LDoN Raiding

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 26, 2003, 9:50 pm

Then why the comments from Absor about 72+ person guilds? There aren't a whole hell of a lot of lower tier guilds with that many members. The impression I've gotten from SoE's discussions of LDoN is that it's supposed to be an expansion for everyone. Thus, the discussion of whether or not it's stupid to expect absolutely everyone to raid in smaller groups.

eOmniz · Post by **eOmniz** » August 26, 2003, 9:53 pm

Absor posted about 72+ man guilds because people asked about what they're supposed to do. I'm sure his idea would be that everyone can "enjoy" the content but i doubt everyone would benefit from it.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 26, 2003, 9:55 pm

abs0r is a spin man. it's his job to make everyone want to buy it. I mean come on the man has not one ounce of shame in his entire body and you are taking him to task for putting a positive spin on something.

the only thing I liked about abashi was the fact that in the same situation he would just tell you to suck his fat cock if you complained.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 26, 2003, 9:57 pm

kyoukan wrote: Conform or quit playing.

That really makes no sense, kyoukan. Plenty of people, yourself included, have bitched about being forced to conform to a certain standard in terms of guild size. But now that SoE is going in a direction you prefer, those with different preferences have no right to complain?

If you're saying that SoE does whatever it wants, and that no amount of complaining is going to change their minds, so people like me should just shut up, then yeah, you're probably right. But as far as I could tell, this thread was a discussion of how the game ought to be, not necessarily how it will be.

If you're suddenly championing SoE's narrowmindedness because it fits your ideals of the game, even after all the complaining you've done about being forced into larger and larger guilds, then that's ridiculously hypocritical.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 26, 2003, 9:57 pm

You fags are forgetting that guilds don't raid 100% of the time. When my guild isn't raiding, I'm going to hit LDoN for fun with some friends and crawl around. This expansion was specifically designed for small groups with a short amount of playing time each night.

This is perfect as well for members of large guilds on off nights, during the day, XPing, etc.

Are you people blind? This should be a fun expansion except for idiots that need a warning label on the box to reinforce what SOE has already told us to expect from the expansion.

If you don't like to XP, feel insecure with your manhood or womanhood in small groups, are only comfortable if you are zerging, then don't buy the expansion. For the rest of us, this will be a blast to play around in when we aren't raiding.

Fovol · Post by **Fovol** » August 26, 2003, 10:01 pm

They're currently testing raids for Time-equipped guilds (i.e. the FoH's and CD's) on beta.

Also, another issue no one has brought up, which is because it isn't very prevelant on Veeshan is DKP. DKP is widely used on other servers, especially, so what are you going to do when you're limited on the amount of people you can have?

Count everyone online? DKP for sitting in Plane of Tranquility? Nope, that won't work.

How about making multiple raids and making it worth the same amount of DKP? What if you don't have enough for two raids? That doesn't work either.

Also, distribution of items; you're going to have people shafted on loot because they didn't get picked for a raid. Eventually, you'll only want your super decked out players in the raid with you: rich get richer, poor get poorer, so to speak.

There are other reasons, but most of them were covered already. Overall, I think it's a great idea, however it's a bit late in the game to make it.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 26, 2003, 10:12 pm

Etasi wrote:
kyoukan wrote: Conform or quit playing.
That really makes no sense, kyoukan. Plenty of people, yourself included, have bitched about being forced to conform to a certain standard in terms of guild size. But now that SoE is going in a direction you prefer, those with different preferences have no right to complain?

If you're saying that SoE does whatever it wants, and that no amount of complaining is going to change their minds, so people like me should just shut up, then yeah, you're probably right. But as far as I could tell, this thread was a discussion of how the game ought to be, not necessarily how it will be.

If you're suddenly championing SoE's narrowmindedness because it fits your ideals of the game, even after all the complaining you've done about being forced into larger and larger guilds, then that's ridiculously hypocritical.

Well it was more like friendly advice than it was a command to conform to SOE's vision for this expansion, but take it however you want.

Ask anyone that raided with me or was guilded with me and they will probably tell you that I pretty much annoyed them to death with my constant complaining that raids were getting to big and gay. However in the end I conformed to SOE's playstyle to the best of my ability and became a worthless cog in a gigantic multi guild DPS machine where my presence was not required or even noticed half the time because of the 12 other groups that were there.

Eventually it got to the point where I couldn't stand it any longer and the game became not fun for me enough that I didn't feel like sticking around and putting up with everything that was bad about the game.

You can complain about it all you want. I don't really care. All I'm saying is that it's about time SOE gave something to the other 98% of the playerbase that aren't in some stupidly huge uber guild. I don't think you started playing EQ so you could raid faggoty overpowered mobs with 99 other people, but you adapted your playstyle around it. You can adapt again. You might even find out that you are having more fun at smaller raids then you were before.

In short: all the people in massive guilds that liked raiding all said to me when I complained about raids getting too big exactly what I'm saying to you now. It is the way it is, and you'll either learn to like it or stop playing. (well they didnt really say that most told me to shut the fuck up, hit autoattack and stay off guildchat so their clericbot 2000's could time their main tank complete heals in perfect zen concentration)

Although I have little doubt that eventually they will put in some new raid zones when all the crybabies start harping on their guild webpages about how they are going to quit and that themselves and their guild are the glue that holds together the very foundation of everquest etc. etc. SOE has a long history of catering to the top guild's every whim.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 26, 2003, 10:27 pm

kyoukan wrote:I don't think you started playing EQ so you could raid faggoty overpowered mobs with 99 other people, but you adapted your playstyle around it. You can adapt again. You might even find out that you are having more fun at smaller raids then you were before.

Shrug, I like the stuff we do now. It gets to be a pain to make groups for 60 people, but beyond that, it's fine.

Anyway, you're right, people will adapt. I don't think it will be the end of EQ; far from it. This expansion will probably be great for EQ, and keep a lot more people playing.

I just know that I'm going to lose friends to it, and that it's going to be hell adapting from what we're like now, to what LDoN will require us to be. I'm not looking forward to that at all, and I don't see why it's necessary. I still think the best thing to do, if they want to get rid of huge guilds, is to phase them out, not to just quit giving them content.

Winnow- sure, there's nothing wrong with exping, and plenty of people like it better than raiding. That's fine. But exping all day and night isn't for some people, just like raiding constantly isn't for some people. That hardly qualifies people like me as fags or idiots.

As for playing in LDoN on offdays etc, that'll work for a time, but eventually people will just get sick of the exisiting high end content, and all they'll be left with is LDoN exp groups. If that's what SoE really wants, then we don't have a choice, and we'll deal with it. That doesn't mean I can't think it's stupid. It's stupid to fail to provide content for any group of players. It's stupid that SoE thinks it needs to be one way or the other, large raids or small raids. Why not both? Hard caps allow that possibility.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 27, 2003, 12:31 am

Don't see what everyone is complaining about. It isn't like they aren't going to come out with another expansion after this. Damn game is like Magic Cards, you blink and there is another expansion. Ok ok, I blink longer than most I guess.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 27, 2003, 3:46 am

Bubba Grizz wrote:Don't see what everyone is complaining about. It isn't like they aren't going to come out with another expansion after this. Damn game is like Magic Cards, you blink and there is another expansion. Ok ok, I blink longer than most I guess.

There is another expansion already in development. I don't know what's it's about but I would guess it'd be a raiding expansion after LoY and LDoN. PoP has been great with SOE hopefully learing a bit about flagging.

/calm el toe

brenen · Post by **brenen** » August 27, 2003, 12:02 pm

I think the point is being missed that you earn faction points that can be saved for buying HUGE items (like getting a pool table with cigarette points)

So off days won't just being "xpsing" it will be xpsing and working towards that leet new item you want. You can down Time like mobs and can get lots of upgrades at once. On off days you can slowly work towards that augmentation to your time loot that gives you that DT you've always wanted (ok not DT but something cool im sure)

They are making it so items will still come into the game at a slow enough pace, but intead of having to get lucky with the spawning of rare mobs, you get a little big closer each time you raid with 18-36 or group with 6 in LDON. A little bit of progression on Items and XPS every day in a challenging enviroment. Isn't that really what we all want?

I do hope the next expansion is a raid expansion though. Theres nothing quite like the feeling when you try a mob with your guild and fail a few times, learning, posting, researching, discussing... and then come back and kill him.

We have plenty of content left for us in PoP of course. But if I was CD or FoH I would be quite worried I'm sure.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 27, 2003, 2:34 pm

I just know that I'm going to lose friends to it, and that it's going to be hell adapting from what we're like now, to what LDoN will require us to be. I'm not looking forward to that at all, and I don't see why it's necessary.

It's the reverse of what PoP did to many small and mid-end guilds. All you upper tier guilds can just look within your current ranks and see the vast amounts of players that joined you in the last year that came from mid-end guilds. It's not fun to see your friends being torn in seperate directions. I don't blame top tier guilds or former guildmates in any way. The game was designed in such a way that these conflicts are going to happen, even if they weren't planned on.

Companions have lost 1/2 our members, easy. At times I don't know if I'm being loyal, or being stupid for not leaving sooner. I don't even know where I'd apply should I move on anyway. Regardless, I am hoping LDoN will breath new life into the casual guilds that don't have 80 ppl on every night and who never seems to win the MoB race. If it dosen't, then keep an eye out for my application

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » August 27, 2003, 7:10 pm

Regular group (4-6) adventures last 90 minutes, unlike raid adventures which last 3 hours.

So your misfits have to do at least 2 adventures before they can "rotate" in as someone put it.

Also: Just because an adventure is given 90 minutes doesn't mean it lasts that long. I've had a few beta adventures last no more than half an hour.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 27, 2003, 8:41 pm

a) SoE are patching the whole raiding thing in last minute.

b) They really don't care if 36 member raids kill your guild, no really, they don't give a shit it would be all good for them.

c) Instead of listening to all the bullshit that "mobs in elementals are farrrr too easy now that we've been farming them for 6 months" and tuning them such that you *need* 45-50 minimum to kill a mini w/ high numbers of healers, the encounters should have been limited to 36 at the start of PoP. Day late, dollar short, typical SoE.

d) I have no doubt whatever that the 32 figure is not at ALL arbitrary; either you can't fit 72 people in the dungeons or they will lag horrendously under the strain. They not only won't be opening up the numbers regardless of player bitching, they can't.

e) As to SoE forcing people to Zerg encounters.. horseshit, total horseshit. People may well have given up before they killed many elemental mobs (pre-nerfage) w/ 36, but it was always possible. We forced SoE to tune encounters for "full" raids, they didn't force us to field them.

Skunki · Post by **Skunki** » August 28, 2003, 12:21 am

shit a 6 man crawl. comon clerics holla. there aint nothin better than being the only healer in a group. Thats where the fun in the game is for a cleric. Holding your own, mixing up your heals and being able to manage without ever having to take a med break while everyone esle pulls keeping buffs up and managed(screw mass aego etcetc! beats the hell out of /1 healing in 3 secs over and over) man those were the days when the game was fun. but what i = to fun, others do not and vice versa. Sheet i may have to dust off the ol cler to do some crawlin...then again naaaah hehe

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 28, 2003, 11:11 am

Zaelath wrote: e) As to SoE forcing people to Zerg encounters.. horseshit, total horseshit. People may well have given up before they killed many elemental mobs (pre-nerfage) w/ 36, but it was always possible. We forced SoE to tune encounters for "full" raids, they didn't force us to field them.

wtf are you talking about? yeah many elemental mobs were way too easy to be mold droppers for the first few months while people farmed the shit out of them. And many mold droppers can easily be raided with 30-40.

You can't say that because Magmaton is doable by 24, therefore PoP mobs are not tuned to be zerged. because you cant fucking ever even hail him without going through some encounters that require pretty large forces.

If anybody is even killing Bertoxx now with 30-36 i'd be impressed. And we are what 10+ months into the expansion?

Solusek Ro, yeah he can be killed with a mid sized raid. MM probably if your clerics are good. but still no way on RZtW. and certainly when all of those encounters were originally tuned, they took 50-60+ people to kill.

so you cant even get to the point where the tuning of mini-nameds in the elementals is relevant without a large guild. because you cant zone in.

And i'd love to see you try Xegony, Rathe, or Coirnav with 36. that would go *really* well.

Lexien · Post by **Lexien** » August 28, 2003, 4:58 pm

The bottom line is; this expansion is not for large raids.

Go back to PoP and pharm until the next High-end expansion comes along.

Move along.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 28, 2003, 7:29 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Zaelath wrote: e) As to SoE forcing people to Zerg encounters.. horseshit, total horseshit. People may well have given up before they killed many elemental mobs (pre-nerfage) w/ 36, but it was always possible. We forced SoE to tune encounters for "full" raids, they didn't force us to field them.
wtf are you talking about? yeah many elemental mobs were way too easy to be mold droppers for the first few months while people farmed the shit out of them. And many mold droppers can easily be raided with 30-40.

I'm talking elemental mobs, you're talking progression targets. Guilds could well have raided mold droppers w/ 36 and joined forces *purely* for progression mobs. What they actually did was build their own zerg forces or effectively raid 2 guilds as one all the time. Just because people are self absorbed and can't co-operate outside their own guild for a few hours a week doesn't mean that SoE forced their hand...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 29, 2003, 11:05 am

Just because people are self absorbed and can't co-operate outside their own guild for a few hours a week doesn't mean that SoE forced their hand...

well considering that of the first 8 guilds in the elementals on Veeshan, only 2 got that access without coraiding with another guild....

Elbryan Wyndon · Post by **Elbryan Wyndon** » August 29, 2003, 11:29 am

Hey you can still pharm Time.

My play style means I'll never see it likely. It's nice that they are giving us an expansion for the middle class. I played in LoY a lot and I like what they are doing with the revamps...especially Veksar and Nurg. I don't mind paying money for new content.

I played AC for quite a while as well. Sure they gave us a new patch every month but every month they'd have to fix all the things they screwed up. Sometimes the screw-ups were massive. AC2 is in the toilet because it is a sucky game. Now they might release an expansion for AC1 since they know they are in trouble with AC2. Point is, sony is giving us a good product by comparison and they are committed to keeping it going. If you don't like it take your whining to SWG. Max out your characters by PL'ing and then whine there is no content in the game.