Jesus vs. the RIAA

[kyoukan]

I thought this was kind of funny:

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/8659

A Christian view of file sharing.
Posted by leflaw on October 27, 2003 at 7:30 AM (printer friendly)


My e-mail to them: 10/17/2003

Pillar,
Hi My name is Bobby, and I am on your mailing list, I also run the Web site, and file sharing program "ZPoC". ZPoC is a Christian music only download p2p with the best chat/ministry rooms on the net. ZPoC is not very well know, we only have about 300 people in a room at 1 time. What I need to know is, do you want me to tell the people of ZPoC not to share any of Pillars music, or just the latest release?
My opinion about file sharing... I do not see that it will hurt "Christian" music at all.. if anything it helps people to find out about new groups, or new music. In turn you will aquire new fans (If you release good music). It also allows people to listen to the message that God gave you to share with others. Some kids are not able to go out and get all of the new release, seems "Christian" parents are more willing to buy secular music for their kids than Christian music. True there are those that only download to fill their computer, and they probably wouldn't buy the CD anyways. I truely believe that there are far more honest people who will go out and buy the latest release, and go to the concerts, when they are able to. Please vist ZPoC, download/install the software and see for your self what we have going on. Please let me know asap, so I can post your response on our web site, and make sure that we respect your decision.

In Christ (who is always listening),
Bobby
ZPoC Christian Music Network



Pillar Response: 10/21/2003
Hey whats up bobby. honestly dude file sharing is against the law man. many people are getting sued right now for things just like this and mainstream companies who file share are getting shut down. so as a Christian why would you even think about bending rules and laws? there is no excuse, even if you think its for sharing the Word of God. there are legal and proper ways to share Gods word. So please dont allow Pillar files to be shared on your site and please pray about the whole site in general.
late, kalel
pillar@pillarmusic.com



ZPoC: 10/21/2003
Please respect this request and remove all of Pillar's music from your shared files.


(modified 10/25/2003 This comment is not directed direct toward Pillar, but to all groups/people.)
(Opinion) Seems to me that if a band is truely in it for God then wouldn't they want everyone to have a chance to listen to the message God gave them to sing?
Thank You,
Bobby

Pillar Response: 10/24/2003
you never asked our persmission to file share out music in the first place. so basically youve been involved with letting people steal our music. you dont steal to spread Gods word. I cant walk into a book store and steal a pile of Bibles to pass them out to nonbelievers. There is a proper way to get those Bibles and get them out to people. just as there is a proper way to get christian music out in peoples hands. it starts with asking the owner of the music's (the record label and band) permission.

im thinking about talking to all the major managers in Christian music and the RIAA and letting know about your site. -kalel


Pillar Response: 10/24/2003
oh yeah you can email me back here on my personal account. i just have a problem with you questioning our motives and us as Christians when you are the one dealing in a shady program (file sharing). thats on thing, but then to post all that and your response for all to see (questioning our faith) is a really bad deal. Thats not would Christ would do. Christ wouldnt bring down other Christians and make them look bad to the world. -kalel

Fowler and Associates Response: 10/24/2003
hey Bobby, I have been made aware of your site although you make a good point it is still upsetting and illegal. Pillar spreads the word of God by playing shows and ministering to kids one on one and answering emails until 4am. Your blatant disrespect of the band by saying they are against downloading is not only defamation of character (which if it is not removed You will hear from our legal representation) it is ludacrous. What your point is has no bearing, it is like saying let's steal bibles from a church to pass out to unsaved people. The industry lost 9 billion dollars last year and is in the biggest market deficit in history because of illegal p2p sharing. It not only effects the musicians, but the record company employees, people working at the stores, cd manufacturing plants, trucking companies, all the way down to a mom and pop record store.

Sony laid off 1,400 music employees in the last 6 months, so some guy had to go home and tell his little girl that they have to move and they don't have any money. It all seems innocent while your at your computer doesn't it.

I really can't believe a Christian would have a p2p site but I guess that is between you and God. Pillar is about getting kids saved and have had more kids saved from their ministry than an illegal p2p site. The bible clearly states that we should obey the laws. I would expect that you would as a "Christian".

I am notifying the RIAA and EMI of your site. Maybe they will not sue you for $20 million like napster but only $17,000 like the college kids who started that one p2p site. Because if you haven't heard IT IS ILLEGAL.

Jason Fowler
Artist Management
580-774-2665
580-774-2480 fax
http://www.musicunited.org

Shutting Down 10/25/2003
I cannot afford to fight this, so I have no choice but to shut ZPoC Down. Sorry folks, I have greatly enjoyed the ministry we have shared over the last 2 years. Please continue to support the artist, and may God Bless You!

In Christ,
Bobby

More e-mails...

To Fowler and Associates and Pillar: 10/25/2003

The quote was not directed at Pillar rather all bands/people.. There is no need for you to push this, I have closed ZPoC.com. We had a great ministry going there, and I do not believe it hurt Christian Music 1 bit.. What hurt Christian music was bad music last year, anyways I am an individual, who was a family, and only trying to help spread christian music to places or people it has not reached before.


"Your blatant disrespect of the band by saying they are against downloading is not only defamation of character (which if it is not removed You will hear from our legal representation) it is ludacrous."
How is this Defamation of Character?



"just as there is a proper way to get christian music out in peoples hands. it starts with asking the owner of the music's (the record label and band) permission."
If you will look at my first e-mail, you will see that I asked for your permission..

Bobby

Fowler and Associates Response: 10/24/2003
Because the statement as it is set up on the site betrays the band in a manner that shows a view of them not wanting to spread the word of God, which is false, and that the band is against fans and free music. Metallica won a similar law suit against Napster during the RIAA vs. Napster INC.

We are not against free music, we have music on MP3.com and a few other places. But MP3.com pays artist royalties through the advertisements taken on the site. There are legal ways of doing what you were trying to do. The fact of the matter is a person who is not a Christian is not going to do a search for BY the Tree because they have never heard of them. Christian radio is a place they can hear music for free and Christian radio pays ASCAP and BMI royalties. We just have to look that if it is a Ministry that God will bless, I'm pretty sure it will have to be in the context of the law.

Thanks for shutting the site down and maybe God will give you a legal way of spreading his Word.
Jason Fowler
Artist Management

To Fowler And Associates
You apparently live in an area where you have a Christian music radio staion, so you are very fortunate. Howerver if you live in Yugoslavia, and many other parts of the world, ZPoC was the only way for them to listen to christian music and share it with their friends.

In your first e-mail you said.. "Pillar is about getting kids saved and have had more kids saved from their ministry than an illegal p2p site. "Since when did 1 life not become important? ZPoC has been instrumental in changing several lifes, either helping people through personal relationships, preventing suicides, (yes 1 lady has spent many hours on ZPoC and phone counseling atleast 3 people when they were ready to give in. I personally have sent bibles to several kids who had never read 1, but in church. We have taken young kids and made them into Godly leaders within our communty. It is very sad that A "Christin" would outright threatn another Christian because they do not fully understand what we are doing, and you are too blind to see.

Christian Music and the message of Christ should not be limited! Christian Music should not be under the same laws in which secular music is. The whole point of Secular music is to make money. I truely believed that Christian music should be heard by all including those who do not have a radio station, or local bookstore.

Bobby

[Karae]

Pretty sad when your lawyer can't spell ludicrous correctly.

Addendum;
Re: 10 Commandments
Thou shalt not p2p fileshare. Not even Christian rock.

I'm kind of confused about why the guy is even slightly worried about RIAA or EMI when he's living in Yugoslavia. They can't touch him there.

Not that I'm gonna lose sleep over being deprived of access to crappy Christian rock.

[Kguku]

I'm kind of confused about why the guy is even slightly worried about RIAA or EMI when he's living in Yugoslavia. They can't touch him there.

But God can strike him dead for p2p!

heh.

It was an amusing read.

[Pahreyia]

I play teh "cristin" rawk for teh monies! Gawd loves him some royalties.

[Siji]

The industry lost 9 billion dollars last year and is in the biggest market deficit in history because of illegal p2p sharing.

And the propeganda machine continues!

[masteen]

The industry lost 9 billion dollars last year and is in the biggest market deficit in history because of illegal p2p sharing.

And the propeganda machine continues!

Well, it certainly wasn't because they churned out a mountain of souless, homogenized shit!

[Burke]

Jesus was a blues man anyway.

[Chidoro]

That was a pisser. Funny how some listeners feel the people who make music are somehow magnanimous and don't just do it for the money, regardless of genre. Probably one too many "Real music" Bud commercials slamming into their skulls or something.


Dolts sounded like Bill & Ted impersonators in their e-mails.

[Zamtuk]

The music industry lost 9 million dollars because the music fucking sucks lately. That makes baby jesus cry.

[Fairweather Pure]

The music industry lost 9 million dollars because the music fucking sucks lately. That makes baby jesus cry.

I haven't even downloaded a new song since I can remember. I hope you realize the only reason the music within the past year or so is bad, is only because of filthy file swappers like yourself. You see, now the record companies cannot scour the planet for amazing talent like they used too because they have no money.

You may not realize it, but the day the music died was when you DLed "Head Over Heels" by the GoGo's. A hurricane triggered by a butterflie's wings.



PS: Swapping songs via peer to peer is no different than books and your local library. Anyone can go get, read, lend, photo copy, or what the fuck ever, from the library, yet somehow the book industry survives. Go figure.

[Kargyle]

The difference is you don't have to leave your house to DL music. You do have to leave your house to go to the library and check a book out. After all, people are going to be as lazy as they can get away with. I think the majority of people are just going to go buy a book that they really want, rather than check it out at the library, because, they have have to leave their house to get the book either way, and generally a book store is closer than the library for most people. For music however, what is closer than your own computer, you don't have to leave your house, and you don't have to pay, what could be better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the record industry, and I don't like how they are handling the p2p file swapping that is going on. But, too say that becauase they have crappy business practices, and they don't give deals to the bands that you think are good gives you the right to steal from them is just silly.

Also, I don't believe for one second that the industry lost 9 billion dollars because of file swapping, but I do believe it has had some impact on the industry. Remember, a lot of people on these boards say that they will still go and buy music that they really like, so the industry isn't really in any danger as long as they release good music, but the problem is, most people won't go buy music when they can get it for free online, no matter what. That attitude is dangerous to the record industry.

And fuck this thread for making sound like some record industry propagandist.

[Truant]

PS: Swapping songs via peer to peer is no different than books and your local library. Anyone can go get, read, lend, photo copy, or what the fuck ever, from the library, yet somehow the book industry survives. Go figure.

Stephen King did an experimental project with a book for download based on honor system donations. He did state upfront what he expected was way more than reasonable for donations ($1 per user), and qualified by saying if expectations were met (the goal was only half of the $1 per user) he would continue releasing parts for download, and if not, he would trash the project. He trashed it in the second installment as I recall. This was two-ish years ago...so details may be slightly fuzzy, but damn close.

Random aside, but just thought I'd throw that around about the book thing.

[Zamtuk]

I havent downloaded a song in like 3 months. Well, I did download the new Outkast song, but then purchased the cd the day it came out.

[Rivera Bladestrike]

I find it funny reading these messages, trying to mix the christian way, god, royalties, RIAA, and lawyers all into the same subject!

Anyway, i would probaly say I'm one of the problematic people, I have a ton of songs, never bought a CD, but on the other hand, I never bought a CD before hand either, and probaly would never have gotten any CD by actually buying CDs. I'm just too lazy and I enjoy having that extra 20 in my wallet. My friend buys 3 CDs a week on average and has well over 2000 CDs, if you put that together, thats about $30,000 in about 6-7 years time. If CDs were to drop in price, since the damn CD itself costs pennies to record companies rather than 15 bucks or so...

I'd much rather burn his CDs and pay just for the CD itself than spend 30 grand for 5 songs I like and 8 shitty ones.

[Sionistic]

Kinda strange how last night's new southpark was pretty much the exact same topic, well a little different, but pretty close.