interesting

[Chidoro]

Shae, seriously, this whole, "woman's place is in the home" thing, is humorous at times, but ignorant as hell when you're serious. I'm really sorry that your employment ambitions aren't set very high, but you are, rapidly, becoming the anomaly, not the other way around.

You are sorry her employment ambitions are not set very high?
How about her ambitions (implied) to raise a family and look after the household etc.
Your statement by its very nature states that a woman who stays home and looks after the kids and the household is also a woman who should be pitied for not having lofty goals and ambitions.

I can think of no higher calling than that of a mother and wife. If the economics of todays society were different we would have more stay at home moms and/or dads. Would this lead to better children and higher moral standards, you bet it would.

Off topic I know but the above statement pissed me off.

Why would it piss you off, because you feel women shouldn't have the outlet to succeed in a career if they choose to as Shae suggests?

I guess I shouldn't expect any more from you, regardless of how much I try.

I think you missed his point completely. He wasn't saying that women shouldn't have a successful career. He was merely saying that he didn't like how Shae seemed to imply that women's place was in a home. And he commented that stay at home wives/mothers was a noble calling. I see nothing chauvaistic or out of line in what he said. Perhaps you just misinterpreted his post.

I think he misinterpreted mine. Read it again chief, then read what Marb said to understand then read what Shae said to hear about stifling women opportunities solely because it's their "role".

Fuck that, if you don't understand opportunity then live in muttonhead world as well

[vn_Tanc]

That's a good point. Communities don't gather much anymore, so I guess the effects of peer pressure aren't felt very often.


Hmm...

That's cos it's scarey outside! Guns, terrorists, crackheads, Michael Moore, Paedophiles! Stay at home! Watch TV! Pay your taxes! Be a productive economic resource! It's all society asks of us any more and is simultaneously rapidly becoming the only acceptable indicator of "success" in life.

[Aabidano]

I know just as many people who do just fine accomplishing it as people who are failing miserably at it. The latter, typically, occurs if there's something else that blocks the relationship besides two parents who work.

I've seen it go both ways as well, but have read in a couple places that kids that have a active\nurturing stay at home parent for the first 3-5 years of their life are more stable and secure with themselves. As compared to one that plops them in front of the TV and wanders off, or spends the day porking the mailman. They'd be better off in day care in that case.

That time out of the work force is a career killer, you basically have to start over afterwards.

[Chmee]

That's a good point. Communities don't gather much anymore, so I guess the effects of peer pressure aren't felt very often.


Hmm...

Depends on your definition of community. In the broader sense, communtities gather all the time, its just that we are far more mobile than we used to be so the "communities" we belong to aren't necesarrily the ones that are geographically close to us.

[Kargyle]

The economics of today are fine. You just have too many people who think they have to have everything, which is why both parents have to work. If more parents decided that they didn't need a 55'' TV, along with a TV in every room, etc... then you would have much fewer people in a situation where both parents have to work to keep the family up.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Yes: maybe they want to keep up w/ the Joneses. No: the woman of the family takes pride in her career and doesn't want to leave that part of her life behind. Whether some people feel that's a recipe of family disaster is debatable. I know just as many people who do just fine accomplishing it as people who are failing miserably at it. The latter, typically, occurs if there's something else that blocks the relationship besides two parents who work.

It's funny, but as kids, you really don't have a sense of what being "wealthy" really is short of the extreme. It's usually benchmarked against their own life, however humble that foundation is.

If one of the parents is so proud of their job that they aren't willing to give it up and stay home with the child/ren, then perhaps those parents should consider that they don't really want/need children. And it doesn't haven to be the woman that stays home, the father could decide to stay home with the children just as easily.

It seems to me, that far too many parents these days are relying on day care and school to raise their kids these days. Kids don't just need parents from 6pm to bed time, and on the weekends. A parent should be staying home atleast until their kid(s) are 14, 16 would probably be better. Having children means making some sacrifices, if you aren't willing to make the neccessary sacrifices, then don't have kids.

Or just convince everyone to stop crying about the decline of family values.

[Sylvus]

It seems to me, that far too many parents these days are relying on day care and school to raise their kids these days. Kids don't just need parents from 6pm to bed time, and on the weekends. A parent should be staying home atleast until their kid(s) are 14, 16 would probably be better. Having children means making some sacrifices, if you aren't willing to make the neccessary sacrifices, then don't have kids.

Or just convince everyone to stop crying about the decline of family values.

I disagree with the parents needing to be with their children 24/7. Both of my parents worked when I was young, and I think being sent to a babysitter's house (i suppose today it might be considered daycare) and interacting with lots of other children when I was 3-6 years old helped me to develop social skills. When I was 7 or 8 I often stayed home with my brother watching me or with no one at all. What would probably get my parents locked up today for neglect I view as an experience that taught me independence and self-reliance.

I know that both of my parents would have loved to have been able to stay home with me, and the fact of the matter is that it was a much bigger sacrifice for both of them to work so they could support our family. They provided all the love and support that a child needs, and taught me so much. All of it from 6pm to bed time and on the weekends. To this day we have a stronger relationship than most of the other families that I know.

Is that anecdote statistically relevant? Probably not, but it's one of the things that leads me to believe that it is more about a particular attitude and style that leads to successful child rearing than having each component (mother, father, constant parental presence, etc.) of a particular formula.

[Chidoro]

If one of the parents is so proud of their job that they aren't willing to give it up and stay home with the child/ren, then perhaps those parents should consider that they don't really want/need children. And it doesn't haven to be the woman that stays home, the father could decide to stay home with the children just as easily.

It seems to me, that far too many parents these days are relying on day care and school to raise their kids these days. Kids don't just need parents from 6pm to bed time, and on the weekends. A parent should be staying home atleast until their kid(s) are 14, 16 would probably be better. Having children means making some sacrifices, if you aren't willing to make the neccessary sacrifices, then don't have kids.

Or just convince everyone to stop crying about the decline of family values.

Perhaps you shouldn't assume you know what's best for each person. Why should a person give up their career in lieu of children if they can handle it? There are a good number of people who can hack it you know. That is really the point of my post. Some people are go getters and can do it all. Now I don't necessarily expect people who consistently play a game for over 30 hours a week to comprehend such a thing(not that you are, but I'm sure there are shitloads of readers out there that do), but it is true and it happens all of the time with positive results.