Tour de France thread.

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Post by Tegellan »

Today is going to be very exciting, Armstrong didn't look good for most of yeaterday's stage, he looked hollow eyed and not at all focused. What i think saved him is that the other riders didn't seem to notice how tired he was.

Ullrich actually looked surprised when he looked back after catching up with Vinukourov and saw that Armstrong wasn't right behind him. Then of course he rode the rest of the stage like a bat out of hell. Big applause to Ullrich.

On a more Danish note, way to go Sastre, top ride by him and a well deserved win.
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Post by Kelshara »

It's been an interesting 3 days for sure, eh? :) 3 people within 18 seconds, the most exciting Tour that I can remember and well.. lots of fun! I do wish Beloki was till in it, if nothing else than to add another attacker. Vinokurov is showing amazing strenght that nobody would have believed ("Vinokurov? Pft he can't last a 3-week Tour!"), and well.. Ulrich is showing some strenghts while US Postal is showing some weaknesses.

A few things surprise me so far:
- Ulrich. Damn that man can push himself.
- Vinokurov. Could have sworn he would fall off, and certainly not attack like this!
- Heras. The man is not as strong as he has been previously. Did you see how he met the wall hard?
- US Postal. Wtf do they send people off when riders break off? I mean, today they sent one of the GOOD mountain guys to follow the early break, and that left Lance with less support.
- Do Vinokurov and Ulrich cooperate to take care of Armstrong? Germans are desperate for a big win, and either a German team (Vinokurov's Telekom) or a German rider (Ulrich) would be great for them.

Anyway, Monday will be exciting. It is cited as the hardest day of the Tour, and unless Lance gets a miracle I am not sure if he can make it.
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Post by noel »

Kelshara wrote:It's been an interesting 3 days for sure, eh? :) 3 people within 18 seconds, the most exciting Tour that I can remember and well.. lots of fun! I do wish Beloki was till in it, if nothing else than to add another attacker. Vinokurov is showing amazing strenght that nobody would have believed ("Vinokurov? Pft he can't last a 3-week Tour!"), and well.. Ulrich is showing some strenghts while US Postal is showing some weaknesses.

A few things surprise me so far:
- Ulrich. Damn that man can push himself.
- Vinokurov. Could have sworn he would fall off, and certainly not attack like this!
- Heras. The man is not as strong as he has been previously. Did you see how he met the wall hard?
- US Postal. Wtf do they send people off when riders break off? I mean, today they sent one of the GOOD mountain guys to follow the early break, and that left Lance with less support.
- Do Vinokurov and Ulrich cooperate to take care of Armstrong? Germans are desperate for a big win, and either a German team (Vinokurov's Telekom) or a German rider (Ulrich) would be great for them.

Anyway, Monday will be exciting. It is cited as the hardest day of the Tour, and unless Lance gets a miracle I am not sure if he can make it.
I don't understand how you can say that about Vinokourov... He's completed more Tours than Ullrich, he was Ullrich's most reliable domestique, and half the Tours he's completed, he was not only setting the pace in the mountains but also setting up the train to lead Zabel to the line in the sprints.

I agree this is the most exciting Tour to date, though to be honest I'm a bit disappointed in not only Armstrong's performance, but his 'excuses'.

1. Beltran attacked too hard.
2. I was dehydrated in the TT and lost 15lbs of body mass. 15 lbs WTFIRL!?!?!
3. I am still recovering from my TT performance.

I just don't know. He's had moments of amazing luck in this Tour, and he's matched some brutal attacks, but the final week is going to take nothing short of a miracle for him to stay in yellow.
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Post by Kelshara »

Those words about Vinokurov weren't mine, but what several "experts" said before the Tour.
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Post by Tegellan »

Can't really watch today's stage but following it online and by calling friends. All i can say is : Oh, my god!
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Post by Denadeb »

I'm not a huge fan of bike riding but I was impressed by the sportsmanship shown today.
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Post by Tegellan »

Looks like Armstrong finally set it straight, wednesday will show if he can keep at it. It is down to0 Ullrich and Armstrong now for the yellow jersey, I am not sure which one to put my money on right now i must admit.
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Post by Zamtuk »

Holy shit, Armstrong crashed with 6 miles to go. Got back up and won the stage, putting him 67 seconds ahead of Ullrich. Vinkowhatever had a bad day and fell to 2:47 behind Armstrong.
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Good to see the group with Hamilton, Ullrich and the others playing it sportsmanlike. You shouldn't lose the yellow because of a minor crash, and they followed that.
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Post by Zamtuk »

Armstrong payed the same respect to Ullrich during the 1999 Tour de France.
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Post by Topper »

i thought it was the 2001 tour.
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Post by noel »

Yeah it was '01. Major props to Ullrich and Hamilton for doing the gentlemanly thing like Armstrong would have done for either of them. I look forward to Ullrich dominating the Tour when Armstrong retires, and I pray that a healthy Hamilton can accomplish a lot in next year's Tour. Another example of sportsmanship was Armstrong, like he's done in years past, acknowledging the effort and encouraging the rider that had been leading the stage for so long when he overtook him on the final ascent.

All I can say is. Holy fucking shit. I nearly had a heart attack this morning... twice! The first one was when the spectator’s musette caught Armstrong's handlebars, and he went down with Mayo on top of him, the second when he clipped out of his pedal and nearly crashed a second time. I had already been screaming at my television for him to attack, go, etc, and what I was seeing is just unbelievable.

Today is the first day where Armstrong has looked like the Armstrong of old. It used to be, someone would attack him, and he'd immediately counterattack and blow right by the attacker. This hasn't been the case this year until today. Mayo attacked, and Armstrong countered, and then Mayo and Ullrich were on his wheel. It was truly amazing. Then he crashed, almost twice. The speed was slow enough on the ascent that really the only thing hurt was his pride. When he rejoined the waiting leading group, instead of just hanging with them, much to my amazement, he rode right through and continued his attack. It was nothing short of incredible.

At this point, Armstrong is in an incredible position. With the 64 seconds he has on Ullrich, he's in an excellent position for the time trial, and so is Ullrich. I do think Armstrong can win, but Ullrich can too. Based on the time gap, I think it's fair to say that this has been, and will continue to be, the most riveting tour since Lemond and Fignon had their epic battle.
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Post by Kelshara »

Of course I am going against the majority here, but.. I am not so certain Lance would have waited this year. I know he did 2 years ago, but this year he has been whiny when things did not go his way. Making up stupid excuses and generally not taking hard times very graciously wont win you my support for sure. I didn't like his arrogance and I didn't like his whinyness either *shrug*
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Post by Truant »

Holy shit today's stage was intense :)

I panicked at the crash...my stomach flipped over and brain just KNEW that someone was hurt, thankfully I was wrong. Then at the near second I repeated heh...

I have nothing but respect and admiration for the pack that waited...it's amazing nowadays...when sportsmanship is so rare at the professional level...to see a whole sport, dominated by such incredible sportsmanship.

And then the comeback! He's a machine ffs!
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Post by Truant »

Kelshara wrote:Of course I am going against the majority here, but.. I am not so certain Lance would have waited this year. I know he did 2 years ago, but this year he has been whiny when things did not go his way. Making up stupid excuses and generally not taking hard times very graciously wont win you my support for sure. I didn't like his arrogance and I didn't like his whinyness either *shrug*
yeah I think you've made it clear by now. And I think it's pretty safe to say we get it:

You don't like Lance.
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Post by Kelshara »

No, actually my point is that less and less people here like him. He used to be used as an example of how an athlete should behave etc, now mroe and more sport writers etc are critical to him. And I agree to some extent that he seems to have problems handling rough times during the Tour.

And blowing off the entire post with that comment is just.. well.. lame.
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Post by noel »

Kelshara wrote:Of course I am going against the majority here, but.. I am not so certain Lance would have waited this year. I know he did 2 years ago, but this year he has been whiny when things did not go his way. Making up stupid excuses and generally not taking hard times very graciously wont win you my support for sure. I didn't like his arrogance and I didn't like his whinyness either *shrug*
I don't know how you can even begin to say that. Say what you want about Lance from your perspective, but within the pro peloton, with the exception of Robbie McEwen (who is the BIGGEST asshole in the peloton) or Cedric Vasseur (who's been fined twice in this Tour for holding onto a team car). Lance is well liked and respected enough to have been waited for by all of his chief rivals (i.e. the people that matter).

Additionally, in the last 3 years I have yet to see him pass a lone leader and not acknowledge their effort.

Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwen have been talking the entire Tour about Lance's huge surge of popularity with the french media and public due to the fact that he now speaks french, and has made himself much more accessible to their media and fans.

I realize you might not like him, but a lot of people do, and given the fact that neither you nor I hang out with him on weekends, I think the opinions of his peers are what really matter.
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Post by Kelshara »

heh every time somebody says something you disagree with you go off on the "I can't believe how you can say that!" tangent. Quite amusing :) Anyway, that is neither here nor there.
Lance is well liked and respected enough to have been waited for by all of his chief rivals (i.e. the people that matter).
Actually, any athlete is not only dependant on his rivals but also the public in general. Why? Because if the public dislikes an athlete, they will also remember who sponsored him. It's like that in any sport.
Additionally, in the last 3 years I have yet to see him pass a lone leader and not acknowledge their effort.
Of course, that doesn't cost him anything does it? Call me cynical, but if Lance's only chance to win the Tour was to not stop and wait I have NO doubt he wouldn't stop this year. Yes I am very cynical, I am well aware of it.
Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwen have been talking the entire Tour about Lance's huge surge of popularity with the french media and public due to the fact that he now speaks french, and has made himself much more accessible to their media and fans.
Duh? A Frenchman will go from spitting on you to offering you the shirt off his back the second you learn French. It's pretty much like how some Americans react if you say a single bad thing about their country...
I realize you might not like him, but a lot of people do, and given the fact that neither you nor I hang out with him on weekends, I think the opinions of his peers are what really matter.
And a lot of people don't. And the bottom line is: The peopel who pay him money is who counts.
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Post by Karae »

What the fuck...this is still going on?
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Post by noel »

Kelshara wrote:heh every time somebody says something you disagree with you go off on the "I can't believe how you can say that!" tangent. Quite amusing :) Anyway, that is neither here nor there.
I aim to please. ;)
Actually, any athlete is not only dependant on his rivals but also the public in general. Why? Because if the public dislikes an athlete, they will also remember who sponsored him. It's like that in any sport.
In case you haven't noticed, the public loves him, especially in the States and France.
Of course, that doesn't cost him anything does it? Call me cynical, but if Lance's only chance to win the Tour was to not stop and wait I have NO doubt he wouldn't stop this year. Yes I am very cynical, I am well aware of it.
See if you really wanted to discredit him, you could have simply pointed out that when he previously waited for Ullrich, they were on the descent of the second of four climbs, and he needed Ullrich to work with him for the remainder of the day. I don't agree with what you said, and I have nothing other than history and the actions of the peloton to support my argument. You have a feeling. I think that means I win. ;)
And a lot of people don't. And the bottom line is: The people who pay him money is who counts.
Well, yeah. You might not have realized this, but cycling costs money. A lot of money as a matter of fact. Devoting your life to any sport costs money, which normally comes in the form of sponsors. If I could get people to pay me money to ride, I'd do it in a second.

Don't worry, Kelshara. Lance's reign is nearly at an end. I strongly believe he'll either retire at the end of this year, or the next. Lance doesn't like to lose, so I don't see him continuing to ride if he loses.
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Post by Truant »

Kelshara wrote:And blowing off the entire post with that comment is just.. well.. lame.
If you want to think of it as blowing off...then go right ahead. You've made it abundantly clear in several posts that you don't care much for Lance, and would like to see a any of a number of his rivals win.

I made the statement, that you had made it clear that you didn't like Lance. If that's blowing it off, well then...this must be Greek and I'm in the wrong class.
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Post by Owenn »

Aranuil,

Living in Texas, specifically Austin, where Lance resides and trains, all we hear about is him competing in the TDF. Does he compete in other cycling events throughout the year, I assume he does but these aren't even mentioned here in Austin if he does.

Is the TDF the first big cycling event of the season or just the only one anyone cares remotely about?

Just wondering, thanks...
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Post by Tegellan »

It's the biggest one.
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Post by noel »

Owenn, the Tour de France is the biggest event in the world of international cycling. It's what is called a 'Grand Tour'. Italy and Spain both have 'Grand Tour's' as well. The Giro d'Italia, and Vuelta a Espana respectively, but the Tour de France is the most important, the highest purse, and I believe the oldest. 2003 represents 100 years since the Tour de France was first started way back in 1903.

Lance competes in approximately 8 professional cycling races per year. The majority of them are preparation for the Tour de France. He will also compete in certain events for publicity (for the event), or charity. The Tour is not just a physical effort it's a tremendous mental and logistical effort, and the team needs to be prepared to deal with the logistical challenges they'll face during the tour so they do a few events to get prepared.

The likely reason you don't hear mention of any of the other events is because we live in the USA where cycling is mostly considered recreation or a nuisance, and is largely not taken seriously as a sport. Through no fault of their own, the average American probably assumes that Lance is the only American in the Tour, or conversely that Lance's team is made up of nothing but Americans. The average American would be hard-pressed to name anyone in the tour except for Lance. It's just not an American sport; bottom line.

If you want to follow the sport, there are some great web sites available, and OLN TV (Outdoor Life Network) has begun airing coverage of the 'Spring Classics', the Giro and the Vuelta.

Cycling is a sport rich in history, and personal triumph, but it's not a sport that most people who are unfamiliar with it, or who have never experienced it first hand can sit down in front of and enjoy. The intricacies of the sport will likely be lost.

Short answer is that the Tour de France is the only event that Americans will tolerate hearing about. ;)
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Post by Fesuni Chopsui »

Aranuil wrote:Short answer is that the Tour de France is the only event that Americans will tolerate hearing about. ;)
That is of course only if it is immediately changed to the Tour de Freedom! :wink:
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Post by Owenn »

Thanks, Aranuil, seems to me like you know your shit about cycling! 8)
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Post by Kelshara »

It's kind of interesting since I live in the US most of the year but in Europe right now. In the US I didn't hear anything about Giro d'Italia when it happened, while here it was covered. Not as much as TDF but still, it was covered. And Norway only had one person in it I think (like we only got 1 Norwegian in TDF since the US Postal guy wasn't picked this year), yet they send all the stages live on 2 channels. We also have coverage of the single day "Classics" etc.

Anyway, about Lance.. heh I should have known better than say something negative about an American hero :p After all these years in the US I have still not figured out the need for heroes, wether in sports, military etc. My "feelings" about wether he would have stopped or not was based on his reactions to the rough days earlier in the Tour. He didn't handle them real good, and you yourself said he doesn't want to lose. You also agreed that the excuses he came with were poor and surprising.

Anyway, I like the sprints better anyway :) Green jersey is still exciting!
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Post by Kelshara »

Should have read the paper first today! If anybody reads Norwegian, here is the link: http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2003/07/23/374255.html

Translating some parts of it here:
"Nobody likes him, he is arrogant", Denis Roux (leader of Credit Agricole team)

"Lance is a typical American, he rolls over anyone who stands in his way", (Steffen Kjærgård, teammate on US Postal)

"When a French rider wins a stage he sits in the tv studio for an hour and a half. When Lance wins he has already finished the drug test and his massage by this time. Lance doesn't care about the Tour de France circus", Tor Hushovd (Credit Agricole, in hunt for the green jersey)

"A large group of the tv viewers around the world waits only for one thing: For Lance to hit the wall"

Oh and it also says that the French has always hated him (see: the hints that he used doping for his first win) and still do. Interesting to see how different views there are even on sports (I am well used to it in politics etc).
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Post by Owenn »

3:04 p.m. The chase is not coming hard from the peloton... indeed, Armstrong is now taking a ... a... a rolling nature break, always an impressive feat that not all riders can manage.
That was from Velonews live update a few moments ago. Must be an odd sight to see on TV, if they show that kind of thing. :lol:
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Post by Truant »

.......ok this is the last time I respond to you about this.

I don't care that you don't like Lance. I don't care what you say about Lance. You can say he ate his own babies....I don't give a fuck, you can say whatever you want.

You had made several posts about not liking Lance. I made a post that you had made it clear you didn't like Lance.

I didn't say, OMG YOU COMMIE FUCKING BASTARD DIE ANTI AMERICAN SCUM, did I? No, because that's not me. Say what you want, don't be silly :)

I was just stating what you had made rediculously obvious. It's something I do, those who know me even had an acronym for it. :p
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Post by noel »

I watched all of the stages of the Giro d'Italia on OLN TV. Too bad I really don't like Simoni. Pettachi was great and Cipo were interesting as always.
Kelshara wrote:"Lance is a typical American, he rolls over anyone who stands in his way", (Steffen Kjærgård, teammate on US Postal)

"When a French rider wins a stage he sits in the tv studio for an hour and a half. When Lance wins he has already finished the drug test and his massage by this time. Lance doesn't care about the Tour de France circus", Tor Hushovd (Credit Agricole, in hunt for the green jersey)

"A large group of the tv viewers around the world waits only for one thing: For Lance to hit the wall"

Oh and it also says that the French has always hated him (see: the hints that he used doping for his first win) and still do. Interesting to see how different views there are even on sports (I am well used to it in politics etc).
Regarding the comments of his teammate:
I hate to break it to you Kelshara, but the object of a bike race is to win it. The business of the bike racing is winning. I'm sorry you don't like winners, but that's the reality.

Regarding Tor's comments:
Yeah it must really suck to want to win so badly that recovery is more important than inflating your own ego by carousing around with reporters. I have a fairly good idea of what Lance is doing after retreating to his hotel because I went to a presentation by the USPS team chiropractor last year. In a race that lasts 21 days, how you recover is as important as how you race if not more.

Regarding the large group of viewers:
Well umm yeah. I think this is common for every sport. I don't think I've ever seen an athlete that was universally loved by everyone. Michael Jordan might have been close, but there were people who absolutely hated him as well. Please try to tell me something I don't know.

Finally, regarding potential drug use:
Lance claims to have never used performance enhancing drugs. Lance has never tested positive for anything, and he's probably one of the most tested athletes in the world. One of the reasons he moved to Girona was because French officials would show up at his house at 8 o'clock in the evening and demand a drug test. You also might recall the huge shakeup in the '98 tour which saw the disqualification of the entire team of Festina, including French darling Richard Virenque. Virenque later admitted to using performance enhancing drugs, probably for each time (except now) that he won the maillot pois yet the French still love him. The point I'm making is that speculation over Armstrong doping has been proven to be unfounded (perhaps you remember a certain investigation into USPS and Armstrong) while known dopers still exist in the peloton and are loved by the French public. The French are a funny people. If Armstrong lost to a french rider who was later discovered he'd been doping, I doubt many of the French would care.
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Holy Hell what a stage today!

Hamilton looked like he was falling behind on the first steep climb and had to call to his teammates for help, then on the final climb up Col de Bagaruy Nicki Sørensen along with a few others started to stage an offensive that sent Hamilton off - at one point he had 5 minutes to Ullrich and Armstrong.

It didn't shift much in the standings (Hamilton now at #6 instead of #7), but the gap is closing and saturday's time trial looks to be more and more interesting.
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Post by Truant »

Didn't get to see the early show, but saw the second one...Wow

Hamilton gets my 'holy fucking shit that man is a beast' award.

It may not have had much impact on the standings...but the fact that I can't even believe he's riding, much less in the top 10. And today he took it to the line...geez. Words can't even say how impressed I am :)

It's getting closer each day it seems...this one feels like it's gonna come down to the line :) Unless someone pulls the ace from their sleeve.
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Post by noel »

Hamilton has been nothing short of remarkable. I can only speculate on what could have been if he hadn't crashed. Clearly he came to the Tour on form.

Interestingly one of the first people to come over and congratulate him was Armstrong. :)
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Todays stage was, in my mind, one of the best shows of the past 4 years. I'm hooked on Le Tour again, curse it!
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Post by Tegellan »

Today's stage=teh win

This tour is easily the most exciting one in 4 years, not a bad word about Armstrong, but watching him win these past 4 years just hasn't been all that exciting. Great sportsmanship and all, but not a lot of excitement.

Loving the tour once again!
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noel
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Post by noel »

I'm a nervous wreck for the final Time Trial on Saturday. It's going to be rivetting. :!:
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
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