Mid-level car purchase question

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 20, 2003, 3:21 pm

Ok, looked up a 1996 Pontiac Sunfire and used the highest ratings for any version made that year and compared that to a 2003 Hyundai Tiburon Gt.

The numbers I am going to give are only one factor on your rates. The way they are listed are in this order: Liability, Comprehensive, Collision, Personal Injury Protection. They are based on the state of Ohio.

96 Sunfire 6 - 2 - 7 - 11
03 Sunfire 2 - 4 - 9 - 8
03 Tiburon 7 - 9 - 13 - 14

These numbers are basically how they will affect the rates. This isn't a multiplier, there is not a "max", and there is really no way to easilly explain them over my break as they *are* complicated in how they are determined and used. Basically you are definitely going to see an increase in your premium on the Tiburon due to the cost of repairs and safety factors compared to your current vehicle. As you can see, you would be better off with an 03 Sunfire than an 03 Tiburon if that interested you.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2003, 4:58 pm

So what Pils means is that he basicly wants a riceburner? heh

Syenye Squirrellyelf · September 20, 2003, 5:03 pm

a hyundai with a kit is still a hyundai.

i

my camry.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 20, 2003, 5:40 pm

Pils: Think about why you're spending money. If you drive your car 7 miles to the gym and that's about it, why would you need a spoiler? Why would you need a body kit? Hell, why do you even need a new car? If you're not doing the sort of driving that requires performance, why not just get something cheap and reliable?

Gnomies · Post by **Gnomies** » September 20, 2003, 5:46 pm

buy american is all i can say

american cars suck

CalandraWindrose · Post by **CalandraWindrose** » September 20, 2003, 7:14 pm

I've got to go with the used vs. new on this one.

I just bought a "new" car i.e. new to me

I got a 2001 with low mileage - a really nice car I love with tons of options for less than half of what it cost new and with a dealer extended warranty

I could not have afforded a comparable brand new car - would have been 25k at least

keep your eyes open - you have to check back often as used stock turns over

I also used a web site to take a look at insurance quotes but I can't recall it now - I'm sure if you do some searches you can find similar

also and maybe someone already said this - consumer reports can give you some idea of repair histories etc

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » September 20, 2003, 11:33 pm

I have a 99 Nissan Altima and I love it. Not a performance car by any means, although I did some modifications to increase performance, steering, suspension and acceleration, and I just got Altezza tails for it (NO GT-R badge for it thx

).

Best thing about it is it's been paid for since 2000

And it was made in Tennessee, so I "bought American"

If you buy any car that can be pigeonholed as a "performance" or "sport" model (and the insurers know by the VIN), expect a hefty increase in your auto insurance premium. Also, the police pay extra attention to flashy cars so your chance of a ticket will go up. That Tiburon with the body kit screams "pull me over".

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 21, 2003, 1:28 am

Sueven wrote:Pils: Think about why you're spending money. If you drive your car 7 miles to the gym and that's about it, why would you need a spoiler? Why would you need a body kit? Hell, why do you even need a new car? If you're not doing the sort of driving that requires performance, why not just get something cheap and reliable?

Because in a year when I make my purchase my current car will be 9 years old ever own a car that old? They cost almost as much in repairs each month as I spend on a car payment...and you can't even drive it because it's in the damn shop. My last car was like that in the end, they finally told me the transmission would cost $1,500 so I traded it at a $400 value haha.

Anyway riceburner isn't the goal, I'd actually prefer to avoid it. If I could get a 170hp w/o a turbo for 18k'ish that looked nice I'd buy it. But I can't find anything that looks nice at that price...or that has that horsepower w/o a turbo...so if I hav to compromise...I'll go with the best value compromise.

And my decision will not be made for a while. Maybe I will decide to spend more on a RX-8, maybe I will buy used *cringe*, maybe something new will come out, or maybe I've missed a quality vehicle that looks perfect and has everything I want.

Right now though that Neon has top place on my chart....it's one of the cheapest cars, and it's one of the fastest, and the resale will be high, because I'll be buying it for substantially less then it actually costs due to my discount

But it's far from perfect, I'm still looking.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 21, 2003, 1:45 am

Get a Jetta. Those things will last until you die.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 21, 2003, 1:45 am

Pilsburry wrote:and the resale will be high

I really wouldn't count on that. There are so many factors that go into this. But you should consider, with the SRT-4...it just came out a few months ago...there are no reliability reviews on it. Have you checked the resale value of any dodge compacts at approximately the age you expect to sell it?

Kudo · Post by **Kudo** » September 21, 2003, 1:50 am

Realise when you drive off the lot you instantly lose like 2-5 grand in value~

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 21, 2003, 2:24 am

My discount will almost compensate for the 2-5 grand drop in price when I leave the lot, my brother bought a durango with it a few months back, he got 5k off.

As for the Jetta, it scares me because the base engine is 115hp, there is an option for a 90hp version

and then there is a 180hp version which is what I'd like, and finally a 200hp V6.

I'll keep the Jetta in mind, it's about the same as the bulk I'm looking at, not better, not worse...just kinda bland and a little pricey if you want a decent engine (the 115hp and 90hp versions are unacceptable, the 180hp is fine but that will run me 21k or so..and obviously then you have CD player etc to add on...because I doubt that's standard on a jetta.).

I'm starting to get tired of looking at cars in this price range. I hate all of them....I might need to take a break for a few weeks.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » September 21, 2003, 2:29 am

Buy KITT man...that car owns lol. Voice recognition and remote start up!

Karae · Post by **Karae** » September 21, 2003, 2:31 am

Pilsburry wrote:My discount will almost compensate for the 2-5 grand drop in price when I leave the lot, my brother bought a durango with it a few months back, he got 5k off.

As for the Jetta, it scares me because the base engine is 115hp, there is an option for a 90hp version and then there is a 180hp version which is what I'd like, and finally a 200hp V6.

I'll keep the Jetta in mind, it's about the same as the bulk I'm looking at, not better, not worse...just kinda bland and a little pricey if you want a decent engine (the 115hp and 90hp versions are unacceptable, the 180hp is fine but that will run me 21k or so..and obviously then you have CD player etc to add on...because I doubt that's standard on a jetta.).

I'm starting to get tired of looking at cars in this price range. I hate all of them....I might need to take a break for a few weeks.

I've got a friend who bought a Jetta and she says it's a piece of shit, and she thought her Honda CRX kicked ass so her standards are obviously low. Jettas are for secretaries anyway.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » September 21, 2003, 11:18 am

hyundai with a kit is still a hyundai.

Yes. It sure is.

Buy a copy of CR sometime and do your homework. As someone who used to sell cars part time (only briefly! the stereotypes are spot on in regards to those ones that have been in the business for a while), I had the opportunity to test drive just about every model on the lot (new Mazdas and misc used).

I can tell you that every customer of mine who was looking to trade in any Korean made car hated their pieces of shit. But none hated their pieces of shit more than Chrysler owners.

On the topic of used cars, they are a hell of a lot better bargain-wise than new. If you have patience, buy via private party instead of via dealership (I bought a used Honda for via PP for 20% less than the dealership was charging on the same vehicle). You can get a professional mechanic to appraise a car which you are serious about buying. They typically run about 40-50 bucks.

As was said before, look for the 1-2 year old cars. There are a lot of people who for some fucked up reason, love to switch cars every couple years or less. These cars typically have depreciated no less than 25% of how much they orginally paid on it.

BTW, CR's top (overall ratings) mid level sedans are almost always Toyota Camrys, Honda Accords, then followed by either VW or Nissan. Reliability: Honda, Toyota, either VW or Nissan.

Finally, here's the biggest money saving tip for you: If you go to a dealership and the salesman that approaches you asks something along the lines of "can I help you", that means he hasn't been in the business very long and therefore hasn't been corrupted yet.

Why?

Because car sales is a mind game that they teach their salespeople. I won't go into too many details since there's a lot to cover. The bottom line is this: this salesman has just given you power over him because he has just given you the "no thanks, I'm just looking" card and now you have leave to roam around the lot as you wish (until a more senior salesman now gets the nod to take over).

Chances are that you will get a better (not neccesarily good) deal with this guy than the others because he will be more likely to talk away his profit margin a lot faster than the others will before his manager/supervisor has even had a chance to speak with you (it's called the "turnover" when they do this).

IMPORTANT!

Pay close attention to how they talk, specifically if they use a lot of "let me"s or "allow me to"s. This is the most common method that is employed to nudge you along where they want you to. The slickest salesman will do this to you without you ever having a clue.

Lastly, bring a calculator if you negotiate monthly payments. The average total that is paid on a 5 year plan is 125% of the principal. You'd be surprised how many stupid people look strictly at their monthly payments and ignore the grand total they pay.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » September 21, 2003, 11:27 am

BTW, the average turnover rate for car salesman who are brand new to the business is less than 6 months (at least where I was working). I only lasted 1 month before I told my manager (that balding, Canadian, whatchoo talkin aboot (yes, aboot) fuckstain) to suck me.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 21, 2003, 1:30 pm

Want to hear the exact moment I decided to never ask my father for advice again was?

It was when I went to buy my Sunfire, I figured he would sit in the corner as an adult (I was 21, looked 18, I figured they would try and push me around). And if they started to push me around I would bounce it off my dad and figured he would back me up.

So I'm buying my Sunfire, I need it like yesterday because I'm moving in 2 days and my car can't make the trip.

The car salesman isn't budging AT ALL. I mean zero, zip, nadda. So I turn to my dad and say, "I don't think I can afford this, I was expecting to get more for my trade-in and talk the price down a little"

My dad's response? "I think you can"

Oh man was I disappointed. Thanks for fucking up any negotiation tool I might have had.

I paid sticker, I couldn't even get them to leave the CD player in (on the sticker it was priced with a cassette...but a CD was in the dash) I mean how much is that to them? $50?

Next time I go alone, or I take my mom.....my mom is a ruthless negotiator...

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » September 21, 2003, 1:37 pm

get a honda civic ... they last forever get ungodly gas milage and never break down ... and you can put about 200k on them and more

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » September 21, 2003, 1:42 pm

This is my car.

I got it for $10k with only 27000 miles on it. Just the basics, it's a '99.

For $18-20k you can get this:

If you must buy a new car, which I advise against, I would buy something that is going to be more dependable than a freckin hyundai. You can take a virtual tour of this car here.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 21, 2003, 3:22 pm

The solara is pretty nice....I don't like the back end..and it would be 20k+ to get it....because at 18k it has like no options and is only 157 hp, I was looking for 170+. It has a nice V6 though, like 220 hp...

The Matrix is like the Vibe basically...it's got a lot of the features I want, but when it comes down to it, I hate the mini-SUV look. It's practical though.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 21, 2003, 4:08 pm

I find it hillarious that you want 170+ HP to drive to the local store and back. And yes, even though you claimed it wasn't I'll gladly call it your penis extension. From all your BS talk about women I think you need it.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 21, 2003, 4:34 pm

Don't get a Jetta. I owned the top of the line Jetta. They have numerous quality issues.

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » September 22, 2003, 12:57 am

I bought a Mazda 626 off lease and have never regretted it. Next I'll be gettin a 6 I would say.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 22, 2003, 1:26 am

Kelshara wrote:I find it hillarious that you want 170+ HP to drive to the local store and back. And yes, even though you claimed it wasn't I'll gladly call it your penis extension. From all your BS talk about women I think you need it.

Also what ever you want to say about penis extensions is fine, it's a penis extension then....oh yeah and all women hate me....whatever makes you sleep better at night. I don't admire you either babe.

BTW 115 hp is about as low as it gets, 150hp is average for a low end car, 200-275 is an average sports car, muscle cars have like 300-500. 170 is far from a penis extension. It's just enough power where my engine doesn't disintegrate if I try to pass someone on the highway.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 22, 2003, 11:07 am

Unless you are buying a pickup, you WILL lose 50% of your vehicles value in less than three years. Ask yourself why you want to piss away 9-12k in resale value?

Note: This has absolutely nothing to do with how well you maintain your vehicle. Depreciation on a new car runs close to 30% the first year, 15-20% the second year then levels off to around 10% per year.

Seriously man, just because you got screwed on an older vehicle once doesn't mean older vehicles are a bad thing. I recently picked up a '93 pickup for hauling chores and my mechanic says the drivetrain is good for another 100,000 miles assuming it's treated well.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 22, 2003, 11:48 am

Fallanthas wrote:Unless you are buying a pickup, you WILL lose 50% of your vehicles value in less than three years. Ask yourself why you want to piss away 9-12k in resale value?

1. Most cars only last 10 years, and the first 3 are the best three...the quality of a car is not evenly spread. Repairs come later etc...

2. Used cars also depreciate the second you take them off the lot also, because the car dealership makes a profit off those cars.

3. You can't decide what options are on aused car, you take what they got.

4. A bad car is more likely to be sold than a good car.

P.S. Just because your drivetrain has 100k more miles left on it doesn't mean your shocks do, or your alternator, or your water pump, or your....

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 22, 2003, 11:52 am

Sorry Pils, you are 100% wrong.

In the last 15 years, I have owned three vehicles, only one of them newer than five years old. That was also the one I dumped the fastest.

Check consumer reports and recall lists and you can do just fine on an older vehicle. As for cars only lasting ten years.....

You've got to be kidding me. I've serviced BMW's that were on their fourth trip around the odometer and had reached voting age...twice.

If you want to toss your money away, that's your call. New cars are a hole in your driveway you throw money at. Most options are a waste of cash. Never ever buy the first iteration of a chassis or drivetrain. Lastly, the NADA is your friend.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 22, 2003, 12:22 pm

for $10 or $12, you can purchase a cost report that tells you exactly how much a vehicle costs the dealer. A fair deal is $400 over cost for most new cars. Paying sticker is nuts. Paying for a car based solely off a monthly payment is nuts. It's not even negotiating. I walked in to the honda dealership and told them what I'm putting down and what I'm going to pay. The guy made the easiest $400 of his life. I never trusted a single discount deal or cash back or any of that shit as it's completely useless and totally designed to pull you away from what cost actually is.

The only real issue w/ regards to that report is that most cars only come w/ standard transmission, you have to add the cost of automatic to get the actual number.

I still can't understand what your issue is w/ used cars though. The car I had before the '98 4-door civic ex I drive now was a '92 accord lx. I purchased it for 9.5k w/ 65k and sold it for 6.5k w/ 130k on it three years later. That's 3k for 65,000 miles driven is a very nice car which I could never have afforded new. But then, you place an inordinate amount of importance of horsepower, a trivial factor for everyday driving and I'll never understand that issue either.

Edit: What can I say about reliability that hasn't already been covered by Fall. You have/had a pontiac sunfire. Now I don't have my CR car book handy, but I'd say that's pretty damn low on the reliability ratings. You just have had bad expectations from all cars because you picked one that is decidedly low on the reliability scale. And it's not even just hondas or toyotas either. Ford had a damn good track record from '90 to about '96 on most of their models. My wife finally junked her '90 probe with 202k in '01. The thing would have probably lasted even longer if it wasn't rearended by someone 2 times in the last 4 years she owned it

Post by **Sylvus** » September 22, 2003, 12:32 pm

Chidoro wrote:But then, you place an inordinate amount of importance of horsepower, a trivial factor for everyday driving and I'll never understand that issue either.

Used cars are neither 2 fast, nor 2 furious enough for his tastes. He's trying to pull down the kind of pussy that Paul Walker gets.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 22, 2003, 12:50 pm

Aranuil wrote:Don't get a Jetta. I owned the top of the line Jetta. They have numerous quality issues.

Non-Beetle VW's in general have issues. I've had 3 friends that owned VWs (1 GTI, 1 Passat, 1 Jetta) and in each case they spend more time in the shop EVERY YEAR than my Honda has in its entire life (5 years and counting

)

However, my sister's coworker has a New Beetle, and it's been a little champion for 2 years now.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 22, 2003, 1:03 pm

Chidoro: I still drive a '90 Ford Probe. It does have minor shit go wrong (automatic seatbelts jam, air conditioner is broken), but as far as serious repairs, it's been as reliable a car as I could ever want.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 22, 2003, 2:20 pm

Chidoro wrote:for $10 or $12, you can purchase a cost report that tells you exactly how much a vehicle costs the dealer. A fair deal is $400 over cost for most new cars. Paying sticker is nuts.

Edit: What can I say about reliability that hasn't already been covered by Fall. You have/had a pontiac sunfire. Now I don't have my CR car book handy, but I'd say that's pretty damn low on the reliability ratings.

I paid stcker when I was 21. I was in a real bind I needed a car pretty much the next day. As for discounts next time around...
I get a Chrysler Green sheet....it's a decent dicount for family members of higher level chrysler employees (or ex-employees).
I know someone who has a GM dealership.
I also know someone who said they can get me some sort of ford discount.

Only problem is none of them make an entry level car I'm interested in except Chrysler (Dodge Neon SRT4). All the low end cars I'm interested in are imports.

I'd really like the Honda name, I seriously have never heard a bad thing about Honda. I just don't like thier styling.

And I am EXTREMELY happy with the reliability of my Sunfire. I could not be happier with it...seriously. It's been in the shop for repairs TWICE in 7.5 years. How many car owners can say that? (I'm not counting running over a nail and getting a flat, or oil changes etc..) Once because I melted something from driving too fast, and once because I burnt something from driving too fast hehe. I did general maintenance, a new battery, and a new turn signal bulb that weren't shop visits.

My bad experience was with a Grand Am.

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » September 22, 2003, 2:35 pm

Pilsburry wrote:Because in a year when I make my purchase my current car will be 9 years old ever own a car that old? They cost almost as much in repairs each month as I spend on a car payment...and you can't even drive it because it's in the damn shop.

Every car I have ever driven has lasted over 10 years (excluding my current vehicle which is a '95), having been paid off long before I've needed expensive repair. Pretty sure preventative maintainence helps a lot there.

You either drive the shit out of your car (in a bad way) or you've been buying the wrong kind of car if they are turning to shit within 9 years.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 22, 2003, 2:41 pm

Sirensa something is wrong here, your profile says age 16.

If every car you have owned lasted over 10 years except the one you drive now...

How long could you have possibly owned each one of those cars? And why did you sell them off so quickly if they were so reliable?

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 22, 2003, 2:50 pm

So you're just worried about posible future expenses because it's been running so well all of this time? Don't buy anything then. Seriously. If you are having a good track record with your car, just maintain it. Sure you may have to put in some money to replace some semi-expensive items in the next 20k miles or so, it's still nowhere near the cost of monthly payments. As an example, I finished paying off my car last November. Since then I've had to put in ~$600 for my exhaust system, about $450 for it's 90k maintenance, a system flush because of a little knocking for ~$140 and 3 oil changes at ~$22 each. The two larger ticket expenses won't need to be done for another 90k miles. Even with all of those items, it's still far less money than the $340 per month payment I was making.

I loved it when I finally got my title from honda finance. The only thing separating me from another car purchase is about 70-120k more miles. I won't be happy until I get 180k on this car. As for road problems, AAA works wonders.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 22, 2003, 3:03 pm

I only owned Hondas and BMWs until 2000 when I bought a GMC Serria Z71 extended cab. After almost 50K it's been as reliable as my Hondas were and MUCH more reliable than the BMW... although no AS fun to drive (difference between driving fast and driving OVER heh).

So when we got my wife a new car in March we were planning on a Pilot but test drove an Envoy and liked it much better. The power is AMAZING. It's got a straight 6 that produces 275 hp which is a lot for a mid size SUV. You've only talked about cars but you might want to check out the new Mid-Size Trucks from GMC and Chevy. They are going to have a stright-5 version of the Envoy engine, I'm sure it will rock.

Plus if you have a truck you will look more like a real man that some wuss, low riding dipshit in a tricked out rice burner... IMHO at least

Marb

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 22, 2003, 3:10 pm

my personal opinion is that your goals for the car are incompatible with making a sound financial decision.

in other words, your priorities are certain performance features (that will be utilized less than 1% of the operating time of the vehichle if at all) instead of things like reliability, value, etc.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » September 22, 2003, 3:18 pm

Chidoro wrote:As an example, I finished paying off my car last November. Since then I've had to put in ~$600 for my exhaust system, about $450 for it's 90k maintenance, a system flush because of a little knocking for ~$140 and 3 oil changes at ~$22 each. The two larger ticket expenses won't need to be done for another 90k miles. Even with all of those items, it's still far less money than the $340 per month payment I was making.

that's exactly what i say. my car has been paid off for over 2 years and other than oil changes i've probably put ~$400 into the thing since i made that final payment. and that's including a brake job (my first at over 70k miles, much less_than_three for manual transmissions). my next visit will be for an oil change/tune up and i need a $160 repair. i would SO rather pay that than a regular car payment.

i think you just got a lemon, pils. :/ if your current car is still running well, why not keep it?

and sirensa isn't 16, keke. nor am i 99. nor is truant 100, etc.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 22, 2003, 3:27 pm

Wow, you know if Pils had asked for a bunch of peronal opinions about his life this thread would have made sense, he asked specific car questions and got a ton of BS.

Pils go check out http://www.edmunds.com they have the best reference data available online in one place for free.

On the peronsal opinion side it is amazing how many of you are willing to spend $15000 to drive exactly the same thing that everyone else ius driving. I would have thought the level of individuality on this board was higher.

Or buy the SpeedRacer car http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/ ... oyota-css/

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » September 22, 2003, 3:30 pm

Kelshara wrote:I find it hillarious that you want 170+ HP to drive to the local store and back.

He'll get groceries faster

Joking aside, do not get a car with a turbo if you do a lot of short trip driving. They need to be warmed up, and allowed to cool at the begining and end of each "drive" unless you like to replace the bearings or whole unit every couple years.

Guy down the street from me bought his kid a Viper to drive to school. I haven't seen the PoS lately, I'd imgine he wrecked it.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 22, 2003, 3:33 pm

Wow, you know if Pils had asked for a bunch of peronal opinions about his life this thread would have made sense, he asked specific car questions and got a ton of BS.

He asked for advice on making a sound decision purchasing a car for it's looks and horsepower to tool at 45 MPH to the gym and back.

Does the word oxymoron mean anything to you?

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 22, 2003, 3:33 pm

Best thing to do perhaps is get a car that has ~150hp and replace air filter, etc. to get the extra hp.

Shanter · Post by **Shanter** » September 22, 2003, 3:38 pm

Man I shoulda clicked this thread earlier Pils, I'm driving a 2003 Tiburon GT right now and it's not bad. Besides a minor window problem, which they fixed in about an hour, I've had no problems with it. It also comes with the 10-year (or something I can't remember right now) warranty, partly because of the shitty reputation they had with their cars, but they have significantly improved needless to say.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 22, 2003, 3:54 pm

Fallanthas wrote:
Wow, you know if Pils had asked for a bunch of peronal opinions about his life this thread would have made sense, he asked specific car questions and got a ton of BS.
He asked for advice on making a sound decision purchasing a car for it's looks and horsepower to tool at 45 MPH to the gym and back.

Does the word oxymoron mean anything to you?

Yes and obviously I understand it, since you do not.

He asked for assistance based on criteria, rather unique criteria, but still, then a whole load of horseshit is tossed on his criteria. Fucking children, it is his money to spend well or foolishly, if you have no vehicular assistance other than droll Buy American versus Buy Foreign then let people with a clue and current knowledge post.

I admit he is a dumbfuck for asking this question publically here, since only about half the bloody board works for a living to begin with, and of that half most are going to talk shit without a purpose since they dislike the length/content of his posts. I realize we started out as flamevault, but christ people, we CAN have threads of content once in a great while.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 22, 2003, 4:04 pm

Kylere, he was asking for sound advice on making a purchase. This would include asking what he would be using it for. This helps us make better suggestions based on what he does. Everyone threw in their suggestions and he has went with them. Look at his posts, the first one he wanted a Tiburon, now he doesn't know and has all but ruled out the Tiburon. This has actually been one of the tamer posts in vv history. As far as I can read there really hasn't been any flames to Pilsburry at all in this thread.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 22, 2003, 4:28 pm

/sigh

He asked for help making a decision, then contradicted damn near every criteria he gave.

Buying a new car is not a sound financial decision.

Buying a car with a fucking turbocharger to drive less than 10 miles at a stretch doing 45MPH is utterly stupid.

When you come up with criteria that don't make any sorty of conceptual sense, you get asked questions.

Deal.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » September 22, 2003, 4:34 pm

Because in a year when I make my purchase my current car will be 9 years old ever own a car that old?

I own a 91 Toyota Corrola. I paid $3600 with tax in 1998. If I were to sell it today, I could still get at least $2000, probably more.

If you buy a good car to begin with, and keep up on it (oil changes, rust, etc...), it will last you a very long time.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » September 22, 2003, 4:40 pm

Personally I have found it nice to have other people's input and experiences with different cars, trucks etc... otherwise I would have NEVER EVER EVER purchased a truck. To me a big truck just said one thing... REDNECK! but since having one I have found more and more uses for it and they are now pretty comfortable. Sure I threw in some jabs but the post was ment to show that you can get decent driving expereinces and dependability with American stuff.

Pils I have a friend with a SantaFe and he and his wife love it. In about a year I don't think they have had any problems whatsoever out of it. Sure there was a time when all of their cars had trouble but they have come a long way or they couldn't offer that warranty because it would bankrupt them... it's just the name hasn't caught up yet.

I'm not saying other cars are great but when you are on a budget my opinion is always to get the most for your money. Buying a suped up 4 banger dosen't work into that equation IMHO.

If you want something different check these out, the xB is really different looking and would have TONS of room, it's also really cheap and is actually a Toyota so it will have excellent reliability.

http://www.scion.com/

Marb

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » September 22, 2003, 4:51 pm

Didn't know Turbo chargers need time to warm up....I have more thinking to do.

As for keeping my current car, there are parts on the car I am unsatisfied with...I bought my car 1 week after I graduated college at age 21. I was on a limited budget and pressured for time.

Now I got over the cassette deck by adding a 10 disk MP3 player in the glove box that plays through my antenna wire hehe, I'm satisfied with that...I bought it with the intent of possibly moving it to the new car, and besides...it was free.

But I still want automatic windows and locks, I have quite a few dings and scratches..my paint job looks nice from a distance but up close you can tell it wasn't garaged for the first few years....it's looks like it has permanent water marks.

I'd like tinted windows. I'd like a little more horsepower, but not much more...

One of the plastic things broke off the seatbelt clip in the back seat. The plastic thing on the side of the driver seat is loose because I cracked one of the connecting parts.

None of that stuff is major....but....it's stuff that bothers me to look at. And fixing it all up on a car this old is pointless.

Not to mention I have quite a few people who keep asking me "when are you going to get a new car?"...it's a sign maybe I need to move on soon.

Oh yeah and there have been 2 flames. Kelshara and Sylvus. Maybe 3 I think. Most saying it's a penis extension, or I need a nice car to get laid etc...nothing major...but not really appropriate either.

I repeat a car with 170hp under 20k is not a penis extension. It won't impress anyone.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 22, 2003, 4:53 pm

Go the disposable car route. Buy four $5K used civics. If one breaks down, junk it and hop in the next one. You've got 4 cars that can break down before you're stuck.

On top of that, you can tell women you meet in bars that you own 4 cars. They'd be impressed and you'd have another story to tell us here.