International cooperation rulz

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » August 13, 2003, 6:00 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3146357.stm

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 13, 2003, 6:42 am

why the hell would an arms dealer care what the buyer was going to use the missile on

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » August 13, 2003, 7:06 am

Quite.
F arms dealers.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 13, 2003, 7:35 am

well it just struck me as odd.

I read the article on fox news and they hardly even mentioned the guy, but they mentioned like five times that the FBI guy disguised as a buyer was posing as a muslim terrorist and that the arms dealer wanted the missile to be used on a jet. it was like they were trying to blame muslim terrorists even though the transaction was completely relegated to the two government's law enforcement and the arms dealer.

Burke · Post by **Burke** » August 13, 2003, 9:48 am

Doesn't selling weapons to people one percieves as being terrorists count as supporting terrorism?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 13, 2003, 10:43 am

Almost seems as if his interest in what the missile was going to be used for is the point of the article. Going to hang him for intent, I imagine.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 13, 2003, 11:42 am

he was probably just trying to "make the sale"

you know how salesmen tell you bullshit about all kinds of things.

i can imagine going to an arms dealer, and he thinks i'm a terrorist.

and he's like "screw those Jews" (even though he's half jewish)

anyway you get the point

Post by **Xouqoa** » August 13, 2003, 11:57 am

lol Vor

What it was going to be used for is a moot point anyway. Importing that type of weaponry into the country is, most likely, highly illegal.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 13, 2003, 11:59 am

I heard (in passing) on the radio this morning that they found a bunch of anti-U.S. stuff in his house, including audio or video taped messages in support of 9/11 and some other things. I don't know the validity of any of it, but the news woman normally just reads stuff off of the wire, so I'm assuming there will be more about it in the hours to come.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » August 13, 2003, 12:40 pm

I heard (in passing) on the radio this morning that they found a bunch of anti-U.S. stuff in his house, including audio or video taped messages in support of 9/11 and some other things.

Yeah but so what? Is that a crime even in the US? He lives in London, and as far as I know, its not illegal in the UK to possess political propaganda, no matter how distasteful. Hell, is the US now going press for extradition for half the Liberal caucus in the Canadian parliament for espousing anti-American views? I mean I wouldn't hurt my feelings if the 82nd Airborne dropped in and whistled Herb Dhaliwal and a few others off to Gitmo (you can keep him if you want) but...

Prejudice and ignorance aren't crimes in the Western World. Smuggling antiaircraft weapons and selling them to unregulated entities is. That is what this should be about, not who he hates or votes for.

Post by **Sylvus** » August 13, 2003, 1:03 pm

I mentioned that only because someone said it looked like they were trying to pin a terrorist rap on him. It seems relevant in that context. People are free to hate the U.S. all they want, I'll certainly allow them that. That's their opinion and perhaps they have good reasons for it that I just don't agree with. Maybe I do even agree with some of their reasons. But encouraging or facilitating an attack on the United States is something I definitely do not agree with.

For whatever reason, the articles are spotlighting the fact that he was trying to sell to an FBI agent posing as a muslim terrorist living in the U.S. That coupled with the fact that he is "down" with the perpetrators of 9/11 would lead me to believe that he's hoping for more of that action. In my opinion there's little purpose inside the borders of the United States for a missile of that capability that isn't nefarious. That makes me change my opinion on this case from "lock him up" to "string him up".

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » August 13, 2003, 2:08 pm

Xouqoa wrote:lol Vor

What it was going to be used for is a moot point anyway. Importing that type of weaponry into the country is, most likely, highly illegal.

It sure is. Too bad it was all a set up from the get go. Click Me!!!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 13, 2003, 3:05 pm

well the government is certainly trying to get a lot of PR mileage out of the arrest. Hard to know if it is really that significant of an arrest or not.

Certainly its not a bad thing that this guy was busted, but hard to say if it really is anything that is a huge deal or not.

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » August 13, 2003, 4:22 pm

The Igla provided by the Russian security services in this case had been modified so it could not be fired.

Hmm, no PR work going on here.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 13, 2003, 5:12 pm

Yeah the whole thing seems like entrapment to me. No doubt he'll get railroaded into prison for the rest of his life anyway.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » August 14, 2003, 6:04 am

I'm not going to lose any sleep over shady arms dealers who sell black market missiles without giving a shit where they're going. Lock 'em up.
I'm sure the fact that the buyer was mentioning being a muslim extremist every other sentence didn't matter in the slightest as long as the money was there. But the simple fact is that you can't really pass off a missile as "home defence" or "farming equipment". Blah I'm rambling you all get the picture.

Fuck arms dealers. From guys like this all the way up to my government for selling weapons to oppressive governments.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 14, 2003, 6:53 am

vn_Tanc wrote:I'm not going to lose any sleep over shady arms dealers who sell black market missiles without giving a shit where they're going. Lock 'em up.

I would rather see my government do things by the book. If they don't obey laws then who is left that will?

Not that I'm saying that its a clear case of entrapment or that the guy is innocent, but I don't agree with law enforcement special permission to disobey the law.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 14, 2003, 7:53 am

kyoukan wrote:
vn_Tanc wrote:I'm not going to lose any sleep over shady arms dealers who sell black market missiles without giving a shit where they're going. Lock 'em up.
I would rather see my government do things by the book. If they don't obey laws then who is left that will?

Not that I'm saying that its a clear case of entrapment or that the guy is innocent, but I don't agree with law enforcement special permission to disobey the law.

Oh please must you cast your black cloud over everything?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 14, 2003, 8:27 am

She has a point though. It is about leading by example, and not the old, tired "Do as I say and not as I do" thing.

Law enforcement agencies and govenments should not be above the law.

Edit: Spelling > Me before coffee!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » August 14, 2003, 8:35 am

Kelshara wrote:She has a point though. It is about leading by example, and not the old, tired "Do as I say and nto as I do" thing.

Law enforcement agencies and govenments should not be above the law.

I agree /sigh