Horizons

valryte · Post by **valryte** » December 27, 2003, 1:52 am

Is anyone playing Horizons? If so which shard?

Leeroie · Post by **Leeroie** » December 27, 2003, 2:15 am

What I wanna know, is tha game even worth playin?

Salis · Post by **Salis** » December 27, 2003, 2:22 am

Not in the slightest, emptiest game i've ever seen. The combat is almost totally automated, and the tradeskills seem decent, but they didn't hold my interest for long.

valryte · Post by **valryte** » December 27, 2003, 2:50 am

Since I no longer really play EQ, I'm just passing time with it. I won't dare try to judge it against EQ that has been around for so many years. I find it ridiculous when someone trys to compare a game that has been under development for a third of the time. It's just pointless and stupid. I can say this much, it's release sure is better than AO's!

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 27, 2003, 3:10 am

valryte wrote:I find it ridiculous when someone trys to compare a game that has been under development for a third of the time. It's just pointless and stupid. I can say this much, it's release sure is better than AO's!

EQ is the benchmark for all mmorpg's (neverminding the fact this IS an eq board) for years to come. No game, even at its launch, has held an audience as captive as EQ did. So I think it's very reasonable to compare the two. Sure, maybe comparing the launch of other mmorpg's to present day EQ may be a bit too stretched, but comparing the two in the opening months is very appropriate.

And the reason the launch went as smooth as it did is from lack of player base.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 27, 2003, 3:10 am

Horizons was announced before plane of fear even opened up as far as I can remember.

Fucking game is ugly, boring and stupid. Whoa, it's the kylere of videogames!

valryte · Post by **valryte** » December 27, 2003, 3:36 am

Tell me, how boring can it possibly be compared to EQ when it first started. So far lets see, I'm killing Flame beetles. If I recall, when I first started EQ I was killing um, Fire Beetles...The game has been out for what, 3 weeks. Ur telling me that 3 weeks into EQ, people were holding raids and killing Nag and Vox? Now I will say this, for it being 2003 the graphics aren't that great, but they aren't that terrible. A game that actually has signs saying Monsters over there is definately not starting out well. Right now I'm just wasting time waiting for hopefully WoW or EQ2 to really deliver on something new. However I doubt any game will ever recreate the feeling we all had when we first started playing UO and EQ. Somehow I think we're just jaded and no MMORPG will ever really amaze us like EQ originally did. Guess we'll have to wait and see, until then I'll keep smacking some Flame Beetles or shooting up some Nazi's in Call of Duty.

valryte · Post by **valryte** » December 27, 2003, 3:43 am

BTW, don't get me wrong, EQ is still number one. I've just played it for so many dam years. If I had never played an MMORPG, I'd still pick EQ over any of the crap out there.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 27, 2003, 6:42 am

EQ was an absolute fucking blast in beta and on into release. Horizons has a lot less to do, less story, less cities, less culture and certainly a lot less dungeons than EQ had. Horizons simply does absolutely nothing that other games (partuculariy EQ) has done before.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 27, 2003, 7:34 am

Basically, EQ started a trend that no other franchise has touched to date. Sure, ideas have been there....but really... Dark Ages was a great for a few hours tops. I can't imagine anything coming close to the "all-knowing wonder-fuck" that is what we know and love as EQ.

.... we really need a new game

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » December 27, 2003, 7:42 am

valryte wrote:Tell me, how boring can it possibly be compared to EQ when it first started. So far lets see, I'm killing Flame beetles. If I recall, when I first started EQ I was killing um, Fire Beetles...The game has been out for what, 3 weeks.

Shit, when I first started playing at Qeynos, I thought killing fire beetles was awesome. The first time I solo'd the Queen ( Kliknik? Klaknak? ) I thought it was a damn good accomplishment. Dunno what you're talking about.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 27, 2003, 8:37 am

I'll agree that a MMORPG has to do a lot more to wow you than EQ had to back in 1998 or whenever it was. I'll play any game that is fun to play and don't really have a desire to play something totally original and completely new every time I play a new game.

However the fact of the matter is I can't think of any MMORPG out now for any period of time that has more content than EQ had at launch. Maybe DAOC after 2 or 3 expansions or whatever is coming close, but I doubt it. DAOC's idea of a city are two huts and a tree with a cart under it. WELCOME TO CAMELOT POPULATION THREE.

In EQ each race had their own starting city (humans got 2), rangers and druids got their own zone (they are all wasted now but back in the day I'd say all but the troll/ogre cities were teeming with players). There were dozens of dungeons and outdoor zones to troop around in, and most zones actually meant something and you could tell they were hand done (with the exception of lavastorm, innothule and that awful fuckign forest the erudites too stupid to ride a boat were stuck in). I dare you to find anything outdoors in fucking Horizons. It's a goddam rolling grass hill simulator. It would have taken EQ's worldbuilders their lunchbreak to design that entire game. Horizon's idea of breaking up the monotony is putting a rock in the world with 6 skeletons standing around it. It took them 5 years to make this crap? What the hell were they doing? Smoking weed and making up new shit they were never going to implement on their official messageboard?

I won't even get into how god damn ugly it is other than to say why do I get like 5 frames per second indoors on my athon xp 2500+ and geforce 4 card when it looks worse than fucking EQ did? Who the hell did those player models? A first week 3D anim student with a warezed copy of lightwave 2.0? They're atrocious. Are there even any social animations or more than one combat animation? Why is there no mana? What is the point of being a mage if you don't have to manage your mana? All you do is hit the fucking auto cast button and you keep casting the same fucking spell over and over again for roughly the same amount of damage I'd be doing with a sword. The particle engine is so eye burningly ugly that it actually hurt my feelings. I felt like Alex with his eyelids clipped open while I was being forced to watch all these horrific images on my monitor, only now I dry heave every time I try to play a video game.

There really is not a single redeeming quality in that game beyond "well trade skills don't make me want to hose down the local dairy queen with an uzi every time I think about mining ore" Gee how wonderful. The only thing good about is thinking about how much cash ninan flushed down the toilet because he's too goddam stupid to not waste it on retarded crap. Some people can't be trusted with mummy and daddy's trust fund.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 27, 2003, 10:32 am

EQ > all

move along now, nothing to see here.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 27, 2003, 12:00 pm

Not only does this go in the Video Game General Discussion forum, but this topic was already addressed there as well!

Horizons = suckage

There is WAY too much that needs to be done to the game. If it had come out the way it is now but when it was SUPPOSED to, it might have stood a chance. Now it is just a couple years behind the "standard."

miir · Post by **miir** » December 27, 2003, 4:40 pm

Horizons is worse than the first month of AO.

Kwonryu DragonFist · December 27, 2003, 6:34 pm

I think Miss Kyo summed up my opinions as well!

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 27, 2003, 9:03 pm

Horizons was a sweet game when all they had was the cool concept art and the original devs who were rediculously optimistic.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 27, 2003, 9:41 pm

kyoukan wrote:EQ was an absolute fucking blast in beta and on into release.

fucking a

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » December 28, 2003, 12:22 am

I think a lot of it has to do with the sense of wonder and "newbieness" that we all had when EQ came out. I don't think we'll ever be able to capture the same feeling we had when we stepped into a newbie zone for the first time, or had the first Crush kill. These things were new, and were pillars in a completely new game that none of us had seen or played before. Now it's just more of the same. If a game could capture the imagination the way EQ did at launch, it would be everything that EQ was at release.

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » December 28, 2003, 3:53 am

I was shocked when I found out it was actually on the market. I thought, "did they fix all the problems in time?" From what I have heard so far, perhaps not.

It really drove me nuts that I kept crashing. I did not have the best CPU nor the best graphics card, but I did have everything dumbed down. Still, graphically intesive situations (like, lots of folks in a town ... or not even lots of folks, jut moving/rotating too fast in towns) gave the loading algorithm a hernia, or so I reckon, and it would just dump you out of game. Nice out of range behavior handling there.

As for the game itself, in some regards, it is a completely different game than EQ. Forget about camping forever to get sexy drops, the entire economy is crafted items. There are three things that can be bought, either at the consignment merchants or buy-and-resell-at-big-markup NPC type of merchants: crafted items, materials to make crafted items, or recipes. Monsters drop recipes and materials .. and sometimes broken gear which can be salvaged and in some cases repaired.

A lot of folks found this type of economy flawed. I just think of it as different, and despite the fact that I think it is moronic that someone who knows how to make a bronze axe cant teach another how to do it (sorry, kid, you gotta get your own damn recipe - I'd love to tell ya how to make it, but I cant), overall, I found the whole thing pretty effective, at least at the lower levels.

In some regards, it is very much like EQ. Fight lots of stuff, make money, buy the stuff you want from the bazaar (in this case, the consignment merchants). The problem is that I found the combat excrusiatingly boring, as did many others, and there were often difficulties in finding the next level of mobs to fight (I sure hope they retooled MOB populations before it went live).

At least the crafting was fun. It was much better than DAoC's, and infinately better than EQ's. Just the whole idea that it isnt a money sink is a fresh approach.

The world feels huge, even though you can port all over the place. One day, I decided to run north from the dwarf city to see if I could find the blue demon city: I got close, but found the half giant one, instead. It was a great run, as all of the cross country runs were - the world engine really is quite a feat of design. It's too bad it feels so barren, though.

I think, in short, they spent too much time creating a world, and didnt spend enough time creating a game. This is a game that could very easily be repaired, though, but I wonder if they will ever have the subscribers to make it all turn the corner.

PS: The absolute worst thing they did - dwarf models sporting gorilla arms. Sheesh!

Falino · Post by **Falino** » December 29, 2003, 3:46 am

I wasted $50 on this piece of shit, don't do the same. Do yourself a favor and wait for WoW or EQ2 to enter beta if you're looking for a new MMORPG to play.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » December 29, 2003, 4:48 am

Expanse server. shoot me an email or PM for more info if you are playing. Its all about being in a well established and effective guild. The game is limitless with the flexibility they have over the client and engine. The devs have the ability to change anything in the gameworld on the fly, no server reboots required.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 29, 2003, 5:14 am

Falino!!!! We miss yas sir!

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » December 29, 2003, 5:21 am

/echo canelek

Come back falino!!

/grin

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 29, 2003, 12:35 pm

Kaldaur wrote:I think a lot of it has to do with the sense of wonder and "newbieness" that we all had when EQ came out. I don't think we'll ever be able to capture the same feeling we had when we stepped into a newbie zone for the first time, or had the first Crush kill. These things were new, and were pillars in a completely new game that none of us had seen or played before. Now it's just more of the same. If a game could capture the imagination the way EQ did at launch, it would be everything that EQ was at release.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the newness factor. However, noone has been able to capture a truly interesting world like eq did. There was more thought put into the home cities alone then some of the crap you see today. Each one is still a marvel compared to the stuff released today. And that's sad considering the follow-ups had more material and experience building this stuff to work with.

miir · Post by **miir** » December 29, 2003, 2:15 pm

However, noone has been able to capture a truly interesting world like eq did.

I found AOs world far more compelling than Everquest.
There are pockets of interesting shit all over the place.
Some of the zones are so vast... I would spend some days just exploring some of the more remote zones. I'd sometimes find shit that was just mindblowing... and that was over a year after I started playing.

miir · Post by **miir** » December 29, 2003, 2:28 pm

The game is limitless with the flexibility they have over the client and engine. The devs have the ability to change anything in the gameworld on the fly, no server reboots required.

So, is that supposed to make up for the sparse/barren gameworld, shitty character models, abysmal performance (even on high end systems), horrible client stability and lack of any sort of character customization?

Horizons should have been marketed as a 'crafting simulator'.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 29, 2003, 2:47 pm

i think you cannot launch a MMORPG without it being ready. It is simply poor marketing.

you have a limited window to get your product the appropriate amount of 'buzz' that will translate into a lot of sales/subscribers. If you have a shit product in that time, it doesnt matter if it gets fixed 6 months down the road.

It is too late.

nobody has probably run the numbers on this market, and this circumstance, but i bet i'm right.

Salis · Post by **Salis** » December 29, 2003, 3:32 pm

I think it's a throwback to normal games development, traditionally publishers have pushed the devs to let the game go on the deadline, regardless. This attitude is totally wrong in the MMOG market. I guess it'll take another few multi million dollar messes to get the message through.

Also, I think EQ was a labour of love, I know if I was involved in the project it would have caught my interest in a big way. It seems a lot (if not everything) since has been designed according to corporate plan. And those are generally horseshit

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 29, 2003, 4:04 pm

miir wrote:
However, noone has been able to capture a truly interesting world like eq did.
I found AOs world far more compelling than Everquest.
There are pockets of interesting shit all over the place.
Some of the zones are so vast... I would spend some days just exploring some of the more remote zones. I'd sometimes find shit that was just mindblowing... and that was over a year after I started playing.

I guess since I have about 50 days played time in AO including beta, I could agree it was compelling. Not so much so as EQ though. Certainly more interesting than AC or DAoC to be sure.

Falino · Post by **Falino** » December 30, 2003, 3:58 pm

Canoe wrote:/echo canelek

Come back falino!!

/grin

Turn back the clock to pre Luclin, where raids meant 30 people rather than 60, raids mobs didn't have 10000000000 HP, and exp meant zones like Howling Stones, Sebilis, Chardok, hell even Velks, there were no flags, and I'd come back in a second. Luclin and PoP made the game far less fun for me.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » December 30, 2003, 4:06 pm

Falino wrote:
Canoe wrote:/echo canelek

Come back falino!!

/grin
Turn back the clock to pre Luclin, where raids meant 30 people rather than 60, raids mobs didn't have 10000000000 HP, and exp meant zones like Howling Stones, Sebilis, Chardok, hell even Velks, there were no flags, and I'd come back in a second. Luclin and PoP made the game far less fun for me.

But he's one helluva tank gunner in Planetside... I can tell ya!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » December 30, 2003, 4:22 pm

Chidoro wrote:I don't think anyone disagrees with the newness factor. However, noone has been able to capture a truly interesting world like eq did.

Actually I thought DAoC was incredible when I first starting playing there. But then they started to become a clone of EQ rather than something special on its own. Sad.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » December 30, 2003, 6:19 pm

miir wrote:
However, noone has been able to capture a truly interesting world like eq did.
I found AOs world far more compelling than Everquest.
There are pockets of interesting shit all over the place.
Some of the zones are so vast... I would spend some days just exploring some of the more remote zones. I'd sometimes find shit that was just mindblowing... and that was over a year after I started playing.

Yea, that was some good shit you were smoking.... =8-P

Actually, the thing that kept me in AO for so long was the world... it was truly awesome... lots of different items, and cool things to see.... course, when I left, it was the gameplay that killed it for me.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 30, 2003, 8:56 pm

Bubba, DAoC's world was so damn vanilla, it hurt to run through it. It hurt to level through it. It was boring as sin to run through it. There was nothing breathtaking about it either. At all.

My own opinion of course

Falino · Post by **Falino** » January 1, 2004, 4:33 pm

TO give you an idea of how retarded this game is, groups of 4 are already killing what is supposed to currently be the hardest mob in the game.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » January 1, 2004, 4:41 pm

a giant maggot or zombie?

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » January 1, 2004, 4:55 pm

Haha Good one Zamtuk!

The only types of monsters we saw in Beta! Oh and some small piglets too

Karae · Post by **Karae** » January 1, 2004, 8:18 pm

valryte wrote:Since I no longer really play EQ, I'm just passing time with it. I won't dare try to judge it against EQ that has been around for so many years. I find it ridiculous when someone trys to compare a game that has been under development for a third of the time. It's just pointless and stupid. I can say this much, it's release sure is better than AO's!

Like it or not, a game is going to have to be better than EQ to get people's attention. EQ had to jump the same hoop with UO. The problem is, too many games are trying to emulate/spin EQ rather than improve upon it. In fact, Seymoure Cray, designer of the Cray supercomputer, claimed that a new product has to be at least six times better than the existing product to take significant numbers of customers from the pre-existing competitor. I'd say this is even more true of MMORPGs given the amount of time people have commited to their characters and the amount of time required to level up new ones.

It's also safe to say that if Xanupox is playing it, it blows. I mean, he played AC2...

edit: I'm not sure, but I heard all the problems with Horizons were Ninan's fault... Vicious rumor? You be the judge!

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » January 1, 2004, 9:32 pm

If a mmog is going to beat eq, it cant try to imitate eq, they would have to make a completely different play style to grab attention.

miir · Post by **miir** » January 2, 2004, 2:11 am

It's also safe to say that if Xanupox is playing it, it blows. I mean, he played AC2...

WTF, AC2 was awesome......

For about 2-3 weeks.
Hehe yea, safe to say if Xanupox sings the praises of a game, it's probably shitty.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » January 3, 2004, 5:31 am

miir wrote:
It's also safe to say that if Xanupox is playing it, it blows. I mean, he played AC2...
WTF, AC2 was awesome......
...
For about 2-3 weeks.
Hehe yea, safe to say if Xanupox sings the praises of a game, it's probably shitty.

Everquest is still a good game..... 8/