Rodney King redux?

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 2, 2003, 3:52 am

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/12/0 ... index.html

Unlike King, this turns out to be more than just a traffic stop, when the 350lb guy lurched at one of the officers. The video shows the cops beating the everliving shit out of that guy. This all happens in a White Castle parking lot. The question is, since it is six white cops on one black guy, will this turn into some huge racial thing, regardless of what did or did not go down?

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » December 2, 2003, 9:43 am

The guy was loaded on drugs, not sure if he was drunk, AND he struck first. He kept resisting and would not cooperate so the 2 cops already there had to call for backup. The cops just rushed the inevitable. What was really pathetic was that the NAACP still questioned it when theres a shitload of evidence against the guy. This wont be an issue for long.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » December 2, 2003, 11:02 am

This will be huge in Cincinnati simply because there is a group there led by a cheap Jesse Jackson impersonation called "The Reverend Damon Lynch" and he makes his living suing the city of Cincinnati.

Silvarel Mistmoon · Post by **Silvarel Mistmoon** » December 2, 2003, 11:37 am

CINCINNATI, Ohio (CNN) -- A 350-pound man who died after being beaten by police when they tried to subdue him had an enlarged heart, and cocaine and PCP in his system, the Hamilton County coroner's office said Monday.

"How many of our people have to die before the city decides to do something about it?" Nathaniel Livingston Jr. of the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati told The Associated Press.

"We are not trying to say that this gentleman was innocent. I don't know what the circumstances were, but I have seen the film, and the kind of beating that I observed would raise questions in anyone's mind," said Dr. Calvert Smith, president of the Cincinnati chapter of the NAACP

Hello! The man was 350 lbs if they to use force then they had to use force untill he was subdued because a simple pushing or hitting with a nightstick would have made this guy even more pissed.

I can remember in the '70's hearing about hippies being on Angel Dust and becoming stronger and very very violent.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » December 2, 2003, 11:54 am

Given what they had I can't blame the police based on what I read. At least they didn't just shoot the guy.

All I would suggest is giving the police better tools to subdue individuals so they don't have to resort to beating people with sticks. Nets or stun guns comes to mind off the top of my head.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » December 2, 2003, 12:39 pm

The few times I've flipped through Cop shows they were using stun guns. Although I'm sure those things aren't cheap. I don't know whether they used too much force, I haven't really read or watched that much... I will say I'd beat the shit out of somebody if they kept getting back up and coming after me.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 2, 2003, 12:46 pm

It would take a lot to bring down a 350lb man hopped up. I would be suprised if this went anywhere.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » December 2, 2003, 1:06 pm

If his heart was that fucked it was probably the excitement that killed him rather than the drugs and sticks.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » December 2, 2003, 1:09 pm

The guy went after the cops first after racially taunting em....He head hunted one of the cops and then they had to use force in self defense. If you watch the whole video you see it. Also atleast one of the 6 cops suspended pending investigation is black I think. The guys was extremely fat, pissed, drugged up and had an enlarged heart....Excerting himself like he did in his condition is what killed him.

PS: the cops called in for backup and stun guns but before it got there he was attacking em

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 2, 2003, 1:13 pm

Zamtuk wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/12/0 ... index.html

Unlike King, this turns out to be more than just a traffic stop, when the 350lb guy lurched at one of the officers. The video shows the cops beating the everliving shit out of that guy. This all happens in a White Castle parking lot. The question is, since it is six white cops on one black guy, will this turn into some huge racial thing, regardless of what did or did not go down?

First, it was 5 white cops and one black cop.
Second, the 2 cops that originally responded were trying to tell the guy to stay back, at which point the guy called them white rednecks and jumped at them.
Third, the original 2 cops called for backup and requested someone with a stun gun.
Fourth, the coroner has already stated that the bruises were on the lower part of the man's body and there was no damage to internal organs from the blows of the officer's sticks.
Fifth, the guy had grabbed a nightstick from one of the officers.

This one is cut and dried, except to the NAACP and the retards who represent them. It is lucky for the police in this case that they had it videotaped or they would be seriously screwed.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 2, 2003, 1:23 pm

Just a quick question as to how familiar the rest of the world is with Malice Green? It was a police brutality case in Detroit some time back, the cops beat him to death with a flashlight. There were claims that pressure was put onto the coroner to say that he had cocaine in his system, and in the end I believe a couple cops went to jail. I just wondered if people around the country were as familiar with it as the Rodney King case, it happened around the same time, maybe within a couple years.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 2, 2003, 2:09 pm

Forthe wrote:Given what they had I can't blame the police based on what I read. At least they didn't just shoot the guy.

All I would suggest is giving the police better tools to subdue individuals so they don't have to resort to beating people with sticks. Nets or stun guns comes to mind off the top of my head.

if he was on PCP and had an enlarged heart a stun gun probably would have killed him even faster. stun guns aren't the ultimate tool that the companies that manufacture them would like to make them out to be. a lot of law enforcement agencies that have tested them out will not use them because they have said that they are actually less humane than beating a guy with a tonfa. every time you run a 500,000 volt current through somebody's nervous system you are going to do damage to him.

from what I've seen it looks like the cops acted appropriately in this case. It's unfortunate the guy died (only from the cop's perspective, the guy himself didn't look like he deserved to live anyway), but common sense should tell you that if you resist arrest by the police you are going to get the shit beat out of you. they should teach you that at school.

the officers in the rodney king case acted wildly inappropriately so I don't know where the comparison is.

from what I've read, cincinnati is like one of the most racially tense cities in the US is it not?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 2, 2003, 2:17 pm

It is.

Unfortunately for law enforcement, stun gun type weapons are the only less-than-lethal option that seem to be reliable. Pretty much everything else on the market is ineffective against hopped-up perps or wildly inaccurate and unusable in crowded situations.

And as Kooky said, stun guns aren't the be all and end all folks wish them to be.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 2, 2003, 4:32 pm

I have heart problems (heart palpitations, irregular heartbeat) that lead to my Navy discharge, a stun gun would pown my nervous system.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 2, 2003, 4:53 pm

You better stay out of Cincinnati then. They are killing the brown skin people one at a time!

Mukyluk · Post by **Mukyluk** » December 2, 2003, 4:54 pm

what about the "less lethal" 12 gaug been bag rounds? bet that put a cocked up perp down..

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » December 2, 2003, 5:15 pm

if a perp is hyped up on something it might not knock them down, and even then those bags arnt fired out of pistols, takes a rifle sized gun i beleive, or was it a smg sized gun? i forget, but due to its size, it wont help you much when the perp is actively beating on you

Mukyluk · Post by **Mukyluk** » December 2, 2003, 5:24 pm

good point.. wazsnt thinkiong aobut the active beeting part of the incodent..
and you are correct the bags are fired out of a shotgun style rifle normally and sometimes from a shotgun reffered to as a streetsweeper

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » December 2, 2003, 5:28 pm

Friend of mine is a cop down in the New Orleans area somewhere, and he has told me some pretty scary stories about drugged up people. This particular case doesn't really seem that bad to me.. Not like a few of the other cases that has been around in the last few years (personally I really got fired up about the traffic stop where they killed the dog...).

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 2, 2003, 5:32 pm

Bean bags don't stop people worth shit.

There was a video of a rioter (can't remember where the riot occured) being played over an over on CNN maybe a year ago showing a guy being shot with bean bags multiple times from ranges of 20 to 5 feet and standing back up after every shot.

They don't work. Plastic bullets are lethal force. The odor crap they try to market as a less-than-lethal is laughable.

The only two I have seen work reasonably well are the light-based attacks (which can't be used in an unconfined space) and taser-type weapons.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 2, 2003, 6:03 pm

Fallanthas wrote:The only two I have seen work reasonably well are the light-based attacks (which can't be used in an unconfined space) and taser-type weapons.

What about the pepper sprays?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 2, 2003, 6:11 pm

Better than a club over the head, WAY less than reliable.

The problem with most less-than-lethals is that they rely on causing a great deal of pain to incapacitate a target. Drugs and stress tend to block pain. Ever seen smeone kicked in the cajones beat the living hell out of the kicker, then fall over an puke? That's about how effective most less-than-lethals are.

Less-than-lethal is a misnomer also. Last time I looked, there were about 15 deaths attributed to rubber bullets since they were introduced and maybe half that number attributed to bean bag rounds.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » December 2, 2003, 6:17 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Ever seen smeone kicked in the cajones beat the living hell out of the kicker, then fall over an puke?

uhhhh......nope. To this day, seeing this happen has managed to elude me.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 2, 2003, 6:21 pm

/shrug

It happens. Both stress and drugs tend to block pain and delay reaction to just about any of these less-than-lethals.

The day that someone comes up with an incapacitating weapon that is

A. effective under a broad range of conditions

B. easy to use in a stress situation and

C. safe

law enforcement agencies will fall over themselves buying it. So far the taser has come the closest, but still has a high risk factor to the perp.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 2, 2003, 6:26 pm

pepper spray only works if the person you're spraying isn't particulary angry. that's why it's good at controlling crowds of protesters that might be getting out of control or criminals. someone who's raging has their adrenaline up high enough where getting hurt is probably just going to make them angrier, and using it to subdue someone that you are attempting to arrest isn't going to help much because you don't need to see very well to resist arrest.

a few whacks with a tonfa hurts enough to subdue most people. nobody really dies from it except for rare cases like this where it probably agitated a tertiary health problem. as long as the cops follow procedure on where to hit someone for maximum pain and minimum damage its currently the safest way to subdue someone. I saw on TLC or discovery that they were working on this foam stuff that dries into a styrofoam like substance almost instantly that seems to work really well, but its really expensive still and they are having problems with getting it in people's mouths and nostrils and shit.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 2, 2003, 6:29 pm

Another one that is kind of interesting is the 'slicker' spray that is being developed.

Basically a target is hosed down with a super slick liquid polymer that makes it impossible to move without falling.

Of course, you can't cuff someone with that shit on them.

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » December 2, 2003, 6:46 pm

kyoukan wrote:the officers in the rodney king case acted wildly inappropriately so I don't know where the comparison is.

Whatever.

The tape lasted 81 seconds, but not one person in a thousand saw more than a few seconds of the tape. Viewers didn't see Rodney King attacking the policemen, unphased by a stun gun; they didn't see the policemen stop swinging their sticks the moment he decided to surrender.

Even if you saw the whole 81 seconds, it couldn't show you everything. A videotape can't show what happened before and after, it can't show you what is outside the range of the camera — for instance, who might have been hiding behind the car. It couldn't show the 100-mph car chase that threatened the lives of the passengers in Rodney King's car, the policemen, and innocent bystanders on the street. And it didn't show that the two passengers surrendered immediately — and so weren't struck by the policemen.

When the jurors announced their verdict at the end of the trial, the circus began. Almost every two-bit politician and social commentator — liberal and conservative alike — denounced the verdict as an injustice. People whose entire knowledge of the events consisted of 5 seconds of videotape and some press gossip sat in judgment on the jurors who sat through weeks of testimony and evidence.

How do you explain the jurors' surprising verdict? The obvious explanation is that they knew facts about the case that we didn't. But if you're unwilling to accept that idea, your only recourse is to call them racists.

The comparison is that they were both loaded on drugs, they were both big men, and they both attacked cops before being subdued. You can take a few seconds of ANY footage and turn it into the opposite of what it really is. You can take 5 seconds of Challenger footage and make it look like a successful liftoff. I would ask you to stop playing the retard, but I'm starting to believe it's no act.

Edit: Oh yeah, and they were both black, which is the only reason it ever made it on the news. If it had been a white man in either case, you never would have heard about it.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » December 2, 2003, 7:14 pm

No sylvus, I had never heard of Malice Green.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » December 4, 2003, 3:42 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/04/natio ... ner=GOOGLE

Without other factors, Dr. Parrott said, Mr. Jones, 41, would probably have survived the beating. At 350 pounds, Mr. Jones was severely overweight and had an enlarged heart from high blood pressure, Dr. Parrott said. He had also ingested cocaine, phencyclidine, or PCP, and methanol within three to five hours before the struggle. Cocaine is "a cardiac irritant" that could have caused abnormal heart rhythms, Dr. Parrott added.

The coroner's report "shows the police were responsible for his death," said Juleana Frierson, chief of staff for the Black United Front, a civil rights group. "We still have a problem in Cincinnati," Ms. Frierson said. "We need a cultural change in the police department. These policemen are still allowed to kill."

It's ignorant assholes like this that piss me off. You want me to respect your civil rights campaign? Don't be blind to the truth and quit being fucking hypocrits.

"What was done to provoke him to become that angry in such a short period of time?" Mr. Lawson asked at a news conference.

At the conference, Mr. Jones's aunt described him as a "friendly, jolly, happy-go-lucky" father of two who was never violent or mean. "He was a big guy and I'm going to dearly, dearly miss those juicy hugs and that fat fuzzy face," said the aunt, Diane Payton. "He was the sweetest man you've ever seen."

Yeah, until he got hopped up on PCP.

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/pcp/effects.html

Additional effects were frequently noted during clinical tests, such as feelings of estrangement, lonliness, negativism, and hostility.

These effects may include defective perceptual discrimination, concrete thinking, psychomotor retardation, distractibility, alteration of body image, loss of body boundaries, and a profound sense of unreality.

I still remember stories told to me by a South Caroline State Trooper at a summer camp many years ago. The poor bastard he and some other officers were trying to detain was naked, wielding a knife. Guy cut off his own johnson and said, "Come get me coppers." Perps up on PCP do some crazy shit.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 4, 2003, 4:32 am

Shaerra wrote:The comparison is that they were both loaded on drugs, they were both big men, and they both attacked cops before being subdued. You can take a few seconds of ANY footage and turn it into the opposite of what it really is. You can take 5 seconds of Challenger footage and make it look like a successful liftoff. I would ask you to stop playing the retard, but I'm starting to believe it's no act.

Edit: Oh yeah, and they were both black, which is the only reason it ever made it on the news. If it had been a white man in either case, you never would have heard about it.

I'm curious why you argue with me? You're such a clueless fucking idiot that it just seems like a waste of both our times.

Anyway, the officers that assaulted Rodney King broke procedure about two dozen times when they used their tonfas about his head, face and neck/throat. Any expert - black or white - on proper police procedure will tell you that that is not the way to subdue anyone. It is also not proper procedure to keep hitting someone when they are curled up in a fetal position on the ground covering their head because six cops are hitting it. I'm sure that is ok by you though because watching a nigger get his due on TV was probably pretty gratifying.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 4, 2003, 4:53 am

I have seen on a tv program the use of the foam spray. It seems pretty incapacitating from what was shown. And as far as I know, it is still being tested (USMC I believe). As far as pepper spray, I agree with the above, it is better to shock the rioter who isn't really angry about anything 'cept the shortage of unlooted stores than someone who is truly angry and out for blood.

As far as which 'non-lethal' method is best, I would say the club. Bean bags will knock someone down, but once the shock is gone from the "HOLY SHIT I BEEN SHOT", the perp, if motivated, will get up and continue (albeit he will most likely have some internal bleeding).

Personally, I would rather take a shot behind the knees with a club than a severe amount of voltage through the ticker....

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 4, 2003, 9:58 am

Fallanthas wrote: Less-than-lethal is a misnomer also. Last time I looked, there were about 15 deaths attributed to rubber bullets since they were introduced and maybe half that number attributed to bean bag rounds.

When they refer to rubber bullets, are they bullets made entirely of rubber designed to be non-lethal or just coated in rubber to prevent ricocheting off of walls and the like? For some reason, I always thought it was the latter.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » December 4, 2003, 10:12 am

I hate the fact that papers get to write the story today of: "Death Ruled a Homocide". It just fuels the fire. It only takes a small portion of brain to realize that homocide indicates a death caused by something other than natural causes. Now people get to read a headline that condemns the cops. Just plain wrong in this case.

My only thought on all these police brutality cases is this: Don't break the fucken law, and you won't have to deal with it. Black, white, hispanic, jew, asian, etc, it doesnt fucken matter...just don't break the law. And yes, this man broke the law; drugs and assault.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 4, 2003, 11:24 am

From professor Chris Rock, how NOT to get your ass kicked by the police.

http://www.sokissable.com/chrisrock.htm

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 4, 2003, 12:52 pm

The homicide death ruling is more of a cae of a coroner who has to fill in the blanks on a death certificate than any type of accusation. He can't exactly list this one as death by natural causes.

Chidoro,

"Rubber bullets" or baton rounds are usually some type of a ballistic steel or plastic coated with rubber. Inside 15 yards or so they are almost as lethal as a live round. They also have shitty flight, meaning you hit the guy next to your perp in the teeth about as often as what you were aiming at.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 4, 2003, 2:06 pm

Yea I have read several times about Palestinian deaths at the hands of rubber Israeli bullets. They are by no means fullproof.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » December 4, 2003, 3:06 pm

Clear and Present Danger, Krim?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » December 4, 2003, 3:54 pm

Fiction aside (even though it was a great book), the Israelis have used baton rounds for quite a whil.

There 'reported' death toll from them is up to around 40....

VeeshanVault

Rodney King redux?

Rodney King redux?

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