XBOX Price Decrease

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 30, 2004, 2:03 am

As rumors went for the last week or two, Microsoft has lowered the price of the XBOX to $149.99 as of tomorrow (03-30-04). They are also lowering prices on some game titles as well.

I'd still get a PS2 over an XBOX anyday, but for those of you thinking of getting a second (or third) console system, here's a good opportunity.

Post by **Xouqoa** » March 30, 2004, 4:12 am

Xbox is much more useful imo, but that's just me. I was one of the suckers that paid $300 for it.

Hax0red xbox =

.

Kithyen · Post by **Kithyen** » March 30, 2004, 4:23 am

Out of the gamecube, PS2, and Xbox (I own all three) I have to say Xbox is my favorite. Part of that is probably due to the fact that I'm a DD 5.1 whore

Axien_Dellusions · Post by **Axien_Dellusions** » March 30, 2004, 10:16 am

PS2 should drop sometime in the next week...

Trek · Post by **Trek** » March 30, 2004, 1:32 pm

Axien_Dellusions wrote:PS2 should drop sometime in the next week...

I dropped mine long ago, I found it to be crap.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 30, 2004, 2:25 pm

The way I see it personally, there are more games available for the PS2. The PS2 comes with the ability to play DVDs out of the box where the XBOX requires a purchase of an add-on. (Not that many use their console for a DVD player, but some do) The online game play for PS2 is a one time adapter purchase of around $30. For the XBOX it's around $60 and then $40 (?) a year or $5-6 a month. The only bonuses for the XBOX that I can think of is that at times the graphics are better than PS2 and the DD 5.1 sound.

Perhaps I'm missing something? I wouldn't mind playing Halo, KoTOR and a few others.. but they alone don't justify the $150.

That and I hate Microsoft. But it's nice to know they're losing even more money on every XBOX sale now.

BTW: Anyone have any links for ways/how to mod the XBOX? I'm curious what can be done with it.

Edit: Just remembered, PS2 has DD 5.1 sound as well. I had forgotten that I bought the optical sound cable for it. Doh! As for HDTV the PS2 does 480 I know, not sure about 720.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 30, 2004, 2:44 pm

Siji wrote:
BTW: Anyone have any links for ways/how to mod the XBOX? I'm curious what can be done with it.

Each generation of X-Box requires a new chip and mods so be careful buying a brand new one and thinking any hack will work. I use a second computer as an HTPC hooked up to my entertainment system so I don't need most of the cool things X-Box hacks provide.

The PS2 is an easy hack. Buy a boot DVD and you're basically done although buying a new top for the PS2 makes life easier. I bought a Ps2 to play FF games which aren't availalbe on the X-Box. Champions of Norrath isn't available on X-Box either. As for Halo, it's a great multiplayer game but I play that on my PC, not an X-Box.

X-Box has games in 720P which look great on a HD projector or HDTV. That's a big plus for it although PS2 Games look nice using component cables hooked up to an HDTV as well and the PS2s releared over the past 4 months have progressive DVD players in them which also helps. Putting a large HD in an X-Box and running all of your games off of it is nice as well.

It looks like the PS3 and X-Box 2 are a long ways away so you'd better be happy with one of the two if you like consoles. If you're actually paying for your games I'd get a second opinion. I play those "49.00" games an average of 30 minutes for most of them before I lose interest. Sony and Microsoft need to invest in the hack companies. You'll always have users that want to hack. They should embrace the horror and make some money off it. This isn't a new concept.

Post by **Xouqoa** » March 30, 2004, 3:15 pm

Winnow wrote:
Siji wrote:
BTW: Anyone have any links for ways/how to mod the XBOX? I'm curious what can be done with it.
Each generation of X-Box requires a new chip and mods so be careful buying a brand new one and thinking any hack will work.

Not so: http://quikboard.com/xboxxx/index.html Not sure if this works on the more recent Xbox OS versions, but it works on the original 1.0 versions, which is what I have.

Post by **pyrella** » March 30, 2004, 5:57 pm

Wow, you guys are ignorant

Winnow:

Each generation of X-Box requires a new chip and mods so be careful buying a brand new one and thinking any hack will work.

Bullshit. You don't even need a modchip to hack your xbox. And when a new version comes out THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE (this has happened once, from 1.3 - 1.4/1.5), there is a new softmod available within days - Also, 9/10 xbox modchips are able to have the onboard bios flashed....making them compatible with new ones. Out of curiosity just how many versions of PS1 and PS2 modchips are there (again, because of hardware version changes)?

The PS2 is an easy hack. Buy a boot DVD and you're basically done although buying a new top for the PS2 makes life easier.

Boot DVD is a lot harder than a softmodded Xbox. PS2 modchip is 100x harder than an Xbox modchip. (On a sidenote - I'd like to know more about the boot DVD, and the new top replacement)

As for Halo, it's a great multiplayer game but I play that on my PC, not an X-Box.

How did it feel playing one of the best games ever......a year and a half after it was released? Gonna get to play Halo 2 on the pc right away? Hold your breath please!

X-Box has games in 720P which look great on a HD projector or HDTV.

Actually it goes up to 1080i

That's a big plus for it although PS2 Games look nice using component cables hooked up to an HDTV as well and the PS2s releared over the past 4 months have progressive DVD players in them which also helps.

And Xbox games still look better hooked up to composite or component. DVD's are moving still frames - the Dreamcast games still have better graphics than the PS2 in most cases.....and hasn't been manufactured in what...2 years now?

Siji

BTW: Anyone have any links for ways/how to mod the XBOX? I'm curious what can be done with it.

We have a modding forum. Look down a couple forums from this one.

The way I see it personally, there are more games available for the PS2.

Sheer raw numbers of games *for the system*....ok. Unique fun games...That's up to peoples personal discretion. And hey....the PS2 has backwards compatibility with the PS1....but so does the Xbox (yes the xbox can play playstation 1 games) - in addition to practically every console between the atari 2600 and the nintendo 64.

The PS2 comes with the ability to play DVDs out of the box where the XBOX requires a purchase of an add-on.

Actually, you can put a dongle free DVD player on the xbox. And when you buy the DVD dongle...you get a remote with it - a 25$ purchase for the PS2....and before you mention offbrand - for 12$ you can get the dongle and a remote if you don't mind offname brand.

The online game play for PS2 is a one time adapter purchase of around $30. For the XBOX it's around $60 and then $40 (?) a year or $5-6 a month.

Or use the *FREE* adapter that comes with the xbox, and use Xbconnect to play your lan games accross the internet, you don't even need a modded xbox to pull that off. Oh yeah, and listening to shoutcast (Streaming internet radio), in addition to being able to play your local movies/music/pictures on your home system is kind of nice to do too (free, again)

The only bonuses for the XBOX that I can think of is that at times the graphics are better than PS2 and the DD 5.1 sound.

heh, 'at times'

That and I hate Microsoft. But it's nice to know they're losing even more money on every XBOX sale now.

No special love for Microsoft here...but EVERY console manufacturer loses money on the console itself. They make money on their licensing. Also, since the Fabrication plants are already built, and the quantities of components is increased...the price decreases. In fact - I'm willing to bet they are losing less money selling it at 150, then they were when selling it at 300.

Dups. · Post by **Dups.** » March 30, 2004, 6:37 pm

Speaking of XBConnect. I just got this setup recently.

Would anyone be interested in playing a few games.... I mean other then Halo!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 30, 2004, 6:52 pm

pyrella wrote:
Bullshit. You don't even need a modchip to hack your xbox. And when a new version comes out THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE (this has happened once, from 1.3 - 1.4/1.5), there is a new softmod available within days - Also, 9/10 xbox modchips are able to have the onboard bios flashed....making them compatible with new ones. Out of curiosity just how many versions of PS1 and PS2 modchips are there (again, because of hardware version changes)?

The PS2 is an easy hack. Buy a boot DVD and you're basically done although buying a new top for the PS2 makes life easier.
Boot DVD is a lot harder than a softmodded Xbox. PS2 modchip is 100x harder than an Xbox modchip. (On a sidenote - I'd like to know more about the boot DVD, and the new top replacement)

How the hell is softmodding your X-Box using 007 or Mech games with AR2 memory hacks easier than buying a DVD putting it in, then putting in a copied game? It's hella easy. The fliptop alows you to save wear and tear from using a slide card to open the DVD tray.

I bought a 1.5 X-Box and believe me it wasn't easy and NONE of the softmod hacks worked for the week I had it. I tried the 007 and Mech game hacks. I've hacked all sorts of things and the X-Box wasnt easy because of a NEW version 1.5 being released...same as PS2s except that PS2 Swap Magic disks continued to work when V9 PS2s were released. The CD rips didnt but who cares about them.

How did it feel playing one of the best games ever......a year and a half after it was released? Gonna get to play Halo 2 on the pc right away? Hold your breath please!

It felt great! How does it feel not being able to play Final Fantasy games or Champions of Norrath AT ALL? : )

Actually it goes up to 1080i

720P and 1080i are both HDTV standards. It may go up to 1080 interlaced but you wont find a projector with a higher resolution than 1280X720P that's under 10K. I've been watching HDTV for 3 years in both 720p and 1080i and they both look awesome. It depends on the quality of the source material.

And Xbox games still look better hooked up to composite or component. DVD's are moving still frames - the Dreamcast games still have better graphics than the PS2 in most cases.....and hasn't been manufactured in what...2 years now?

That's a matter of opinion. I had both PS2 and X-Box hooked up to my HDTV via component cables and both looked great. I didn't notice any huge difference between a game like Prince of Persia that takes advantage of the new progressive DVD and 16:9 HDTV format and an X-Box game.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » March 30, 2004, 7:02 pm

It felt great! How does it feel not being able to play Final Fantasy games or Champions of Norrath AT ALL? : )

FF isnt really a strong arguement

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 30, 2004, 7:20 pm

Here's info on the flip top and swap magic disks Py:

http://www.ps2cover.com/v9ps2coverblackcombosm3.html

Here's a link to a review of my 1280X720P projector if you're in the market!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv_z2.htm

Post by **Xouqoa** » March 30, 2004, 8:30 pm

What's the advantage of a projector vs. a nice projection HDTV?

Is the image quality as good?

Post by **pyrella** » March 30, 2004, 9:04 pm

Whoops, thought I had hit submit

Winnow wrote:
pyrella wrote:
Bullshit. You don't even need a modchip to hack your xbox. And when a new version comes out THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE (this has happened once, from 1.3 - 1.4/1.5), there is a new softmod available within days - Also, 9/10 xbox modchips are able to have the onboard bios flashed....making them compatible with new ones. Out of curiosity just how many versions of PS1 and PS2 modchips are there (again, because of hardware version changes)?

The PS2 is an easy hack. Buy a boot DVD and you're basically done although buying a new top for the PS2 makes life easier.
Boot DVD is a lot harder than a softmodded Xbox. PS2 modchip is 100x harder than an Xbox modchip. (On a sidenote - I'd like to know more about the boot DVD, and the new top replacement)

How the hell is softmodding your X-Box using 007 or Mech games with AR2 memory hacks easier than buying a DVD putting it in, then putting in a copied game? It's hella easy. The fliptop alows you to save wear and tear from using a slide card to open the DVD tray.

Umm...by only having to do it once?

I bought a 1.5 X-Box and believe me it wasn't easy and NONE of the softmod hacks worked for the week I had it. I tried the 007 and Mech game hacks. I've hacked all sorts of things and the X-Box wasnt easy because of a NEW version 1.5 being released...same as PS2s except that PS2 Swap Magic disks continued to work when V9 PS2s were released. The CD rips didnt but who cares about them.

Should have worked your social resources - My, uh, friend would have hooked you up with the correct files to copy over to keep the box modded. (The original save game exploit still works from v1.0 though, so the hack is still valid)

How did it feel playing one of the best games ever......a year and a half after it was released? Gonna get to play Halo 2 on the pc right away? Hold your breath please!

It felt great! How does it feel not being able to play Final Fantasy games or Champions of Norrath AT ALL? : )

Heh, after FF8, never a FF game again - after EQ, never an EQ game again (BG, D&DH were pretty cool tho) - I admit both of our's are subject to opinion.

And Xbox games still look better hooked up to composite or component. DVD's are moving still frames - the Dreamcast games still have better graphics than the PS2 in most cases.....and hasn't been manufactured in what...2 years now?

That's a matter of opinion. I had both PS2 and X-Box hooked up to my HDTV via component cables and both looked great. I didn't notice any huge difference between a game like Prince of Persia that takes advantage of the new progressive DVD and 16:9 HDTV format and an X-Box game.

It may not have been huge, but I bet the xbox still came out on top =P

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 30, 2004, 9:26 pm

Xouqoa wrote:What's the advantage of a projector vs. a nice projection HDTV?

Is the image quality as good?

Image quality is better on a good projector over a rear screen projection TV. The one I have for example has 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280X720P. The picture is jaw dropping with a high definition source and looks outstanding with progressive DVDs as well. Standard sources like DirecTV non HD are very watchable as well and EQ looks amazing on a 1280X720 10 foot screen.

The new projectors like the one linked only require 10 feet to throw a 110" picture so you don't need a big room anymore and you can always throw a smaller picture with the projector closer to the screen.

The lens shift allows you to place the projector anywhere within a screen length of the actual screen and shift the image without distortion to match where you actually want to project the image.

I have my HD DirecTV receiver attached to the component input and my HTPC attached to the DVI input. I have the projector setup as a second monitor using an ATI radeon card (any good card is capable of this with two monitor outs). I play DVDs from my computer or browse the net on my projector screen and can just hit a button to switch to DirecTV and HBO-HD etc.

The drawbacks of a projector are:

-needing somewhat controlled light (screen will wash out if the room is too bright or has direct sunlight etc)

-you need a room where you can sit back 10 feet from the screen. a 110" picture is huge. If you're closer than 10 feet you will start to see SDE (screen door effect) although the picture is still impressive right up until you're face to face with the screen. If you need to sit closer, you can reduce the image if you want to. The projector has a zoom so there's some control of the picture size depending on the distance of the projector to the screen.

A smooth wall painted Ultra Pure White Flat works well as a screen if you don't want to spring for a screen.

Post by **Xouqoa** » March 30, 2004, 9:30 pm

hmm, it sounds like it would be more convenient for sure... especially since you don't have to worry about moving around a delicate piece of equipment like a 55"+ tv.

Do home theatre stores usually have them set up for demonstration purposes? I think I'd like to see one with my own eyes before I decided to ever get one. (I'm thinking about getting a nice tv soon since I just got some extra money, so this might be a good alternative)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 30, 2004, 11:20 pm

The drawbacks of a projector are:

Out of curiosity how much do replacement bulbs cost?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 30, 2004, 11:40 pm

Xouqoa wrote:hmm, it sounds like it would be more convenient for sure... especially since you don't have to worry about moving around a delicate piece of equipment like a 55"+ tv.

Do home theatre stores usually have them set up for demonstration purposes? I think I'd like to see one with my own eyes before I decided to ever get one. (I'm thinking about getting a nice tv soon since I just got some extra money, so this might be a good alternative)

Unfortunately not many places have projectors demo'd and the ones you do find are setup poorly. People at places like Best Buy don't have a clue about projectors. I had to buy mine without having ever seen it IRL. The good news is it's only 1,850.00 if you buy it via the internet like I did:

http://www.visualapex.com/lcdprojectors ... &MFR=Sanyo

I'm not bashful about buying via the net though. I even bought my rear screen projection TV through the internet and it arrived in good shape.

The major thing you must consider is lighting. If you have a brightly lit room with no way to control the lighting I'd go with something else, otherwise it's the projector hands down over anything else for price/performance. Also, don't cheese and get anything less than the Z2. the 1K projectors have various issues ranging from resolution to rainbow effects. There's also really nothing substantially better than the Z2 unless you spend around 5-6K. The Sony H20 is really the only other option near the price range (about 500.00 more) with the same picture quality although it doesn't have lens shift so isnt as flexible.

As you mentioned, instead of lugging around a 100+pound TV, you pick up a 9 pound projector when you need to move.

One thing to consider is bulbs. Lifespan of the bulb is about 2000 hours which gives you a year if you use it 6 hours every day for example. Bulbs run 285.00 so that's something to consider. Also a screen. A wall is fine. That's what I use right now. It's gotta be a flat surface and you'll want to paint the viewing area ultra pure white flat (home depot #1050) $19.00 a gallon. Temporarily you could project it in on an off white wall with flattened stucco but you really don't want that as a permanent solution.

You'd shit your pants if you actually saw this in action. Shame you don't live in AZ!

Source material is something you need to consider. You really want to have High Definition material to take advantage of the resolution this projector has. If you decided to hook up your computer to it, you'd also want your computer to be within 10 feet if possible for a DVI connection. I watched a few NCAA basketball tournament games in High Definition on the big screen and it's a whole new experience. I'm looking forward to Football season.

If you're considering something in the 2K range or highter, this is an option well worth researching. Don't rush into anything.

Edit: another thing projectors don't get is burn in. I actually got burn in playing PS2 game and and watching too many standard definition shows with the black bars on the side so on my rear screen HDTV 16:9 TV I see a line where the bars normally are for standard 4:3 pictures when watching full screen pictures. Sucks! a Projector (LCD) won't burn in even with extended use. Plasmas can burn in as well.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 31, 2004, 2:00 pm

pyrella wrote:Wow, you guys are ignorant

Pot meet kettle.

The PS2 is an easy hack. Buy a boot DVD and you're basically done although buying a new top for the PS2 makes life easier.
Boot DVD is a lot harder than a softmodded Xbox.

Yeah, it's so much harder to under 8 screws, put a new case on, then boot up with a disc in the drive, then open the top of the case and replace the disc to begin play... as compared to buying/renting a game, changing settings, connecting it to a LAN at home (assuming the console and PC are in the same room or that you have a really long cable), FTP'ing games over, etc..

The way I see it personally, there are more games available for the PS2.
Sheer raw numbers of games *for the system*....ok. Unique fun games...That's up to peoples personal discretion.

More games currently available. More games released on a regular basis. Higher chance of something you're going to like being released. I can count maybe 5 games I'd buy if I got an XBOX that aren't available on the PS2. That's not worth $150 that could buy me 3 other games, or numerous rentals and blank DVDs.

The only bonuses for the XBOX that I can think of is that at times the graphics are better than PS2 and the DD 5.1 sound.
heh, 'at times'

Yes, at times. The XBOX has a higher graphic ability, there's no doubt. But whether the developers push that is another story. And whether the difference is noticable, is another story.

That and I hate Microsoft. But it's nice to know they're losing even more money on every XBOX sale now.
No special love for Microsoft here...but EVERY console manufacturer loses money on the console itself.

My point was that they're losing more now than they were a few days ago.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 3:18 pm

did you actually read the full sentences of what you only partially quoted?

A one time hack > then swapping discs every fucking time you want to play a game. Hey ma, no screws. If you do go the hardware route, it's only *6* screws, and again, never have to worry about it again - not even soldering....just a pogo clip. (Easier)
As far as the Lan stuff goes - that's for the extra features (Which you don't even get with a PS2). Nice thing is the average user CAN rent the game and rip it themselves, in addition to downloading your iso's (which is all you can do with the PS2)

More games currently available. More games released on a regular basis. Higher chance of something you're going to like being released. I can count maybe 5 games I'd buy if I got an XBOX that aren't available on the PS2. That's not worth $150 that could buy me 3 other games, or numerous rentals and blank DVDs.

See that part at the end where I said personal discretion? I could say the same thing as you, just reversing the consoles. *Personally* the only game series I liked from PS is Crash Bandicoot - and hey, that's on Xbox too!

The rest is nitpicking~

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 31, 2004, 3:50 pm

So is Yantis buying yer haXX0red Xbox too?

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 4:37 pm

At the new low price.....132 of them!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 31, 2004, 4:48 pm

pyrella wrote:Nice thing is the average user CAN rent the game and rip it themselves, in addition to downloading your iso's (which is all you can do with the PS2)

Of the 50+ 'backups' that I have, I've never downloaded an ISO for PlayStation 2. Ever. Flip-top cases don't play ISO's. Here's a quarter.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 4:53 pm

Siji wrote:
pyrella wrote:Nice thing is the average user CAN rent the game and rip it themselves, in addition to downloading your iso's (which is all you can do with the PS2)
Of the 50+ 'backups' that I have, I've never downloaded an ISO for PlayStation 2. Ever. Flip-top cases don't play ISO's. Here's a quarter.

You don't rent, and you don't download? You magically pull them out of your ass? Wait wait wait....you code the game yourself!

Oh wait...are you gonna get me on the fact that they aren't DOT .ISO and instead are .nrg, or bin/cue, or some other image format?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 5:35 pm

People brand new to consoles that want to hack will be buying brand new boxes which most likely may have problems with the current hacks. PS2 is easier in that respect as the Swap DVDs have worked through the past few box version upgrades.

I really don't see the problem with swapping DVDs. It's like 15 seconds for the swap disk to boot and im usually doing something else during that time anyway like getting a drink, switching inputs for my display and changing the input on my receiver for sound.

I've got a stack of 25 or so of the best games released over the past few months and don't play any of them. A cheap swap hack and 1.00 DVD-R works well for the entertainment value the console provides for me. Buying and returning 007 and mech warrior games, buying and returning AR memory thingy for 39.00 doesn't seem convenient to me.

A boot menu with all of the games saved to a large hard drive would be nice but not a big deal for my needs. If you want to use your X-Box as an mp3 jukebox or maybe play videos on your TV then the X-Box would be the better choice if you get lucky and there's a hack out for the latest version. If you've had your box awhile, you're in good shape.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 31, 2004, 5:42 pm

pyrella wrote:
Siji wrote:
pyrella wrote:Nice thing is the average user CAN rent the game and rip it themselves, in addition to downloading your iso's (which is all you can do with the PS2)
Of the 50+ 'backups' that I have, I've never downloaded an ISO for PlayStation 2. Ever. Flip-top cases don't play ISO's. Here's a quarter.
You don't rent, and you don't download? You magically pull them out of your ass? Wait wait wait....you code the game yourself!
Oh wait...are you gonna get me on the fact that they aren't DOT .ISO and instead are .nrg, or bin/cue, or some other image format?

You're rather aggressive today. Perhaps your board joke is causing you more distress than you figured on.

Either way, try reading comprehension. I never said I didn't rent. What does "downloading your iso's" have to do with renting? I said I've never downloaded an ISO (Or any other form of image) for the PS2, ever - which you claimed is the only thing I could do for my PS2.

If you can burn/play ISO's that you download w/o a mod chip on a flip-top case, I wouldn't know. I've never bothered to try.

GameFly and the like are your friends.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 5:58 pm

Winnow wrote:People brand new to consoles that want to hack will be buying brand new boxes which most likely may have problems with the current hacks. PS2 is easier in that respect as the Swap DVDs have worked through the past few box version upgrades.

Again, the very first original 007 Hack still works on the newest 1.5 Xbox's - it's a matter of ignorance being the stumbling block (Both for the PS2 and the XBOX - perfect example is I knew shit about the flip top mod for the PS2, you had mentioned the swap magic disk before) - if you know what to do it's easy once you have the information. The xbox hack takes less than 5 mins to do. No opening, no swapping, nothing. Spend 3 minutes, and THAT'S it....how is the PS2 way easier?

I really don't see the problem with swapping DVDs. It's like 15 seconds for the swap disk to boot and im usually doing something else during that time anyway like getting a drink, switching inputs for my display and changing the input on my receiver for sound.
I've got a stack of 25 or so of the best games released over the past few months and don't play any of them. A cheap swap hack and 1.00 DVD-R works well for the entertainment value the console provides for me. Buying and returning 007 and mech warrior games, buying and returning AR memory thingy for 39.00 doesn't seem convenient to me.

Your 25 games @ 15 seconds apiece = 6.25 minutes - it took me less time to hack the box...easier to do, less time spent, short term and long term. How much is the swap disk? How much is the flip top? I have a feeling you think you have to do the 007 Hack everytime you want to play a Backup, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. If I'm not, once again I reiterate - you hack it once, and you're done. You get your backup, put it in, turn on the box, and play.

A boot menu with all of the games saved to a large hard drive would be nice but not a big deal for my needs. If you want to use your X-Box as an mp3 jukebox or maybe play videos on your TV then the X-Box would be the better choice if you get lucky and there's a hack out for the latest version. If you've had your box awhile, you're in good shape.

All I'm saying is, for the same price per console and materials needed - you can do a lot more, and this is much better for the 'hacker' consumer as a result. If all you want to do is play PS2 games, I could prove the Xbox gives blow jobs, and it's not going to sway you.

On another note, perhaps you should pick up an Xbox at the great new low price, and like I said before, work your social networks and I'm sure you could get something working for you. If you're real worried about it, buy used, your gonna hack and void your warranty anyways - and you'll get an older version if you're real worried about it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 6:03 pm

pyrella wrote:The xbox hack takes less than 5 mins to do. No opening, no swapping, nothing. Spend 3 minutes, and THAT'S it....how is the PS2 way easier?

5 minutes? Are you telling me you don't need to buy the AR memory card thing anymore then either eat the 39.00 or return it?

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 6:04 pm

Siji wrote:
pyrella wrote:
Siji wrote:
pyrella wrote:Nice thing is the average user CAN rent the game and rip it themselves, in addition to downloading your iso's (which is all you can do with the PS2)
Of the 50+ 'backups' that I have, I've never downloaded an ISO for PlayStation 2. Ever. Flip-top cases don't play ISO's. Here's a quarter.
You don't rent, and you don't download? You magically pull them out of your ass? Wait wait wait....you code the game yourself!
Oh wait...are you gonna get me on the fact that they aren't DOT .ISO and instead are .nrg, or bin/cue, or some other image format?
You're rather aggressive today. Perhaps your board joke is causing you more distress than you figured on.
You know me and my levels of aggresivness? My board joke? Best yet...distressed? How little you know - the ignorance still stands out.

Either way, try reading comprehension. I never said I didn't rent. What does "downloading your iso's" have to do with renting? I said I've never downloaded an ISO (Or any other form of image) for the PS2, ever - which you claimed is the only thing I could do for my PS2.

If you can burn/play ISO's that you download w/o a mod chip on a flip-top case, I wouldn't know. I've never bothered to try.

GameFly and the like are your friends.

So umm, when you are 'backing up' your rented games - how exactly does it get from original to DVD-R? No temporary file in between? If there is one, is it similar to say, the exact same thing you could download?

Seriuus questions, I want to know - I'll admit to being ignorant myself as I don't *own* a PS2, and don't actually have hands on - but I can choose to dislike your ignorance about a subject I have first hand experience in - just as much as you do mine.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 6:07 pm

Winnow wrote:
pyrella wrote:The xbox hack takes less than 5 mins to do. No opening, no swapping, nothing. Spend 3 minutes, and THAT'S it....how is the PS2 way easier?
5 minutes? Are you telling me you don't need to buy the AR memory card thing anymore then either eat the 39.00 or return it?

Are you telling me you don't need to buy the DVD swap disc and flip top cover?

Are we comparing actual time involved in 'modding' your console when you have the parts - or are we including driving time to the store/waiting for an internet order?

If you have the AR card, and 007, it will take me 3 minutes to hack the Xbox. If you have the Swap Disc and the Flip cover - how long will it take you to install the cover, THEN put in the swap disc, THEN put in your game?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 31, 2004, 6:07 pm

I bet Winnow is so leet, he burns his DVDs with lasers from his eyes.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 6:09 pm

pyrella wrote:
If you have the AR card, and 007, it will take me 3 minutes to hack the Xbox. If you have the Swap Disc and the Flip cover - how long will it take you to install the cover, THEN put in the swap disc, THEN put in your game?

2 minutes!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 6:10 pm

masteen wrote:I bet Winnow is so leet, he burns his DVDs with lasers from his eyes.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 6:15 pm

Winnow wrote:
pyrella wrote:
If you have the AR card, and 007, it will take me 3 minutes to hack the Xbox. If you have the Swap Disc and the Flip cover - how long will it take you to install the cover, THEN put in the swap disc, THEN put in your game?
2 minutes!

Damn power screwdrivers....it's on my christmas wishlist.

Also

5 minutes? Are you telling me you don't need to buy the AR memory card thing anymore then either eat the 39.00 or return it?

Again - actually I helped someone very special to everyone here build a ghetto AR for about 6 bucks in parts in addition to a 12 dollar memory card they already had(oh yeah, you PS2 people know all about memory cards don't you?

).

How much you spent in memory cards?
How much is the Swap Disc?
How much is the Flip top cover?
How much does it cost to replace the Swap Disc when it gets scratched up constantly using the archaic 'manually scratch and slide accross the spindle' drive format?

So again, are we comparing cost, ease, or time?

Btw, both Winnow and Siji - please go to the Modding forum, you guys do have some good info to share on the PS2 stuff - and I'm sure you could get non-aggro help on doing an Xbox (if you were to stoop so low, etc)

Post by **Sylvus** » March 31, 2004, 6:25 pm

I bought a PS2 for $500 on ebay back when I couldn't get one when they first came out. I got an Xbox for Christmas 2002. I haven't turned on my PS2 in over a year.

The End.

Dups. · Post by **Dups.** » March 31, 2004, 6:34 pm

Sylvus wrote:I bought a PS2 for $500 on ebay back when I couldn't get one when they first came out. I got an Xbox for Christmas 2002. I haven't turned on my PS2 in over a year.

The End.

woaah!!! You are missing a lot of information in that story!! What other gifts did you get for Christmas 2002?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 31, 2004, 6:36 pm

OK, so forgive this n00bish question, but after the initial hack, how do you play regular Xbox games? Just pop it in and boot it up? What about after installing Linux? Will it still play them then?

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 6:41 pm

masteen wrote:OK, so forgive this n00bish question, but after the initial hack, how do you play regular Xbox games? Just pop it in and boot it up? What about after installing Linux? Will it still play them then?

First boot device is the DVD-Rom - Can play your normal Xbox games with the caveat below*

*After talking with some friends at work, this was pointed out against me -

If you hack the original xbox drive, you can no longer play Live games, with the PS2 it shouldn't matter whether you're playing backups or not when you go online.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 6:42 pm

If I pick up an X-Box again I will!

I spent an entire weekend with 007, mech and AR in hand trying to hack a brand new 1.5 Box which I unfortunately got right when they were released. I was all over the X-Box hack sites and everyone else was having the exact same problems I was so I can verify that if you happen to be unlucky and pick up a new version of the X-Box or PS2s (if you use chip mods) you're screwed for awhile at least.

I had help as my friend has an X-Box with 160gb drive in it with all the mods. He later bought a modchip for it to make things even easier after initial installation. If I went X-Box again, I'd probably go the mod chip route.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 31, 2004, 6:51 pm

So is there a boot ROM that controls that or what? My main question is with regards to Xboxen with Linux loaded. I've read the walkthru you posted earlier, but I'm still unclear on a couple areas.

When we install Linux, do you partition a separate area of the drive from what the games use for saves and such?

EDIT: I understand the Live stuff not working, and that doesn't really bother me, as all my friends own PS2s.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 31, 2004, 6:59 pm

I don't really know what is going on as much as py does, but there isn't a lot you have to do. Basically it boots up to DVD if you have one in the drive, else it boots up to a special menu that you can navigate with the controller.

I don't ever keep any DVD in the drive, as i just download all my games. I put an 80Gb HD in there, and I have like 20 games on the hard drive now.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 31, 2004, 7:16 pm

I modded my xbox with a chip. It wasn't hard to put in. It just screws onto the motherboard and a little gold wire goes into a little hole on the circuit board that overrides the original BIOS and diverts it to the one on the chip. I saw the no mod chip hack with the saved games but that looked annoying.

Looking at installing a mod chip on my PS2 makes my teeth hurt. I'd rather just buy all the games I want. Does the flip top and boot disc mod work 100%?

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 7:24 pm

According to winnows link to the swap disc - there are some limitations, but I'm willing to bet it's a small percentage that it effects - and if you do download, they probably have been ripped properly to compensate for the limitations of the swap disc.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 7:29 pm

kyoukan wrote:I modded my xbox with a chip. It wasn't hard to put in. It just screws onto the motherboard and a little gold wire goes into a little hole on the circuit board that overrides the original BIOS and diverts it to the one on the chip. I saw the no mod chip hack with the saved games but that looked annoying.

Looking at installing a mod chip on my PS2 makes my teeth hurt. I'd rather just buy all the games I want. Does the flip top and boot disc mod work 100%?

FlipTop/Swap DVD works 100% with DVD backups. There are some issues with CD Rips but I don't use those, I just grab the DVD Images off newsgroups.

There are a handful of games, like Chamions of Norrath that you need to backup to two DVDs as DVD9 doublesided DVD format is used. If you use newsgroups to get your images then it's no problem as the ripped to DVD versions are out within a day of release. Xenosaga is another game like this. I have both. Xenosage was ripped to a single DVD with reduced mpeg quality on the long cut scenes and Champions was left intact ripped to two DVDs.

95% of the PS2 games are straight copies and every PS2 games will work with a 2nd swap.

Afterdawn Forums are an excellent resource for PS2, X-Box and all DVD recording info:

http://forums.afterdawn.com/

edit: this is actually a better forum for hack info but you need to register to see the forums. Use your favorite non primary email address although I haven't received spam from them.

http://www.ps2ownz.com/forums/index.php

MooZilla · Post by **MooZilla** » March 31, 2004, 7:31 pm

Winnow wrote:
Xouqoa wrote:hmm, it sounds like it would be more convenient for sure... especially since you don't have to worry about moving around a delicate piece of equipment like a 55"+ tv.

Do home theatre stores usually have them set up for demonstration purposes? I think I'd like to see one with my own eyes before I decided to ever get one. (I'm thinking about getting a nice tv soon since I just got some extra money, so this might be a good alternative)
Unfortunately not many places have projectors demo'd and the ones you do find are setup poorly. People at places like Best Buy don't have a clue about projectors. I had to buy mine without having ever seen it IRL. The good news is it's only 1,850.00 if you buy it via the internet like I did:

http://www.visualapex.com/lcdprojectors ... &MFR=Sanyo

I'm not bashful about buying via the net though. I even bought my rear screen projection TV through the internet and it arrived in good shape.

The major thing you must consider is lighting. If you have a brightly lit room with no way to control the lighting I'd go with something else, otherwise it's the projector hands down over anything else for price/performance. Also, don't cheese and get anything less than the Z2. the 1K projectors have various issues ranging from resolution to rainbow effects. There's also really nothing substantially better than the Z2 unless you spend around 5-6K. The Sony H20 is really the only other option near the price range (about 500.00 more) with the same picture quality although it doesn't have lens shift so isnt as flexible.

As you mentioned, instead of lugging around a 100+pound TV, you pick up a 9 pound projector when you need to move.

One thing to consider is bulbs. Lifespan of the bulb is about 2000 hours which gives you a year if you use it 6 hours every day for example. Bulbs run 285.00 so that's something to consider. Also a screen. A wall is fine. That's what I use right now. It's gotta be a flat surface and you'll want to paint the viewing area ultra pure white flat (home depot #1050) $19.00 a gallon. Temporarily you could project it in on an off white wall with flattened stucco but you really don't want that as a permanent solution.

You'd shit your pants if you actually saw this in action. Shame you don't live in AZ!

Source material is something you need to consider. You really want to have High Definition material to take advantage of the resolution this projector has. If you decided to hook up your computer to it, you'd also want your computer to be within 10 feet if possible for a DVI connection. I watched a few NCAA basketball tournament games in High Definition on the big screen and it's a whole new experience. I'm looking forward to Football season.

If you're considering something in the 2K range or highter, this is an option well worth researching. Don't rush into anything.

Edit: another thing projectors don't get is burn in. I actually got burn in playing PS2 game and and watching too many standard definition shows with the black bars on the side so on my rear screen HDTV 16:9 TV I see a line where the bars normally are for standard 4:3 pictures when watching full screen pictures. Sucks! a Projector (LCD) won't burn in even with extended use. Plasmas can burn in as well.

They really sound great. Now i just have to find a way to get myself $2000...Hmm. I think i'll have to make my parents bump my allowence up again

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 7:34 pm

Winnow...

2 mins to do this?

http://www.ps2cover.com/coverinstallation.jpg - might need to c/p the link, or work is being gay and blocking it!

I smell bullshit!

Also - when you bought the new box, and had those problems - they were taken care of in days. Remember when I said this:

And when a new version comes out THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE (this has happened once, from 1.3 - 1.4/1.5), there is a new softmod available within days

And the only thing significantly different was the fact that they started using a Focus display adapter instead of whatever it was they were doing before.....and again - the 007 hack DID still work, but the bios loader to play burned games took a few days to get updated.

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 7:36 pm

btw, all this is to get people motivated to buy an Xbox and get more than their money's worth, even out of legit things.

I know I'm tempted to buy a PS2 now for uh...testing my homebrew games!

Post by **pyrella** » March 31, 2004, 7:37 pm

And to bump my post count

Masteen....log on to aim or yahoo

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 31, 2004, 7:43 pm

pyrella wrote: And the only thing significantly different was the fact that they started using a Focus display adapter instead of whatever it was they were doing before.....and again - the 007 hack DID still work, but the bios loader to play burned games took a few days to get updated.

Yep, the weekend I bought and tried to mod my X-Box was the few days a hack wasn't available. It was the Focus display adapter issue.

....2 minutes! 1:50 if I've just downed a mountain dew!

The conclusion I've come to is that for PS2s, the swap disk is easiest and there's not much to gain from a chipmod. For X-Box, a chipmod is the best and painfree.

BTW, I purchased my fliptop from here if you want a place I can confirm delivered and fast:

http://www.ps2fliptop.net/main

Crappy website but they were fast and reliable. They have good installation instructions on their site as well.

Here's how it works:

http://kocaccess.gswf.org/3.html

You'd most likely need the $33.95 Fliptop/SwapDVD3.2 combo.