The Right to Marry!

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » August 29, 2003, 12:53 am

So they go to Denmark and marry eachother then come back?

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » August 29, 2003, 1:32 am

Deneve wrote:
Xyun wrote:
am i ignorant because my personal opinions differ from yours?
yes
nope, it is nothing more than an opinion, for practical purposes gay guys are great, cause for every gay couple there are 2 more girls w/o guys...but i do not believe that gays should be "married" the concept of getting married is religious to begin with, saying that gays have the right to be "married" (as in the religious church version) is like saying arabs have the right to kill us as part of their practices

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: 'mar-ij also 'mer-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Old French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a : the state of being married b : the mutual relation of husband and wife : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry -- J. T. Shawcross>
- mar·riage·abil·i·ty /"mar-i-j&-'bi-l&-tE also "mer-/ noun
- mar·riage·able /'mar-i-j&-b&l also 'mer-/ adjective

there is nothing religious about marriage or being married, maybe religion could find a new term on couples joining together for life with the purpose to make babies, so help them god, amen?

leave marriage out of church and allow 2 guys or girls to go to County Clerk to obtain a marriage licence

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » August 29, 2003, 1:39 am

Marriage might of started as religious concept, but that was 2000 years ago. Things change.

It's more of a symbolic thing to show to others that you love that person. People get married for tax breaks too I guess.

However, I do not think they should be married by the church, although, I do think that God did not intend to discriminate people like that. Thats what we get when people follow a 2k year old book.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » August 29, 2003, 3:49 am

I refuse to believe that religion INVENTED marriage.

FFS, common sense. There have been people longer than religion. And there are people that practiced a ceremony that had nothing to do with your god.

god is not necessary for two people to be married...it's just been grandfathered into our customs.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 29, 2003, 10:01 am

nope, it is nothing more than an opinion, for practical purposes gay guys are great, cause for every gay couple there are 2 more girls w/o guys...but i do not believe that gays should be "married" the concept of getting married is religious to begin with, saying that gays have the right to be "married" (as in the religious church version) is like saying arabs have the right to kill us as part of their practices

The reason you are ignorant is because your religion disables your common sense. No amount of flaming, reasoning, or pleading will help you. You are hopeless. Nonetheless, I will still tell you what is wrong with your views and why they make you ignorant.

First of all, it is none of your business what other people do in their personal life. It really really really isn't your business, and if you think it's god's business, you should let god handle it. You can have your opinion, but to force your opinion, which is obviously very religious, into the law books goes against the very core of the principles this nation was founded upon. Under the law, everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why do you want to deny this to anyone for any reason?

Second, marriage is NOT a religious institution, it is a lawful one. Humans were getting married long before the birth of christ, and his birth and death have absolutely nothing to do with humans getting married. Nor does any other religion, anywhere in the world. By your logic (or lack thereof) athiests and agnostics should not be allowed to get married.

Am I wrong here?

I'm an athiest, and since marriage is a religious institution, according to you, I do not have the right to get married?

So, you have proven that you do not understand marriage, the law, logic, gay people, separation of church and state, religion and its place in society, the basic concepts of freedom and equality, the constitution of the united states of america, and most of all yourself.

Does your opinion make you an ignorant person? Let me consult my magic 8-ball.

My opinion is that you should take your bible, your holier-than-thou attitude, your church, and your god and shove them all up your ass you ignorant fucking waste of bone marrow.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » August 29, 2003, 10:11 am

Xyun you were doing good till your last comment. When you make intolerant statements like that you are no better than the people you are trying to berate for having backwooded views about gay bashing and religion in government. You do nothing but come full circle in your own disgust.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 29, 2003, 10:35 am

That's why I put my opinion before that statement. The reason I hold this opinion is that views like this are just very very mild examples of the pain and suffering mass religion has caused and continues to cause in humanity. I know that religion has done some good, and I know that it has its place in society, but the harm it has done far outweighs the good. And when I am confronted with blockheads like this, where their mere opinion attempts to infringe upon my rights as a human being, I have nothing but disgust and disrespect. This forum provides me the means to illustrate this disgust and I use it thusly.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » August 29, 2003, 10:47 am

Anyway, I definitely see the point you made and agree with your logic up to the generalized religion flame (and I even understand that). Your religious opinion aside, your points really can't be rebutted, but there lies my opinion.

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » August 29, 2003, 10:47 am

IMHO there shouldnt be an argument at all. I seem to remeber a little phrase used quite often, " Seperation of Church of and State" . If that is truely the case there should be NO argument at all , but we all know the fucking government is full of religious freaks and zealots , and even more on the Lobbyist side of things.
I could care less if two people of the same sex get a legal contract together. My work will accept same sex partners for insurance and such , but a big FU if you are a "standard male/female couple without marraige.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » August 29, 2003, 10:52 am

It's simple really, I am 100% free to practice Christianity in America which is awesome, and the government keeps religion out of its judicial processes. My rights as a Christian are not infringed upon and I am happy. That's the way it is, its just taking some people time to understand the laws of the land I guess.

Alenna · Post by **Alenna** » August 29, 2003, 10:53 am

Howdy VV,

Ahh...it's sad to see how the root of all evil has us in turmoil again! Money is real reason that the "gay and lesbian community" is so adamant about the marriage issue. There are many legal facets that have considerations for "spouse" (taxes, insurance, etc) and gays want to be included in that. Can't blame for that I guess.

On a side note...yall say marriage existed before the Church....what about monogamous marriage? Maybe it's the big bad Church talking, (inc doctrine! hide your eyes!) but I was taught that our marriages are supposed to mimic the "marriage" of JC and the churchpeople. *shrug* (END OF DOCTRINE)

*waves to those I know*

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 29, 2003, 11:25 am

Hiya.

Monogamous marriages existed in many societies before the birth of christianity. Just a few examples are the Japanese, Egyptians, Mayans, Persians, and Chinese.

Lexien · Post by **Lexien** » August 29, 2003, 11:28 am

Alenna wrote:Howdy VV,

Ahh...it's sad to see how the root of all evil has us in turmoil again! Money is real reason that the "gay and lesbian community" is so adamant about the marriage issue. There are many legal facets that have considerations for "spouse" (taxes, insurance, etc) and gays want to be included in that. Can't blame for that I guess.

On a side note...yall say marriage existed before the Church....what about monogamous marriage? Maybe it's the big bad Church talking, (inc doctrine! hide your eyes!) but I was taught that our marriages are supposed to mimic the "marriage" of JC and the churchpeople. *shrug* (END OF DOCTRINE)

*waves to those I know*

Jackass!

Alenna · Post by **Alenna** » August 29, 2003, 11:56 am

Seems to me that a lot of those cultures had exceptions for the ruling class...but then again, the real Golden rule is in effect ("He who has the gold, makes the rules").

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 29, 2003, 11:58 am

Xzion wrote:
Kylere wrote:
Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

Sad.
Nope in a perfect world everyone would be American Indian and all the guys except me would be gay but still into playing and watching football, and all the women would be Bi with hetero leanings.
why american indian?

Because we are superior!!!!

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » August 29, 2003, 12:21 pm

" the concept of getting married is religious to begin with"

No it is not.
The union, concept, habits, history, legalities and relationship do not have their foundations in religion as many have repeatedly pointed out. Granted, they have been influenced as religions like Catholicism historically threw their weight around. A religion that is younger then "marriage" itself may be telling you different, but do your homework or use common sense to find out the truth. Religion has pulled aspects of life such as teaching children in school, eating your supper, death/grieving, birth, marriage and more into it as the institution evolved.

The cult acceptance of "My priest and/or religion says it is true, so it is." boggles me. I once had a conversation with my catholic grandmother about the "breaking news" that an unholy amount of young boys were sexually assaulted by priests of the Catholic Church. Worse, the church had covered it up for years. She replied "I wonder what those nasty boys did to those poor priests to make them have to do that."

She was 90, medically demented and thought her stuff polar bear was her dead dog "Bridgette". At least she had an excuse.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » August 29, 2003, 12:26 pm

Phugg_Innay wrote: I could care less if two people of the same sex get a legal contract together. My work will accept same sex partners for insurance and such , but a big FU if you are a "standard male/female couple without marraige.

You're right. The system is far easier to abuse w/out giving gays an opportunity to marry.

My wife's office allows the same domestic partner benefits. I read it over a while back, it it sounds terribly abusable. They really need to have it though so long as marriage between same sexes is outlawed.

Alenna · Post by **Alenna** » August 29, 2003, 12:47 pm

Lynxe, the "sheep" mentality of religion baffles me too...the Word is the only source we are really supposed to use (there are others that will disagree, but that's a different debate than this), and we are supposed to question sources that AREN'T the Word....ie. priests, etc.

I forget who said it...but the quote, and it will be butchered, is "They took a good think like Faith, and spoiled it by creating Religion"

To tie back into the "concept that marriage is not religious". I disagree on the basis that it becomes much deeper than "omg, this person is really cool and we want to share bank accounts"

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » August 29, 2003, 12:50 pm

it's also deeper than

it becomes much deeper than "omg, this person is really cool and we want to share bank accounts"

it's like "omg this person is so cool I wanna spend the rest of my life with him, have his children and have all the world know he's mine and I'm his"

ok take out the children part out in case of gays.

I suck at spelling

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 29, 2003, 1:51 pm

religion has people trained like animals in cages ....

Xyun ... you make a good point if only people would quit mindlessly following things and think before they follow the cult but i guess there not socially developed enough yet

Deward · Post by **Deward** » August 29, 2003, 2:37 pm

My turn to kick the dead horse.

Christianity did not create the institution of marriage. The ancient Spartans were married but also encouraged to have gay lovers. The men were not allowed to see their wives in daylight for the first ten years of marriage. Their idea was that if you REALLY loved your buddy then you would be better fighting men. In their day, the spartans were completely unbeatable and assisted in defeating an army (Persians) that outnumbered them at least a 100 to 1. I will say that marriage was commonly some kind of religious or spiritual union that had different customs based on different cultures. Notice I said religious or spiritual, that does not mean Christian (or any other religion). My wife and I had a very spiritually moving wedding ceremony without any religion. The groomsmen wore zoot suits and the wedding was kind of a big celebration and a chance for our friends to share in our happiness. Why can't gay people have that and be legally recognized?

I have no problems with gay marriage. In fact it is no one's fucking business what people want to do in their personal lives. There are benefits to being married. If only one partner works then it insures taht the other partner will have get medical care or pension benefits if he/she dies. There are detriments too, mainly all the extra fucking taxes!

One last note, only a few states have common law marriage laws so an actual marriage certificate is needed to get any sorts of benefits.

And the dumbass talking about human and animal marriages. Humans (in most cases) are cognizant, animals are not. That comparison is just stupid.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » August 29, 2003, 3:24 pm

How many times do I have to say Relgion did not invent marriage before people quit coming up with what they think is a new argument that says "GOD MADE RELIGION F U GAYS@!!1!!"

FUCKING READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST YOU STUPID FUCKS

As to the statement that people are only wanting to get married because of greed. Let me throw this at you...Try to think of why the church became involved in marriage ceremonies to begin with.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » August 29, 2003, 3:38 pm

Truant wrote:Let me throw this at you...Try to think of why the church became involved in marriage ceremonies to begin with.

To spurn the priests?

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 29, 2003, 3:53 pm

Truant wrote:FUCKING READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST YOU STUPID FUCKS

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people to read it, even if they read it they'll just ignore it. Those who can only come up with religions reasons to oppose gay marriage will keep harping on them forever, regardless of the fact that religious tenets have no bearing on federal law in the US, or the fact that marriage is a legal status as well as a religious one.

Whole reason I didn't really get involved in the debate on this thread. These debates always go nowhere.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » August 29, 2003, 4:13 pm

Etasi wrote:These debates always go nowhere.

Bingo!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 29, 2003, 4:19 pm

Deward wrote:And the dumbass talking about human and animal marriages. Humans (in most cases) are cognizant, animals are not. That comparison is just stupid.

You must not read this board very often. Browse the retard forum for proof that animals are more cognizant than a good portion of humans.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » August 29, 2003, 4:24 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Deward wrote:And the dumbass talking about human and animal marriages. Humans (in most cases) are cognizant, animals are not. That comparison is just stupid.
You must not read this board very often. Browse the retard forum for proof that animals are more cognizant than a good portion of humans.

Monkies eat their own shit

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 29, 2003, 4:44 pm

Do you need me to repost anything by pottamina to prove my point?

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » August 29, 2003, 6:51 pm

Ashur [FoH] wrote:
Etasi wrote:These debates always go nowhere.
Bingo!

iam with ash now, i don't see anyone getting anywhere with this, but chance are it will still be here 3 pages or so from now =/

and xyun, i am not suggesting the enforcement of my opinions, they are nothing more than mere opinions...

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 30, 2003, 4:46 am

Your opinion matters more than you think.

VeeshanVault

The Right to Marry!

Do you believe gay couples should have the right to marry?