Justice in Canada ?

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Atokal
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Justice in Canada ?

Post by Atokal »

Cop rips ruling

Child-porn sentence riles officer

By TRACY MCLAUGHLIN, SPECIAL TO THE TORONTO SUN
Fri, September 19, 2003


A member of the OPP Child Pornography unit is outraged the Ontario Court of Appeal shot down a Crown's attempt to appeal a house arrest given to a Newmarket man convicted of possession and distribution of "vile and disgusting" child pornography.

The porn was so repulsive it caused the Crown to weep and the sentencing judge to go home and take a shower after viewing it.

Randy Weber, 43, was convicted last February of possession and distribution of images of little children being bound, gagged, and forced to have sex with men.

He was given a conditional sentence of 14 months -- otherwise known as house arrest.

Among the images viewed in court by Justice Roy Bogusky, one revealed a four-year-old child weeping and struggling, with hands bound and her neck leashed with a dog collar, while an adult male sexually assaulted her. Another image revealed an eight-year-old girl, tied, gagged, blindfolded and hung upside down. A video clip with sound revealed a toddler who could be heard weeping and yelling "stop, stop, stop" while a man assaulted him.

Court heard Weber unknowingly sent undercover police in Ohio some of the photos in an Internet chat room where Weber sometimes masqueraded as a 13-year-old.

Crown attorney Michael Demczur and Gillian Roberts tried, but failed, to get a jail sentence, arguing "the trial judge fundamentally failed to grasp the vile nature of the offences ... and failed to give adequate consideration to the sentencing principles of general deterrence and denunciation" to the general public. The judgment, delivered by appeal court judge Kathryn Feldman, noted the defence expert witness testified Weber is not a pedophile and the Crown did not produce evidence contrary to that evidence. She also noted Weber has suffered, is out of work, and is now estranged from his family and suicidal. But OPP Det.-Sgt. Frank Goldschmidt says a house arrest is nothing more than a "slap on the wrist" and he believes the case should be taken to the Supreme Court of Canada.

"Conditional sentences are nothing but a joke," he said. "You can sit around your house and watch TV, you can go out and if you get caught, all you have to do is tell the officer you're job hunting."

The maximum sentence for possession of child porn is five years in prison; distribution can earn 10 years in prison.


and in a related article.....
JUDGE SUES RADIO HOST FOR $3M

THE TORONTO STAR
Thursday, September 25, 2003
BETSY POWELL
STAFF REPORTER

An Ontario judge is seeking $3 million in damages from Q107 morning show host John Derringer, the radio station and owner for falsely accusing him of being a "disgrace" to the justice system and society over the sentencing of a man who pleaded guilty to possession and distributing child pornography.

The lawsuit by Justice Richard Schneider, of the Ontario Court of Justice, is a rare case involving a judge and the media.

"It's a very serious libel," said lawyer Julian Porter, who is representing Schneider. "It's improper for a judge to be attacked in this sort of way. Derringer's talk ... was a libellous, untrue rant."

In their statement of defence, the defendants say Derringer's remarks were meant "without actual malice and without gross negligence" and were part of a daily segment called Tool of the Day, featuring his comments on people "ranging from royalty to public officials to parliamentary dignitaries." Derringer could not be reached for comment yesterday.

The statement of claim includes a transcript of comments by Derringer on May 29, the day after Schneider sentenced Yong Jun Kim to a conditional sentence of nine months house arrest and 200 hours community service.

The 20-year-old pleaded guilty to possessing and distributing child pornography.

"Richard Schneider you are a disgrace ... and as much as I would like to see it, I can't bring myself to hope that one day it is your kid who is doing what was performed on the videos in Yong Jun Kim's possession," reads the document quoting Derringer.

Also named in the suit is Corus Entertainment Inc., which owns an interest in Q107 Radio.
I am sickened by these slap on the wrist sentences, how can we say we are a civilized society when we cannot protect our children from these animals.

Capital Punishment is far too lenient for these bastards.
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Post by Kguku »

You forgot about the case about the guy in BC about 2 years ago who was acquitted of his child pornography charges as he was saying it was art.

Couple that with our sick countries age of consent being 14, and I say Canada is the new sicko haven!

Want some candy?
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

14? Good grief. The cop has the right idea, too bad the system failed to properly deal with this scumbag. There is a bright side, maybe Americas sickos will flea to Canada to bask in the lenient child porn sentences.
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Post by Atokal »

Krimson Klaw wrote:14? Good grief. The cop has the right idea, too bad the system failed to properly deal with this scumbag. There is a bright side, maybe Americas sickos will flea to Canada to bask in the lenient child porn sentences.
Yep Send us your terrorists, pederasts, and those too weak for honest work....
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Post by kyoukan »

age of consent in canada is 14 only if both parties are between the ages of 14 and 16. canada's consent laws are actually pretty complex but a decent rule of thumb is if you are over 16 its a pretty good idea to stay away from partners that are under 16.

sentences for possessing child pornography might be pretty light, but canada views the possession of child pornography differently than the manufacturing or distribution of it. I don't think prison is the appropriate place for someone who has been busted with child pornography in their possession. they are obviously mentally ill and a prison is _not_ going to rehabilitate them, nor is it going to deter them from re-offending. unless you plan on changing the laws and locking them up forever I would prefer a method of punishment that is going to be more effective at rehabilitation. 10 months house arrest and 200 hours community service does seem a tad light however. who the hell wants a sex offender working community service hours with them??

Canada's sentencing rate towards people who manufacture child pornography or actually molest children are reasonably long. There have been some pretty outrageously light sentences in the past but generally the courts are pretty hard. Canada generally has shorter sentences for just about all crimes across the board however because our penal system is more european style. Canada does lack a public registry for sex offenders but the police and the crown have access to a pretty extensive one.

I'm not sure where the terrorist comment comes from because I'm not aware of any problem with Canada being full of terrorists. I imagine your just being an apologist retard who gets some sort of gratification from hole sucking any americans you come across socially.
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Post by Kguku »

Actually it's very legal for someone who's say 30 to have sex with a 14 year old in Canada with consent, providing they are not in a position of trust, authority or a relationship of dependence.

Sick sick country.
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Post by kyoukan »

why is that sick? almost every country in world except the united states that would be perfectly legal.
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Post by Sionistic »

because if we do it here, it must be right :)
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Post by Atokal »

kyoukan wrote:age of consent in canada is 14 only if both parties are between the ages of 14 and 16. canada's consent laws are actually pretty complex but a decent rule of thumb is if you are over 16 its a pretty good idea to stay away from partners that are under 16.

sentences for possessing child pornography might be pretty light, but canada views the possession of child pornography differently than the manufacturing or distribution of it. I don't think prison is the appropriate place for someone who has been busted with child pornography in their possession. they are obviously mentally ill and a prison is _not_ going to rehabilitate them, nor is it going to deter them from re-offending. unless you plan on changing the laws and locking them up forever I would prefer a method of punishment that is going to be more effective at rehabilitation. 10 months house arrest and 200 hours community service does seem a tad light however. who the hell wants a sex offender working community service hours with them??

Canada's sentencing rate towards people who manufacture child pornography or actually molest children are reasonably long. There have been some pretty outrageously light sentences in the past but generally the courts are pretty hard. Canada generally has shorter sentences for just about all crimes across the board however because our penal system is more european style. Canada does lack a public registry for sex offenders but the police and the crown have access to a pretty extensive one.

I'm not sure where the terrorist comment comes from because I'm not aware of any problem with Canada being full of terrorists. I imagine your just being an apologist retard who gets some sort of gratification from hole sucking any americans you come across socially.
Nope not an apologist retard, just someone who believes that our immigration policies are fucked. When are you going to grow up and stop the infantile name calling?

Also would be interested in what you really mean by stating that people who possess kiddie porn are sick and need treatment. What about the molesters and distributors? Are they not sick as well according to your well rounded social scale and in need of therapy vs hardtime?

People who possess this crap are what keep the others in business.
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Post by kyoukan »

Atokal wrote:When are you going to grow up and stop the infantile name calling?
did I wake up in the fucking twilight zone this morning?
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Post by Kguku »

kyoukan wrote:why is that sick? almost every country in world except the united states that would be perfectly legal.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

A quick eyeballing seems to show that the average age of consent is 16.

It's sick, in my books, because someone in western society at the age of 14 generally is rather too immature, and easily influenced, to be able to make a decision of having sex with someone, let alone someone who could easily be the age of their parents.

16, in my books, is a reasonable age. Young, but if we're letting them drive at this age, sex is something they should be able to, though might not always, attempt in a responsible manner.
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Post by Atokal »

Kguku wrote:
kyoukan wrote:why is that sick? almost every country in world except the united states that would be perfectly legal.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

A quick eyeballing seems to show that the average age of consent is 16.

It's sick, in my books, because someone in western society at the age of 14 generally is rather too immature, and easily influenced, to be able to make a decision of having sex with someone, let alone someone who could easily be the age of their parents.

16, in my books, is a reasonable age. Young, but if we're letting them drive at this age, sex is something they should be able to, though might not always, attempt in a responsible manner.
/nod
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Post by Xzion »

if your over the age of like 17 its pretty damn disgusting and fucked up to have sex with a 14 year old no matter how legal it is in what country...

but technically im a statitory(sp) rapist for having sex with 17 year olds while being 18-19, so hook my child molesting ass up to the chair 8)
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Post by Kelshara »

That site is incorrect. In Norway it is 16 as the base age, but if both are under 16 it is 15. There are some other stuff that can push it down to 15 as well but that is the basic rule.

Edit: Took a closer look. It is interesting to see that girl/girl sex is illegal in Florida, guess the cops got their hands full during Spring Break :p
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Post by kyoukan »

so what happens to a girl between 14 and 16 that magically makes her more capable of deciding who she has sex with? I must have missed that part of biology.
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Post by Kguku »

kyoukan wrote:so what happens to a girl between 14 and 16 that magically makes her more capable of deciding who she has sex with? I must have missed that part of biology.
I'm guessing the same thing that makes someone capabale to drive a motor vehicle at the age of 16 and not the age of 14. :roll:
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Post by Kelshara »

See this is what I have never understood though..

In the US..
- You can drive a car at 16 (14 some places? ND?)
- Have sex at 16
- Join the army before 18
- Buy alcohol at 21?!?

That whole scenario just doesn't make sens to me..
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

You forgot that you can't e naked in any pictures until 18 as well. So you can have sex at 16 but you can't have a camera.
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Post by Winnow »

Kelshara wrote:See this is what I have never understood though..

In the US..
- You can drive a car at 16 (14 some places? ND?)
- Have sex at 16
- Join the army before 18
- Buy alcohol at 21?!?

That whole scenario just doesn't make sens to me..
Throw in legal guardian until age 18 as well. If I had to set an age for everything, I'd make it 18 to drink, have sex, vote and join the military...it's the same age your parents or legal guardian can give you the boot!

Unfortunately nothing is that simple. A specific age means nothing. It all depends on how much knowledge the person has gleaned from their parents, mentors, schools, etc. and also the quality of that information. Nothing magical happens at 18 or any age.
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Post by Xzion »

kyoukan wrote:so what happens to a girl between 14 and 16 that magically makes her more capable of deciding who she has sex with? I must have missed that part of biology.
what makes a girl between 12 and 14 different?, being that she already has her period by 12...
or 10 or 8...

be a bit complecated by idealy i would say 17- no lower then 14 ... between 18 and 19 you cant go under 16...20-21 cant go under 17 after that its 18 and up
Last edited by Xzion on September 29, 2003, 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Zamtuk »

This will help speed the conversation along.

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5680
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Post by Marbus »

Personally, from my work with kids, they are going to look up to and put almost (note I say almost) anyone older with more resources than them in a position of power which would make it illegal if I'm reading Kyou's post correctly.

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Post by Truant »

I thought you had to be 17 in the states? I never really bothered to care.

And as to those of you shouting age rules...some of us explored earlier than 16...we did it knowingly and consentually...even if it was illegal.
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Post by Raistin »

YOU SO LIE TRUANT!
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Post by Aaeamdar »

All of America's statutory age limits are stupidly high and rigid. Knowing consent should be the standard. I have no problems, under that standard with reasonalbe presumptions to be overcome - e.g. If someone under the age of 14 is having sex there is a rebuttable presumption that it was not with knowing consent. You just shift the burden. Over 14 - state has to prove lack of consent, under 14 defendant has to prove knowning consent. Likewise, if the age is set absurdly low, I have no problems with irrebutaable presumption - someone under the age of 8 can be irrebutably presumed to not have given knowing consent.

The way our laws are now, however, are just stupid. A product of old religious people not liking it when young folks are having fun.
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Post by Boogahz »

Age limits vary by state and sometimes have odd conditions...such as 17 as long as the other is no older than 19.
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Post by Silvarel Mistmoon »

Ok is the "Crown" the court in Canada?


I feel so much pain for those children. :cry:
I have a friend in Virginia who is about my age maybe a few years younger, her father would do those type of things to her, the hanging her upside down and such............he would invite others over also. This happen to her and her sisters.
As a adult she was addicted to drugs, her escape...........she did finally get cleaned up but her scars are soooo deep............

How any judge court or person can say that people like this can go free EVER I will never understand.


Rehabilitate according to Webster's ----
1.To restore to rank, reputation, etc. which one has lost 2. to put back in good condition 3. to bring or restore to a state of health, constructive activity, etc

Pedophile ----- an adult who is sexually attracted to young children

I don't truely believe you can rehabilitate a pedophile.
I have seen where with consent of a prisoner they can undergo a type of rehabilitation for being a pedophile, they hook wires up to their testicles and they are hooked up to tubes that go to their nose and show them images of children, every time they get turned on their is a chemicle sent thru the tubes in to their nose. This continues over several treatments until the pedophile no longer is turned on by the images of children. There was one of the prisoners in the footage that this never worked on him so he was considering being castrated.

I have read that in the US (not sure bout the other countries) that under the age of or the age of 14 and under it is considered molestation for case's against pedophiles. I don't know how correct this is but it was being debated because of the label of pedophile.
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Post by Chidoro »

Xzion wrote:17- no lower then 14 ... between 18 and 19 you cant go under 16...20-21 cant go under 17 after that its 18 and up
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Post by Zamtuk »

I believe the age of consent is 16 if you are within 4 years. 18 for anything else.
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Post by Forthe »

The laws and penalties for possession and distribution of child pornography are in place to try to stop the trade and rightfully so. But someone with perverse sexual fantasies\curiosities that looks at this crap and never reenacts it IRL is very different than someone that perpetrates these crimes against children. Some of you seem to be lumping them in the same camp.
-------------------
At 14 I was old enough to consent to sex. Actually I was actively pursuing it. I wasn't alone.

How many 14 year old males would not jump at the chance to have sex with an older woman they find attractive? Would it be rape if the 14 year old actively pursued it?

Is it just okay for males?
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Post by Deijah Vu »

'She also noted Weber has suffered, is out of work, and is now estranged from his family and suicidal.'

This is laughable by any standards. The fact that he's suicidal because he got caught with kiddie porn is a joke. Give the guy a gun and grease the trigger. If he's not a pedophile, why the hell is he in chat rooms acting as a 13 year old? Sounds like he's lookin for new skin.
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Post by Marbus »

Actually Forthe there have been a number of cases over the past 5 or 6 years where that did happen and the older women was accused of rape and molestation.

I agree whole heartedly though, when I was 12-14 there were a number of teachers, friends, etc... that I thought "I'd HIT IT!" Scary thought that they would have been at fault...

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Post by Xzion »

i wonder what would happen if a really beefed up 15 year old girl beat the shit outa a 21 year old guy and was able to rape him...
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Post by Sionistic »

The court would order the man to rape her mother to even it out
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