WTF is up with old people

Acies · Post by **Acies** » July 16, 2003, 8:37 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/16/f ... index.html

SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- A car plowed through a crowded farmers market Wednesday, killing eight people, including a 2-year-old child, authorities said.

More than 40 are injured -- 14 critically -- they said.

Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said the driver of the car, who appeared to be in his 80s, is in custody after being released from a local hospital. Butts said there was no alcohol or psychiatric medications in the man's system.

He said the man was in stable condition, conscious and talking to officers at the police station.

Butts said officers have interviewed more than 100 witnesses who give conflicting reports regarding the driver's demeanor at the time of the incident.

"So now we're attempting to determine whether this was a straight accident -- medically related -- criminal negligence or criminal homicide," Butts said.

Joe Chrisman works in a building along the street where the market is held. He witnessed the accident and said the driver appeared befuddled.

"He looked very, very confused," Chrisman said. "I think he was just mentally out of touch. He seemed very confused when he stepped out of the car. He definitely shouldn't have been behind the wheel. He was definitely not quite with it."

Chrisman said there was a woman underneath the man's car, and after a bicycle policeman apprehended the driver, a group of about 10 people together lifted the car off of the victim, who was still breathing.

Video shot by local news station helicopters showed several people being treated by emergency personnel on top of red sheets in the street. Ambulances and police cars crowded the area, and a damaged red car sat among debris.

As police roped off the crime scene, a child's blue stroller sat empty in the street amid bodies covered with yellow tarps.

Chrisman said he ran outside to help after the accident.

There was "so much carnage," he said.

A spokeswoman for the Santa Monica Policed Department said the Wednesday market is usually extremely busy, with three city blocks devoted to the market stalls and closed to all but pedestrian traffic.

According to the city's Web site, 9,000 people visit the market each week.

Wtf, seriously, this is hard to comprehend.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » July 16, 2003, 8:45 pm

Just watched my grandfather pass away ten days ago. In his last few weeks, we spent a lot of time at various care facilities and nursing homes.

It doesn't surprise me at all that someone at that age was not fit to drive, nor that they were unable to recoignize the fact.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » July 16, 2003, 8:48 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Just watched my grandfather pass away ten days ago. In his last few weeks, we spent a lot of time at various care facilities and nursing homes.

It doesn't surprise me at all that someone at that age was not fit to drive, nor that they were unable to recoignize the fact.

Jesus, sorry about your grandfather Falla.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 16, 2003, 9:02 pm

People over 70 should have to take an in car driver's test once a year for the rest of their lives if they want to drive.

My poor Porsche was totalled about 3 weeks ago by the biggest fucking RV I have ever seen. I parked it at the bank where I do deposits for work, went in, heard a huge smash, and everyone ran outside. My car was squashed so badly up against the wall I'm surprised it didn't go right through the cinderblock. It was in the paper the next day; it looked like Truckzilla ate it. If I was in it I would have been killed instantly. The driver of the RV was an 87 year old woman who apparently got the brake confused with the gas, panicked and floored it even harder when the RV didn't stop. The stupid old cunt should have had her liscense taken away when kennedy was president but she somehow managed to not die up until the point where she got to write my little red car off.

Although as unfortunate as it all is, young people are probably responsible for 10x more traffic deaths per year than senior citizens.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » July 16, 2003, 9:29 pm

In cases of royally FUBARed accidents involving old people, flooring the gas pedal instead of the brakes seems to be the most common mistake.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » July 16, 2003, 9:34 pm

Difference:

Gas - Car does not stop

Break - You dont kill shit.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 16, 2003, 11:07 pm

When I moved to Michigan a decade ago and I was getting my license changed over, there was a very old man right in front of me renewing his license. His wife had to answer all the questions posed to him by the clerk (address, birthdate, etc.) and she even had to help him sign his name. He was clearly unable to do it on his own.

When they left and it was my turn, I could not help but ask the clerk how the hell they could give that man a license when it was obvious that he had no business being behind the wheel of car. The guy nodded his head, shrugged his shoulders, and told me that if they denied the man a license they would be open to a lawsuit from the man, as well as from groups like AARP.

PC > common sense, it seems.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » July 17, 2003, 12:08 am

another factor to the flooring, etc is that a lot of old people drive with a foot on the gas and the other on the break like they did in the good ol days, hence why they do stupid shit like that =/

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 17, 2003, 12:49 am

My mother was killed in '97 by an 83-year-old man driving a Lincoln Grand Marquis who ran a red light and broke his ankle on the gas pedal.

Jassun · Post by **Jassun** » July 17, 2003, 1:24 am

Sorry to hear that Fallanthas and Xyun.

Unless my memory is bad, can't California residents (e.g. Santa Monica) renew their license by mail indefinitely with no type of personal contact or examination by the DMV (unless there are outstanding legal issues, of course)???

Or something like that. Any current Californian know the facts???

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » July 17, 2003, 1:50 am

Mak wrote:PC > common sense, it seems.

It's not that it's PC, it's that the elderly have a lot of political clout and no one wants to piss them off. They're the ones that are out there voting, more so than other age groups. Is it still stupid that people who can barely see and don't know their own name can drive? Yes.

Jassun: I'm not sure exactly how the laws in CA are worded, but I know that it's been decades since my dad has had to renew his driver's license in person at the DMV, because he hasn't gotten a ticket or been in an accident for many years. Of course, he's only in his 50s, and in good mental and physical health, so any laws pertaining to the elderly wouldn't apply to him yet.

There are plenty of elderly people that are capable of driving without endangering others, but even so, I don't think it's unreasonable to require people over the age of 65 or so to take an exam every year.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 17, 2003, 2:47 am

Etasi wrote:
Mak wrote:PC > common sense, it seems.
It's not that it's PC, it's that the elderly have a lot of political clout and no one wants to piss them off. They're the ones that are out there voting, more so than other age groups. Is it still stupid that people who can barely see and don't know their own name can drive? Yes.

Noted, and agree.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » July 17, 2003, 3:45 am

i agree when you hit 65 you should have to take it ... then at 70 again .. .and every 2 years ... i work at a grocery store ... i push carts and the only people i have almost been hit by (total of 6) were all over 60 just goes to show you ... old people can't drive and are a risk to public health !

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 17, 2003, 5:53 am

Here in Norway we have fairly strict laws on this. You have to go in for yearly (I think it is yearly) medical checks when you get older if you want to keep your license.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 17, 2003, 7:21 am

Mak wrote:Noted, and agree.

what the hell get off the internet

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » July 17, 2003, 9:24 am

kyoukan wrote:People over 70 should have to take an in car driver's test once a year for the rest of their lives if they want to drive.

It'll never happen because it will upset the people that make up the largest demo for voter turnout. I'm just wishing there were more retirees in my district, maybe they wouldn't have passed the increased school budget (thx even higher property taxes).

There is an older woman in my complex though, and when she gets behind the wheel of her husband's Ford Thunderbird(!), WATCH OUT!. You could sell tickets just watching her try to pull into a parking space

Fredonia Coldheart · Post by **Fredonia Coldheart** » July 17, 2003, 11:23 am

Aye, in person tests should be required for both the very old and the very young on a yearly basis. Plus medical reviews for the elderly.

My family was very relieved when my father voluntarily gave up his driver's license when he started having blood clots in his lungs. The doctors never could tell where they were coming from. Just every now and then he would have bad breathing spells or even pass out.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 17, 2003, 11:45 am

Xzion wrote:another factor to the flooring, etc is that a lot of old people drive with a foot on the gas and the other on the break like they did in the good ol days, hence why they do stupid shit like that =/

Do you take special classes to remove intelligence or does it come naturally with every pull on the bong?

In the "good old days", those people had one foot on the clutch and the other operated the brake and the gas. You can't fucking brake a manual transmission without also either being in neutral or depressing the clutch or the vehicle will fucking stall.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 17, 2003, 12:12 pm

At the very least, people over the age of 65 should have to take a vision test every year.

It's a medical fact that our vision gets worse with age, with very few exceptions.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 17, 2003, 1:16 pm

He killed and injured more people than a typical suicide bomber, using just his car. What the fuck was he driving?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 17, 2003, 1:23 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:He killed and injured more people than a typical suicide bomber, using just his car. What the fuck was he driving?

Buick LeSabre. It's not even one of those land yachts that most fogies prefer. Then again, even a Miata doing 60 is lethal.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » July 17, 2003, 2:35 pm

In Denmark, the law states that people over the age of 70 must renew their license every year, and that includes an up-to-date statement from their personal physician that they are fit to drive.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 17, 2003, 2:39 pm

I know the 3rd st. Promenade area pretty well, and where it meets Arizona Ave...the whole damn street there is closed off during Farmers Market hours! So how the fuck the guy did this, I cannot understand. Not only did he mistake the gas for the brake, but he got going down a closed road.

/boggle

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » July 17, 2003, 3:25 pm

i see people that can only walk with the help of holding onto something ... how are they gonna use their legs quickly if they need to? that scares me

rhyae · Post by **rhyae** » July 17, 2003, 4:03 pm

It's a new trend...

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/ind ... 1058468334

excerpt:Witnesses said the eastbound Continental veered toward the cyclists, cutting into the group head-on about halfway through their ranks, then dispatching the cyclists like dominoes.

As many as 40 cyclists were riding west on 30th Avenue N Sunday morning when a car traveling east attempted to pass a slow-moving car. It veered across the double yellow lines, injuring 13 cyclists.

Cyclists slammed into the car's windshield, cracking it into a spider web of glass. Bike wheels and handlebars went spinning. Some riders were thrown so forcefully off their cycles that their shoes remained in the pedals.

"Men and women were screaming, bodies were flying," Ryder said. "A wheel went flying right in front of me. It was like an explosion. There were bicycle parts everywhere, blood everywhere."

Miller estimated the car was going 30 mph. The car left no skid marks.

The car ran over a curb, the bikes underneath it scraping against the sidewalk, eventually stopping it. One neighbor inside his house thought a car had knocked over garbage cans. Another said it sounded like a car thumping fence posts.

Neighbors reported hearing Pastore say a variety of things.

"He said, 'I must have hit something,' " said Roy Luers, whose yard was the car's final resting place. "He was out of it. He didn't know."

Another said Pastore told her something had flown into his eye. Another saw a diabetic necklace dangling from his neck.

Pastore told police he tried to pass another car, even though he was traveling in a no-pass zone. Police want to find the other motorist, who was driving an older-model, light-colored, foreign- made car. That motorist is not facing charges, police said.

Neighbors and cyclists with cell phones dialed 911 while tending to the wounded. Ten ambulances were dispatched. Ryder tended to a man with serious leg and pelvis injuries. His helmet was split down the back.

The guy was 60, with disabilities. So not old old, but no business driving a car.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » July 17, 2003, 4:42 pm

The man on the right is the mass slaughter. I think he should be put to death even tho he prolly has no fucking clue what he did. Make him a example. I dont see why they shouldnt seeing how he killed 2 year olds, mothers and fathers.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 17, 2003, 4:49 pm

Yeah, Raistin, kill the guy, and make an example of him! That'll teach those old people not to be senile!

/scoff

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 17, 2003, 4:50 pm

Had a situation like this last year at the bakery I was working at. Except the lady wasn't old...maybe in her thirties

She was pulling into a parking spot, hit the gas instead of the break, nailed a car, floored it in a panic, and drove through a brick pillar and a 12' x 12' wall of windows...the car came to a stop halfway into the suite next door...She was freaking out...and changed the story changed several times...she said her brakes went out...but she definately floored the gas...the only thing she could say was "Please don't tell my husband"

Was a seriously fucked up day...

Anyways, to tie in...I think not only should we regulate elderly driver's liscenses...but we should be more strict with everyone's...There is plenty of mass transit available in most metropolitan areas that I'm aware of...driving is a privelge, not a right...

I know in Texas they started making people come in and retake the written portion for renewals...but it was a random hatpick, and you're name was put in every other renewal or something...not very effective I must say.

edit. typo

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » July 17, 2003, 5:12 pm

Ever go to a DMV? Im sure if you have then you see the lines and how backed up everything is. The reason they don't make elderly take road tests is because the DMV is so backed up with schedueled road tests for learners, that if they had to test every single elderly person it would back them up for years.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » July 17, 2003, 11:26 pm

not where i am .... its more like they go ok go out back we'll be there in a second but they do tell you the "you need to stand in this line then go over there in that line then come back to this line .. "

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » July 18, 2003, 2:53 am

Yes he should be put to death or die in a fucking jail. Just because he is old, doesnt mean jack and shit. I will bet my fucking left nut if a 19 year old did that, he would have been charged THAT day. Not a "he may have possable charges down the road." bullshit.

I found out tonight a Cousin of mine was one of the people he fucking ran over. Good thing she is still alive tho and only a broken foot.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 19, 2003, 8:32 am

That guy is a repeat offender. He had no business driving at all. 86???? WTF, really. Regardless of age, he killed over 15 people and gave some lameass brakes != gas excuse. BULLSHIT. He blanked out. Yes, he should be prosecuted. People, regardless of age, should be treated the same--especially in California where most people on the road are dumbfucks.

Those people would be alive today if the fucking DMV had their shit together and banned that fuck from the road when he went south. I saw those assholes at the DMV wave a geriatric through after a 20-minute vision test. FUCK THAT.

According to the media, there was a video of him crashed into someone's lawn....same car, same guy. The people involved thought it was 'cute'.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » July 21, 2003, 10:33 am

There is plenty of mass transit available in most metropolitan areas

And if the person in question doesn't live in a metro area?

Don't get me wrong, I would be in favor of much stricter criteria both to get and to maintain a driving license, but don't fool yourself into thinking that mass transit is available to much more than half the US population.

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » July 21, 2003, 11:20 am

Last time I was renewing my licence I saw an old lady like that taking a vision test. I don't know how old she was but she was accompanied by another woman well into 60's who referred to her as "mom"

The lady behind the counter was speaking loud enough that I could hear her, but the daughter had to repeat everything she said to her mom and even then the old lady didn't seem to understand what is required of her to do. She didn't seem to understand the concept of lighht flashing inside of that machine and had trouble reading the letters. All that after some 5 minutes of figuring out how to even look into that machine.

I don't know how it all ended because my turn came and I went to another window far from the lady but I sure hope they didn't renew her licence. If she apparently can't see and can't hear or just comprehend what's going on around her I don't wanna be anywhere near her when she pulls out of her driveway.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » July 21, 2003, 1:05 pm

That's assuming she could even make it out of her driveway in one piece.

I was picking my car up at a gas station after getting some work done and a woman, just as decrepit as the one you described, was picking up her car after she had the brakes checked (not surprisingly, nothing was wrong with them). We all stared in amazment as she makes a left out of the station where you can't since it's a four lane highway, drives through a red light and continues down the road on the wrong side. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 21, 2003, 3:31 pm

Fall,
Yeah you're right...but there is an abundance of assisted living, as well as in home caretakers...

I'm not quite sure what the answer is...but i know that allowing people at an age where they need help doing daily activities to drive a vehicle putting many other people at risk of life or limb is not the answer.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 21, 2003, 5:45 pm

This is one time that this quote was abused!

Deward · Post by **Deward** » July 23, 2003, 10:46 am

Driving is definitely a privilege, not a right. The DMV failed here in continuing to issue licenses to people who shouldn't be driving. They need to watch these older people more closely and get the doctor evaluations as well.

I am also of the firm opinion that a good amount of the asses on the road today shouldn't be driving regardless of age. The driving tests are entirely too easy in this country. I talked to someone from Britain once and she said the testing there was way harder and that most people failed their test at least once. We need a much tougher testing standard here.

Deward

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » July 23, 2003, 11:12 am

Hard to test rl situations like putting on your makup, talking on the cell, hunting for change, etc etc

Most accidents occur because of outside distractions. Just about the rest of them occur because of shitty judgements (young driver problem) or shitty motor skills (older driver problem). They charge obscene amount for car insurance in NJ if you're a teen and very little if you're old. I have no idea what the actuaries were thinking when they priced the latter

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » July 23, 2003, 11:31 am

there are millions of voting, paranoid, senile people living in this country that are quick to sue at anything that looks like its disrespecting or demeaning or something of that sort.(word escapes me right now)
There should definatly be stricter standards for driving tests and fines for outside distraction (I dont give a fuck if you need make up bitch you can pull over and put it on instead of dabbing at 75mph)
My mom puts on make up whiles she drives no matter how much i warn her about it and i seriously beleive it would take a fine, not an accident, to get her to stop.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » July 23, 2003, 11:38 am

A couple of states have attempted to enact legislation that requires tests above age_X. They were shot down because they discriminated against the elderly. A case by case method doesn't work well, but that's about all you're going to get.

My grandmother shouldn't have been driving at 50, and continued to drive after her license was taken away at age ~70 until she totaled the car. My great great aunt was perfectly functional at 90. Where\how do you draw the line?

Requiring an annual vision test is a decent start at the least. I'm pretty sure MO did that, FL doesn't.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 23, 2003, 11:43 am

Actually, the problem is a symptom of having too many fucking lawyers!
Lawyers are ruining the country, the world, and ah fuck it, the whole damn universe!

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » July 23, 2003, 2:26 pm

Kill all the lawyers... Shakespear said that didn't he?

Topper · Post by **Topper** » July 23, 2003, 2:31 pm

Skogen wrote:Actually, the problem is a symptom of having too many fucking lawyers!
Lawyers are ruining the country, the world, and ah fuck it, the whole damn universe!

I will refrain from calling you a dumbass.

There are a lot of lawyers, but they are NEEDED. Lol, my dad is 63, and he is still fucking working his ass off for people.

He had a client that was filing for bankrupcy, and his client said "a dime a laywer" my dad almost decked the fool. The fact is, is that lawyers are needed. That is a safe occupation, that pays a lot and will always be needed.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 23, 2003, 2:40 pm

Topper wrote:
Skogen wrote:Actually, the problem is a symptom of having too many fucking lawyers!
Lawyers are ruining the country, the world, and ah fuck it, the whole damn universe!
I will refrain from calling you a dumbass.

There are a lot of lawyers, but they are NEEDED. Lol, my dad is 63, and he is still fucking working his ass off for people.

He had a client that was filing for bankrupcy, and his client said "a dime a laywer" my dad almost decked the fool. The fact is, is that lawyers are needed. That is a safe occupation, that pays a lot and will always be needed.

Unfortunately there are very few lawyers left like your dad. He's old school, probably got into it to help people, and make sure justice is done.

Nowadays, there are a lot of vampires, who assume screw people over for money over doing what is right....but then again hasn't that always been the conundrum of being a lawyer? Maybe I've just been in LA too long....

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » July 23, 2003, 2:46 pm

Skogen wrote:Nowadays, there are a lot of vampires, who assume screw people over for money over doing what is right....but then again hasn't that always been the conundrum of being a lawyer? Maybe I've just been in LA too long....

Lawyers require clients, they don't hire themselves.

Our "Not my fault" society is the problem, not what some people in it do for a living. People taking personal responsibility for thier own actions would relieve much of the need for lawyers.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » July 23, 2003, 3:38 pm

Lawyers require clients, they don't hire themselves.

Lawyers made it so that doing regular business requires their services. Buying a house, need a lawyer. Getting a divorce, need a lawyer. Want to lease a fucking Sabretts cart to sell hotdogs, need a lawyer.

I was explaining to my cousin, a corporate lawyer, about my new job roughly two weeks ago. He couldn't believe that my hospital and our providers work up reimbursement contracts w/out lawyer services. I told him it's because we refuse to use legalese as the primary language. Saves both sides from having to hire a team of fucking lawyers, that only serve to muck up the process of something that's, at it's heart, rather simple.

Sorry Top, your father is in a field that's hated for a reason. It's not even just about frivolous lawsuits or whatever 5% of the lawyers that are actually trial lawyers do. It's about the other 95% that completely fuck up the way business is run. They are NEEDED because they entrapped the people into NEEDING them. Jesus, just to make a fucking Will you need them because the only document that will stand up in court if there's a dispute is one that's created by a lawyer. Fuckers have no accountability too boot. I can go on all day

Deward · Post by **Deward** » July 23, 2003, 4:27 pm

Totally agree with you chidoro.

90% of lawyers give the other 10% a bad name.

Deward

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 23, 2003, 4:50 pm

My wife is a physician, and she has many horror stories of frivilous malpractice suites that have been WON. When I have the time, I will post some of the deets, but in a nutshell example this guy signed out of the hospital AMA, and still fucking won.

Topper · Post by **Topper** » July 23, 2003, 4:53 pm

lol chid, you bring up a will. A Will itself is VERY complicated, i dont know if you have actually ever seen one. You'd be stupid if you didnt get a lawyer to help you with that. In court, you have people who can twist what a will says if its not written precise and explains everything. There is no "well, it meant to say.."

Lawyers havent 'entrapped' themselves into anything. They KNOW the laaw, and every bit of the law. You would be a complete tard if you think you can do all your legal work with out help. The law changes every freaking year.

Sides, i know that some lawyers are snakes, but to say 90% of the field is? That is the kinda bullshit that makes me mad. I have met a few of my fathers old partners in firms etc. I garuntee they arent rats out for your $$. Although, i agree, some ARE like that.

Can you say you met more than perhaps 1 lawyer or 2? Or are you a fan of the newspaper. Cause holy shit, the newspaper never ever is inaccurate!

Carry on with your stereotyped views! I wont even argue about it anymore. Lol, guess i am biased cause i know my dad is an honest man.