Return of the King [SPOILERS]

Post by **Sylvus** » December 12, 2003, 10:39 pm

/edit: People have now seen this movie. Read at your own risk. [SPOILERS]

It fucking rocked.

I was just kidding about the spoilers, we'll discuss it next week. Suffice to say the battles were even cooler in this one than the previous two, and I felt that it followed the book pretty accurately. Nothing too notable was missing, save the one scene that you have probably heard was missing and I agree with the choice to exclude that. And a couple of loose ends from previous movies were tied up - perhaps not the way the books covered them, but I think they were reasonable enough.

Running time was right around 3:20, it took a while to pick up as far as action goes, but there is a lot of story to cover so it was completely understandable.

If you've been anxiously awaiting it as much as I was, I think you'll be pleased with the outcome. I can't wait until all three extended editions are out so I can see the whole story as it was meant to be presented. This is easily my favorite trilogy that has ever been made; no portion of it was any weaker than the last.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » December 13, 2003, 4:46 am

glad you weren't disappointed...i'm even more excited to see it now

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » December 13, 2003, 5:34 am

Sweet review. I'm definately looking forward to it.

Shashonna · Post by **Shashonna** » December 13, 2003, 12:24 pm

Already got tickets cant wait !!

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 13, 2003, 2:21 pm

you can go to hell for seeing this early!

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 13, 2003, 7:10 pm

http://www.memoirsoftheshire.com/rotkclips.asx

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » December 13, 2003, 9:05 pm

Thanks Vetiria!

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 17, 2003, 8:40 am

Went to the midnight showing, was definately worth it!

noel · Post by **noel** » December 17, 2003, 9:06 am

Same here. Just got back. I'll comment on what I can tomorrow.

Great movie!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » December 17, 2003, 9:25 am

Just got home from seeing it at City Walk...

Absolutely in-fucking-credible. It was definitely worth every penny Brittney spent on my ticket

. The animation was amazing and there was no fault or drop in the story line at all. I could go on, but I have 2 finals that start in 4 hours

.

Sartori · Post by **Sartori** » December 17, 2003, 10:01 am

Extremely cool movie. Favorite parts:

-Pippin singing while Faramir's war-party rides to it's doom
-Shelob sneaking up on Frodo, and Sam subsequently kicking her ass
-Every scene with Gollum
-Eowyn/Meri's showdown with the Nazgul King
-A flaming Denethor leaping off the precipice at the top of Minas Tirith (was pretty hilarious actually)
-The undead army overrunning the oliphaunt
-Gwaihir (who never talks

) and his pals attacking the Nazgul
-The entire Mt. Doom/destruction of the ring scene

The only thing I didn't like was my bladder (and my date's too) sitting at bursting point for over an hour - especially toward the end where I expected it to drag on, and of course it did.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 17, 2003, 11:29 am

Sylvus wrote:Running time was right around 3:20

My bladder can't take that, it better have an intermission

Post by **Sylvus** » December 17, 2003, 12:43 pm

Adding to Sartori's...

The first attack on Minas Tirith when they were launching the catapults back and forth at each other was really sweet, as was the whole Oliphaunt attack even before the undead army showed up.

I had thought when Pippin started singing that I was really going to dislike that part, but I think they did it really well; I ended up enjoying it.

Seeing it again on Friday, I can hardly wait.

emmer · Post by **emmer** » December 17, 2003, 2:21 pm

Amazing movie, even better than I thought it would be. I'm so relieved it wasn't a major let down like some of the recent blockbuster trilogy finales have been. I loved it.

To sum it up, let's just say that I pulled an all-nighter to see the premiere showing on the eve of having to take two finals and work a 9 hour shift I am about to be late for... and it was still well worth it. ROTK was simply that good.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » December 17, 2003, 2:22 pm

Sartori wrote:The only thing I didn't like was my bladder (and my date's too) sitting at bursting point for over an hour - especially toward the end where I expected it to drag on, and of course it did.

That's why, when it comes to movies this long, I do not drink anything right before, or during the movie.

I won't be able to see RotK until Saturday! /cry

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » December 17, 2003, 2:31 pm

I held my bladder!!! For the first time EVAR at a movie that long hehe. It took 5 mins to pee afterwards but well worth it.

The Legolas/Oliphaunt scene got some major applause from our theatre. And Gimli's comment was seriously hilarious.

The undead army kicked some major ass - so awesomely well done.

Way too many own parts to comment on atm. Cause I'm at work, after the midnight showing, and I'm kinda tired. Was way too wound up and the movie was way too intense for me to be able to fall asleep well afterwards.

What a tear jerker ending - I can never really read the harbor part in the book - chokes me up every time. Did so on screen as well.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 17, 2003, 2:56 pm

Sirensa wrote:What a tear jerker ending - I can never really read the harbor part in the book - chokes me up every time. Did so on screen as well.

I wondered about that. I was getting a little choked up myself, but since our theater was full of heartless media people there wasn't a lot of commotion in the peanut gallery. I thought perhaps I was just too in touch with my sensitive side. =P

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » December 17, 2003, 3:00 pm

I am also relieved this third movie lived up to all of its hype...unlike the Matrix trilogy, LOTR goes out with one hell of a bang...

As for the movie itself...the first one was pretty good, the second one was better and of course the third one was best. However, I think if you look beyond the cinematic and graphic aspect of the movie you must commend the actors on one hell of a job. For once, one of the LOTR movies may just win best movie of the year, the acting was really that good imo.

noel · Post by **noel** » December 17, 2003, 4:20 pm

Very simply, Peter Jackson's vision of LotR exceeded all expectations, and was the best theatrical presentation of fantasy that has ever graced the screen. The cinematography, acting, and translation from book to movie were all exceedingly well done except for some very minor things I would have changed, largely in the Two Towers. I don't believe LotR will ever be attempted again as a movie series, and I also don't believe anyone could truly do a better job than was done here. No matter how anal-retentive you are about the books, taken as movies, these are the greatest fantasies of all time.

I'm personally still undecided on whether RotK or FotR is my favorite. I think FotR's pacing was slightly better, though easier, and RotK was most likely the hardest to film, and be able to cover everything. I'll likely have to wait until the DVD extended edition to make that decision.

Spoilers To Follow
The bad (minor things):

Not explaining that the reason why Denethor was such a fucking idiot was because he was essentially under the control of Sauron via a palantir was pretty disappointing.
Legolas Elephant performance was a bit much. It was fine and all, but largely unecessary. Gimli's line following it was awesome though.
The scene where the black boats arrive was much better done in the book. I recall that the battle of Pelennor Fields was at a standstill, and things were looking very grim. The arrival of the black boats was noticed by the army of Gondor/Rohan, and all hope was lost because it was assumed that they were reinforcement of the enemies. As the boats started to roll into Osigilath, Aragorn's standard (the flag with the white tree and seven stars) was unfurled on the decks of each boat, and then the asskicking began. I just wish that they'd taken the time to have the people on the fields fighting notice the ships rolling in, and make some statement about there being no hope now etc.
I was disappointed that the scene were Aragorn lays hands on Faramir to heal him didn't make it into the movie.
There's also a battlefield scene I recall where Aragorn and Eomer wind up back to back surrounded, and basically lay waste to the hoardes... Shame that didn't make it in either. (very minor complaint)
No fault of Peter Jackson and Co., but for a movie, the ending was difficult, especially because each scene seemed to actually end it, but then it would come back again. The final ending in my opinion should have been Frodo leaving for the Grey Havens, and not Sam going back to the Shire.

The Good (too many things to mention but):

Any battle scene. The large, panned out, battle scenes and city scenes were the best of any movie, ever. There were a few similar scenes in the recent The Last Samurai, and they looked like garbage compared to the masterful work that Weta did.
Good lord, Minas Tirith was fucking awesome. So well done. The scene where Gandalf and Pippin first arrive, and he gallops through the city was just awesome.
All of the Sam/Frodo scenes with Gollum were spectacular.
Shelob -- looked completely real. The movement on that model was nothing short of amazing. Sam kicking it's ass was great too.
Cate Blanchett as Galadriel was performed just perfectly in all three movies. I really enjoyed her.
Andy Serkis showed he's as good out of a CGI body as he is in one. The scene with Smeagol and Deagol was great.
I really liked the scene were Aragorn tells the hobbits, "You bow to no one!"

The movie was simply epic, and I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » December 17, 2003, 5:12 pm

One thing that really threw me off, and I assume it was a scene that was cut, was how Sam got Sting, the Light of Erendil(sp?), Frodo's cloak, and the Ring. When Frodo escapes Shelob's cave you see (what I thought) was Sting stuck in the web when he jumps out the hole. Frodo had neither sword nor cloak when Gollum jumps him, so you have to wonder if Sam went into the cave to get those things back, or found them, or something. You never even see that he has the Ring until he shows it to Frodo at the top of the fortress.

Also, the fight at the same fortress was really short. I mean, they start beating the crap out of each other (for about 10 seconds I think), and then Sam just runs into it with everyone dead.

The one thing I did love was watching the eye just freak out. The cgi literally made it look like he just wanted to jump off the top of tower. I was rolling. I also laughed when Gandalf bitch-slapped the Steward of Gondor... fucking gimp.

P.S. Trolls were representin'

cid · Post by **cid** » December 17, 2003, 6:03 pm

Best fucking movie ever!!!!

I am so very pleased, worth the 3 hours of sleep I got last night.

I kept wanting to scream RUDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » December 17, 2003, 6:26 pm

Sargeras wrote:You never even see that he has the Ring until he shows it to Frodo at the top of the fortress.

I was thinking that was kinda weird too. But then I figured they must have done it on purpose for the audience that hadn't read the book - that element of "oh no!!!" or something.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 17, 2003, 9:37 pm

If I am not mistaken, about 30-35 minutes of the movie was cut from what it was supposed to be. I have the extended versions of both the first movies, and I think they are better than the cut versions. I believe that as amazing as this movie was, the extended version with the 30 extra minutes will be the icing on the cake.

That said, this is easily the movie of the year, and the trilogy of the ages imho. An epic book was masterfully turned into an epic saga on the screen.

cid · Post by **cid** » December 17, 2003, 9:45 pm

Kelshara wrote:If I am not mistaken, about 30-35 minutes of the movie was cut from what it was supposed to be. I have the extended versions of both the first movies, and I think they are better than the cut versions. I believe that as amazing as this movie was, the extended version with the 30 extra minutes will be the icing on the cake.

That said, this is easily the movie of the year, and the trilogy of the ages imho. An epic book was masterfully turned into an epic saga on the screen.

Next year for xmas I want the trilogy !!!!!!!!!

noel · Post by **noel** » December 17, 2003, 10:27 pm

Excellent Review from the Bob the Angry Flower site:
http://angryflower.com/return.html

Durew · Post by **Durew** » December 18, 2003, 2:26 am

Best
Movie
Ever

Waran · Post by **Waran** » December 18, 2003, 2:59 am

Just got back from the theatre...

All I can say is OH MY FUCKING GOD what a OUTSTANDING piece of work!

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING compares to this cinematic masterpiece. You are SERIOUSLY missing out if you don't see this movie!

The attention to detail in RotK is so unbelievable I'm still in that "awe" factor. The arrows in the oliphant, the dead army, I could go on and on.

Peter Jackson deserves awards out the ass for this and the trilogy.

More to come later, going to definately see this one again

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 18, 2003, 3:11 am

I thought it was really great. The battle scene in Gondor actually exceeded the second movie's scene at helm's deep, which was already my favorite battle scene in a movie. Hopefully this will cement Jackson as one of the triple a directors of our time, which he's already deserved to be for the last decade and a half.

I could have used forty or fifty less close up shots of Frodo gazing warmly at his friends near the end though. I think they could have saved 45 minutes off the running time if they shortened those bastards.

Also, not enough Aragon looking hot and speaking softly in elvish.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » December 18, 2003, 3:55 am

Largely very very good...Well worth large quantities of viewing...

Excellent work by the entire cast again...kudos to Billy Boyd and Vigo Mortensen if they actually sung those bits and if not...those are amazing voice matches...

Well handled battles and acceptable variations from plot...

Pellenor Fields was the win...Eowyn/Merry vs Witch King was fantastic!

The battering ram was so perfect...

Deagol/Smeagol scene was really good and the evolution of Smeagol/Gollum was very well done...

The CGI effects and Massive Engine works were flawless...

Anduril poem...

...

Notable sightings...PJ as a pirate captain...his kids who have also been in all 3 films now as Gondorian kids...the Weta Visual Effects supervisor as the Gondorian soldier guarding the beacon at Minas Tirith, Alan Lee as a random Rohan in the dinner scene...Phillipa Boyens in the crowd at the coronation (behind and to the right of the hobbits)....

Minor Gripes:

1) Ok so why did they not do Narsil at Rivendell?...If they had used it to build the reluctance of Aragorn to be King...I would have been fine with it...But in the end it was totally pointless for him not to have Anduril the whole time...Would have saved Elrond one hell of a trip...

2) The dead arriving on the Pirates of Umbar's boats...ummm?...I guess the didn't want to introduce a whole other group of folks here...aight...

3) Lack of The King as a Healer...which is how Minas Tirith knew that the King had returned...(this may be resolved in the 1 hour 5 minutes of additional footage in the Extended Cut)

4) The absence of palantir explication (I'm betting this is in the extended version)...

3 Major Fuck Ups:

1) The Morgul Vale tension builder...Sam left Frodo...ummmm no no never never...(also Gollum would never touch Mallorn leaves)...this was used to build up the power of the ring...and was just a huge mistake...really an unnecessary scenario put in to mollycoddle those who didn't get it...

2) The Ringwraiths astride the fell beasts after the destruction of the one ring...ummmm...no...not possible...if it had been during the everything falls apart montage ok....but it was well after...the wraiths were only held in middle earth by the power of the one ring and would have, should have been vaporized banished instantly I'm suprised this wasnt intercut in the destruction sequence...or alternately riderless fell beasts in the after sequence...

3) The Gray Havens...or enroute...Bilbo is being given the Honour of taking the last boat to Valinor.../veto...Sam having been a ringbearer went to Valinor in his later years...There are also numerous elves remaining in middle earth when Galadriel & Co leave though to my knowledge Galadriel and Celeborn are the last of the Noldor to leave...Why on earth was it necessary to say last...Perhaps PJ is setting us up for the 4th film....

Mad props also to the EOnline research staff...In their online quiz they have a photo of Galadriel, Bilbo, Celeborn, Gandalf, Frodo, Elrond and Cirdan from the Gray Havens...The question is which character is oldest...Their answer...Galadriel...hehehehe...she may be marginally older than Celeborn and Cirdan...but Gandalf is Maiar...created well before the Noldor were born into Valinor...

...

All negatives aside...the movie is well worth the time and the money...

PS: Did ya notice the orcs only fired the flaming balls of pitch from the catapults after dark?...guess they're just for the dramatic effect...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 18, 2003, 4:04 am

yes okay you are a tad too obsessed.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » December 18, 2003, 5:23 am

kyoukan wrote:yes okay you are a tad too obsessed.

I am stricken...Clearly the story was about Aragon looking hot and speaking softly in elvish...and cool battle scenes...

Funny those pesky old books focused very little on that...

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » December 18, 2003, 6:11 am

It fucking owned and I can't wait for the EE. Please let it be 4.5 hours long

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 18, 2003, 6:33 am

Arborealus wrote:
kyoukan wrote:yes okay you are a tad too obsessed.
I am stricken...Clearly the story was about Aragon looking hot and speaking softly in elvish...and cool battle scenes...

Funny those pesky old books focused very little on that...

yeah dude you're totally right, jackson should have concentrated less on visual storytelling and character interaction and more on the fact that gandalf was created well before the Noldor were born into Valinor and blabbity blah fucking blah.

Kwonryu DragonFist · December 18, 2003, 9:37 am

Saruman (Christopher Lee) was a bit pissed!

More of him in the Extended

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » December 18, 2003, 9:48 am

Great movie. Words are still escaping me on how to describe how pleased I was. The third movie really worked well with the first two, and offered a nice and seamless picture of the books.

As for the parts left out, well, no big deal. The movie accomplished what it was supposed to, and did it just fine. There are many points of the Battle of Gondor that I would have liked to have seen, or done better, but the movie would be a god-forsaken 5 hours long.

My only complaint about the movie, and this is the same for all three, are the close ups of battle scenes. Each time there is a "spotlight on so-and-so" solo fight, they camera angle is not big enough, you miss the subtle things like footwork with parries and strikes. This is the one thing The Matrix did great...about the only thing. Very small complaint though!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 18, 2003, 12:01 pm

Epic in scale and story, I thought this movie did as much as it could to sum up all the loose ends the way the books did.

Pros:

Pretty much everything really. The battle sceens were breathtaking. Peter Jackson also seemed to somehow "up the pace" over and over. Everything just got better and better in terms of the battles.

Cons (or fanboi complaints):

These are the things I explained to my friends who never read the books and all of them said the movie made more sense after I filled in the gaps. Hopefully these gaps are filled in the extended edition.

--The extended Two Towers touched a bit more on the inherent tension between the orcs from Mordor and the Uru-Ki from Isengard. This was initially exposed early in the books and came to a head in the tower where Frodo was taken. All those orcs that fought and killed each other were orc vs. Uri-Ki.

--They should have really shown Faramir falling for Eowyn. In the books, they wed, which unites the kingdoms of Gondor and Rohan. The movie had them standing next to each other at the corination, perhaps that will be in the extended version?

--Definately should've explained the last palantir. The one that was found outside Isengard was kinda washed over too. In the book, Aragorn looked in it and some cool shit happened. I forget what, but I remember he looked where others could not or something like that.

--No cleansing of the shire, but by the end of the movie I realised it would have been another hour or so to explain that properly. Still, that would've wrapped up the loose ends of Saruman and Grima. Especially how Grima convicend Treebeard to let them go and such.

--Gandulf never explained that he was the owner of one of the rings of power, although they made a point to make it clearly visible on his hand at the dock scene. (to whomever said Sam was a ringbearer, he wasn't. He never wore a (The?) ring of power, unlike all the others present, who each wore one of the lesser rings of power.)

As soon as the movie was done, I looked at my friend and said "I hear that in the extended edition, the goodbyes last 4 hours instead of 2", which got a lot of chuckles from those around me

Still, it was a good way to say goodbye to these characters we've watched over the past 3 years, and at least 12+ hours of film.

The entire trilogy gets a 10 out of 10 from me. For kids today, this is thier Star Wars. I imagine it will be another 20 years before LotR is topped by another trilogy, although PJ raised the bar so high it may be even longer.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » December 18, 2003, 12:07 pm

Yeah, they could have traded 20 minutes of hobbit homoeroticism for a little Saruman screentime.

At the Gray Havens I swear I thought Frodo was going to plant a liplock on poor Samwise.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 18, 2003, 12:31 pm

Aranuil wrote: [*]No fault of Peter Jackson and Co., but for a movie, the ending was difficult, especially because each scene seemed to actually end it, but then it would come back again. The final ending in my opinion should have been Frodo leaving for the Grey Havens, and not Sam going back to the Shire.[/list]

yeah i agree with the XXX Legolas trunk surfing thing

. good for kids, but over the top.

though to the ending, i totally disagree with you here. The ending is perfect in the book, any deviation from that would have been a much greater mistake than any listed above.

this is a good explenation from the Atlanta Journal Constitution's Eleanor Ringle

Eleanor Ringle wrote:In the very last image, he honors Tolkien's vision, which always treasured home and family over great deeds and heart-stopping perils. The simple proclamation "Well, I'm back," and a closed yellow door, reminds us that we, the audience, have our own destiny. We are meant to be part of the adventure, not its aftermath. We share the journey, but not the journey's ultimate prize.

i really enjoyed the movie, i thought it could have been shorter from a pacing perspective. The wizard of oz segment in the house of healing was kind of wierd too

Post by **Sylvus** » December 18, 2003, 12:50 pm

Arborealus wrote: Minor Gripes:

1) Ok so why did they not do Narsil at Rivendell?...If they had used it to build the reluctance of Aragorn to be King...I would have been fine with it...But in the end it was totally pointless for him not to have Anduril the whole time...Would have saved Elrond one hell of a trip...

In my opinion, I thought that was a reasonable enough way to include it into the movie and have it make sense, without having to keep referencing it throughout the trilogy. I feel like they made it more accessible to the mainstream audience, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just helps all those folk out there without imaginations to get a little more into the fantasy genre that we all enjoy so much.

Arundel Pajo · Post by **Arundel Pajo** » December 18, 2003, 12:50 pm

Good movie, but there was one notable scene that just made me cringe...

After everything is done and over, and Frodo wakes up in a bed in Gondor, all his friends come to greet him in what is, quite possibly, the gheyest, touchy-feely, silent montage of..well...gheyness.

All these hobbits, giggling and hugging and rolling around on this bed. I'm sorry, but I half expected them to just break out in an impromptu sorority house pillow fight right then and there - with the underwear and the feathers flying all around in the air and the whole nine yards.

edit>> geeky aside - it had roughly the same effect on me as that horrible party scene at the end of "Return of the Jedi." Lando getting his white boy clap on without any semblance of rhythm and with this big, goofy grin on his face makes me cringe every time.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » December 18, 2003, 12:58 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:(to whomever said Sam was a ringbearer, he wasn't. He never wore a (The?) ring of power, unlike all the others present, who each wore one of the lesser rings of power.)

Sam bore the ring from the time he thought Frodo was dead until he rescued him in the tower (pretty brief, granted). I think he may of even wore it during this time in the book, not sure of that though. But in the book I am pretty sure in the end scenes it has Frodo telling Sam that since he was a ring bearer too, and eligible to follow him to the west eventually (or if Frodo doesn't mention it to Sam in the book, it mentions Sam eventually sailing off in the appendix).

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 18, 2003, 1:05 pm

arundel-

that was what i was talking about when i said the "wizard of oz" scene. It was sepia tone, and i was just waiting for Toto to jump on the bed when Sam came into the doorway. When Gimli walked in, i wispered to my friend "and you were the scarecrow!" which is funny cause Legolas comes next, and that fucker could totally be the tin man.

anyway, i do think that the landscape photography was beautiful, like the lighting of the beacons across the mountains was awesome.

i will not say that all things Peter Jackson are amazing. He does this one technique (most notabley w/ Uruk Hai late in "Fellowship") where he kind of slow motions and blurs things to emphasize some kind of scary moment or something. Frankly to me, this looks kind of cheesy.

But i will forgive all of these minor transgressions. Amazingly the movie really works. To tie up all of those loose ends for a movie like this in a manner that is accessable to the mainstream is a very impressive feat. I was pretty worried that this one just wasn't going to be able to bring it all to a climax.

I thought it did a very good job.

My biggest complaint with the trilogy is honestly the inflation of Arwen's character, and I thought most of her scenes with Elrond were painfully written. I mean it was just this saccharine fantasy romance bullshit. the way that she appears in Gondor however was great, and shockingly not slowmotioned, with beams of light illuminating her from the heavens, cherubim and seraphim with harpstings, etc.

I had a good time, and saw it with the same couple of friends I had seen the previous 2 the years before. A buddy of mine from NY keeps coming 'home' at the right time to catch the debut, and we went out afterwards for some beers. It was great. When the 4 hobbits clinked their pints together, i knew i had to have a beer myself!

i'm not sure it will get Best Picture, like all of the hype, because i think it will run into strong competition from "The Last Samurai" (which is not a perfect movie either). "Lost in Translation" is better than both probably but not as widely seen, so not sure how it will do. Jackson may get best director as kind of a 'total' reward, and honestly he probably deserves it.

What he did was pretty amazing, in the scale of things and keeping it all together, etc. I'm going again soon =)

edit: Chmee yeah Sam does wear the ring in the book i'm pretty sure while he rescues Frodo from the tower.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » December 18, 2003, 1:39 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:These are the things I explained to my friends who never read the books and all of them said the movie made more sense after I filled in the gaps. Hopefully these gaps are filled in the extended edition.

i did sort of the same thing with a friend of mine who hadn't read the books. i couple of times i looked over and she had this wtf expression on her face. the eagles at the end of the movie i don't think made a lot of sense to anyone who hadn't read the books.

shelob really surprised me, i expected that part to kind of suck. but it turned out pretty badass.

when eowyn is holding her father as he dies on the battlefield... i LOVED that scene. i thought she was great.

aside from the asshole a couple of seats down who kept answering his motherfucking cell phone, i had a great time with this movie!

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » December 18, 2003, 2:47 pm

Arborealus wrote:3 Major Fuck Ups:

3) The Gray Havens...or enroute...Bilbo is being given the Honour of taking the last boat to Valinor.../veto...Sam having been a ringbearer went to Valinor in his later years...There are also numerous elves remaining in middle earth when Galadriel & Co leave though to my knowledge Galadriel and Celeborn are the last of the Noldor to leave...Why on earth was it necessary to say last...Perhaps PJ is setting us up for the 4th film....

Yeah that bugged me too. When they said last I was expecting Sam to get on the boat at that point too - which might have been ok. But then others would have needed to be there too, etc. (like Legolas!! rawr he looked good in dress clothes)

Thought it was cool that Peter Jackson's kids did a cameo in each one. I jabbed Sylvos when I saw them and was like LOOK ITS THEM! =D cept quietly cause I'm not disruptive.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 18, 2003, 3:20 pm

I would also like to mention that whenever I hear what I call the "Aragorn music", I get all tingly inside. Am I the only one?

I enjoyed the score to all three movies. Verily.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 18, 2003, 3:24 pm

Sam does wear the ring in the book to hide from orcs.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 18, 2003, 3:24 pm

i like the rohan 'theme' =)

noel · Post by **noel** » December 18, 2003, 3:28 pm

Voronwë wrote:though to the ending, i totally disagree with you here. The ending is perfect in the book, any deviation from that would have been a much greater mistake than any listed above.

My bad there. I've been rereading it, but it's been quite a while. I didn't realize until after I saw it how closely it followed the books ending, and now that I know, I'm very happy.

Fairweather wrote:--They should have really shown Faramir falling for Eowyn. In the books, they wed, which unites the kingdoms of Gondor and Rohan. The movie had them standing next to each other at the corination, perhaps that will be in the extended version?

--Definately should've explained the last palantir. The one that was found outside Isengard was kinda washed over too. In the book, Aragorn looked in it and some cool shit happened. I forget what, but I remember he looked where others could not or something like that.

Totally agree on both counts... On the second point...

/LotR geek mode ON

J.R.R. Tolkein wrote:Together they went back into the Burg; yet for some time Aragorn sat silent at the table in the hall, and the others waited for him to speak. 'Come!' said Legolas at last. 'Speak and be comforted, and shake off the shadow! What has happened since we came back to this grim place in the grey morning?'
'A struggle somewhat grimmer for my part than the battle of the Hornburg,' answered Aragorn. 'I have looked in the Stone of Orthanc, my friends.'
'You have looked in that accursed stone of wizardry!' exclaimed Gimli with fear and astonishment in his face. 'Did you say aught to – him? Even Gandalf feared that encounter.'
'You forget to whom you speak,' said Aragorn sternly, and his eyes glinted. 'Did I not openly proclaim my title before the doors of Edoras? What do you fear that I should say to him? Nay, Gimli,' he said in a softer voice, and the grimness left his face, and he looked like one who has laboured in sleepless pain for many nights. 'Nay, my friends, I and the lawful master of the Stone, and I had both the right and the strength to use it, or so I judged. The right cannot be doubted. The strength was enough – barely.'
He drew a deep breath. 'It was a bitter struggle, and the weariness is slow to pass. I spoke no word to him, and in the end I wrenched the Stone to my own will. That alone he will find hard to endure. And he beheld me. Yes, Master Gimli, he saw me, but in other guise than you see me here. If that will aid him, then I have done ill. But I do not think so. To know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, I deem; for he knew it not till now. The eyes in Orthanc did not see through the armour of Théoden; but Sauron has not forgotten Isildur and the sword of Elendil. Now in the very hour of his great designs the heir of Isildur and the Sword are revealed; for I showed the blade re-forged to him. He is not so mighty yet that he is above fear; nay, doubt ever gnaws him.'

Touching on Arbor's points:
That battering ram was just stellar. Nothing says 'You're fucked!' quite like a 20 ton flaming wolf's head!

1) Narsil -- Totally agree. I don't know why they made Aragorn seem so reluctant. In the grand scheme of things, they cleaned it up rather well, but totally agree...

2) Black boats -- I'm less annoyed that they didn't introduce the Pirates, and more annoyed that they didn't have the Dunedain and Elrond's sons show up...

3) The King, the Healer -- I touched on this. I'm hoping it's in the extended edition. To me, this is plot critical.

On the Eonline thing... Arguably if you'd only read the LotR, Galadriel would be seen as the ideal answer. Additionally, it's arguable that Gandalf once he came back to life after being killed in the battle with the Balrog, was actually the leader of the Maiar and not the prior Gandalf who was a lesser Maiar (if that makes sense).

Dexail · Post by **Dexail** » December 18, 2003, 3:30 pm

The Wizard of Oz also came mind for me during the reunion scene at the end.

Also, when the Oliphaunts were crossing the battlefield and it showed them from a distance, with the battle armor on they looked like a line of Avatars of War walking toward Minas Tirith.

Overall, an outstanding movie!

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » December 18, 2003, 5:06 pm

I really enjoyed it, great film. Looking forward to seeing it again (and definitely the extended version).

Some of the things I would have liked to see, (hopefully some of which will make it into the extended cut).

In the battle for the Pelennor fields.

Theoden and the Rohirrim attacking the Haradrim horsemen and Theoden throwing down their banner (red serpent?). This one is pretty minor and not really suprised that it wasn't included, but would have been interesting to see.

Gandalf confronting the Lord of the Nazgul at the breached gate of Minas Tirith. Really suprised this wasn't there.

As Aranuil mentioned earlier, I think they could have done the arrival of the Corsair ships better, with at least some reference to them being worried about it being reinforcements for Sauron. On a side note, I thought bringing the army of the dead to this battle instead of the battle in south Gondor where they were used in the book worked ok given how much stuff they had to try to get into the film.

Also as Aranuil mentioned the scene where Eomer and Aragorn meet on the field would have been nice to see.

Outside of the battle.

As others have mentioned, the houses of healing parts. Not really suprised at all though it didn't make it into the theatrical release. Would be suprised not to see it in the extended edition though.

Also as others have mentioned something indicating Denethor had a palantir. I wouldn't term it as Sauron controling him through it exactly. But if I remember correctly from the book Sauron basically controlled what he saw through the palantir and only let him see things to convince Denethor Gondor was doomed.

A minor gripe.

When Pippen offered his services to Denethor in the movie Gandalf pretty much blows it off as foolish. If I remember correctly in the book Gandalf thought it was well done (although somewhat dangerous since Denethor would then pump Pippen for information). Minor granted, but it was a signifcant point in Pippen's character.

A larger gripe.

The scene where Frodo tells Sam to leave. Didn't happen in the book and hurt the story in my opinion. I am sure Jackson was just trying to beat us over the head some more with establishing the ring's influence but I think that was amply done already. Frodo ends up looking worse than he should of as a result of it.

Still, overall a great film and one I look forward to seeing again.

VeeshanVault

Return of the King [SPOILERS]

Return of the King [SPOILERS]

Re: Return of the King [SPOILERS]