Halliburton's "price gouging"

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Halliburton's "price gouging"

Post by Brotha »

This story would never have even been reported had it not been for the company's name that was accused of the overpricing- Halliburton. The amount of Halliburton-phobia out there is ridiculous, and I'm sure some people here, after seeing the headline "Halliburton Overcharges 61 million dollars," jumped on this story as more evidence of corruption regarding Halliburton, Cheney, the war in Iraq, etc, without even bothering to read into it.

Basically they were paying more for gasoline from Kuwait than they could have been paying for gasoline from Turkey- that's what all the fuss has been about. Everyone admits that Halliburton wasn't the one pocketing this money (except perhaps for a few cents on the dollar), but somehow people still seem to think Halliburton is "stealing" our tax dollars.

Here's an interesting piece from NRO regarding this latest development in Halliburton's plot take over the world and steal everyone's oil:

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200312190859.asp
New details are emerging that suggest the energy giant Halliburton did not overcharge the Defense Department for fuel in Iraq — contrary to the claims of critics in Congress and in the field of Democratic presidential candidates.

The Pentagon is investigating allegations that Halliburton overcharged it by $61 million for gasoline and other fuels delivered to Iraq. Halliburton delivered gasoline to Iraq from Kuwait at a price of $2.27 per gallon, while it delivered gas from Turkey for $1.18 per gallon.

The obvious question raised by the discrepancy was: Why would Halliburton deliver high-priced fuel from Kuwait when it could be obtained at a much lower price from Turkey?

The company says it did so because the Army demanded that it deliver fuel from Kuwait. "The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said to find a fuel source in Kuwait," Halliburton said in a press release yesterday. "[Halliburton] sought and received bids from four suppliers in Kuwait. One met the Corps' specification, and that is the one the Corps approved."

But why did the Corps specify that fuel be delivered from Kuwait? The answer appears to lie with the nature of fuel shortages that swept Iraq in the late spring. After the war, the country's oil refineries were operating far below capacity. Both gasoline and liquefied petroleum gas, which millions of Iraqis use for cooking, were in very short supply.

American officials feared that the shortages might spark civil unrest. Of particular concern was Basra, the city in southern Iraq that had seen increasingly violent expressions of popular anger against coalition forces. According to a source in the Corps of Engineers, in May, Lt. General Ricardo Sanchez, leader of American forces in Iraq, demanded that fuel be supplied to Basra — fast.

"The initial import of fuel was in response to a request from General Sanchez to do this because there was an uprising in Basra over the lack of gas and cooking fuel," says the Corps source. "Basra is near the Kuwaiti border. The fastest way to get it there is Kuwait. So we directed them [Halliburton] to do that."

"Basra was a flash point; we were close to civil unrest," the source continues. "Probably at the time we didn't care what it cost, because we were trying to stop a riot. Cost was probably not an issue."

But the rest of Iraq was suffering from fuel shortages as well. On May 8, in an article headlined, "Angry Iraqis Blame U.S. for Fuel Shortage," the Washington Post reported on a "ubiquitous scene" in Iraq: "lines that stretch toward dusty horizons as people wait for gasoline, a problem that confronts U.S. authorities with both a complex engineering challenge and a continuing threat to their prestige."

Soon the U.S. military was ordering fuel shipments to the rest of Iraq as well. While the Kuwaiti source is relatively close to Basra, it is a great distance from northern Iraq, which made for very long shipping lines. And the violent insurgency then beginning inside Iraq made the work not only expensive but also dangerous for the crews hired by Halliburton to deliver the fuel.

"Not many people want to drive eight to fifteen days through a war zone with a truck full of flammable materials," the company says. "Three drivers have been killed and many others injured while performing this mission, and 60 vehicles have been damaged."

As a result, Halliburton officials say they came up with the idea of arranging for another fuel source in Turkey. "[Halliburton] initiated the idea to source fuel from Turkey," the company says. [Halliburton] presented this idea to its customer, and because of this, saved taxpayers well over $100 million."

Since that time, fuel has come into Iraq from both sources. According to both the Corps and Halliburton, neither country can, on its own, provide the amount of fuel needed inside Iraq.

So far, Halliburton says, about two-thirds of the fuel delivered to Iraq has come from Turkey, at the lower price, and about one-third has come from Kuwait, at the higher price. Given those proportions, Halliburton says the average fuel cost from both Turkey and Kuwait has been $1.60 per gallon, "well within what auditors think it should be."

Although Halliburton's actions have been intensely criticized by the administration's opponents, the Pentagon says it has not found any wrongdoing. Said Defense Department comptroller Dov Zakheim on Tuesday, "From what I've seen so far...I have no basis whatsoever to see anything nefarious."
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Post by kyoukan »

If you actually believe that Halliburton wasn't gouging your tax dollars to make a profit than you are on acid. They could have imported gasoline from Venus for less per gallon. They already admitted to the overcharge and promised congress that they would pay it back, but never fear, here comes brotha with another national review article!

You realize that you are being a shameless apologist for a corporation that would rape and murder your entire family if it made them a dollar, right?
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Post by Truant »

I might bother to read it, and consider your point, if you weren't Brotha.
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Post by Siji »

Funny how this story has gone relatively quiet since Saddam was caught.
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Post by Skogen »

I started to read the story, and was thinking "wtf is this shit?" then saw that it came from the national review. Then I stopped reading.
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Post by Voronwë »

Halliburton is saying the Army Corps of Engineers made them go with the specific Kuwaiti supplier and tried to suggest cheaper alternatives. this much is consistent with Brotha's article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/politics/20OIL.html
PENTAGON INQUIRY
Halliburton Says It Saved U.S. Oil Money
By TIMOTHY L. O'BRIEN

Published: December 20, 2003



The Halliburton Company, which has come under scrutiny from Pentagon auditors for the high price of the fuel it imported from Kuwait to Iraq, said this week that it had saved the government money by using multiple suppliers of fuel for Iraq.

Pentagon auditors issued a draft report last week saying Halliburton's Kellogg Brown & Root subsidiary overcharged the United States government by as much as $61 million for fuel supplies in Iraq. The Houston-based oil services company has a contract with the Army Corps of Engineers to restore Iraq's oil infrastructure. Part of that contract involves importing gasoline and other fuels to Iraq.

Halliburton officials noted that the government required it to import some relatively expensive Kuwaiti fuel into Iraq, but that it saved taxpayers $164 million by importing most of the fuel from Turkey.

Halliburton posted a response to the Pentagon audit on its corporate Web site, saying the Army Corps of Engineers required KBR to use a Kuwaiti supplier and approved the deal KBR struck with that supplier, the Altanmia Commercial Marketing Company. Halliburton said three other potential Kuwaiti suppliers it had considered failed to meet government specifications. In addition, the company said it originally suggested that the government use Turkish suppliers.

A Pentagon spokeswoman said Friday that the agency had received and was evaluating Halliburton's response to its auditors' queries. She declined to comment further.

Halliburton said about one-third of the fuel KBR imports to Iraq comes from Kuwait while the remainder comes from Turkey. The company said the average cost for fuel from Turkey and Kuwait was $1.60 per gallon, which it said was inside Pentagon auditors' guidelines. But Pentagon documents say the government pays KBR an average of $2.64 per gallon for Kuwaiti fuel, twice as much as other importers pay.

A spokeswoman for Halliburton, Wendy Hall, said Turkish fuel costs about $1.18 a gallon, and since it represents the majority of the fuel KBR imports, it brings the average fuel cost down to $1.60 per gallon.

"We believe our response proves KBR delivered fuel to Iraq at the best value, the best price and the best terms," Randy Harl, Kellogg Brown & Root's chief executive, said in a press release on Thursday. Halliburton said that because of the danger the work presents to its employees it has repeatedly but unsuccessfully tried to transfer the fuel supply contract to a local company in Iraq.

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, a Democratic presidential candidate, said Thursday that his staff was told by a Pentagon official that an internal Halliburton audit had warned of possible overcharges by a Kuwaiti supplier before the issue was raised by Pentagon auditors.

Ms. Hall, the Halliburton spokeswoman, disputed that account in a statement. "The confidential issues identified in the company's internal evaluation did not warn or say that there were excessive fuel prices and did not identify any violation of government contracting regulations," she said.



what is curious to me though is if the Army condoned the choice of the Kuwaiti supplier at that price, then why is the Pentagon currently investingating Halliburton of price gouging. Incidentally, Halliburton is refusing to supply the Pentagon with certain documents pertaining to this investigation that the DoD has requested.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

heh,

This reminds me of the Clinton days when conservatives were looking for conspiracies in everything he did.

Funny enough, the roles are now reversed and now liberals try to interpret anything they can as a conspiracy.
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Post by Siji »

Adex_Xeda wrote:heh,

This reminds me of the Clinton days when conservatives were looking for conspiracies in everything he did.

Funny enough, the roles are now reversed and now liberals try to interpret anything they can as a conspiracy.
I'd much rather find out that Bush fucked a Lewinsky than fucked the country.
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Post by Zaelath »

Adex_Xeda wrote:heh,

This reminds me of the Clinton days when conservatives were looking for conspiracies in everything he did.

Funny enough, the roles are now reversed and now liberals try to interpret anything they can as a conspiracy.
People that think nothing is a consipracy are just as foolish as those that think everything is.
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Post by kyoukan »

Adex_Xeda wrote:heh,

This reminds me of the Clinton days when conservatives were looking for conspiracies in everything he did.

Funny enough, the roles are now reversed and now liberals try to interpret anything they can as a conspiracy.
Are you equating possible shady real estate deals and getting your knob polished in the oval office with illegally invading a sovereign nation for the specific purpose of allowing your cronies in the private sector to financially profit from the resulting blood and carnage at the expense of taxpayers?

President Bush and his cabinet are RIPPING YOU OFF. They are STEALING FROM YOU, but you people are so fucking partisan that you will allow it as long as "your team" is sitting in the oval office.
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Post by Brotha »

Voronwe wrote:what is curious to me though is if the Army condoned the choice of the Kuwaiti supplier at that price, then why is the Pentagon currently investingating Halliburton of price gouging. Incidentally, Halliburton is refusing to supply the Pentagon with certain documents pertaining to this investigation that the DoD has requested
I'm saying that even if Halliburton did overprice, the money didn't go to them (as any news article will say) so they certainly didn't "steal" it as so many people assumed after reading the headlines. Furthermore, they will be the ones paying it back, even though they didn't really profit from it, so it wouldn't make much sense for them to purposely do this.
kyoukan wrote:Are you equating possible shady real estate deals and getting your knob polished in the oval office with illegally invading a sovereign nation for the specific purpose of allowing your cronies in the private sector to financially profit from the resulting blood and carnage at the expense of taxpayers?

President Bush and his cabinet are RIPPING YOU OFF. They are STEALING FROM YOU, but you people are so fucking partisan that you will allow it as long as "your team" is sitting in the oval office.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. While I'd like to believe that no American could possibly be this out of touch with reality, I'm sure there are many people in the US who believe as kyoukan does. They actually believe that Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq for the "specific purpose" of helping Halliburton (and his other "oil buddies") make more money.

Adex, I don't think any conspiracy theories I heard when Clinton was in office even came close to this.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

hypocrites,


I wasn't refering to the president's perjury.

I was thinking about the time Clinton OKed Loral's request to give China security-protected rocket guidance technology to launch their satilites. The other side effect was the very same technology gave China a method to deliver their nukes over an ocean such as the Pacific.

Or remember the *conspiracy* that Clinton jumped into a war with Bosnia to turn attention away from his impeachment? Wag the Dog anyone?

There was all types of junk floating about back then.

Funny thing considering Loral was one of Clinton's top campaign contributers.

Point is, information is out there. To go running off a cliff with half assed conspiracies shows a willingness to distort the truth to support your politics.

Both sides are guilty of this, I find it pecular to witness the flip side in action.
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Post by kyoukan »

Selling rocket guidance technology to an ally is wrong? Someone let Israel know that?

You know that the guidance systems sold absolutely cannot be used effectively in a missile, right?
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

The technology that puts a satellite in orbit, is the very same stuff that puts a nuke in orbit as it transitions over to its target.

Besides, I'm not here to support crazy conspiracies.

There are some fishy things between Mr. Cheney's finances and Haliburton.

But this somehow establishes Haliburton as a big evil corporation trying to rip everyone off?

That is a stretch.

The above articles show that Haliburton was dealing with a politcially complicated burden. They did what they could to handle the requirements given them.

Did they see an opportunity to exploit a loophole? Maybe, but after doing large amounts of business with the federal government since even WWII, I doubt they'd risk their good reputation with the government to exploit it. It might cost them multi-billion dollar contracts later on.

It doesn't make sense from a business point of view; and this perspective is the foundation of the *evil corporation* theory.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

BTW,

I do feel this is worth investigating.
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Post by Chidoro »

The only problem I see w/ democrats is that they aren't as good at smearing. They need to come up with a catchy title so that noone will be able to overlook it. Haliburton obviously has one too many syllables for the public to comprehend. If they can shorten it to three, we'll have something.

This thing stinks of holy hell. Obvious gouging is going on, obvious project bidding preference took place, and this is obviously because Cheney is in a position to pull some strings of this nature.

Reagan lied before everyone w/ regards to the Iran Contra hearings Adex, so don't even have the gall to cite perjury about getting a fucking blowjob. What's going on today is far worse than any kind of bullshit you can drag up w/ regards to ferreting out oppresive dictators (far more than Saddam per person)

Lastly, Brotha has got to be the biggest twit to ever learn the fine art of copy/paste.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

Seems equitible to me,

One conspiracy theory says a US president jumped into the Bosian war to divert attention away from his breaking the law.

vs.

another conspiracy that says a president invaded Iraq to pad his wallet.

Sometimes you can get so wrapped up in your ideology that you blind yourself to disagreeable elements of the truth.

I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest with guys, I simply offer a thought for consideration.
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Post by kyoukan »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Seems equitible to me,

One conspiracy theory says a US president jumped into the Bosian war to divert attention away from his breaking the law.
So now Clinton convinced the entire UN Security Council to take military action on Milosovic's genocidal army in order to cover up the fact he got sucked off by an intern? You buy that but will not believe for a moment that a soulless corporation run by people in your political party are not gouging taxpayer money despite hard evidence put right down in front of your face?

I swear I have no idea why people even argue with you. You are a complete and total lost cause.
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Post by Skogen »

Adex_Xeda wrote:hypocrites,


I wasn't refering to the president's perjury.

I was thinking about the time Clinton OKed Loral's request to give China security-protected rocket guidance technology to launch their satilites. The other side effect was the very same technology gave China a method to deliver their nukes over an ocean such as the Pacific.

Or remember the *conspiracy* that Clinton jumped into a war with Bosnia to turn attention away from his impeachment? Wag the Dog anyone?

There was all types of junk floating about back then.

Funny thing considering Loral was one of Clinton's top campaign contributers.

Point is, information is out there. To go running off a cliff with half assed conspiracies shows a willingness to distort the truth to support your politics.

Both sides are guilty of this, I find it pecular to witness the flip side in action.
hehe...I worked for Loral when this whole scandal occured. It's pretty laughable actually...the "top secrets" we gave them were wire harness crimp and termination work instructs & proceedures, cable connector specifications, material specs for the above, and other installation specs.The real funny part is I wrote a lot of that shit myself!!
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Post by kyoukan »

Skogen wrote:hehe...I worked for Loral when this whole scandal occured. It's pretty laughable actually...the "top secrets" we gave them were wire harness crimp and termination work instructs & proceedures, cable connector specifications, material specs for the above, and other installation specs.The real funny part is I wrote a lot of that shit myself!!
You realize now there are thousands of chinese nuclear weapons pointed at the homeland because of your actions? How can you fucking liberals worry about Halliburton when your very lives are in danger because of Clinton?
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Post by Skogen »

kyoukan wrote:
Skogen wrote:hehe...I worked for Loral when this whole scandal occured. It's pretty laughable actually...the "top secrets" we gave them were wire harness crimp and termination work instructs & proceedures, cable connector specifications, material specs for the above, and other installation specs.The real funny part is I wrote a lot of that shit myself!!
You realize now there are thousands of chinese nuclear weapons pointed at the homeland because of your actions? How can you fucking liberals worry about Halliburton when your very lives are in danger because of Clinton?
I sit at home alone everynight, with a bottle of vodka, wishing I had done differently. I should shoot myself in the fucking head.
Seriously, when I first heard what these "secrets" were I couldn't believe it. Too fuckin funny! And the great part it that Loral has nothing to do with booster guidance at all. period. Any "intellectual" property we gave them other than what I mentioned above was merely to interfact our satellite with there booster, and getting the fucking thing in orbit. Even better is we gave this same shit to the Russians before this whole Chinese thing came up...and Loral STILL is as well!
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Post by Chidoro »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Seems equitible to me,
It's not
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

I'm glad you think those conservative conspiracy theories are nutty. Use that perspective to weigh the crazy stuff you're trying to sell right now about Haliburton.

Kyo, you consistantly miss or choose to ignore the point.

*sigh*

Let me try one more time.

You sound nutty when you passionately champion these conspiracy theories. You remind me of some Clinton haters from the past.

Ah brevity is refreshing.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

kyoukan wrote: .....You buy that but will not believe for a moment that a soulless corporation run by people in your political party are not gouging taxpayer money despite hard evidence put right down in front of your face?

I swear I have no idea why people even argue with you. You are a complete and total lost cause.
Kyo perhaps you're having a hard time discussing things with me because you don't actually bother to READ what I say.

Note what I said before you posted.
Adex_Xeda wrote:BTW,

I do feel this is worth investigating.
As in YES let's investigate! I don't blindly trust that Haliburton was innocent, and I don't belive in your X-file's theories either.

Relax, let the investigation take it's course before running of the cliff with the Big Evil Corporation stuff.
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Post by Chidoro »

You can think you're taking the perceived "high-road", still doesn't equate what you're trying to equate
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

I never took any high road.

I simply refused to jump off the cliff.
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Post by Chidoro »

Which cliff, the one of reason?
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

hmm, must respond in less than five words.... DOH!
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Post by Chidoro »

Keep shooting there sparky
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Post by Dalmoth »

Playing devil's advocate here,

What coporation in the ENTIRE world WOULDN'T get every single penny they thought they could get from their consumers.

Answer = Zero.

Corporations are in business to MAKE MONEY, A LOT OF IT. They don't really care who it comes from as long as it is coming in, welcome to capitalism 101. Mom and Pop stores may behave the way you would like them to, caring about their customers, but this is not how anything beyond 10 employess operates in any country I've been able to visit.

This theory that a company should do what is in the best interest of the consumer is a load of communist bullshit. Its not what they are designed to do, they are designed to bilk the consumer of their funds while providing enough service/product to keep the consumer coming back. That is ALL the producer is looking to do in most business deals.
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Post by Voronwë »

sure you can try to rip off your customer if you want.

its a great short term strategy. but that is about it, because most corporations depend on fostering long term business relationships to secure revenue sources, especially those that repeatedly contract with the government.
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Post by Chidoro »

Dalmoth wrote: Mom and Pop stores may behave the way you would like them to, caring about their customers, but this is not how anything beyond 10 employess operates in any country I've been able to visit.

This theory that a company should do what is in the best interest of the consumer is a load of communist bullshit.
That's bullshit. Companies that foster long term relationships on a large scale end up being better off in the long run. Typical means to do this is by maintaining solid customer service.
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Post by kyoukan »

You don't have to be honest if your former and future CEO is the vice president of the united states. Rip off everyone as much as possible until you get caught and then just use a small fraction of what you stole to bribe your way back into the next contract.
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Post by Zaelath »

Dalmoth wrote:Playing devil's advocate here,

What coporation in the ENTIRE world WOULDN'T get every single penny they thought they could get from their consumers.

Answer = Zero.

Corporations are in business to MAKE MONEY, A LOT OF IT. They don't really care who it comes from as long as it is coming in, welcome to capitalism 101. Mom and Pop stores may behave the way you would like them to, caring about their customers, but this is not how anything beyond 10 employess operates in any country I've been able to visit.

This theory that a company should do what is in the best interest of the consumer is a load of communist bullshit. Its not what they are designed to do, they are designed to bilk the consumer of their funds while providing enough service/product to keep the consumer coming back. That is ALL the producer is looking to do in most business deals.
This soulless corporate ethos is completely anti-christian, you satan worshipping kiddy fiddler.

There's a difference between market price, a fair price, and best price.

If you really support your bullshit line of reasoning I hope, a) They develop a cure for cancer, quick clean and efficient. b) They sell this cure for $1,000,000 per dose despite it's manufacturing cost of $0.20. c) you and all your children get ass cancer.
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Post by Truant »

Adex_Xeda wrote:Kyo, you consistantly miss or choose to ignore the point.
Funny, on nearly every thread I feel that YOU constantly miss or ignore the point.
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Post by masteen »

kyoukan wrote:You don't have to be honest if your former and future CEO is the vice president of the united states. Rip off everyone as much as possible until you get caught and then just use a small fraction of what you stole to bribe your way back into the next contract.
Gee, sounds exactly like what Clinton's cronies did. Don't forget the sweet Presidential pardon that's coming near the end of term 2!
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Post by kyoukan »

Examples of Clinton's pork barrel spending and illegal invasions of foreign countries in order to make his family and his cronies even wealthier to the point of putting the USA into a multi trillion dollar deficit now officially required for this thread.
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Post by Raistin »

They sold some land in the middle of some state. BURN them!
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Post by Sueven »

(except perhaps for a few cents on the dollar)
Calculator says:

.02 * 61,000,000 = 1,220,000.
the money didn't go to them
Sure, except for, oh, more than a million dollars.

Jesus. You conservative blockheads will shriek and shriek about cutting costs and shrinking spending (even though your president continues to blatantly do the exact opposite as you laud him as a hero, but that's another post) and then ignore things like this.

Guess what: That's 61 million dollars taken from the United States. And over a million dollars to Halliburton as a gift from the taxpayers.

Yeah, conservatives sure do champion fiscal responsibility!
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Post by Brotha »

Truant wrote:I might bother to read it, and consider your point, if you weren't Brotha.
Truant wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:Kyo, you consistantly miss or choose to ignore the point.
Funny, on nearly every thread I feel that YOU constantly miss or ignore the point.
You haven't even expressed your opinion regarding the topic of this thread, much less made a point. But by all means, keep directing these inane one line flames at those who have if it makes you feel like you somehow are.
kyoukan wrote:You don't have to be honest if your former and future CEO is the vice president of the united states. Rip off everyone as much as possible until you get caught and then just use a small fraction of what you stole to bribe your way back into the next contract.
Other than the fact that Cheney happens to be the former head of Halliburton, do you have any proof of backroom dealings for no bid contracts, deception, or corruption regarding Halliburton?

Seriously, post whatever kind of evidence you have and I'll read every word it.
Sueven wrote:Sure, except for, oh, more than a million dollars.
So you think Halliburton would risk their reputation and possible future contracts worth billions for a million bucks? Gimme a break, this is chump change. And no, I'm not saying that it should be excused because it is "only" a million dollars.
Sueven wrote:Jesus. You conservative blockheads will shriek and shriek about cutting costs and shrinking spending (even though your president continues to blatantly do the exact opposite as you laud him as a hero, but that's another post) and then ignore things like this.
If the Pentagon decides that Halliburton did in fact overcharge for the gas, they should pay every dime of it back. I never said otherwise.
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Post by Zamtuk »

It's pretty ironic that the US argued with OPEC for months about the price of gas, only to have the people argue with the US about the price.
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Post by miir »

Brotha, National Review is not a credible news source.
Quoting them as a basis for your opinion is pretty embarrasing.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

this thread owns :)
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Post by Pahreyia »

miir wrote:Brotha, National Review is not a credible news source.
Quoting them as a basis for your opinion is pretty embarrasing.
Normally I agree, but I haven't been able to find another credible news source that has nearly as comprehensive look at Haliburton. The "Liberal" media sites are all brushing over the topic, quoting that this price audit showed that the Pentagon was overcharged but lauding it in a way that made it sound akin to gospel.

I still don't read anything from NR without a fairly large grain of salt... I just haven't seen anyone take more than a cursory look at why oil was priced the way it was without some reporter screaming Enron like it's going to win him or her a Pulitzer.
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Post by miir »

Well, I actually took a minute to read that 'article'.

I find it interesting that the crux of the argument is based on general geographical ignorance of Iraq and the surrounding countries.
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Post by Brotha »

miir wrote:I find it interesting that the crux of the argument is based on general geographical ignorance of Iraq and the surrounding countries.
General geographical ignorance? What are you talking about?

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Admittedly, I slept through my geography class, but Basrah looks a tad closer to Kuwait than Turkey to me.
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Post by miir »

Admittedly, I slept through my geography class, but Basrah looks a tad closer to Kuwait than Turkey to me
"Eight to Fifteen days" closer?
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Post by Pahreyia »

By camel...? Sure. I could see that.
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Post by miir »

Pahreyia wrote:By camel...? Sure. I could see that.
Dude, camels can easily cover 100+ miles a day.. they'd make it in under a week. :lol:
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Post by Brotha »

miir wrote:"Eight to Fifteen days" closer?
Quoting from a press release from Halliburton's website:

http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive ... 121803.jsp
The mission to deliver fuel to Iraq is extremely hazardous. Not many people want to drive eight to fifteen days through a war zone with a truck full of flammable materials. Three drivers have been killed and many others injured while performing this mission and 60 vehicles have been damaged.
While the Halliburton press release doesn't say the exact circumstances in which it takes 8-15 days to deliver the fuel, it can't get much further than from Kuwait to Northern Iraq (the NRO piece said from Kuwait to N. Iraq, not from Turkey to Basrah, I misread that).

It takes a lot longer, and is far more dangerous, to deliver fuel from Turkey to Basrah than from Kuwait to Basrah, and the same goes for from Kuwait to N. Iraq rather than Turkey to N. Iraq- all that is pretty obvious. Why don't you try attacking the true "crux" of the argument rather than playing the same lame semantics game?

Here's an article from the WSJ*, it's a couple of weeks old but I just now saw it. There's some interesting stuff in here:

http://webreprints.djreprints.com/890250434404.html

*- THE WALL STREET JOURNAL IS CONSERVATIVE LEANING. ON A LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE BIAS SCALE OF 0-10** I'D SAY IT'S ABOUT A SIX AND A HALF FOR AN ARTICLE, HIGHER IF IT'S AN EDITORIAL. NATIONAL REVIEW IS ABOUT A 9. NOW PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT ARTICLES I TAKE FROM CONSERVATIVE WEBSITES HAVING CONSERVATIVE BIASES. I WILL BE PUTTING A NUMBER SCORE NEXT TO EVERYTHING I POST FROM NOW ON FOR THOSE WHO ARE TOO RETARDED TO REALIZE AN ARTICLE FROM NATIONAL REVIEW WILL PRETTY MUCH BE ONE SIDED AND IS EXPRESSING SOMEONE'S OPINION MORE THAN IT IS THE COLD HARD FACTS.

**-Zero being extremely liberal, (ie Iraq was Vietnam ever since we had to stop a few days to refuel because we were kicking ass too fast), and 10 being ultra conservative (ie every liberal is a traitor and should be shot).
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