First in Force

Fynris · Post by **Fynris** » September 13, 2002, 4:32 pm

Question please...

Scene Description: There is an encounter that your guild wants to try, but there is another force there prepping for the same mob... They have already wiped out once and seem to be stalling for time in order to CR and prepare for a second attempt. Your guild force arives just after their failed first attempt. You advise them of your objective and ask them an eta on their next attempt, they tell you 10 minutes. Your guild decides to wait longer than 10 minutes and still the first force has not engaged.

Q - Is it appropriate after the agreed upon 10 minutes, if they have not engaged, to go ahead and move in?

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » September 13, 2002, 4:38 pm

In my opinion, yes. Inform them of what you are doing first, though.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » September 13, 2002, 4:38 pm

First you have to ask yourself if 10 minutes is a realistic amount of time to do the cr and rebuff. Personally I would wait until they actually tried again. Then if they failed you should have a free shot at it. I suppose however that I wouldn't like to wait more than 30 minutes for them to take that shot.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 13, 2002, 4:40 pm

If it's me running my guild and it's not (you'd have to offer me a 6 figure salary just to get me to consider running a guild).

Depending on the target, and the guild attempting, I might help or just walk away. However, if it was a mob my guild really needed...

I'd reengage the other guild/raid leader in a dialogue.
I'd ask what the ETA was for engagement.
I'd explain then advise them that we would be engaging in a more than fair amount of time.

For example. If the request was 10 minutes, I'd give them 15-20.

I'd also stay the hell out of their way during their attempt, and if possible offer to help them with resses etc. if they wiped.

Dups. · Post by **Dups.** » September 13, 2002, 4:42 pm

Depends on your guild

Try and reverse the roles. If you were the guild on a CR after dying a first time and you want a second , third and forth try! Would you want someone else breathing down your back.

I would find it common courtesy to let them try without being too pushy.

If the guild is smart enough to figure out. "Ok we cannot kill this mob at this time" Then let the other guild waiting try.

If you guys want to stick around and wait until they give up then I beleive it was your decision to WAIT until the people that were there first give up and let you try.

This of course is if both guilds are not childish and can reason like adults.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » September 13, 2002, 4:44 pm

10-15 minutes notice and/or one attempt seems pretty standard anymore.

Depends on the mob to some extent.

*Edit - Walking away is a good option too. Whatever it is will pop again.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 13, 2002, 4:46 pm

IMO
if they give you a time, and don't meet it. They're done.

BUT that's just my opinion.

That said I would probably try to be nice, just because I'm a nice asshole like that. In other words. They beat you there, let them have their fun. If it's still there when they're done, go kill.

Fynris · Post by **Fynris** » September 13, 2002, 4:52 pm

They had already agreed on 10 minutes... we ended up waiting 30+ minutes... we tried to stay out of their way as much as possible... they made their attempt and failed... we went in after and were successful.

The thing that bothered me is that it just seemed like they were stalling us, claiming CR, then setting up mob, then this that or the other. I want to make sure that I was allowing for enough time and not being too pushy.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 13, 2002, 4:52 pm

Normally when I am leading a raid and this sort of situation happens, I find out who the raid leader is.

Send them a tell - Depending on if I know them... Usually if I don't know them it's something like - Don't freak out, we would like to try this mob.

I rarely tell someone an amount of time - I don't like the feeling of when my guild is pushed into a fight - people usually get nervous and stupid mistakes are made. So I try to allow them the time they need. If they are CRing - normally I ask some of our clerics to go over to them, stick them, and MGB just to speed things up, hehe. I like to give people a fair shot at a mob and not have people feeling bad about what has happened.

However - to answer your question 15-20 minutes is normally standard OR you could just speed them up not hassle them and have them good to go in 10.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 13, 2002, 4:52 pm

you leave and do something else until they are done. grow up and let them have their fucking fun. eq is filled with greedy fucking wankers who pull off shit like this because their tiny brains can't comprehend turning the fucking game off and doing something else if what they want to do is already being done. christ almighty it's just a game and you are sitting on a msgboard debating fake rules that don't even exist. look at yourself.

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » September 13, 2002, 4:56 pm

kyoukan, do you need a hug? Come here kyou...

<HUGS>

There, now doesn't that feel better?

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » September 13, 2002, 5:06 pm

So what happened? You gave them 2nd shot, or gave them 30 mins and you killed mob?
The fact that you are actually worried if you were fair or not by not rolling them from the get go should answer your question on fairness.
If it were me, id probably base it on the mob and the guild. If it is a lower guild trying a new mob out, Id let them try a few times and Id just leave and let them have at it..just maybe ask their leader to tell you when they finish and if they won/lost. If its a higher end guild that probably dont need it and is just screwing off, id go for 15mins, if they failed Id probably tell them we plan to move in.

Fynris · Post by **Fynris** » September 13, 2002, 5:41 pm

Thanks for the info gang... really helped... I appreciate your thoughts.

/em gives kyoukan a big polar bear hug... licks him on the face... even you too

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » September 13, 2002, 6:10 pm

Fuck that. If they died, its fair game. Your ready and they are CRing. Tough shit.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » September 13, 2002, 7:04 pm

The BEST answer in this situation would be to just fucking leave them alone and do something else with your "friends".

Is EQ still a game? If it's a game and you act like this, then the next time you are out on the basketball court trying to practice your layups...

I'll make damn sure bring in a squad of 7 foot roughnecks and just tell you, "dude you fucking SUCK, get the FUCK off our court", then just commence to pounding several ""in your FACE"" slam dunks all over your wannabe candy ass!!!!

See the similarities? Would you ever actually DO THAT to someone that is already on the court? No, you would just find something else to do... fucking apply some of the same ethics to this "game" you play and maybe, just maybe it would be a more enjoyable, less cut throat experience for all.

But... But.. nah this is all about ME! MY GUILD... MY EQ! Fuck'em all.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 13, 2002, 7:17 pm

Xanupox wrote:The BEST answer in this situation would be to just fucking leave them alone and do something else with your "friends".

Is EQ still a game? If it's a game and you act like this, then the next time you are out on the basketball court trying to practice your layups...

I'll make damn sure bring in a squad of 7 foot roughnecks and just tell you, "dude you fucking SUCK, get the FUCK off our court", then just commence to pounding several ""in your FACE"" slam dunks all over your wannabe candy ass!!!!

See the similarities? Would you ever actually DO THAT to someone that is already on the court? No, you would just find something else to do... fucking apply some of the same ethics to this "game" you play and maybe, just maybe it would be a more enjoyable, less cut throat experience for all.

But... But.. nah this is all about ME! MY GUILD... MY EQ! Fuck'em all.

I think the pot is fucking the kettle... or something.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 13, 2002, 8:41 pm

Hmm who is posting as Xanupox?

......or forcefeeding him lithium

Real Xan was all about supporting his own guild

Thess · Post by **Thess** » September 13, 2002, 8:50 pm

Wasn't me Kylere - but this Xan does scare me. A lot.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » September 13, 2002, 8:59 pm

I do not play EQ anymore, I let go, well beyond when I should have.

A LOT of you, it seems should as well.

Is it a game for you still, or is it (EQ) your lives!?!?!?!

Oh Kyle, it is me.. yes I always supported my own guild.. perhaps too much at times, well, rather most of the time. EQ failed as the game it was designed for and was warped into the game you all still play to this day. It CAN be entertaining, but the majority of the time it is not. The stress factor that the current EQ environment generates far exceeds the tolerable standards for most of the gaming population, the common citizens of gaming if you will. Thus defeating the purpose of the "game" itself.

A game is an avenue of enjoyment just another way to get out of reality, a sport or a hobby... when it begins to consume is when you will have a problem, it is when you need to end that portion of your life and move on.

I moved on

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 13, 2002, 9:01 pm

Then move on out of here if you're so over things. Course, that's if you're one to believe that spiel.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » September 13, 2002, 9:09 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Then move on out of here if you're so over things. Course, that's if you're one to believe that spiel.

I am past the gaming portion of EQ, however this board still entertains me when I have some free time. I think we all agree here that this "board" is not an EQ related board, its a community that of which a majority are past and present EQ gamers. However the topic is hardly that of just "active EQ hacks and strats!"

Dregor I do admire though your ambition, perhaps this does not apply to you at all, it was mostly for those out there that "felt" the message hit home.

-Xanupox, serving the citizens of the gaming world with unwanted and unsolicited speeches on topics that they do not want to acknowledge!

Omniz · Post by **Omniz** » September 13, 2002, 9:56 pm

I've never played a game that is more like a job than a game, but that's exactly what EQ is. You can't do any of the cool stuff unless your 60. Now it's even worse. You can't do any of the cool stuff unless your 60 and have 30 aa points.

EQ was fun all the way thru Velious to me. Once Luclin and AA points hit it became to much for me. I mean staying awake for 6 am NTOV raids when you have to go to work in 1 hour with no sleep was bad enough. But having to garner AA points put me over the edge.

I enjoyed the company of my guildmates more than anything the game itself had to offer. I guess thats why I still troll these and PD's boards. For those that have the stamina to keep going I salute you, but, I already have one job don't need another. =)

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » September 13, 2002, 10:28 pm

It CAN be entertaining, but the majority of the time it is not. The stress factor that the current EQ environment generates far exceeds the tolerable standards for most of the gaming population, the common citizens of gaming if you will. Thus defeating the purpose of the "game" itself.

Hopefully, this will be fixed somewhat with PoP with the virtual raid rooms, or whatever VI calling them. I've been having more fun doing tradeskills than my 3rd NToV raid because I don't have someone breathing down my neck while standing at the brew barrel.

Xanupox · Post by **Xanupox** » September 14, 2002, 1:39 am

http://www.larp.com/neroatl/pics/battle.mpg

I think these guys were first in force, just remember the next time you steam roll someone... they may come get you.. are you prepared????

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 14, 2002, 3:50 am

could you be any more full of shit?

thanks for the funny movie though.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » September 14, 2002, 3:56 am

God, I hope that movie doesn't find its way into a time capsule.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 14, 2002, 4:03 am

There is a better one.. I will try and find it.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 14, 2002, 4:06 am

aha

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/raspberry ... attle.mpeg

OH MY FUCKING GOD THE HUMANITY

hey, is that kwonryu?

Niding · Post by **Niding** » September 14, 2002, 5:20 am

Hehe it sure isnt..
The ogres stood up too long for that =).

Ninan · Post by **Ninan** » September 14, 2002, 12:20 pm

Well Raistin said it best from what we all know to be oldschool mentality. The newer generation people seem to be getting along and less concerned about who is doing what.

Guilds today are getting along better and not doing the stupid shit they did in the past. Most of the flames now are on a 1 on 1 scam dealing and no guild vs guild flamefests of old.

I miss those flames I must admit. Hey, I just noticed something here on the timeline. Does anyone else notice that Xan left about the time the new play nice and get along philosophy came about? Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Searyx · Post by **Searyx** » September 14, 2002, 12:32 pm

I love how at the end they all look confused because everyone is standing. They all wanted to be the hero, and the hero never falls down

Skunki · Post by **Skunki** » September 14, 2002, 1:20 pm

. EQ failed as the game it was designed for and was warped into the game you all still play to this day.

LOL the game was warped becuase of people who think and act like you!.."HI i dont play anymore, but i want to lecture you all on "Ethics" in eq!" Lol thats hilarious coming from Xanupox.

Katria · Post by **Katria** » September 14, 2002, 5:01 pm

Someone's working on something, it's taken. Move along and find something else to do. Who are you to decide how many attempts they're allowed to get at something?

They beat you, get lost.

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » September 14, 2002, 6:24 pm

I got this CRAZY idea!

If you feel like killing something do it! Don't wait! Haha that'd cause some problems. If you wanna play the roleplaying side, say you are doing it because it is the betterment for Norrath and not KSing

Hey I tried. Yeah it is still fucked up but damn if this was like...real then people would go and kill the tyrant whether or not someone else was there...but then again this isn't real so have fun k bye.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 15, 2002, 1:32 am

Joramile wrote:I got this CRAZY idea!

If you feel like killing something do it! Don't wait! Haha that'd cause some problems. If you wanna play the roleplaying side, say you are doing it because it is the betterment for Norrath and not KSing Hey I tried. Yeah it is still fucked up but damn if this was like...real then people would go and kill the tyrant whether or not someone else was there...but then again this isn't real so have fun k bye.

was that english?

help?

Carnon · Post by **Carnon** » September 15, 2002, 2:25 am

While on this subject, I would like to thank Ninan for his bevavior today in ThurgB. He asked to tag along for faction on Dain and i said "sure". he got faction from first kill and then we used 8th Shawl to span another Dain. Well 2nd dain was 425 and Dual weilding Hammers. We all knew that this mob was going to be tough, and we even wiped out the first time. at This point Ninan left for another raid with his own guild CT. he sent me a tell a few minutes later asking me to let him know if we were going to leave Dain alone if he was out of our range. He was in no way insulting our capabilities and put 0 pressure on us to kill the mob in any amount of time. As a matter of fact it probably releived a small bit of pressure. we knew we didnt have to worry about anyone coming to fuck with what was a productive day for us.

We wound up winning on our next pull, But had we decided to leave Dain up I can assure you I would have had no hesitation in tellling Ninan and CT to come kill the mob and even helping them out a little if they could have used me.

I have never been a big fan of CT as a guild, but Thess and the rest of the officers over there must being doing something right. Thank you again Ninan for restoring at leats a little of my faith in the general EQ playing population.

Joramile · Post by **Joramile** » September 15, 2002, 4:54 am

Truant wrote:
was that english?

help?

Yes, it is English. Uhh...if you mean its not like "perfect English" that's because I like to type how I like. And yeah try reading it again i'm like 100 percent sure it is English. Unless I actually did learn something in french then yeah then English it is since that's the only language I know.

Uhh...yeah.

Ninan · Post by **Ninan** » September 15, 2002, 4:58 am

Thanks for the kind words Carnon. I wasn't there to spy, I was there as I told you to faction and I did thanks to your generosity.

CT now has become a top shelf guild always taking the Hi road. When I left Dain today we had a call to arms Tormax popped. Well CT was incoming in full force as well as CD/CoE both arriving pretty much the same time. The leaders got to gether and simply decided to random 0 300 hi wins. We were fortunate to have won the roll, but CD/CoE was pure class in the bad luck of the draw. They withdrew and went elsewhere and wished us good luck as we would have also done if the tables were turned.

CT is lucky to have Thess, Zairus, and Toshira plus all the other officers leading them down the correct path.

This behavior is more common place now then ever before. I often scratch my head and ask, what happened? Did all the assholes up and leave the game? Then it hit me, hell yes they came to Veeshanvault. ...)OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS more fun not to be fighting all the damn time and actually enjoy your playtime. Damn shame...)

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 15, 2002, 5:16 am

You people are all pussies!

Get some balls and steamroll.

I come to flamevault to read this shit? Change the name from flamevault to Barneyville, cause that's what it's becoming.

fucking communists.

Carnon · Post by **Carnon** » September 15, 2002, 11:46 am

I never thought you were spying Ninan. It did cross my mind to mess with you and Fluidru a little though. After Thess made me camp out repeatedly then even wait at zone for the pull last time i tagged a CT Dain. But i decided against it. oh yeah Zairus, Toshira, any others i missed....no disrespect but Thess is the only CT officer i know. Old friends even if she wont admit it anymore.

Ocelott · Post by **Ocelott** » September 19, 2002, 11:57 am

I think if a guild is moving on a mob and clearing for it. Back off and give them a shot at it.

Example:

Guild1 is clearing down to Trak. No one is in front of them and Trak is up. Guild2 follows guild1 all the way down letting guild1 clear.
guild1 has over 20 in zone and can take Trak in under 15 seconds with force in zone. <no big deal>
At the fake wall just past Juggs guild 1 has LD peeps. While guild1 waits for LDs. THey CoH peeps to join in the fun.
At this point guild2 decides to steamroll and rush Trak. Guild2 gets LDs back online and moves in after guild2.
Guild2 engages Trak and guild1 manaburns his ass to get the kill.

Guild2 steamrolled guild1 - then guild1 returned the favor.

What do yall think?

Did guild1 KS guild2? or did guild2 have a failed steamroll on guild1?

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 19, 2002, 11:58 am

Failed roll, isle 2.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » September 19, 2002, 12:14 pm

/agree Akaran

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 19, 2002, 12:16 pm

Ocelott for you example, guild 1 had the claim.

walking behind somebody while they do all the clearing does not put you on an even playing field when you are at the dragon's lair.

but i've seen people do it. and one of the guys even said something to the effect we hit "dragon x" first, so it is ours, like it is some kind of hall pop froglok jin ballwasher.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 19, 2002, 1:03 pm

Are you absolutely shitting me? The play nice rules were instated because of people like Furor and Xanupox. I would go so far as to say that those 2 people alone were responsible for Verant's GMs to come up with many of their rules for dealing with guilds. The hypocrisy I just saw on this thread almost made me ill. Did you actually come up with a conscience or just spouting bullshit again? How much do you pay for a conscience on e-bay anyway?

castwell · Post by **castwell** » September 19, 2002, 5:33 pm

Actually, in the incedent that prompted Fynris to make this post is the first place, it wasnt a guild that was there. It was 2 people quad-boxing.

In some cases that may have been plenty to constitute "First in Force". In this case (IMO) given the mob and the fact that they had wiped twice (that we know of) within seconds, it was not.

Even so, they were still given 30+ min to to make the second attempt. Some people might like to criticize was was done, but they were there first and were allowed to make their attempt even though I would have considered it insane to try what they did. Fynris was more than genorous with them.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 19, 2002, 10:17 pm

NOBODY CARES

VeeshanVault

First in Force

First in Force

!

~

Thanks

The best answer

Re: The best answer

!

First off

yeah well.

EQ is a fucking job.

I think these guys were First in....