think it's that bad a gig. have you seen videos of Saddam's sons duckhunting? he thought the water was too dirty for his dog so he sent his "friends" in to fetch it out with their teeth. when he said he didn't want to Saddams fucked up son, your buddy, shot bullets by his head until he was forced to comply. that "friend" eventually expressed how he didn't like the way he was treated and was killed along with his family. all for the sake of amusement. Saddam had torture chambers that would drip acid from the ceiling at intervals that were just barely impossible to avoid. and he needed no reason to torture you. that is why i take great pleasure in seeing terrorist fucks die. because while you sit there and type away on your computer and playing games there's tons of Afghani, Iraqi, Kurdish, and Rwandan children who will never even see the internet b/c those who have oppressed them didn't want them to have the freedom to learn. you seem pretty intelligent and i assume you like to learn. so do the kids ruled by tyrants like Omar and Saddam. kids here beg for us to build them schools. they're not asking for tv's and playstations and barbie dolls and shit that we take for granted. they just want to grow up to be a doctor or teacher. there's a man here who is 31 years old and is so grateful to go back to the 8th fucking grade so he can get an education and be a doctor like he always dreamed. i am looking at a fellow at this very moment who literally risks his life everyday to come here and work on the post to help us "imperialistic" Americans.

it's sad that people's lives had to be wasted providing you with what you take for granted. you are fucking pathetic.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » April 8, 2004, 4:38 am

Metaphantasus · Post by **Metaphantasus** » April 8, 2004, 4:39 am

You're risking your life? Hmm, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that "ingrateful" was a typo. Here's just a little insight, history is just coming back to bight christians in the ass for being stupid in the first place. Back in the day, Muslims were just chillin, retrieving burried texts from aristotle and plato, making paper, and pretty much expanding their minds by LEARNING, when along came the catholic church, thinking that because muslims weren't following there idea of what was right (which by the way set us back about 1000 years in technology, math, and science) and started destroying muslim temples and synagogues via the crusades. So if you wanna talk about dumb asses, blame the christians for being close minded morons and starting some shit hundreds of years ago with a culture who is just now recuperated enough to start retaliating for the bullshit we pulled then.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 5:18 am

i'm not arguing for Christians against Muslims. i'm arguing for freedom against oppression. by no means are christians shining examples for the world to live by. but why does what they did then warrent what is going on still? and why does what is going on now warrent our retaliation? because your father killed my father i should kill you?

about ingrateful: Definition: [n] a person who shows no gratitude

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \In"grate`\ (?; 277), a. [L. ingratus. See
{Ingrateful}.]
Ingrateful. [Obs. or Poetic] --Bacon.

\In"grate`\, n.
An ungrateful person. --Milton.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » April 8, 2004, 5:33 am

\In"grate`\, n.
An ungrateful person. --Milton.

You also seem to be confusing the situation in Iraq with Afghanistan. Nobody's way of life is being defended, nor freedom saved in Iraq. You can argue the reasons but the world is being protected from nothing by the actions in Iraq.
As well as that, citing an example of someone who chose to suck up to a lunatic dictator getting rough treatment isn't exactly illustrative. Neither is using Saddam's torture chambers as a reason to kill terrorists - you realise AQ terrorists had nothing to do with Saddam's regime, yes? That they pretty much hated each other, right?

I could go on but I've wasted enough time on your trolling bullshit all ready.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 5:58 am

my point i was trying to make with the article was one of oppression. i've said before, if you would listen, that we didn't go about iraq the right way. i didn't say they were reasons for invading. what i was trying to illustrate was that is is better to fight and die seeking liberty than live under those conditions. freedom isn't free you know. the very fact that they are stating their opinion as Iraqi's demonstrates that they are exercising the freedom that you say is not being defended. think they were allowed to express their views before?

i know the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq better than you. i know that both regimes oppressed, and killed innocent people. the difference is, Afghansistan willingly harbored terrorists who had oppenly attacked the United States directly on more than one occasion. and that is why we were justified in invading Afghanistan as opposed to Iraq where we had no proof.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » April 8, 2004, 9:17 am

You sure spend a lot of time on a message board, for someone who is risking their life day in and day out.

What are you, the front line internet browser?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » April 8, 2004, 9:45 am

Truant wrote:You sure spend a lot of time on a message board, for someone who is risking their life day in and day out.

Lol ya, I was wondering the same thing.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 9:54 am

Hence my comments in a previous thread. I refuse to take anything this moron says seriously until an IP check has been done. Of course, I probably wont take his stupid drivel seriously afterwards either simply because it is.. well.. stupid nonsense.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » April 8, 2004, 10:30 am

Rather than attack the person who disagrees with you personally, why not do like tanc and address his statements?

I'm not specifically talking to you Kel.

I'm talking in general. Anytime some new guy comes along you guys try to discredit them if they say anything that differs from your opinion.

Discredit the arguement, not the person.

Every person is their own expert when it comes to life, with an individual and qualified take.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 10:42 am

kyoukan wrote:When Saddam Hussein was in power this kind of stuff never happened. Iraqis were forced to follow the secular laws of the country, but now it is anarchy.

But I guess freedom means the freedom to execute other people based on the persecution of their religion. Nice liberation there, USA.

Yeah those news reports about the quality of Iraq life were real uplifting when sadaam was in power.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 10:54 am

Actually Cart read up some, in some areas the Iraqi people had it better than a lot of their neighbors. In other areas they certainly did not.

Adex,
I've argued his points in other threads. But if it is as I kind of expect, I don't believe a word he says. His post amount and times don't really work out with what he says he is doing/where he says he is. And honestly.. it is hard to argue some of the rambling lunacies he is posting.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » April 8, 2004, 1:08 pm

to give these people a chance to at least know what freedopm feels like,

its not really giving them a chance when they cant go back to what they had, thats forcing freedom on them, with total anarchy too
we had anarchy back a while ago, then this thing came along called civilization

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 1:10 pm

lol, do an IP check, i don't really care. half my job is to monitor the news which means i have access to the internet among other sources. plus, you think there's a whole lot else to do around here? i can't go to the movies. i don't care if you believe me or not. i dont expect everyone or anyone to agree with me. that's why i started posting here, to hear other people's opinions. but half the time all i get i..."this guys full of shit, and makes no sense". well maybe freedom doesn't make sense to some of you, i'm gathering that already.

anyway, i like your point Kelshara. you're right some people did well under Saddam. those that supported him , ie Falujah (sp) did pretty well actually. that's why that has been such a difficult area for the US to deal with.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 8, 2004, 1:18 pm

One of the IPs is registered to an Army base in Arizona, the other to some company in Amsterdam.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 1:27 pm

Actually Iraq was one of the most non-religious countries in the middle east. So that part seems to have been better back then.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 1:28 pm

that would probably be Ft Huachuca, AZ? like i said, do an ip check but don't try anything funny please, uncle sam's not too keen on it.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » April 8, 2004, 1:41 pm

nobody wrote:i'm not arguing for Christians against Muslims. i'm arguing for freedom against oppression. by no means are christians shining examples for the world to live by. but why does what they did then warrent what is going on still? and why does what is going on now warrent our retaliation? because your father killed my father i should kill you?

about ingrateful: Definition: [n] a person who shows no gratitude

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \In"grate`\ (?; 277), a. [L. ingratus. See
{Ingrateful}.]
Ingrateful. [Obs. or Poetic] --Bacon.

\In"grate`\, n.
An ungrateful person. --Milton.

If your arguing for freedom over oppression then make sure you dont vote for Gearoge W In November

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 8, 2004, 1:41 pm

nobody wrote:that would probably be Ft Huachuca, AZ? like i said, do an ip check but don't try anything funny please, uncle sam's not too keen on it.

Risking your life everyday.. in AZ.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 1:51 pm

Siji wrote:
nobody wrote:that would probably be Ft Huachuca, AZ? like i said, do an ip check but don't try anything funny please, uncle sam's not too keen on it.
Risking your life everyday.. in AZ.

Siji with all due respect you have no clue on if this person has or will be in Iraq.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 1:56 pm

u think an ip addy is gonna show up as Afghanistan? ever thought about the possibility it gets routed maybe? i don't know a whole lot about computers i admit but cmon. again i don't care if you believe me.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » April 8, 2004, 1:56 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Siji wrote:Risking your life everyday.. in AZ.
Siji with all due respect you have no clue on if this person has or will be in Iraq.

See post #8 in this thread made today. He talks about "here" as if he's "there". My response was in response to the note of the two IP addresses for him having been AZ and Amsterdam and him saying AZ; neither of which are "there".

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 1:58 pm

You ever been to AZ? Its a baaaaadddd place.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 2:03 pm

lol ya i have been to arizona. i went to AIT there. i don't have very happy memories of that place, nothing to do with the army.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » April 8, 2004, 2:13 pm

The Stupid is strong in this thread.

Seriously. I'm sure you have some salient points, Mr. Body, but you lost me right about here:

nobody wrote:if you're talking about somebody being offended that we are happily killing fucking terrorist's over here then maybe.

You can call the Islamist insurgents many, many things, but I really don't think "terrorist" fits, much less when tossed around with the callous disdain that you seem to show. These aren't people (referring predominantly to the Sunni and Shi'a militants) setting off a random car bomb here or there, or blowing themselves up in shopping malls, or taking pot-shots at civilians in order to make a political point (not that any one of these things is necessarily the defining point of terrorism).

This is an insurgency, and - despite our current administration attempting to label it otherwise for PR purposes - that is a very different thing than terrorism. These are people openly taking up arms and taking to the streets, fighting military targets, and doing so in *relatively* large numbers. These are people who have been brought together because they see us as an unwelcome occupying force.

Now...I'm not saying I sympathize with them, though I will admit to a certain grim amount of schadenfreude as we watch all this unfold just the way the neocons said it wouldn't. From the U.S.'s standpoint, these insurgents are standing in the way of progress and peace, and that's one very valid viewpoint. Their viewpoint is another, and they're willing to fight for it. For our interests, this creates quite a bad situation that has to be dealt with in some way (most likely by force, unfortunately).

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 2:20 pm

i like your post and i agree with you. my personal disdain if for AQ and the TB. while i don't like what's going on in Iraq it's a lot harder to point finger's over there. the American revolution was an insurgency after all. the terrorists i speak of are AQ specifically. especially because they are so openly eager to get their hands on NBC's (Nuclear Biological Chemical weapons) and for targeting innocent people, for no other reason than they have a different viewpoint.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » April 8, 2004, 2:29 pm

All good on that front, then. No love here for AQ.

I am, however, sorely disappointed in our handling of Afghanistan since the conflict there - at least based on what I have seen reported. It appears that our administration was all too willing to abandon a decimated Afghanistan to its own devices, and march on to their longtime goal of Hussein. I feel like it would have been in our best interests to focus more on both the rebuilding and stabilization of Afghanistan and on the capture of OBL before getting ourselves embroiled in a war of questionable legality for questionable reasons. I think that probably would have kept morale up stateside and kept our global standing up, as well.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 8, 2004, 2:40 pm

really, i would love to have more resourses here than there but to be honest thing's are going better here than people think. don't get me wrong, people are still dying but at least most of them are terrorists.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 8, 2004, 3:27 pm

You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 3:34 pm

kyoukan wrote:You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.

And she knows because she is there.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 8, 2004, 4:20 pm

Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.
And she knows because she is there.

She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 8, 2004, 4:41 pm

Arundel Pajo wrote:All good on that front, then. No love here for AQ.

I am, however, sorely disappointed in our handling of Afghanistan since the conflict there - at least based on what I have seen reported. It appears that our administration was all too willing to abandon a decimated Afghanistan to its own devices, and march on to their longtime goal of Hussein. I feel like it would have been in our best interests to focus more on both the rebuilding and stabilization of Afghanistan and on the capture of OBL before getting ourselves embroiled in a war of questionable legality for questionable reasons. I think that probably would have kept morale up stateside and kept our global standing up, as well.

Very true.

"nobody" seems to suffer from the same brainwashing as many americans seem to suffer from. Iraq != AQ. It has reached a point now that even when they implicitly know this they still can't help but lump the two together.

I keep seeing Cart\brotha and the like refer to Iraq like it was some insane crazy hellhole. Iraq was in many ways very progressives and prior to GW1 it was very well off. Public health care, education and the general populace recieved more of the national wealth than other countries in the region.

I have no doubt that the toture chamber (and like) stories are true. Most of the cultures in the region have extremely harsh punishments for crimes (i.e. steal and lose a hand, drugs\alcohol will get you killed) that seem inhumane by western standards. They also have relatively low crime rates compared to western cultures. Also keep in mind that Iraq was formed by the UK, throwing together several factions (kurds\shia\sunni - and punishing the shia for their insurgency) fighting for power. The only way Iraq was kept together with the constant threat of a coup\rebellion was with an iron fist.

So I'll agree that if you opposed the regime Iraq was hell, but for the general populace it was one of the better places to live in the middle east (before UN sanctions crippled the economy). More so for the sunni's than shia but western cultures also have class\race disproportions.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 5:06 pm

Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.
And she knows because she is there.
She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.

Sure it is you believe everything you read dumb ass?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 5:13 pm

Cart only believes it if it is on Fox News!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 8, 2004, 5:38 pm

it's even been reported there actually...

i am going to go out on a limb and say Cart is being obstinate to troll

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 8, 2004, 6:12 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.
And she knows because she is there.
She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.
Sure it is you believe everything you read dumb ass?

I'm sure you are aware that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government has been begging the warlords for months to share the taxes they collect on illegal drugs and smuggling. I'm sure you are also aware that Ismael Khan collects more money in taxes from 1 province (Herat) than Karzai’s government collects nationally.

Bojangels · Post by **Bojangels** » April 8, 2004, 7:04 pm

Hey Sylvus, or anyone, can you do an IP check on me and see where it shows me as? Just curious. Also, I'm deployed and I spend plenty of time on message boards. There isn't jack shit to do, and since we're halfway across the world it's hard to call people on the phone. For me, the hardest part about being deployed is being away from friends / family / life(eq).

I noticed this is the 2nd time someone's had their chops busted for posting from the middle-east, but pretty much all we do over here in our off time is surf the net and play foosball.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 8, 2004, 7:25 pm

I don't really need to go as in depth checking your IPs as they all resolve to a friendly name.

Most of yours resolve to centcom.mil, [base omitted].af.mil, and there is an AOL proxy or two in there as well.

"nobody" has IPs that are harder to resolve, I plugged them into ARIN's whois to see who they were registered to.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 7:47 pm

Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:You twat, Afghanistan is a fucking hell hole. The western militaries there only have control of Kabul; the rest of the country is being run by warlords.
And she knows because she is there.
She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.
Sure it is you believe everything you read dumb ass?
I'm sure you are aware that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government has been begging the warlords for months to share the taxes they collect on illegal drugs and smuggling. I'm sure you are also aware that Ismael Khan collects more money in taxes from 1 province (Herat) than Karzai’s government collects nationally.

hmm we jumped from Iraq to Afghan but it matters not keep slamming our troops over there you worthless fuck, as far as im concern they contribute more in 5 min to humanity then you will in your lifetime.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » April 8, 2004, 8:06 pm

When did criticizing the actions of our (predominantly civilian) administration become tantamount to "slamming our troops?"

This has been a very handy straw man that the GOP has used to great effect. It's quite possible to respect and empathize with our troops, wish them all the best and a speedy return, and think they're doing their job more than admirably, and yet have nothing but contempt for the administration that frivolously and cavalierly put them in harm's way in Iraq.

This debate, regardless of which side you fall on, is about the administration and it's actions, positions, and decisions -- not about support for the troops themselves.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 8, 2004, 8:10 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote: And she knows because she is there.
She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.
Sure it is you believe everything you read dumb ass?
I'm sure you are aware that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government has been begging the warlords for months to share the taxes they collect on illegal drugs and smuggling. I'm sure you are also aware that Ismael Khan collects more money in taxes from 1 province (Herat) than Karzai’s government collects nationally.
hmm we jumped from Iraq to Afghan but it matters not keep slamming our troops over there you worthless fuck, as far as im concern they contribute more in 5 min to humanity then you will in your lifetime.

WTF you are an idiot. You responded to an initial post about Afghanistan. I responded to your post on Afghanistan. There was never any disussion in this little tit-for-tat that had any mention of Iraq.

And not once did I "keep slamming our troops". There was no mention of troops at all in any context. If there is any criticism implied at all it would be toward the US government policies in Afghanistan, basically leaving the job undone. And I didn't imply it, although I would agree with it.

I wish we could get more intelligent conservatives on this board.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 8, 2004, 8:30 pm

You need to realize that Bush and his lapdogs (read: Cartalas and co) use the "anti-American", "un-patriotic" and "slamming the troops" lines for anything they can't answer for that puts them in a bad light.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 8, 2004, 8:52 pm

Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Forthe wrote: She knows this because it is general knowledge you twat.
Sure it is you believe everything you read dumb ass?
I'm sure you are aware that the Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government has been begging the warlords for months to share the taxes they collect on illegal drugs and smuggling. I'm sure you are also aware that Ismael Khan collects more money in taxes from 1 province (Herat) than Karzai’s government collects nationally.
hmm we jumped from Iraq to Afghan but it matters not keep slamming our troops over there you worthless fuck, as far as im concern they contribute more in 5 min to humanity then you will in your lifetime.
WTF you are an idiot. You responded to an initial post about Afghanistan. I responded to your post on Afghanistan. There was never any disussion in this little tit-for-tat that had any mention of Iraq.

And not once did I "keep slamming our troops". There was no mention of troops at all in any context. If there is any criticism implied at all it would be toward the US government policies in Afghanistan, basically leaving the job undone. And I didn't imply it, although I would agree with it.

I wish we could get more intelligent conservatives on this board.

Whats This?

" keep seeing Cart\brotha and the like refer to Iraq like it was some insane crazy hellhole. Iraq was in many ways very progressives and prior to GW1 it was very well off. Public health care, education and the general populace recieved more of the national wealth than other countries in the region.

I have no doubt that the toture chamber (and like) stories are true. Most of the cultures in the region have extremely harsh punishments for crimes (i.e. steal and lose a hand, drugs\alcohol will get you killed) that seem inhumane by western standards. They also have relatively low crime rates compared to western cultures. Also keep in mind that Iraq was formed by the UK, throwing together several factions (kurds\shia\sunni - and punishing the shia for their insurgency) fighting for power. The only way Iraq was kept together with the constant threat of a coup\rebellion was with an iron fist.

So I'll agree that if you opposed the regime Iraq was hell, but for the general populace it was one of the better places to live in the middle east (before UN sanctions crippled the economy). More so for the sunni's than shia but western cultures also have class\race disproportions. "

I see the word Iraq all through your drivil.