Does he expect people to believe this horseshit?

What do you think about the world?
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Does he expect people to believe this horseshit?

Post by miir »

George W Bush wrote:Iraq is turning out to be a continuing battle in the war on terrorism



There's a foreign element that's moving into Iraq. And these will be al Qaeda-type fighters. They want to fight us there (in Iraq) because they can't stand the thought of a free society in the Middle East
I find it hard to believe Americans are that stupid and gullible enough to believe the shit this moron continually spews.


Before Bush announced the end of major combat, 138 U.S. service members had died......

Since Bush announced the end to major combat in Iraq on May 1, 135 U.S. troops have died
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Post by Pahreyia »

Resistance has to be coming from somewhere... Sure, Saddam supporter probably make up a large chunk of that, but I don't disbelieve his statement. I'm sure it's being embellished to make it seem like legions of Al-Qaida are moving into Iraq...

I don't see what posting death totals has to do with your original point, however.
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Post by Ebumar »

Pah, that cat looks so pissed off... Every time I see it I can't help but laugh. Is that your cat? or did you find that somewhere?
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Post by kyoukan »

It's not the fact that terrorist cells are moving into Iraq that makes his statement unbelievable, it's his justification as to why.

To think that terrorists and other types of militia want to go to Iraq and kill American and UN troops because they hate the idea of the US bringing freedom and liberty and happy magical rainbows to Iraq is beyond preposterous. Unfortunately the Coulter crowd will lap it up like dog water and pant for more because most neocons are unable to think for themselves and rely on the near constant stream of phony sounding propaganda to keep their brains functioning.

Although sometimes I give many americans too much credit. The Bush administration's plan to announce that the war was over, and then call anyone who shoots or blows up Americans in Iraq evil terrorists seems to have gone over pretty well. It must be nice to have almost total control over a signifcant portion of the population of the most powerful country in the world with a few lies that I could have thought up while taking a shit.
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Post by Pahreyia »

Ebumar wrote:Pah, that cat looks so pissed off... Every time I see it I can't help but laugh. Is that your cat? or did you find that somewhere?
I found it... but I can't remember where now. It's been a while.

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Post by Pahreyia »

kyoukan wrote:It's not the fact that terrorist cells are moving into Iraq that makes his statement unbelievable, it's his justification as to why.
It's propaganda, pure and simple... When do we not hear the same from the other side?
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Post by miir »

I don't see what posting death totals has to do with your original point, however.
Think about it a bit more.
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Post by Xzion »

heh, its still fucking amazing that MOST americans supported bushs actions in iraq, with that level of brainwashing, anything else is possible
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Post by Kelgar »

heh, its still fucking amazing that MOST americans supported bushs actions in iraq, with that level of brainwashing, anything else is possible
Yeah, must be the fault of the damned liberal media! :roll:
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Post by Tegellan »

I am a European and I believe the action against Iraq was fair.

Saddam blatantly violated the agreements with the UN and the weapons inspectors and someone had to step up to the ball. I am not a Bush supporter by any means, I think the guy is an imbecile and not fit to run a country, but he showed some balls there.
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Post by Nick »

I don't even know what to say that hasn't already been said about Bush and the U.S public.
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Post by Kylere »

Bleh too tired but Miir is still a hobbit
Last edited by Kylere on August 25, 2003, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Animale »

Its 135 since May 1st, not 1,135 since May Kylere...

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Post by miir »

Kylere wrote:Not sure where those figures came from Miir, but we have not lost over 1k since the end "major combat"

Look that up again.
I looked it up and come to the conclusion that you cannot read.
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Post by Mort »

Miir, maybe you should share with us your daily intelligence reports from the CIA, FBI, NSA, Echelon Etc... I would love to hear them. I mean, you must know it all.
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Post by Xyun »

OK one more time for the dipshits.
Before Bush announced the end of major combat, 138 U.S. service members had died......

Since Bush announced the end to major combat in Iraq on May 1, 135 U.S. troops have died




total = 138+135 = 278.
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Post by Fallanthas »

What is so hard to believe about hard-line groups being unwilling to accept a US victory on their home soil?
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Post by Akaran_D »

I'm going to say this...
If you DIDNT expect the US armed forces in Iraq to become targets for terrorist orginizations or anyone with a chip on thier shoulder about how "Bad" the US is, you missed out a very important aspect. We're in their backyard... it's easier to take a pistol 50 miles from your house to shoot a guy in the face than it is to get into our borders to do the same thing (even if it's on a much smaller scale, it serves wonders to reduce morale).

Weather it's because of the vaunted "Freedom" that the Iraqs aren't expieriencing or just because, hey, WE'RE THERE, it was a given this would happen.
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Post by Forthe »

Fallanthas wrote:What is so hard to believe about hard-line groups being unwilling to accept a US victory on their home soil?
Nothing.

Neither is it hard to believe normal Iraqis and moderates are unwilling to accept a US occupation.

It is hard to believe that these people are motivated by a hatred of FREEDOM, puppies, sugar, spice and all things nice. You have to be terribly simple minded to fall for this rhetoric.
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Post by Fallanthas »

Neither is it hard to believe normal Iraqis and moderates are unwilling to accept a US occupation.

The fastest way to get US forces out of the country is to stop opposing the effort to rebuild an Iraqi government.


"Common" people aren't committing these acts.
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Post by Kelgar »

The fastest way to get US forces out of the country is to stop opposing the effort to rebuild an Iraqi government.

"Common" people aren't committing these acts.
Uh huh. What are you going to tell them? That the champagne bottle only hurts for the first ten years? 65+% unemployment, no electricity, running water, basic sanitation services, hand-picked puppets to be the only ones allowed on the voting ballots, and a local populace becoming increasingly swayed towards fundamentalism goes to show how well planned these “efforts” are. Given the current state of affairs, the “common” people will eventually be the ones “committing these acts”.

The fastest way to get US forces out of the country (at least some) is for Bush to suck it up and request UN assistance. That won’t happen while Chimpy is too busy milking the defense budget through his energy and defense contracting cronies. We probably won’t see him defer to the UN for aid until all of his pocket lining enterprises are firmly in place. If there’s any justice in this world, this will be impossible before the 2004 election.
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Post by Xzion »

Bush ask for UN help?...just think about that
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Miir, maybe you should share with us your daily intelligence reports from the CIA, FBI, NSA, Echelon Etc... I would love to hear them. I mean, you must know it all
Oooh this sounds familiar. . .back in January. . .
Oh yeah us "Liberals" were saying the evidence didn't add up and you chumps were all shrieking "stfu youre not in the CIA we must trust them cos they know more!" and it turns out we were right and they were lieing/incompetent.
So spare us this BS again thanks.

Strangely ebnough last time this argument happened it was against a background of Bush asking for help from a divided UN. I give it 2 weeks before the deaths of US soldiers in Iraw is France's fault.
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Post by Fallanthas »

Uh huh. What are you going to tell them? That the champagne bottle only hurts for the first ten years? 65+% unemployment, no electricity, running water, basic sanitation services, hand-picked puppets to be the only ones allowed on the voting ballots, and a local populace becoming increasingly swayed towards fundamentalism goes to show how well planned these “efforts” are. Given the current state of affairs, the “common” people will eventually be the ones “committing these acts”.

Care to contrast that to a week before the war? Stop wasting time. If you have an argument, research it first.
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Post by miir »

Kylere wrote:Bleh too tired but Miir is still a hobbit
That was low.
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Post by Kelgar »

Care to contrast that to a week before the war? Stop wasting time. If you have an argument, research it first.
I've already refuted your argument (The fastest way to get US forces out of the country is to stop opposing the effort to rebuild an Iraqi government). I guess reading >> you.


As for research, what exactly is there to research about my assertion that bringing in the UN will get US troops out? Is common sense + higher math really that difficult for you? Other troops being dispatched from other UN countries = less troops the US needs to commit. Pretty simple isn't it?

As for comparison/contrast:

1.Their infrastructure wasn't in complete shambles prior to being bombed the fuck out of.

2. Plans to restore basic neccesities (ie, electricity, sanitation, water and jobs) are obviously lacking.

3.Iraq was perhaps the most socially advanced country in the ME. Their women made up half of the working population and enrollment in schools. Now most women don't dare to go outside without the support of 1 or more male family members for fear of reprisal from fundies. In many instances, educated, professional Iraqi women are either being killed or having their lives threatened if they don't stay out home like they are supposed to.

From an Iraqi woman's blog:
Over a month ago, a prominent electrical engineer (one of the smartest females in the country) named Henna Aziz was assassinated in front of her family- two daughters and her husband. She was threatened by some fundamentalists from Badir’s Army and told to stay at home because she was a woman, she shouldn’t be in charge. She refused- the country needed her expertise to get things functioning- she was brilliant. She would not and could not stay at home. They came to her house one evening: men with machine-guns, broke in and opened fire. She lost her life- she wasn’t the first, she won’t be the last.
So thus the "liberators" have become the catalyst by which Iraqi society is set back at least 50 as the fundamentalists are rapidly pressing to become the majority.
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Post by Fallanthas »

That whooshing sound was the point passing six inches above your cranium, Kelgar.

If you want to point out how bad thigns are now, the resonsible way to do it would be to contrast to, say, six weeks before the onset of hostilities. Otherwise your assertions on lack of basic necessities and such mean exactly zero.


Bringing the UN in will get rid of US troops? Who the fuck do you think the UN calls on for military support?
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Post by Mort »

I too am sick of seeing our boys get shot up, but FFS....

If I had my way, we would stop every fucking dollar from leaving this country, pull ALL our boys in and set 1 man every fucking 4 inches around our border with an M-16. Keep the money here. There would be worldwide chaos and I would laugh.
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Post by Sionistic »

what about regular trade?
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Post by Forthe »

Mort wrote:I too am sick of seeing our boys get shot up, but FFS....

If I had my way, we would stop every fucking dollar from leaving this country, pull ALL our boys in and set 1 man every fucking 4 inches around our border with an M-16. Keep the money here. There would be worldwide chaos and I would laugh.
The US needs more isolationists. You would do a lot less damage.
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Post by Fallanthas »

And your life expectancy would be much shorter, sir.
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Post by Lohrno »

Forthe wrote: The US needs more isolationists. You would do a lot less damage.
I agree. We need to stop putting our nose in places that don't concern us.

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Post by Forthe »

Fallanthas wrote:And your life expectancy would be much shorter, sir.
My life expectancy wouldn't be change at all.

Actually it might lessen the chance of the US fumbling into a world war so it could improve it.
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Post by Fallanthas »

I'm glad you don't profit at all from the improvements in medicine, hygeine and such that occur here then Forthe.


What planet do you live on?
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Post by Forthe »

Fallanthas wrote:I'm glad you don't profit at all from the improvements in medicine, hygeine and such that occur here then Forthe.

What planet do you live on?
No profit here. We don't charge for healthcare.

Not even the poor people.
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Post by Kelshara »

If I had my way, we would stop every fucking dollar from leaving this country, pull ALL our boys in and set 1 man every fucking 4 inches around our border with an M-16. Keep the money here. There would be worldwide chaos and I would laugh.
What money? Seen Dubya's way of building a deficit lately?

As for Iraq.. they did indeed have less unemployment, better water/electricity access and more freedom for women before. There is no way you can try to deny that.
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Post by Kelgar »

That whooshing sound was the point passing six inches above your cranium, Kelgar.
Oh the irony.

If you want to point out how bad thigns are now, the resonsible way to do it would be to contrast to, say, six weeks before the onset of hostilities. Otherwise your assertions on lack of basic necessities and such mean exactly zero.
I can see reading is still >> you.

They are much worse off now than they were prior to invasion. That is a fact as plain as fucking day.

From some pussy ass French journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave.
Rice's infrastructure demurrer also flunked the credulity test. Prior to the U.S. invasion, Iraq's rickety, Third World infrastructure managed to provide water and electricity to Baghdad and other cities and towns.
Now they are without both. That sure was hard. The rest of my assertions were basically ripped verbatim from the Iraqi woman's blog which I bet you couldn't be bothered to read. After all, what the fuck could someone who is experiencing the occupation firsthand know about anything anyway?
Bringing the UN in will get rid of US troops? Who the fuck do you think the UN calls on for military support?
Oh yeah. Silly me. I forgot that UN sponsored missions are entirely made up of US troops. Ok Forest, here's what I said. I'll say it again veeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrryyyyy sssslllllllooooooooooooowwwwlllllllyyyyy. Bringing in the UN means less US troops (are you with me?) need to remain deployed because other UN countries are sharing the burden. Nowhere did I ever say that bringing in the UN would completely eliminate the presence of US military in Iraq.
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Post by Markulas »

I'm soo glad Dubya is running for president in Iraq.

/sarcasm off
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

If the current goal is to get things in Iraq up and running as quickly as possible, I don't see how introducing the UN is a speed multiplier.

If anything introducing the UN would cause delays in getting stuff done.
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Post by Kelgar »

If the current goal is to get things in Iraq up and running as quickly as possible, I don't see how introducing the UN is a speed multiplier.

If anything introducing the UN would cause delays in getting stuff done.

Uh no. They see the US troops as oppressors whereas a UN force would be seen more as peacekeepers. They (and most of the rest of the world for that matter) see the US as no more than a thinly veiled imperialist state (at least under the current administration). The Iraqis are less likely to violently oppose every effort on part of the UN thus things would more likely get done faster.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

I have a hard time accepting that considering the recent terrorist target was a large UN building.

That action says that the troublemakers view the UN just the same as the Americans.
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Post by Kelgar »

No kidding. The question is whether or not the troublemakers are Iraqis or from the flood of people sneaking in from Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. Evidence has pointed to the latter.
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Post by Fallanthas »

I think you had better find another source, Kelgar. Electricity for six hours a day (if you happen to live in one of a handful of cities who had electricity) and sanitary conditions estimated to be killing 6,000 people a month ain't exactly Nirvana.



Forthe, you can't be that dense. Let me make the point another way. Where were your doctors schooled? Where does their equipment come from?
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Post by Forthe »

Fallanthas wrote:I think you had better find another source, Kelgar. Electricity for six hours a day (if you happen to live in one of a handful of cities who had electricity) and sanitary conditions estimated to be killing 6,000 people a month ain't exactly Nirvana.
More US intelligence?
Fallanthas wrote:Forthe, you can't be that dense. Let me make the point another way. Where were your doctors schooled? Where does their equipment come from?
You can't really be this pompous or ignorant.

In any case I figure I can get a few doctors at the medical school across town that sees a never ending stream of US recruiters.

The equipment I really can't say as I do not know. Willing to bet its some third world country with cheap labor however.
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Post by Fallanthas »

That's the figure the political arm of UNICEF came up with, Forthe. You can go argue with them if you like.


As for your assertions considering medicine, if you are too dense to figure out where the technology is coming from, who is pioneering the procedures being used and what schools are turning out the majority of the worlds doctors, you really ought to keep your mouth shut on the subject.
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Post by Forthe »

Fallanthas wrote:That's the figure the political arm of UNICEF came up with, Forthe. You can go argue with them if you like.

As for your assertions considering medicine, if you are too dense to figure out where the technology is coming from, who is pioneering the procedures being used and what schools are turning out the majority of the worlds doctors, you really ought to keep your mouth shut on the subject.
Please back this up with some numbers. I'll give you some...

China 161.7 doctors/100,000 population (1998).

United States of America 279.0/100,000 (1995)

Canada 229.1/100,000 (1995)

Pioneering what procedures being used?
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Post by Forthe »

US Statistics:

Total population: 285,925,000

GDP per capita (Intl $): 34,637

Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 74.3/79.5

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 66.4/68.8

Child mortality m/f (per 1000): 9/7

Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 144/83

Total health expenditure per capita (Intl $): 4,499

Total health expenditure as % of GDP: 13.0
Canada Statistics:

Total population: 31,014,000

GDP per capita (Intl $): 27,956

Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 76.6/81.9

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 68.2/71.6

Child mortality m/f (per 1000): 6/5

Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 98/59

Total health expenditure per capita (Intl $): 2,534

Total health expenditure as % of GDP: 9.1
It seems you are doing such a good job extending my life expectency that I'll probably live longer than you and spend less on health care doing so.
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Post by Kelshara »

hum our doctors are educated in Norway (with a very few attending other European schools), the equipment is Scandinavian and German.. how do I know? My dad is a personel/financial manager at a hospital in Oslo heh..
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Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

Forthe wrote:It seems you are doing such a good job extending my life expectency that I'll probably live longer than you and spend less on health care doing so.
Of course you also get quite a few of those dollars from US residents and other tourists paying the exorbitant taxes on canadian goods. You might spend less, but you in most likelihood cost more to treat.
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Post by masteen »

Kelshara wrote:As for Iraq.. they did indeed have less unemployment, better water/electricity access and more freedom for women before. There is no way you can try to deny that.
As long as you define freedom as "toeing the Baathist Party line," there is no denying it.
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