To cut or not to cut

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » September 25, 2003, 7:04 am

I am with Truant there, uncut and zero of the listed side effects apply to me. So I don't think you should consider those as a reason not to get him cut.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » September 25, 2003, 7:21 am

http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/Dea ... fm?id=9985

I really liked Dr. Dean's response on this.

DIFFERENCES: SEXUAL SATISFACTION OF WOMEN

Recent studies have found that sexually, circumcised men are different from intact men. The glans or tip of the intact penis is more sensitive. Circumcision removes the equivalent of 15 square inches of skin in the adult male. One study recently published in the British Journal of Urology found that intact men are more satisfying to their female lovers than circumcised men.

Gemily · Post by **Gemily** » September 25, 2003, 7:34 am

Hayley, save your baby a shit load of pain and discomford by having the circumcision done as a newborn. My little boy didnt have it done when he was still in the hospital because the fucking Doctor convinced me it wasnt medically necesary. BULL SHIT. When my little boy turned 4 years old, he got an infection in the foreskin, had to have emergency surgery to relieve the pressure the infected foreskin was doing on the glans. Worse part was when he woke up from the surgery, the horrible pain he was in, I'll never forget the screams.
If you have it done as a baby, they dont remember a thing.
*hug*

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 25, 2003, 7:45 am

The pediatricians finally admit the obvious: that there is considerable evidence that newborns experience extreme pain and significant stress during a circumcision which, unfortunately, is performed most of the time without any analgesia whatsoever.

Why it's taken so long for pediatricians to admit this obvious fact is a clear condemnation of previous circumcision policy. When I was in medical school, doctors tried to teach me that babies don't feel any pain.

Is this true or bullshit?

Gemily · Post by **Gemily** » September 25, 2003, 8:02 am

Its bullshit, I work in a hospital, have seen a few circumcisions done, they DO give them anestetics, twice, they make it numb first and then the actual anestetic.
And if in doubt, you have the right to witness the precedure, wich is performed in the nursery.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 25, 2003, 8:40 am

GRatz Hayley...

I'd have to say don't cut...

No particular reason to cause any extra stress on an infant...

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » September 25, 2003, 9:04 am

Good article there Kguku.

Fight for the skin!

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 25, 2003, 9:29 am

Cut, we don't remember any of it. You wait too long and it will be terribly painful. I don't recall be any more "stressed" than usual at 12 weeks of age because of it.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » September 25, 2003, 10:20 am

Congrats Hayley. Don't cut.

I am uncut. I rarely have a problem with smegma and I keep myself clean.

My wife likes it better uncut and I have never had a premature ejaculation. I have also never had a problem getting an erection even after being with my wife nearly 5 years now. The foreskin does make you more sensitive and it allows older men to have more erections easier for longer period of time. My wife is pretty amazed. She dated a previous man for 3 years that was cut and he had a lot of trouble getting erections later on in the relationship. My wife and I still have sex 3 to 4 times a week and I have no problems getting an erection, even if I am totally exhausted.

My wife and I have also discussed this and we will not have our kids circumcised. It is a barbaric custom that is rarely done outside the US and Israel. Many of my asian friends are disgusted with the thought that anyone would put their children through this. Just because a baby can't say "It hurts" doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Accidents do occur a lot more often than you might think as well. My wife, an RN, worked in the birthing center of a hospital and she saw at least two instances of the tip of a baby's penis being cut off during the circumcision. Now you got your circumcision and a fucked up penis to boot. Is it worth the risk?

Someone else mentioned this but uncut makes it hella easier to whack-off!

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 25, 2003, 10:35 am

Deward, 3-4 times a week is not uncommon. I am cut and do it every day, sometimes twice a day, and have been married for almost 13 years. Your wife just dated a loser before you, trust me. Him being cut had nothing to do with it. Sounds like you both are using his sucky bedroom prowess as a base for comparison, while that inflates the ego, it's not hte norm.

CalandraWindrose · September 25, 2003, 10:35 am

congrats Hayley!!

I was going to post along the lines of what Lalanae said but I think she mostly covered it - I have heard there are some studies which show increased cervical cancer and that type of thing in partners

on the issue of male versus female circumcision - don't even go there - the procedures and physical results aren't even in the same ball park nor do they have anything in common goal wise

Deward · Post by **Deward** » September 25, 2003, 11:07 am

Krimson Klaw wrote:Deward, 3-4 times a week is not uncommon. I am cut and do it every day, sometimes twice a day, and have been married for almost 13 years. Your wife just dated a loser before you, trust me. Him being cut had nothing to do with it. Sounds like you both are using his sucky bedroom prowess as a base for comparison, while that inflates the ego, it's not hte norm.

My wife and I both work 50+ hours a week and I am studying for a Master's degree. If we had more time we would probably have more sex. I could easily say that the amount of sex that you are having is pretty abnormal after 13 years of marriage. I would think that I am much closer to the norm than you are. I would rather not get into a dick waving contest though.

I am not saying that all cut people have a problem with erections, just what I know from personal experience. There have been studies suggesting penile erectile disfunction in individuals that are cut occurring more often than in those that are uncut. If necesary I will see if I can find the articles to prove my point. The point I want to make is that uncut penises are more sensitive and it is easier to get an erection for an uncut male. The foreskin protects the head of the penis from becoming dried out and "tough" from exposure to the elements. Kind of like how someones hands may become less soft after a large amount of use.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 25, 2003, 11:09 am

So almost every female and queer guy is for circumcision? I think the choice is clear: snip it.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 25, 2003, 11:27 am

Was not trying to insult you Deward, I was just saying that you and your wife having sex 3-4 times a week after a few years of marriage was NORMAL, and not abnormal simply based on her previous male partners lack of 'normalcy'.

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » September 25, 2003, 11:33 am

I say don't cut it.

I've had only experience with a handful of penises and only one was cut. It looked weird.
I can't believe these cleanliness and aestethics issues you people brought up. Smell? Cheesy stuff? I've seen cheesy stuff on myself when I had a yeast infection, I've never seen a guy with that problem. Maybe some people have a problem with excess production of this thing, some don't.
Skin or no skin shouldn't be a reason and motivation for a person to wash themself. And kids need to be taught clealiness just like they're taught how to tie their shoes, share with others and brush their teeth.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 25, 2003, 12:00 pm

I'm being perfectly honest when I say that when it comes to dick cheese, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I have never seen this, heard of it (other than VV circumcision threads), and never experienced it.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 25, 2003, 12:05 pm

Kids learn to tie their shoes these days? How many shoes have laces any more?

Seriously, you want your son to enjoy the beauty that is getting a hummer, you'll cut the damn thing. I can't tell you how many women I know that say they wouldn't go down with that extra skin flapping around

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 25, 2003, 12:07 pm

The stuff about the cutting off the head is why they do it 2 different ways now. In the string way there is a little plastic bulb that fits over the head for a couple of days. Dr's say it's less painful but I don't think they have the right population for the study...

Also the stuff about no pain IS bullshit. I was there watching and the Dr. who did it used a numbing substance (like what is in oragel) to number the penis before he did the shot. There is NO way I would let someone just cut on my child w/o anstheia (unless of course he it was the only way to save his life).

I still say cut. During the days after even though there is a little swelling (which is natural) there was almost no bleeding and when we would put more vasleen on it he never cried or acted like he was in pain after the first night.

Marb

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » September 25, 2003, 12:16 pm

I've also never had a problem with this dick cheese you speak of!

Sounds like most of the VV girls have dated guys who don't know how to take care of themselves and are turned off to uncut penises. I wouldn't base my decision on that if I were you, Hayley.

As far as I know, the studies about cervical cancer are old, dated, and wrong. Penile cancer may be true if you don't wash, but what the hell is so hard about washing once a day?

I voted undecided because I don't know what the benifits are to being cut, but I have never ever had a problem being uncut, it's not some disasterous thing to look down and notice that you're uncut, take it from me. As for locker rooms, never had a problem there either.

And years ago, when I would have been circumsised, they did not use any anesthesia at all. It went something like this: Strap the kid to a board, hand and feet, cut while the kid was screaming and crying, and be done with it. The reason I'm not cut is because when they explained this to my mother and showed her the bloodstained board, she dceided against it. Make sure they don't do it that way if you decided to get it done. Pain is pain whether you're a day old or 18 years old.

Kaelina · Post by **Kaelina** » September 25, 2003, 12:29 pm

http://www.nbc10.com/health/1808693/detail.html

The Skinny On 'Miracle' Wrinkle Cream
New Product Has Converts Despite Issues

POSTED: 7:39 p.m. EST November 26, 2002
UPDATED: 5:04 p.m. EST November 27, 2002

A new wrinkle cream that promises fabulous results. But the question everyone's asking is "what's in that cream?"

Barbara Blair says this new gel she's been using makes her face look a lot younger than the Retin-A and vitamin C creams she's been using.

"It's really tightened my skin. Firmed it. The little lines are much better. The texture is very appreciably different."

What Blair probably doesn't know is that a key ingredient in the cream is the foreskin of a circumcised baby.

The skin that would otherwise be tossed away.

I wonder if they get permission from the parents first. =o

Post by **Sylvus** » September 25, 2003, 12:37 pm

Truant wrote:I'm being perfectly honest when I say that when it comes to dick cheese, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I have never seen this, heard of it (other than VV circumcision threads), and never experienced it.

Smegma is an actual word that is in the dictionary in reference to it, so it's probably not that uncommon. I'm sure that a proper cleaning regimen, as you've said, is more than enough to combat the problem, but the problem does exist.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 25, 2003, 12:53 pm

i didnt have to make the call myself this time (we are having a girl), but i think i would lean towards not doing it.

just because some maniac who thought god told him to KILL his own son circumsized his 13 yr old son with a fucking rock 3500 years ago doesnt really sway me to go that route.

i've read a bit about it, and if we were having a son i'd probably read more, but to me inflicting pain on an infant should have a damn good reason.

the only health issue that i have heard stems from one study suggesting that women whose spouse was uncircumsized were more likely to have humin papilloma (sp.) virus infections in their vagina, which is not that unusual, but there is a correlation with cervical cancer. at any rate, if i recall the conclusions were not definitive.

as for penile cancer, i've never even heard of that, so i don't know.

basically i guess the foreskin evolved as a protective thing, so not really that needed nowadays since we dont run naked through brush. but that being said, unless there is a real, valid reason to do the procedure i dont plan on doing it to my son.

tough call though.

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » September 25, 2003, 1:30 pm

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that unsnipped is obviously more prone to infection than snipped for the same reason women or even my puppy's ears are more prone to infection - it is warm, protected and great breeding ground for infection. With some education and care those risks are minimal though.

It might have been the wording of your post (or the way I read it) but that doctor sounds too much like an evangelist to me

If you want real advice, I'd seek a second or third opinion from another doctor. I don't agree that any doctor should recommend their personal preference to a patient for something like this. I believe they should discuss the options, facts and risks, then let you make a well educated decision with their help.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » September 25, 2003, 1:56 pm

It also doesnt take rocket science to know if you shower at least once a day. You wont be dirty or get dick cheese. Just because some women and guys * how can you smell dick cheese when SHIT is on it in the first place?* on here have no choice in men, and had smelly dicks on them isnt a common case.Sorry you teamed up with some random guy who decided soap and a shower isnt healthy. You can smell no matter if your cut or not.

You hardly see men complain about how big some womans vag lips are,or how big her clit is. And if you do, 9 times out of 10 its a self indulged asshole. Same with females.

I say dont cut. Let him have the choice when hes older.Theres NO BAD effects to not doing it at all.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 25, 2003, 2:15 pm

I like a huge clit, consider me self indulged.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 25, 2003, 2:20 pm

Well, since sucking dick is done mostly to please you, I'd say calling the chick self-indulgant is retarded.

Also, it's one thing to say that your unsnipped cock doesn't stink while the closest you've ever gotten to it is the time you tried to suck it yourself. It's another thing entirely to have it right in your face.

Krimson Klaw wrote:I like a huge clit, consider me self indulged.

I like a pierced clit. It's like a map to the lovebutton superhighway.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 25, 2003, 2:24 pm

Without going into the land of TMI. A circumcision performed with the slightest smallest bit of imperfection can make life very unfun.

Male becomes erect
Male uses erection
Skin being too taunt, rips
Male hurts for 2 weeks

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » September 25, 2003, 2:25 pm

don't cut it ! let him decide later in life if he wants to get it cut or not ... why is it your choice to chop up your sons dick? let it be!

i wish my mom wouldn't of done it

the bitch

Ducru · Post by **Ducru** » September 25, 2003, 2:34 pm

A. If you leave it up to the child, and he decides he'd rather be circumsized later, do you think he'll actually do it? What man is going to let ANYone come near their dick with a knife?

and the fun part...

B. I actually know a guy who found a lima-bean tucked away in his little dick purse one night after a torrid session of anal-sex with his girlfriend... Needless to say things were different after that.

So cleanliness not an issue? Maybe not if careful, but I know for a fact when I wake up in the morning the only leftovers around will be in the fridge.

Ducru

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 25, 2003, 2:36 pm

OMFG!!!

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » September 25, 2003, 2:38 pm

well bud... first of all you use a condom when your fucking someone in the ass for obvious reasons .... and if you don't ... wash your dick afterwards for crying out loud

Post by **Sylvus** » September 25, 2003, 2:40 pm

Kylere wrote:Without going into the land of TMI.

Perhaps you didn't read the whole thread, but we've been on photo safari of the land of TMI since the first few posts. I think we've already seen most of the animals that inhabit it, but the scariest ones usually come out near the end.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 25, 2003, 2:41 pm

That is the nastiest thing I have ever, ever, ever heard. ever.

-Lol I cannot resist to be even nastier, so did he eat it?

rhyae · Post by **rhyae** » September 25, 2003, 3:05 pm

Grats you and hubby.
And remember, if you have him snipped, it's vaseline on the penis, and alchohol on the umbilical cord, not the other way around like my friend did on accident >< poor baby.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » September 25, 2003, 3:11 pm

Well damn, did he tell his gf to start chewing her food then`? Done anal sex and all that myself, but i have never ever found any small presents tucked away in my dick pouch after that.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 25, 2003, 3:15 pm

i will never put my dick in a pooper again.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 25, 2003, 3:47 pm

I'm not a big fan of using my penis as a pooper scooper, but I've done it by request. My advice is wash thoroughly BEFORE and after.

You hardly see men complain about how big some womans vag lips are,or how big her clit is. And if you do, 9 times out of 10 its a self indulged asshole.

the saddleflaps.

This thread is A+. And Hayley, whatever decision you make I'm sure will be the wrong one.

Ducru · Post by **Ducru** » September 25, 2003, 3:48 pm

Deward wrote:I am uncut. I rarely have a problem with smegma and I keep myself clean.

I AM cut and never have to even worry about smegma... Rarely is one time too many I would think. But Grats on jackin it easily!

Ducru

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » September 25, 2003, 4:11 pm

I am uncut and have never ever had any of the above problems...ever!

I am sure Hayley will make the right choice though, I just feel rather strongly about doing this for the wrong reasons or because of ignorance as to the risks and whatnot.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » September 25, 2003, 4:26 pm

from the american academy of pediatrics site:

http://www.aap.org/policy/re9850.html

that is the link to their policy statement regarding circumcision.

the best piece of advice -

Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided.

it's a long ass read, but there's some interesting stuff in there. for instance, almost all of the UTI studies are all focused on infant males less than 1 year of age, because that's when the majority of the UTI's for boys will occur. which makes sense - diapers and all. but that doesn't mean that your son will have UTI's every other week for the rest of his life because of that dirty, evil foreskin. it also says some of those samples are collected via catheter and can test positive for UTI even if they're not. premature infants are included in the studies, and they have problems fighting infection to begin with. they are also unable to breast feed (not sure where you stand on that) which in at least one study was shown to decrease chances of infection three fold.

there's also some info in there about the studies on AIDS and penile cancer. there are cells present in the foreskin that does make it easier to contract AIDS. of course, if you're unfing HIV positive people without like 4 condoms on then you're fucking crazy. penile cancer is also linked to cleanliness. they didn't say anything about cervical cancer in there. lots of info on the details of the various reports, how samples were collected, from which countries, etc.

anyway, the men that have posted here thus far who still have their foreskin intact claim to not have problems. and i really don't know anything about an odor or "dick cheese" lol. i didn't research that, and i don't have any "hands on" experience with either problem. maybe i just got lucky and ended up with the cleanest uncircumsized male on earth.

ramble ramble...

i guess just read a lot, talk to your doctor and go with your gut instinct! good luck chickie!

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » September 25, 2003, 6:23 pm

Only thing I'll add is this...

Whatever you do, don't convince yourself to not cut just because you want your son to have a choice in the matter. As most have pointed out, and I concur, there is no way in hell that a normal man would decide to circumcise as an adult.

This IS your decision, and I suggest you research it thouroughly.

Keep in mind too that Smegma can occur in circumcised males as well, so don't base your decision JUST on that either.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » September 25, 2003, 6:36 pm

i don't see why they allow people to do this to their children ... are we allowed to sterlilize them while there babies also? is that legal? can a parent go "snip my kids balls while your at it"?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 25, 2003, 6:39 pm

Drasta, you are making sophomoric analogies. Go away.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 25, 2003, 6:56 pm

Get it done, Hayley.

My father wasn't circumsized and has been through three rather painful infections in his nether region as a direct result. If you choose to leave him uncut, be aware that you are going to have to stress hygeine to the point he hates you for repeating yourself, then hope he never gets lazy.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 25, 2003, 7:07 pm

heh nobody ever had to stress hygiene with me, guess if you're born a slob.. shrug.

And Krimson, how are his comments any worse or more BS than this?

Cut, his future wife will thank you.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 25, 2003, 7:29 pm

Sterilization is not in the same league as circumcision. JUST LIKE "female circumcision" is not in the same league as male. For boys it, as some would say, can heighten the sexual experience. While the female circumcision is to keep women from enjoying sex at all by actually removing the most sensitive area... it would be more akin to cutting off the head on a little boy.

Sterilization has nothing to do with sexuality, although if you cut someone's balls off there WILL be problems but is rather to keep people from procreating.

Just because we evolved far enough to realize "hey I don't need that home-made turtleneck covering my package, I'll do that with underwear" isn't a negative thing.

Marb

Shashonna · Post by **Shashonna** » September 25, 2003, 7:35 pm

My son is 3 now, but we had the procedure done. They told us there wasnt a reason to but We decided to. Just our opnion. He wont remember it at all and no they dont just hack it off. But if he decides later oh yeah I bet it would hurt so much more

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » September 25, 2003, 8:29 pm

Ducru wrote:A. If you leave it up to the child, and he decides he'd rather be circumsized later, do you think he'll actually do it? What man is going to let ANYone come near their dick with a knife?

and the fun part...

B. I actually know a guy who found a lima-bean tucked away in his little dick purse one night after a torrid session of anal-sex with his girlfriend... Needless to say things were different after that.

So cleanliness not an issue? Maybe not if careful, but I know for a fact when I wake up in the morning the only leftovers around will be in the fridge.

Ducru

ROFL!

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » September 25, 2003, 8:51 pm

not snipping it will just cause more work and effort for your son later in life, yeah, you can keep up with hygene etc. but wouldn't it be easier if he didn't have to?

Aethelstan · Post by **Aethelstan** » September 25, 2003, 9:08 pm

My wife and I are having a baby and have researched this heavily as well. After reading all the literature, the best advice we received was cut or uncut is pretty much all the same - in which case, cut or don't cut depending on what the father (or brothers) are. That way the child won't feel odd about his penis shape when he is growing up.

Aeth

VeeshanVault

To cut or not to cut

Circumcision or not?

Cut

Re: Cut