Can the administration be this naive?...Or think we are?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » March 15, 2004, 2:54 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... h_kerry_dc

If Kerry refuses, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, then he is probably "making it up."

Im betting most of Europe is on that list, canada, etc...

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » March 15, 2004, 2:58 pm

Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) told "Fox News Sunday" that if Kerry cannot list the names, "then perhaps he should find something else to talk about

hahahah

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 15, 2004, 3:01 pm

I'd call him on it as well. Making general statements like that is lame.

I've spoken to a few leaders myself and none have said they want Kerry to defeat Bush.

edit 2: wtf, no edit time buffer anymore before you get the edit message listed at the bottom of your post?

edit: 3: that

edit: 4: is

edit 5: lame

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » March 15, 2004, 3:01 pm

Lets see Bush list his support list...lets see there's Tony Blair and...errm Vincente Fox...

Winnow wrote:I've spoken to a few leaders myself and none have said they want Kerry to defeat Bush.

You do realize EQ guild leaders don't count in this right?....

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 15, 2004, 3:02 pm

Bush sure started the attack campaign early. Well maybe not Bush himself. If it was only Bush he would probably just be calling Kerry an evildoer and a madman.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 15, 2004, 3:07 pm

heh of course the Republicans made up the whole "Kerry cheated on his wife!" crap..

Would be interesting to see a list, I have no doubt that some European leaders support Kerry. In fact I am willing to bet the list supporting Kerry is longer than the one supporting Bush.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 3:51 pm

Kerry shouldn't be making comments like that. It shows a lot about his character. I'm glad they called him out on this shit. Of course, he can't reveal the names, assumign there really are any names.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 3:52 pm

Kelshara wrote:heh of course the Republicans made up the whole "Kerry cheated on his wife!" crap..

Would be interesting to see a list, I have no doubt that some European leaders support Kerry. In fact I am willing to bet the list supporting Kerry is longer than the one supporting Bush.

No they didn't actually. The father of the girl started it. But then recanted a few days after the story broke. Wonder what changed his mind.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » March 15, 2004, 4:00 pm

What exactly does it show about his character? That the majority of the world wants him as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world rather than a cowboy "With Us or Against Us" president as the leader.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 4:01 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Kerry shouldn't be making comments like that. It shows a lot about his character. I'm glad they called him out on this shit. Of course, he can't reveal the names, assumign there really are any names.

Yea, unproven statements regarding foreign countries is definitely a no-no that the current administration always rises FAR above.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » March 15, 2004, 4:16 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Kerry shouldn't be making comments like that. It shows a lot about his character. I'm glad they called him out on this shit. Of course, he can't reveal the names, assumign there really are any names.
Yea, unproven statements regarding foreign countries is definitely a no-no that the current administration always rises FAR above.

You don't mean the s00per, sekret list of nations that really supported the Iraq war that were too askared to speak about it in public, including several from the Middle East???! Yeah, I bet those guys wish they could speak up in defense of Bush.

Kerry is a trash-talking madman in league with the axis of evil as part of a plot to undermine the American way of life; he represents a clear and present danger to our National Security™ interests. There is a good intelligence to indicate that he is harboring terrorists and producing WMDs. As a result, we will need to invade Massachusetts.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 4:17 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Kerry shouldn't be making comments like that. It shows a lot about his character. I'm glad they called him out on this shit. Of course, he can't reveal the names, assumign there really are any names.
Yea, unproven statements regarding foreign countries is definitely a no-no that the current administration always rises FAR above.

No, it's about showing a little class and not appearing to be a modern day thug sports character talking in a locker room about how I know people who want me to win, blah blah. It's scumy. But, I am sure it will help them appeal to their target voting group of poor, middle class, black, retards, 14-17 year olds, and prisoners.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 15, 2004, 4:24 pm

This is the kind of thing that someone running for an Office in Jr. High would say. "Well soandso wants me to win, they are "popular" lol... pretty lame of Kerry IMHO... no matter how it was state. Again, I don't think he is the person to be Bush but I could be wrong... and it looks like the Dems are stuck with him unless something happens...

Marb

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 15, 2004, 4:24 pm

i would suggest that Kerry is actually doing an OK job of positioning himself against Bush for the time being.

Bush's campaign has had to significantly alter their strategy based on how Kerry has campaigned. They have spent money far before they planned on it (good for them that they have $250 million), and they already have a negative ad on Kerry in wide circulation.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 15, 2004, 4:30 pm

haha of course Republicans and Bush couldn't do anythign wrong in the eyes od Midnyte.

- Bush talks about anonymous supporters, wooohoo he is God! Kerry does the same, Burn him!
- Do you seriously think the father of the girl just made it up out of the blue? How naive can you be?
- Showing class? When the hell has Bush ever showed class?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 15, 2004, 4:44 pm

Vetiria wrote:What exactly does it show about his character? That the majority of the world wants him as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world rather than a cowboy "With Us or Against Us" president as the leader.

What do you mean it shows the majority of the world wants him? The majority of the world wants me as well!

It's BS to make general statements like that and also quite lame for you to believe him. Bush could just as easily say the majority of the world wants him with exactly the same about of zero credibility.

Gore invented the interenet and the majority of the world wants Kerry. Half the gays don't want Kerry because he is against gay marriage, the other half want him because he's a good fuck. He's placed himself in a win win situation if people aren't bright enough to demand proof. The same goes for Bush on WMD's although he can blame our intelligence community.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 4:47 pm

Voronwë wrote:i would suggest that Kerry is actually doing an OK job of positioning himself against Bush for the time being.

Bush's campaign has had to significantly alter their strategy based on how Kerry has campaigned. They have spent money far before they planned on it (good for them that they have $250 million), and they already have a negative ad on Kerry in wide circulation.

I've seen the ad, it doesn't seem very bad. Negative in the sense it points out things Kerry isn't, but not negative as in harsh against Kerry.

Bush has to answer these ridiculous claims put out by the Kerry/Dems/Media on an hourly basis, somehow. It's unfortunate, but he will have to step down into the sewers with these people if he wants to win.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » March 15, 2004, 4:52 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:But, I am sure it will help them appeal to their target voting group of poor, middle class, black, retards, 14-17 year olds, and prisoners.

You make it sound like there is something wrong with being poor, middleclass or black. I mean, how dare he try and appeal to those people, they only make up the vast majority of the country, who gives a shit if their wants and needs are looked out for by the government.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 15, 2004, 4:53 pm

LOL Mid, the notion of the GOP putting on its hipwaders to wallow in the mire with the Democrats is ludicrous. As if to suggest taht it is really beneath the GOP to campaign negatively. I'm not saying Terry McCaulleth (i dont really like him) is an angel at all, but the GOP is just as bad, if not arguably much worse (my opinion).

For example, McCain got blistered by Bush's people in South Carolina in 2000 for example. Karl Rove is as dirty as any weasel taht ever slogged shit in any gutter

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 5:45 pm

Kargyle wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:But, I am sure it will help them appeal to their target voting group of poor, middle class, black, retards, 14-17 year olds, and prisoners.
You make it sound like there is something wrong with being poor, middleclass or black. I mean, how dare he try and appeal to those people, they only make up the vast majority of the country, who gives a shit if their wants and needs are looked out for by the government.

Yeah, excpet that is not what I said at all. I was just pointing out what groups I think that kind of childish shit will work with. It also happens to be their core group of current voters and future voters.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » March 15, 2004, 5:53 pm

Winnow wrote:
Vetiria wrote:What exactly does it show about his character? That the majority of the world wants him as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world rather than a cowboy "With Us or Against Us" president as the leader.
What do you mean it shows the majority of the world wants him? The majority of the world wants me as well!

It's BS to make general statements like that and also quite lame for you to believe him. Bush could just as easily say the majority of the world wants him with exactly the same about of zero credibility.

Gore invented the interenet and the majority of the world wants Kerry. Half the gays don't want Kerry because he is against gay marriage, the other half want him because he's a good fuck. He's placed himself in a win win situation if people aren't bright enough to demand proof. The same goes for Bush on WMD's although he can blame our intelligence community.

People know Gore didn't invent the internet, Iraq did not have WMD's, and the majority of people in every industrialized country in the world wants Bush out of office. These are not generalized statements.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 15, 2004, 5:58 pm

i would like to thank Mr. Bush for buying a health amount of advertising though on my employer's airwaves =).

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 6:15 pm

Winnow wrote:
Vetiria wrote:What exactly does it show about his character? That the majority of the world wants him as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world rather than a cowboy "With Us or Against Us" president as the leader.
What do you mean it shows the majority of the world wants him? The majority of the world wants me as well!

It's BS to make general statements like that and also quite lame for you to believe him. Bush could just as easily say the majority of the world wants him with exactly the same about of zero credibility.

Gore invented the interenet and the majority of the world wants Kerry. Half the gays don't want Kerry because he is against gay marriage, the other half want him because he's a good fuck. He's placed himself in a win win situation if people aren't bright enough to demand proof. The same goes for Bush on WMD's although he can blame our intelligence community.

I don't know if this is just you being difficult or you're really this clueless on this issue, but yes, the majority of the world does want Bush out. Whether world leaders will publically say this, no, I doubt it, because it will just result in "retribution" against them in the form of sanctions and the like. Likewise, it's also not Kerry's place to name names, but he shouldn't have said it in the first place, I'll agree. It's just stating the obvious (to the rest of the world) anyways.

Gore and the internet, YAWN. Kerry and gay marriages, he's not about to back a constitutional amendment banning them.

Kerry's statement does have credibility, just not proven to you, the voters. Your hypothetical statement would have no credibility; blind monkeys can tell that the world climate does not like Bush.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 15, 2004, 6:17 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Kerry shouldn't be making comments like that. It shows a lot about his character. I'm glad they called him out on this shit. Of course, he can't reveal the names, assumign there really are any names.
Yea, unproven statements regarding foreign countries is definitely a no-no that the current administration always rises FAR above.
No, it's about showing a little class and not appearing to be a modern day thug sports character talking in a locker room about how I know people who want me to win, blah blah. It's scumy. But, I am sure it will help them appeal to their target voting group of poor, middle class, black, retards, 14-17 year olds, and prisoners.

Look children! On the right we see a steryotipical Bush supporter.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 15, 2004, 6:23 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:...blind monkeys can tell that the world climate does not like Bush.

... or any US President, or the United States in general. Yeah... we're used to it.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 6:25 pm

Yea, there's a general animosity about the States, I wonder why....

As for any president, there's varying degrees of dislike. Clinton was a fairly well liked president, not by everyone for sure, but next to Bush he was the homecoming king.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 15, 2004, 6:31 pm

Honestly, do any Bush supporters HONESTLY believe that he is popular among world leaders?
I dont think John Kerry had any buisness making that comment due to he was only restating the obvious.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 6:52 pm

Xzion wrote:Honestly, do any Bush supporters HONESTLY believe that he is popular among world leaders?
I dont think John Kerry had any buisness making that comment due to he was only restating the obvious.

Yes. What reason would we have not to think so? Because the media says so?

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » March 15, 2004, 6:55 pm

because maybe he shoots down so many things in the UN and hardly anyone backs us there? That could be a reason

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 7:00 pm

Last time I checked they reported some 50+ countries involved in the Iraq war. Some major ones pussied out. So what? Because a fwe don't believ in preventative maintenance like the US does, now we have alienated the world? That's the way the media makes it out yes. But, things are never as pro or con as they are reported. It's all politics.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 7:02 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Xzion wrote:Honestly, do any Bush supporters HONESTLY believe that he is popular among world leaders?
I dont think John Kerry had any buisness making that comment due to he was only restating the obvious.
Yes. What reason would we have not to think so? Because the media says so?

Yes, because of the media's of numerous nations. Also, because of opinion polls. Oh yea, also because of the fact that most leading nations would not support him. Do you want a handwritten note from Putin saying "Hello comrade, I do not like George W. Bush"?

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » March 15, 2004, 7:03 pm

50 out of 191 members of the UN.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 15, 2004, 7:07 pm

Vetiria wrote:50 out of 191 members of the UN.

not bad, thats 25%.

what the fuck do you people want? too funny.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » March 15, 2004, 7:09 pm

Wow, you just reached a whole new level of stupid.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 7:10 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:what the fuck do you people want? too funny.

Personally I'd like you to choke on a cock, but you'd probably get that wrong too.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » March 15, 2004, 7:10 pm

50 isnt bad huh? how many of those are major countries?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 15, 2004, 7:13 pm

i think it is a very valid point about 50 nations being involved in the Iraq conflict.

I don't know the answer to my next question, but i think what is relevant is that what number of those are contributing any substantative support. UK obviously. Japan has pledged money and has sent a small group of troops.

countries are interested in participating in Iraq because it is in their interest to do so. Doing business with the US is what most people want to do, and Iraq also presents some lucrative opportunity potentially.

That doesn't mean that all of those countries are going to be happy about the way things all went down, but also in the end, if they make some cash out of the whole deal, they won't give 2 shits in the end.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 7:17 pm

Forty-nine countries are publicly committed to the Coalition, including:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan

Those Micronesian Pikemen are fearsome! Seriously, if this was in person I'd challenge you to find half of these countries on a map.

Lets see. Major countries..

Australia
Czech Rep.
Denmark (not really, this is just for Drolgin!!)
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Spain
UK

Now, of that list, Spain and Italy were/are STRONGLY opposed to being a part of it based off of public opinion polls. Not too sure how Italy is standing now since the incident where Italian soldiers died in an attack in Iraq. Australians were vocally opposed to joining. Japan was a non-combat presence.

Lets look at some of the major nations that "pussied out".

Russia
Germany
France
Canada
China
Mexico
Brazil

And I've probably forgotten a lot of nations that would qualify as "major". Egypt? South Africa? Iran(heh)?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 7:21 pm

Voronwë wrote:i think it is a very valid point about 50 nations being involved in the Iraq conflict.

I don't know the answer to my next question, but i think what is relevant is that what number of those are contributing any substantative support. UK obviously. Japan has pledged money and has sent a small group of troops.

countries are interested in participating in Iraq because it is in their interest to do so. Doing business with the US is what most people want to do, and Iraq also presents some lucrative opportunity potentially.

That doesn't mean that all of those countries are going to be happy about the way things all went down, but also in the end, if they make some cash out of the whole deal, they won't give 2 shits in the end.

Yea, most pledges of aid were token gestures, basically governments wanting to keep on the good side and have the business opportunities in rebuilding the place. Even then, some of them will probabyl regret it greatly due to the reprecusions. Spain for example.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 15, 2004, 7:21 pm

I'm going to side with myself on this one.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 15, 2004, 7:36 pm

Dregor Thule wrote: Lets look at some of the major nations that "pussied out".

Canada

And you pick on the poor Micronisian Pikemen...

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 7:39 pm

Ashur wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote: Lets look at some of the major nations that "pussied out".

Canada
And you pick on the poor Micronisian Pikemen...

I fully expected that!

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 15, 2004, 8:06 pm

I'll give you a fun fact.

The MAJORITY of the population IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY on earth other then the US and Israel are against the war in Iraq.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » March 15, 2004, 8:59 pm

haha, Thank god we got Azerbaijan on our side!!!! I heard most of the countries in the coalition did not do a whole lot compared to the US. And countries like Australia more than 70% of their citizens were AGAINST the war, even while being lied to. I agree Kerry shouldn't have made the statement but its pretty goddamn obvious most countries favor Kerry.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 15, 2004, 9:13 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah, excpet that is not what I said at all. I was just pointing out what groups I think that kind of childish shit will work with. It also happens to be their core group of current voters and future voters.

nod nod, those stupid fucking niggers will fall for anything.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » March 15, 2004, 9:22 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Forty-nine countries are publicly committed to the Coalition, including:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
Those Micronesian Pikemen are fearsome! Seriously, if this was in person I'd challenge you to find half of these countries on a map.

Lets see. Major countries..

Australia
Czech Rep.
Denmark (not really, this is just for Drolgin!!)
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Spain
UK

Now, of that list, Spain and Italy were/are STRONGLY opposed to being a part of it based off of public opinion polls. Not too sure how Italy is standing now since the incident where Italian soldiers died in an attack in Iraq. Australians were vocally opposed to joining. Japan was a non-combat presence.

Lets look at some of the major nations that "pussied out".

Russia
Germany
France
Canada
China
Mexico
Brazil

And I've probably forgotten a lot of nations that would qualify as "major". Egypt? South Africa? Iran(heh)?

that country list looks like a list of the countrys that we give welfare to ...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 15, 2004, 9:32 pm

I read that Tonga was the deal breaker on whether to go to war or not.

Too bad most of the major countries that supported the Iraq war have already been cut out of rebuilding deals and are currently getting fucked by Bush's protectionist trade deals.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 15, 2004, 9:33 pm

They willingly got screwed over.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » March 15, 2004, 10:30 pm

Of coarse theres some foreign leaders that want Kerry to win, but I dont think hell tell who they are, I sure as hell wouldn't advise it....Ok lets look at only the obvious!!

Lets see there is Osama Bin Laden and Al'Qooky.

umm then Saddam Hussein and the bathing party, but he no longer is a leader..He must really hate Bush, so Im sure hed like Kerry..I remember how he had a mass celebration when Bush I lost to Clinton.

The new Socialist Gov't of Spain Id have to say is a easy one..

France and Chirac, since they lost out on illegal oil contracts from Saddam.

Libya..no brainer.

Koffi Annan, since his poor son will no longer get illegal oil contracts from Saddam Husseins food for oil program.

ohh who else put a hold on the whole Iraq situation because theyd loose money on oil..they war was about oil less than not going to war was...Russia and China..who both had illegal contracts setup with Saddam, but I think Putin would truely rather have Bush though since they have a really good personal relationship.

Arafat would be a safe bet too.

Another thing on that list you could argue:
Australia
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Netherlands
Poland
Romania
Singapore
South Korea
Spain
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States

Bring more than Brazil or Mexico as major countries from your claim...Germany and Canada maybe France are the only countries anyone should bring up as a failure to get in the coalition. Russia China?? Um look at history...amazing the Ukraine was involved being it was a major part(oil) of the old Soviet Union.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » March 15, 2004, 11:03 pm

Xzion wrote:I'll give you a fun fact.

The MAJORITY of the population IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY on earth other then the US and Israel are against the war in Iraq.

Sirton and Midnyte, your list of countrys supporting Bush hold no water.
Do you for a second in hell think Blair is gonna get re-elected? Same thing will happen there as in spain, and hopefully the same thing here.
A nice clean wave of rationalism and a progressive step foward in society is comming!