what happens when democracy grows apathetic

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 5, 2003, 7:57 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3082708.stm

BNP wins another seat

The far-right British National Party have picked up another council seat after a by-election in Essex.
The party now has 18 local councillors, after the election of building maintenance manager Nicholas Geri, 47, himself the grandson of an Italian immigrant.

Mr Geri said he was "pleasantly surprised" at winning a seat in the Grays Riverside ward.

His party has tried to moderate its policies and rhetoric in an effort to shake off its racist image and become more electable.

The by-election was triggered by the death of a Labour incumbent.

Mr Geri's victory - with a 22% turnout - left Labour with an overall majority of 21 on the council.

He said: "We bring common sense. Things have gone the wrong way and the way that people don't want them to go, that is why they voted for us.

"Asylum problems, NHS problems, crime and the causes of crime."

Labour and the Liberal Democrats said the victory of a far-right candidate would be a rallying call for those opposed to racism.

Alan Olive, regional director of the Eastern Region Labour Party, said; "We will now redouble our efforts in this community and work on behalf of local people to prove the value of a hard-working Labour team and we will work hard to expose the BNP for what they really are."

He added: "Nasty, extremist and racist, the BNP got in narrowly on the back of empty promises, low turnout and bogus respectability.

"The truth is they have absolutely nothing to offer and will let local people down."

Earnshaw Palmer, the only Liberal Democrat councillor in Thurrock and one of three black councillors on the local authority, added: "This is a sad day for democracy and a sad day for the people of Thurrock.

"It is a wake-up call to the voters and the major political parties."

But he added: "It is not a national mood swing it is an aberration. It is what happens when the silent majority stay at home.

"There is no racial problem in this area and the BNP have nothing to offer the people of Thurrock."

Eric Pickles MP, Tory local government spokesman, said: "As a former councillor and council leader myself I am saddened and angry that they have won a seat in Essex.

"The BNP contribute nothing to society nor do they attempt to bring answers to the issues facing our local communities.

"The reality is, they are the problem and not the solution."

In the May local elections the BNP won 11 new council seats in England, with its biggest success five more seats in Burnley, Lancashire.

For those that don't know the british national party (BNP) is the nazi party. They have 18 seats in council now because they can actually rally people to go to the polls and vote for them. 18 isnt anywhere near an omg nazis are running the UK kind of number, but its funny to see voters so apathetic that fucking nazis can win elections because the nazis are one of the few groups going out to vote.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 5, 2003, 8:20 am

I was a bit confused until you said who they were. Britain is one of the most respected countries when it comes to race relations (in the motherland, not talking their colonization record), which is why it's so confusing that a party like that would be able to thrive, let alone get votes there. Britain of all places, amazing.

-edit 22% turnout wow, things are not what they seem in Britain.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » September 5, 2003, 10:04 am

sadly 22% turnout would be better than what my town got out in the last election. I think we had something like 17% turnout.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 5, 2003, 10:07 am

Yea you had 17% split between I dont know how many voting factions. these cats had a 22% turnout for just about a single party (if I am reading the article right), that's simply amazing.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 5, 2003, 10:24 am

This was a minor by-election caused by the death of a local politician so the low turnout isn't surprising.

Bradford has a problem with racial tensions. Some riots a year or two back, gangs out of control. It's ALWAYS had a strong moslem and asian community but so have several cities in the area. This is where the BNP has been making small gains recently. That they've won a seat in Essex isn't surprising either as that area of Essex is right-wing-tabloid-reading, white-van-driving, tory-voting heartland.

The BNP is correct in saying we have problems with the NHS, unemployment, Asylum seekers and the rest. To blame it all on non-whites and have paki-bashing as your means of tackling these problems is dead wrong. But there is a lot of resentment building over these issues and it's the kind of thing scum like the BNP thrive on. Our most widely-read newspaper (The Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch, utterly lowbrow, offensive rag that blames everything on liberals/foreigners, you know the type) blames "Asylum Seekers" for everything wrong with this country so it's not surprising hate is starting to take root. Especially in the less well-educated sections of society (that are ever growing thanks to 20 years of Conservative pillage of the UKs education system).

It's a sad state of affairs but it won't last. These idiots will get shown up for the vermin they are and will fade away to the fringes again. The only problem that can really be layed at the feet of "foreigners", Asylum, is being dealt with pretty well by the govt now (late, but hey) so they'll soon have no legs to stand on. But in the end us Brits' traditional distaste for nationalism or fascism won't stand for their nonsense.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 5, 2003, 10:45 am

Is that a low turnout for a Brit election, Tanc?

22% is considered a moderate turnout here in the states.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 5, 2003, 12:07 pm

For a minor 1-seat by-election it's probably about average. Local elections probably get 30-40% turnout if it's a quiet year.

These are the figures for the 1997 election that put Blair in power:
http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge97/turnout.htm
(51-86% depending on region basically).

The 2002 election had a notably low turnout: 59%

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 5, 2003, 12:41 pm

This is something I really don't get in the US.. I think the lowest nation-wide voter turnout we've had in Norway was 78%, and that was considered a disaster election. It is usually up close to 90%.

Why wont people bother to vote? It has a huge impact on their lives, an honestly.. if you don't bother voting you really have no ground to bitch and whine either.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 5, 2003, 12:54 pm

Because most Americans have goldfish memories and below average educations, and only care about catchy sound bites, fast food, what they can get for free, and *makin' that paypa, ya dig?*. We are losing pride, and I mean real pride in a country and its image to the world.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 5, 2003, 12:56 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:Because most Americans have goldfish memories and below average educations, and only care about catchy sound bites, fast food, what they can get for free, and *makin' that paypa, ya dig?*. We are losing pride, and I mean real pride in a country and its image to the world.

The wetbacks and the niggers are ruining this country.

ok, seriously..

As long as americans in general get gas, cars, homes, toys in general at a good price and always availible, who cares?

Post by **Sylvus** » September 5, 2003, 1:00 pm

I don't vote because I haven't seen a candidate yet that I actually want to become president. I would have probably voted for McCain if he had gotten the Republican nod in the last election, but that didn't happen. I also might have voted for Perot, crackpot that he is, in '92 if I had been old enough to vote then.

Apathetic, maybe, I just wish we could get a viable independent candidate in a presidential election. I hate all the partisan bullshit.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 5, 2003, 1:07 pm

Skogens post is spot on.

As logn as most get a paycheck and dont get arrested, they really don't care.

Sad.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 5, 2003, 1:08 pm

In Presidential elections, people don't vote because in many, many cases their vote means jack and shit. Some states are going to have their electoral votes go a certain way no matter how many people show up to vote. It is like that in Ohio. If we had 100% turn out, Bush was still getting the votes from Ohio. Why would so many waste time out of a busy day to stand in line to vote for something that means nothing? If they got rid of the electoral college, you might see the poll counts go up.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 5, 2003, 1:27 pm

Good point Kilmoll. My gf doesn't bother to vote in Ohio because her vote would mean jack and shit here. I agree, the system really needs some work..

However, isn't the turnout for local elections fairly low as well?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 5, 2003, 1:35 pm

Local turnout in Nashville was 10% in 99, cant find the numbers for this year.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » September 5, 2003, 1:47 pm

Mu Supreme Court votes for me!

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 5, 2003, 1:48 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:In Presidential elections, people don't vote because in many, many cases their vote means jack and shit. Some states are going to have their electoral votes go a certain way no matter how many people show up to vote. It is like that in Ohio. If we had 100% turn out, Bush was still getting the votes from Ohio. Why would so many waste time out of a busy day to stand in line to vote for something that means nothing? If they got rid of the electoral college, you might see the poll counts go up.

That's like here in California. GOP is fighting a pitched battle to get an electorial vote out of this state!

I blame Nader for Bush being in the white house. Took votes from Gore (ok, he was no winner either) just to make his point that his green party could get, what was it? 5%? 10& of the vote?
Fuck that guy. He also delt the death blow to the Corvair!

What an asshole.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » September 5, 2003, 3:24 pm

Just vote god damnit!! There are plenty of good candidates and they don't have to be democrat or republican. Put some effort into learning about upcoming elections and just vote, it is not hard, they can send the damn things directly to your house so you can even be a lazy bastard and vote. It is worth it, it is thinking that voting doesnt count that MAKES it not count, because millions of people think the same way and it adds up...

Salis · Post by **Salis** » September 8, 2003, 5:10 am

Not to be confused with the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party), who just blame everything on the English bastards, and win lots of elections ^^

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 8, 2003, 11:04 am

Skogen wrote: I blame Nader for Bush being in the white house. Took votes from Gore (ok, he was no winner either) just to make his point that his green party could get, what was it? 5%? 10& of the vote?
Fuck that guy. He also delt the death blow to the Corvair!

What an asshole.

You should be blaming the people who got Gore the party nomination. I didn't vote for Gore because I can't stand the prick. I can't stand to listen to him speak. In addition, the thought of Tipper being the first lady is a nightmare to me. Don't be pissed at Nader, be pissed that Gore sucked as the democrat candidate.

Last night I was watching the first democratic candidate debate replayed from Thursday. There ARE good candidates out there. Some of them make a lot of sense. Some make a lot of sense and are still good orators so they look and act like they can lead, as well as making sense while doing it. I just wish they would change the primary system. It really sucks having the same states polled in the same order every fucking election. It should be randomized every election but it's still always new hampshire, iowa, blah blah blah. By the time it makes it's way to my state, the whole damn thing has been decided. As a result, I have NO say in which candidate I'd really like to support. It's shitty being pigeonholed into the candidate some fucker in Iowa wants. As if that person's life resembles my own in ANY way shape or form.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 8, 2003, 11:19 am

Kilmoll wrote:If we had 100% turn out, Bush was still getting the votes from Ohio.

I'm in Ohio too, Kilmoll and I'm confused by your comment. Are you saying:

A. Democrats are in the minority in Ohio and therefore should not waste time voting

B. The vote/electorial college is somehow rigged

C. Something altogether different

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 8, 2003, 11:34 am

he is saying:

D. your vote in Ohio will not count because the local politica will make it so the state almost always go Republican (that may or not be true, but we'll go on this for now).

So no matter which way you vote (R or D), with respect to the presidency, it doesnt matter.

and that is a major problem with the electoral college in my opinion. that and low population states have more political influence per capita than they should.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 8, 2003, 11:44 am

That's what "B" was. You believe he is saying the whole system is rigged, so why should he vote.

I tend to agree with you on the Electorial College BTW, if you think votes are worthless because they are "lost" at the state level, then a true popular vote is the way to go. Only problem popular votes it is low voter turnout and special interests with a high voter turnout (i.e. the point of this thread).

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 8, 2003, 11:56 am

If you do not vote, then you need to STFU on political issues. I get so sick and tired of paying higher taxes to fund some BS project because a new tax or assay or millage pops up and the 49 people that want it go vote for it, and the 11 informed people vote against it. And the ignorant "my vote won't change anything" 132888398923 million stay at home.

Vote or STFU