Can the administration be this naive?...Or think we are?

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 17, 2004, 5:43 pm

Brotha wrote:What? I wanted to know something substantial and I was pre-empting the automatic response of Ashcroft/Patriot Act.

If someone wants to respond with the name of a bill that was passed overwhelmingly by the house and senate, has had an amount of exaggeration and propoganda directed at it that makes any of the conspiracy theories surrounding Halliburton pale in comparison, that hasn't had a single part of it found to be unconstitutional, then they can go for it but this doesn't exactly qualify as a "smoking gun" to me.

But fine, what part of the Patriot Act equates to Bush trampling on the Bill of Rights and Constitution?

Well, its not past yet but gay marrage is a biggie

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 17, 2004, 5:47 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Brotha wrote:So wasn't Lincoln freeing the slaves a violation of the states rights clause? Is the national government setting any laws that supercede state laws a violation of the constitution?
Wasn't Lincoln a Republican? hmmmmm

Isnt every member of the modern KKK a republican? hmmm

and you dare compare a great man such as lincoln EXPANDING a minoritys FREEDOMS to one of the worst presedents of all time LIMITING a minoritys FREEDOMS

fuck if hitler ran under a republican label you assholes would vote for him (im not even being somewhat sarcastic, you would), you godamn closed minded conservatives dont look a canidate for who he is

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 17, 2004, 6:05 pm

Xzion wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Brotha wrote:So wasn't Lincoln freeing the slaves a violation of the states rights clause? Is the national government setting any laws that supercede state laws a violation of the constitution?
Wasn't Lincoln a Republican? hmmmmm
Isnt every member of the modern KKK a republican? hmmm

and you dare compare a great man such as lincoln EXPANDING a minoritys FREEDOMS to one of the worst presedents of all time LIMITING a minoritys FREEDOMS

fuck if hitler ran under a republican label you assholes would vote for him (im not even being somewhat sarcastic, you would), you godamn closed minded conservatives dont look a canidate for who he is

Wow! You liberals love to throw the Hitler word around a lot. Really makes you look close-minded.

Hitler, while admirable in his perseverance and conviction, is responsible for 100's of thousands of lives lost. He was an evil dictator. Kinda like Saddam. But, for some reason the Hitler of our generation will be martyr's by the very people who took out the real Hitler. Very depressing.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 17, 2004, 6:49 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Judges marrying gay couples.

That's a district judge, you fucking bumpkin.

The judge who ruled the 10 commandments had to be removed from the courthouse.

That judge was upholding the constitution 100%. Way to dig an example out of your ass that is a complete contradiction to your original assertation.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 17, 2004, 7:00 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Judges marrying gay couples.
That's a district judge, you fucking bumpkin.

The judge who ruled the 10 commandments had to be removed from the courthouse.
That judge was upholding the constitution 100%. Way to dig an example out of your ass that is a complete contradiction to your original assertation.

/shrug

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 17, 2004, 7:51 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xzion wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Brotha wrote:So wasn't Lincoln freeing the slaves a violation of the states rights clause? Is the national government setting any laws that supercede state laws a violation of the constitution?
Wasn't Lincoln a Republican? hmmmmm
Isnt every member of the modern KKK a republican? hmmm

and you dare compare a great man such as lincoln EXPANDING a minoritys FREEDOMS to one of the worst presedents of all time LIMITING a minoritys FREEDOMS

fuck if hitler ran under a republican label you assholes would vote for him (im not even being somewhat sarcastic, you would), you godamn closed minded conservatives dont look a canidate for who he is
Wow! You liberals love to throw the Hitler word around a lot. Really makes you look close-minded.

Hitler, while admirable in his perseverance and conviction, is responsible for 100's of thousands of lives lost. He was an evil dictator. Kinda like Saddam. But, for some reason the Hitler of our generation will be martyr's by the very people who took out the real Hitler. Very depressing.

Well hitler is probrably one of the furthest right wing-conservatives of all time, you guys are really into that.
Bush is already responsible for over 500 lives, if hes in office for 4 more years im sure hel find a way to catch up

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 17, 2004, 8:23 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
kyoukan wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Judges marrying gay couples.
That's a district judge, you fucking bumpkin.

The judge who ruled the 10 commandments had to be removed from the courthouse.
That judge was upholding the constitution 100%. Way to dig an example out of your ass that is a complete contradiction to your original assertation.
/shrug

Man I admire your style of argumentation, it is even more braindead than the one used by your glorious leader.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 17, 2004, 9:27 pm

Kelshara wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
kyoukan wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Judges marrying gay couples.
That's a district judge, you fucking bumpkin.

The judge who ruled the 10 commandments had to be removed from the courthouse.
That judge was upholding the constitution 100%. Way to dig an example out of your ass that is a complete contradiction to your original assertation.
/shrug
Man I admire your style of argumentation, it is even more braindead than the one used by your glorious leader.

She asked me for examples of activist judges. I gave the two I could think off the top of my head. She doesn't like. What the fuck am I to do? She exhausts me with intellect. I am no match. She is obviously right. I hope the world comes around to her way of thinking and we all live in peace and harmony togther in the liberal socialist utopia.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » March 17, 2004, 9:56 pm

Midnyte wrote:Or maybe it was a smart way to take advantage of the fear of the American citizens to put the power back in the hands of the police, where it belongs. Not in the hands of the lawyers, judges, and criminals.

You're saying that the executive, judging power of the legal system should be in the hands of the police rather than the courts?

Are you fucking insane?

No, no need to answer that question, it was rhetorical.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » March 17, 2004, 10:51 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wasn't Lincoln a Republican? hmmmmm

Oh for god's sake, go retake high school US history and come back when you have a basic understanding of the history of political parties in the US.

I honestly cannot comprehend why you think you have any business posting about US politics. You think that it's okay to 'make exceptions' to the Constitution. You think that only Democrats appoint judges that will uphold their agenda. You don't seem to understand that, in a debate about constitutional law, your opinions and morals matter only so long as they are relevant within the parameters that have been set in the past by those who make constitutional law (example: your moral opinion on gay marriage is irrelevant in a discussion about a constitutional amendment on gay marriage. The only relevant subject in such a debate is whether or not banning gay marriage constitutes discrimination, and, if so, if discrimination on those grounds is a violation of the constitutional rights of US citizens. But hey, I can see why you wouldn't get this concept, since not even President Bush seems to understand it).

What is the point of debating about the US government when you don't understand the fundamental principles behind said government?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 17, 2004, 11:21 pm

In the real world, mearly understanding it doesn't quite cut it.

I see how bending the rules can help and can hurt.

If bending the rules helps get a piece of shit out of society, so be it. I hate scum. I hate criminals.

I also realize the necessity for these rights and how terrible things could be if we didn't have them. I just don't mind this little break from them. I want the scum who are living in the US, found and stopped. I don't care how they do it. I don't wish to see more Americans die. It sickens me everytime I think about how people can just hate a group of people so badly they want to murder as many as they can. It boggles my mind.

Trash me, label me, pick apart everything I say till you can discredit and humiliate me, but my intentions are pure....my eyes are open...I sleep well at night.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » March 17, 2004, 11:25 pm

i understand your intentions i just dont agree with the "eyes open" part

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 17, 2004, 11:32 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:In the real world, mearly understanding it doesn't quite cut it.

I see how bending the rules can help and can hurt.

If bending the rules helps get a piece of shit out of society, so be it. I hate scum. I hate criminals.

I also realize the necessity for these rights and how terrible things could be if we didn't have them. I just don't mind this little break from them. I want the scum who are living in the US, found and stopped. I don't care how they do it. I don't wish to see more Americans die. It sickens me everytime I think about how people can just hate a group of people so badly they want to murder as many as they can. It boggles my mind.

Trash me, label me, pick apart everything I say till you can discredit and humiliate me, but my intentions are pure....my eyes are open...I sleep well at night.

Hey i agree with you, we need to bend some rules to get those shitbags in jail. Hell, we all know jews are nothing but shitbags, lets just put them all in jail. Hell, we can bend the rules by enabling the death penalty to all criminals. Dude! we can make massive gas chambers, stick the jews in them, and get rid of those shitbags once in for all!
We can bend the rules and kill all the jews, put them in "work camps", haha those fucks wont see it comming.
God bless godfearing christians and god bless mr. bush

...you have got to be fucking kidding me

, just listen to yourself some times, your almost at the point where most civilized people could label you as a psychopath

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » March 17, 2004, 11:42 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:In the real world, mearly understanding it doesn't quite cut it.

I see how bending the rules can help and can hurt.

If bending the rules helps get a piece of shit out of society, so be it. I hate scum. I hate criminals.

But this is exactly my point. You *cannot* argue for "bending the rules" of the Constitution. If you think you can, then you don't understand US government as well as you think you do. In fact, I would go so far as to say you don't understand it at all.

An unconstitutional solution to a problem is not a real solution. That's not a hypothetical statement. I don't see how much more "real world" you can get than history of constitutional law in the US.

If the Constitution isn't absolute, then it's useless.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 18, 2004, 6:46 am

In the real world, mearly understanding it doesn't quite cut it

How the fuck would you know what goes on in the "real world" when you've repeatedly proven you have not the first fucking clue about it?

You claim to be a "realist" yet your world view is a putrid cocktail of half-baked notions, prejudiced thinking, spoonfed claptrap, bigotry, urban myth, tabloid hysteria and ignorance. And for the terrible crime of refusing to accept your bullshit as self-evident truth (which is about all the argument you've ever offered here that hasn't been shot down in flames within minutes) we who oppose you and everything you stand for are labelled with whatever flavour-of-the-week epithet is lodged in your tiny mind; anti-american, unpatriotic, childish, bush-hater, wtf ever.

I see in another thread you've finally given up like so many of your fore-runners. Your tissue-paper arguments cannot stand the glare of close inspection and you don't have the wit to realise the world is more complex than you will ever be able to grasp. So go back to whatever rock you crawled out from and carry on swilling down conservative dogshit while yukking with your buds about "clueless liberals".
Good riddance you fucking dolt.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 18, 2004, 7:24 am

brotha wrote:Edit: Adex you got it wrong. People around the world respect us more now (as demonstrated by Iran, Libya, etc) but people don't like us as much now. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

If only you had some respect maybe you could understand it a little better, unfortunately you mistake fear for respect. If a man you don't like points a gun at your head do you respect him more?

Midnyte, your statement represents the attitude that government should be fearmongering. For some reason, you don't seem to realize that Stalin ruled in this way, Hitler ruled in this way, and even fucking Saddam ruled in this way and yet you endorse it for your own fucking government. And when people try to point it out to you, that history has taught us that this is not the proper way to run a government you reply with this trite shit: "Hind sight is 20/20 man. Let's continue to move forward, nstead of picking apart the past."

You just don't get it. And while your intentions may be pure, your reasoning, your justifications, and your conclusions are diluted.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » March 18, 2004, 4:10 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
kyoukan wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Judges marrying gay couples.
That's a district judge, you fucking bumpkin.

The judge who ruled the 10 commandments had to be removed from the courthouse.
That judge was upholding the constitution 100%. Way to dig an example out of your ass that is a complete contradiction to your original assertation.
/shrug
Man I admire your style of argumentation, it is even more braindead than the one used by your glorious leader.
She asked me for examples of activist judges. I gave the two I could think off the top of my head. She doesn't like. What the fuck am I to do? She exhausts me with intellect. I am no match. She is obviously right. I hope the world comes around to her way of thinking and we all live in peace and harmony togther in the liberal socialist utopia.

they are only activist judges because they squelched your christian crusades well more like used an eye dropper on a forest fire ..

the only people that cause fights/hate in this world are the "i was raised to hate faggots/black/asian/chinese/italians/irish/your disabled/anyone thats different from me, like you becuase the bible told me so"

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 19, 2004, 2:49 am

DAMN! Been swamped with work the past couple of days and have missed a good arguement

Mid, I don't care if it's only those 2 you can even name, that 2 too many IMHO...

I don't think everyone here hates Bush, hell I voted for him, but over the years have been very disappointed and at times very pleased with my vote - just more disaappointed. I just would like someone more towards the middle. My issue is that I don't think Kerry is that man

Not a commie, not a fascist... just an American in search of others with IMHO... common sense.

Marb

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 19, 2004, 11:47 am

i'm obviously going to vote for Kerry regardless of what kind of a dipshit he may/may not turn out to be.

i am of the opinion that a government in gridlock is preferable to this administration, especially once they are freed from the bonds of having to worry about reelection of Bush.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 19, 2004, 12:00 pm

Y'know it's funny.. I see people like Midnyte and Brotha throwing around the 'blind hatred of bush' trumpcard as if it's some sort of defense for the offensive and often moronic actions the Bush administraion has initiated.

Like many people, I had a very neutral opinion of 'Dubya' when he took office. He was a bit of a doofus but that was no reason to dislike him. Hell, Canada's prime minister for the past decade was an even bigger doofus... Dubya's political career was unremarkable and nothing to be ashamed of before he took office.

The reason many (I might even say most) people, internationaly hold such disdain for Bush and his administration is 100% due to his actions since he has taken office.
His track record since he has taken office is nothing short of embarrasing, save for the month or two following 9/11

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » March 19, 2004, 12:19 pm

Both gore and bush were at fault really. Neither of them revealed thier intentions for the country. They just told everyone what they wanted to hear.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 19, 2004, 12:21 pm

Y'know it's funny.. I see people like Midnyte and Brotha throwing around the 'blind hatred of bush' trumpcard as if it's some sort of defense for the offensive and often moronic actions the Bush administraion has initiated.

Like many people, I had a very neutral opinion of 'Dubya' when he took office. He was a bit of a doofus but that was no reason to dislike him. Hell, Canada's prime minister for the past decade was an even bigger doofus... Dubya's political career was unremarkable and nothing to be ashamed of before he took office.

The reason many (I might even say most) people, internationaly hold such disdain for Bush and his administration is 100% due to his actions since he has taken office.
His track record since he has taken office is nothing short of embarrasing, save for the month or two following 9/11

No no NO! It's blind, automatic, knee-jerk, unthinking hatred!! There is no other kind because any idiot can see Bush Junior is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Which he invented. But what more can we expect from an anti-american liberal canadian, eh?

Dammit why does parody of extreme idiocy sound like the real thing? It takes all the fun out.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » March 19, 2004, 12:40 pm

miir wrote:Y'know it's funny.. I see people like Midnyte and Brotha throwing around the 'blind hatred of bush' trumpcard as if it's some sort of defense for the offensive and often moronic actions the Bush administraion has initiated.

Like many people, I had a very neutral opinion of 'Dubya' when he took office. He was a bit of a doofus but that was no reason to dislike him. Hell, Canada's prime minister for the past decade was an even bigger doofus... Dubya's political career was unremarkable and nothing to be ashamed of before he took office.

The reason many (I might even say most) people, internationaly hold such disdain for Bush and his administration is 100% due to his actions since he has taken office.
His track record since he has taken office is nothing short of embarrasing, save for the month or two following 9/11

Couldn't have agreed more. It's totally based upon his actions. This pretty much covers the problem

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view/06_large.shtml

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 19, 2004, 2:51 pm

miir wrote:Like many people, I had a very neutral opinion of 'Dubya' when he took office. He was a bit of a doofus but that was no reason to dislike him. Hell, Canada's prime minister for the past decade was an even bigger doofus... Dubya's political career was unremarkable and nothing to be ashamed of before he took office.

Well there was the whole deserter thing from the nat'l guard. and the rampant alcoholism and drug abuse. and the fact that he drove 3 businesses his daddy set him up in into the ground. and the fact he was arrested for fraud, which his daddy again bought his way out of. and he likes to execute retarded people. and he had to actually be tutored about other countries besides the united states when he was running for president because he doesn't know anything about them. and he can't put more than four words together without stumbling all over them like a first grader. he's pretty much been a failure his entire life.

and all the lies he told during his campaign like how he didnt want to use the military as a world policeman and to enforce american style democracies and systems on unwilling countries, when it was so obvious by his cabinet selection that he wanted to play soldier.

even before he frauded his way into the presidency by cheating florida out of their democratic rights as american citizens, it was obvious that any administration run by him would be a total failure. he's not a leader. shit, he's hardly even a follower. jesus fucking christ the man doesnt even read a newspaper or watch the news on tv. did you catch that? the leader of the free world does not know what is going on in the world beyond what his advisors tell him. this was common knowledge before he was even elected. the fact that anyone with an IQ over 40 even voted for him at all is testament to how absolutely fucking partisan the US is. the only reason he was selected to run for president is because he's pretty much the only GOP member that isn't up to his elbows in dirty money and scandal, except for Dole who didn't want to run again.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 19, 2004, 3:25 pm

I can honestly say I knew little of him when he was elected aside from his unremarkable political career. All of my opinions of GWB have come about as a reflection of his and his administration's actions since he was appointed president.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 20, 2004, 11:18 am

miir wrote:I can honestly say I knew little of him when he was elected aside from his unremarkable political career. All of my opinions of GWB have come about as a reflection of his and his administration's actions since he was appointed president.

Unfortunatley i supported his ass too=/, although i would have much prefered mccain

Leiberman was a douchebag, and Gore was not that much better. My dumb ass expected Bush to be a moderate, and not a war mongering cowboy who likes to take away social freedom (although Gore's moral crusading admin would prob. do the same). So i figured tax cuts, a good economy, and more tax cuts