Dubious at best

[Jice Virago]

I found this article fairly interesting in its implications. This part in particular grabbed my eye:

Claims of Aristide abduction denied
On Sunday, Haitian Prime Minister Yvon Neptune announced that Aristide had resigned and had left the nation for an unknown destination. His address was followed by the installation of Alexandre, Haiti's Supreme Court chief justice, as the president of a transitional government, as mandated by Haiti's constitution.

On Monday, African-American activist Randall Robinson said Aristide had called him on a smuggled cell phone and told him that he did not leave office voluntarily. Robinson said Aristide told him he was "abducted" by U.S. soldiers in "full battle gear" early Sunday and was being held "incommunicado" in the Central African Republic.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan described the claim as "complete nonsense." "Conspiracy theories do nothing to help the Haitian people move forward to a better, more free and more prosperous future," McClellan said Monday.

Powell also denied the kidnapping claim. "We didn't force him onto the airplane," Powell said. "He went on the airplane willingly and that's the truth."

The kidnapping accusation also was reported Monday by Rep. Maxine Waters, D-California, and Aristide's attorney, Ira Kurzman. Waters said she had spoken with Aristide by phone and he had told her a story similar to Robinson's.

Waters said that Aristide also had told his story to Rep. Charles Rangle, D-New York.

"What you need to ask is this: Would [Aristide] call three different people -- two members of the United States Congress and tell us that he has been kidnapped -- that a coup d'état has taken place -- unless he believed that?" Waters said. "And do you think we would make this information up?"

Aristide attorney Kurzman said the story originated with groundskeepers and housekeepers at Aristide's home in Haiti.

"The State Department refused to put me in contact with my client," Kurzman said. "I have found out today everything that was my worst nightmare. Today I have learned that the president of the Republic of Haiti was kidnapped by U.S. Marines, taken forcibly from his home, put on an American aircraft," he said.

An Associated Press report filed early Monday from Central African Republic included no mention of U.S. troops accompanying Aristide and his wife during their arrival in Bangui

If this is true and is proven so, the fallout would be enormous. We would be taking heat in the international community and Bush would be taking some shots here at home in the press. Anyone have any more details on this situation?

[Krurk]

If we abducted a chief of state like this, would we be stupid enough to let him get within 1 mile of a cellphone, let alone be able to talk on it long enough to call those people?

[Voronwë]

Colin Powell denying this.

But members of the Congressional Black Caucaus were supposedly contacted by Aristide, and that is where the story came from. So at least one member of Congress is putting this out there as well.

[Jice Virago]

If we abducted a chief of state like this, would we be stupid enough to let him get within 1 mile of a cellphone, let alone be able to talk on it long enough to call those people?

Never underestimate the capacity of people to be incompetant and stupid. Could also be intentional sloppiness if the grunts holding him don't like the idea of what they were doing.

[Xouqoa]

Powell also denied the kidnapping claim. "We didn't force him onto the airplane," Powell said. "He went on the airplane willingly and that's the truth."

Powell didn't deny anything about the soldiers, just that he wasn't forced onto the plane. Perhaps there is partial truth to the story somewhere.

[Lalanae]

Well it looks like it's true, well at least as true as what Aristide perceives the situation to be.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 9&ncid=716

ATLANTA, Ga. - Jean-Bertrand Aristide said in a telephone interview Monday that he was "forced to leave" Haiti by U.S. military forces.

Aristide was put in contact with The Associated Press by the Rev. Jesse Jackson (news - web sites) following a news conference, where the civil rights leader called on Congress to investigate Aristide's ouster.

When asked if he left Haiti on his own, Aristide quickly answered: "No. I was forced to leave.

"They were telling me that if I don't leave they would start shooting, and be killing in a matter of time," Aristide said during the brief interview via speaker phone. He spoke with a thick Haitian accent, his voice obscured at times by a bad connection. It was unclear whether Aristide meant that rebels or U.S. agents would begin shooting.

When asked who the agents were, he responded: "White American, white military.

"They came at night. ... There were too many. I couldn't count them," he added.

Aristide told reporters that he signed documents relinquishing power out of fear that violence would erupt in Haiti if he didn't comply with the demands of "American security agents."

U.S. authorities have dismissed Aristide's claims as unfounded.

Aristide on Monday said he was in his palace in Port-au-Prince when the military force arrived. He said he thought he was being taken to the Caribbean island of Antigua, but instead he has been exiled to the Central African Republic.

Aristide described the agents as "good, warm, nice," but added that he had no rights during his 20-hour flight to Africa.

Aristide's wife, Mildred, initiated Monday's telephone call, said Shelley Davis, a special assistant to Jackson. She said the reverend and the president's family have been close for about a decade.

Also Monday, two Democratic congressmen, California's Maxine Waters and New York's Charles Rangel, said they, too, had spoken to Aristide, and he had made similar claims.

"The president said to me, 'I was kidnapped. I did not go of my own will. I did not want to go,'" Waters said in Los Angeles.

Jackson said Congress should investigate whether the United States, specifically the CIA (news - web sites), had a role in the rebellion that led to Aristide's exile.

Jackson encouraged reporters to question where the rebels in Haiti got their guns and uniforms.

"Why would we immediately support an armed overthrow and not support a constitutionally elected government?" Jackson said.

Aristide, who fled Haiti under pressure from the rebels, his political opponents, the United States and France, arrived Monday in the Central African Republic, according to the country's state radio. He has claimed that he was abducted from Haiti by U.S. troops who accompanied him to Africa.

The White House, Pentagon (news - web sites) and State Department have denied allegations that Aristide was kidnapped by U.S. forces eager for him to resign.

[Akaran_D]

This wouldn't surprise me. The rebellion had just moved into the capital, and he kept sitting there swearing he'd never ever leave office... then about 12hrs later, he's gone.

Given this current administration, removing him does not seem implausable. Infact, that was the first thing I thought when he was reported to have left the region.

Then again, given that if the idiot hadn't left, there could have been casualties in the thousands... pre-emptive strike by the US, possibly.

[Arborealus]

This wouldn't surprise me. The rebellion had just moved into the capital, and he kept sitting there swearing he'd never ever leave office... then about 12hrs later, he's gone.

Given this current administration, removing him does not seem implausable. Infact, that was the first thing I thought when he was reported to have left the region.

Then again, given that if the idiot hadn't left, there could have been casualties in the thousands... pre-emptive strike by the US, possibly.

A hideously illegal one if so...

I'm thinking it probably went down more like "You need to leave or we will not protect you further"...More of a get on the plane or stay here and be killed by the opposition thing...I sincerely hope that's how it went down...I can't imagine a US president actually ousting an elected head of state directly with military force...Well Noriega...Hrmmmm...I'll give Bush's people the benefit of the doubt for now...Aristide is a bit of a nutcase...We shall see

[Sylvus]

I'll admit that I can't recall which stations I flipped past, but at least NBC and (I think) CNN had tickers saying it basically went down as you were hoping, Arbor. They said that the military basically said "Come vit me if you vant to live" and that he did.

[Arborealus]

I'll admit that I can't recall which stations I flipped past, but at least NBC and (I think) CNN had tickers saying it basically went down as you were hoping, Arbor. They said that the military basically said "Come vit me if you vant to live" and that he did.

Apparently Coup and Rescue are synonyms in Haiti......

Still if an armed contingent of Marines showed up at my house and said "come with us if you want to live"...well there are two ways to take that at least......Surely we have better translators than that if not more intelligent marines...

Ya know it would really suck if we just pulled a coup de etat because of idiomatic quirks...but that sounds entirely possible here doesn't it...

[Voronwë]

Aristide is kind of nutty, so that is an important thing to consider.

[vn_Tanc]

Yes he's a nutball and I think he's also pissed off cos he spent the last week begging the US to send troops to keep him in power and got told to F Off.

[Kelshara]

I'll admit that I can't recall which stations I flipped past, but at least NBC and (I think) CNN had tickers saying it basically went down as you were hoping, Arbor. They said that the military basically said "Come vit me if you vant to live" and that he did.

Although that might very well be true.. would you honestly beleive they would have said otheriwse if they had "kidnapped" him?

[Arborealus]

I'll admit that I can't recall which stations I flipped past, but at least NBC and (I think) CNN had tickers saying it basically went down as you were hoping, Arbor. They said that the military basically said "Come vit me if you vant to live" and that he did.

Although that might very well be true.. would you honestly beleive they would have said otheriwse if they had "kidnapped" him?

Note the lack of world response to the "kidnapping" so far?...The world community is pretty familiar with Aristide......He really is quite a loony...And the black caucus who are in communication with Aristide would have thrown a tizzy by now...They would love to smack Bush...As much as I loathe the Pres, I'm betting this is just hysterics on Aristide's part