tranquility bay?

dast911 · Post by **dast911** » July 13, 2003, 9:33 pm

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... 72,00.html

a friend on aim sent me this link last nite, quite sad

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » July 13, 2003, 11:54 pm

I am at a loss for words. What a fucking sad world we live in when parents feel they need to incarcerate their children because they can't understand how to deal with teenagers.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » July 14, 2003, 2:06 am

Father: son! your back from tranq! how do you feel
son stabs father to death
Son: well im 18, and i feel OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS better now

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » July 14, 2003, 7:30 am

i'm just speechless

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » July 14, 2003, 8:37 am

Looks like someone learned something from the Nazi's concentration camps.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » July 14, 2003, 1:24 pm

That is horrific.

Burke · Post by **Burke** » July 14, 2003, 2:55 pm

Utah breeds some fucked up shit.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » July 14, 2003, 5:24 pm

This is what parents do when they refuse to take responsibility for the fuck-ups that their kids have become because they can't fucking parent their own kids. This place is some sadistic assholes wet dream come to life. I don't have a problem with short term boot camps lasting a month or two. But sending your kid away for years is just wrong. I bet there is some bad shit that goes on behind closed doors here.

Deward

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » July 15, 2003, 6:36 am

I used to work in a secure psychiatric hospital and we treated our most dangerous patients with more humanity than that place (and these were people we needed direct government permission for if we wanted to move them from one building to another).

Those poor fucking kids, man. If their folks think they're fucked up now (for "bad attitude" and "smoking cigarrettes" FFS) wait a few years is my advice.

That story has been turning over in my mind since I read it so I'll prolly post at length whenever I can actually formulate some thoughts about it.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » July 15, 2003, 10:24 am

Me and my room mate were talking about this place a few days ago, someone posted a similar link on the SA Forums. It is probably the first time I've ever read something and immediately thought, "I'm going to write my congressman about this." What they do to these kids is nothing short of brain washing. I find the fact that places like this exist, and parents voluntarily send their kids there to be extremely disturbing.

Apparently there was a case awhile back where someone sued a father who had placed his child at Tranquility Bay. I think it was his sister, but I'm not sure. Whoever it was, they actually managed to win a court order demanding that the father remove the child from the place. Also, US law dictates that any child aged 14 or more can request to go to a US Embassy. Once the child is within the Embassy the child can request asylum, which they would more than likely receive once they recounted what happened to them at the school. Of course I'm not sure what would actually happen to the people at the "school" if they were to deny the request. Of course, how many kids even up to age 18 know they have the right to request to go to a US Embassy.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 15, 2003, 11:32 am

Call me nutty but when I was reading that article, all I could think of is how I might resist authority and inspire uprising if placed in that situation.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » July 15, 2003, 11:44 am

You don't think that has been tried? Everyone who finds themselves in a place like that tells themselves that they can't be broken, they will resist, they'll fight back. I'm sure everyone working there has seen it many times. Sure, you would resist for awhile, but the people running that place have nothing but time. You would break down eventually, any one would.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » July 15, 2003, 11:52 am

I worked in a critical care child and adol. psych unit for 3 years. After being an affiliate member of the APA since Jr.High it eventually made me quite disgusted with the whole bullshit process.

While I agree with this type of system for critical care, i.e. SHORT TERM (less than 2 weeks) and where they are a danger to themselves. It's completely innapropriate for long term care. There are military schools for kids who can't behave but they are still under the laws of this nation.

What these parent's are doing to their children is, as one person already put it... more harm than good. The sad thing is that the people who can afford to send their kids to some freak'O place are most likley too busy to spend a decent amount of time with them anyway. If they did the kids probably wouldn't be "acting out." Hell I worked with hard-core gang members (some incarcerated for murder) and even most of them just wanted someone to give a shit about them, that is all these kids in TB need. Yet instead their incapable parents have sentenced them to years of psychological trauma which they will probably never recover from... sad, just sad.

Makes me want to get some friends, a couple of black hawks and a schnook to go rescue those kids...

Sorry for the rant...

Marb

Post by **Sylvus** » July 15, 2003, 11:55 am

Call me a total asshole but when I read that article the first thing that popped in my head was "A lot of kids need that." Granted, that particular place might be too harsh, but have you ever seen some of those little assholes that are on Jenny Jones or Jerry Springer or their ilk? I really don't know how you get through to some of those kids. I was fortunate enough to have a tight-knit family that gave me a lot of love and I, in turn, respected them well enough that we never really had any problems. But there have to be kids that just won't listen or respect their parents. There are also parents who cop-out, but what about the kids that won't listen? What do you do in that situation, just let them do what they want and hope for the best? Beat them? Or send them somewhere that you believe will help them out?

I'm not really sure how I feel about this place, I know I'm mostly taking the counterpoint to the popular feeling on this board just because I hate a one-sided argument.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » July 15, 2003, 12:04 pm

My point is that a parent who can drop 40K a year to have their kids behavior problems correct is NOT the same parent that their kids would be on Jerry Springer. If they can afford that kind of money I'm betting that it's more the parents rather than the kids.

Marb

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 15, 2003, 12:07 pm

i think you are dead on Marb.

My wife used to be a guidance counselor at an elite private school. The worst part about her job was the parents expecting the faculty there to raise their kids (it wasnt a boarding school). I'm not saying all rich people are this way with their kids, but some are.

My best friend in high school though was also a kid who just no matter how much his parents tried was pretty much a fuck up. Their methods werent always the best but they tried very hard. Its a tough situation, and all kids are different.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 15, 2003, 12:31 pm

My brother was an extremely troubled youth. I remember my parent's frustration, as well as the huge impact he had on other family members. I would've sent him to Tranquility Bay if I were my parent's and could afford it.

There is a very valid remark in that article.

"'People who say this place is too harsh, they've never had their own troubled kids"

After my own childhood, I see merit in this solution. Desperate times call for desprate measures. There are much worse solutions than TB. Just look at my brother's life of today.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 15, 2003, 12:51 pm

I think this place is one of the sickest manifestations of the "instant gratification syndrome" so prevalent in American soceity.

These parents had prolly tried sending their kids to shrinks, but because most psychologists don't give the parents booklets, pamphlets, and progress reports while they're trying to establish a dialogue with the kid, the parents can feel like nothing is happening. Especially when the kids continue acting out after a month of therapy. Now, any legit shrink will tell you (very correctly) that a month isn't enough time to even fully diagnose a moderately troubled patient, much less begin treatment. For a business owner, executive, ect. who is used to getting what they want when they want it, this can seem to be a long delay.

So they send their kid to this gulag, and immediately these fucktards are sending them propaganda, telling them what to expect to see and hear from their kids, how it's just a part of the system. Then when they see exactly that, it reinforces their belief in the program.

The combination of physical punishment, social isolation, and sensory deprivation that these kids get put though is just sick.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » July 15, 2003, 12:55 pm

I don't give a fuck how troubled someone is - brainwashing and 18-month on your FACE in solitary is torture and will cure not one damn thing.

If they're that uncontrollable and troubled (and if they are then you've very likely got problems going back a long way) let them make their mistakes. A little trouble with the law or whatever is going to work just as well and be about 3000x more humane than the shit I read in that article. And before any more devils advocates spark up, remember: They take no addicts that need rehab. They get sent there for deviating from mummy and/or daddy's perfect little life-plan for them.

This is my perception of US parenting. it's a stereotype, sure, but indicative: You deify your children until such time that they can think for themselves then they become adversaries. You seem so terrified of transgressions because they somehow mark you for life that you will not allow teenagers to fuck around and experiment with whatever. This neurosis then passes to the next generation.

It just boggles my mind. I'm the eldest of three children and was undoubtedly the "bad one". I never studied when I was supposed to. I was disrespectful and had a bad attitude. I experimented with booze and almost every drug you care to mention, got into scrapes with the law and was even hospitalized briefly once. This was all in the space of 3 years [1]. I learned a hell of a lot from it (hard lessons, sure) and was in no more danger of "getting myself killed" than I am when I drive on public roads. Yet now I have a great relationship with all of my family and, by every quantifiable measure, am more "successful" than anyone in my family has been for 2 generations. None of my activities during these "wild years" has affected me in the slightest in my professional life.
I guess this is a rambling plea for some perspective - I was 10x worse than any of the poor kids mentioned in that article.

[1] Interestingly enough many years later I was chatting to my mum about this period of my life and she had an amazing confession. Just before "the wheels came off" so to speak, she was unhappy with the direction my life was taking (gap year, no real plans to get a degree as I couldnt decide what I wanted to do, working lots of varied semi-casual jobs) and had prayed for "my life to change direction" at her church group. LOL well she reckoned she got her wish but not in the way she hoped. She was a lifelong christian til that day and hasn't been to church since

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 15, 2003, 1:39 pm

Mark my words, one of these days, A kid that came out of that place is going to go back there and seriously fuck up some people with an AK-47.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 15, 2003, 1:45 pm

vn_Tanc, there is quite a large difference between a teenager, and being a severely troubled teenager. I cannot vouch for your instance, but I can definatly voice my opinion in regads to my brother's. He was, and is, a troubled person. The two of us are complete opposites, despite being raised in the same manner, in the same family. He had a tendancy towards violence against family members and himself. My parents could not contain him, and believe me, they tried. Psychologists couldn't help. The State of Michigan could not help.

There are definate limits to a parent's abilities.

Now, I'm totally against people that would send their kids to TB for something mundane, like smoking pot or having sex. However, there are other, much worse scenerios, where I easily understand the logic behind trying to correct your child's behavior.

rhyae · Post by **rhyae** » July 15, 2003, 2:58 pm

Show a troubled kid that article and scare them straight!
It would sure make me think twice.

And tanc, sorry your perception of US parenting is so low, but we manage.
Most of us turn out just fine thanks.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 15, 2003, 4:36 pm

You know I just can't get this story out of my mind today.

I keep thinking about how you could resist.

What is it about defiance that resonates at one's core?

It's such a powerful emotion. Why would someone undergo long periods of discomfort just to hold on to an act of non-submission? What would cause someone to get so mad that they'd rather be nose down for 18 months than to budge one inch to their oppressors? That's a powerful motivator being expressed.

It just makes you want to fight, resisting a mantle of authority. Why is that desire so strong in us as humans? Or is it just a Texan thing?

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » July 15, 2003, 4:41 pm

There are definate limits to a parent's abilities

Yeah Fair, don't get me wrong. But as you say, you have plenty of authorities, hospitals etc to deal with just that. If a person is THAT troubled there is plenty of help on offer.

The kids in that place were nothing like that and I fail to believe anything going on there could help anyone genuinely ill. I've seen ECT and it's more humane than that shit.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » July 16, 2003, 11:49 am

have you ever seen some of those little assholes that are on Jenny Jones or Jerry Springer or their ilk

Have you ever seen their parents?

Odds are the kids haven't either.

Sure, there are such things as troubled kids. For every one of them, there are ten more being doped, re-educated or abused because their parents are cowardly shits who can't be bothered assuming the reponsibility for the lives they have created.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » July 16, 2003, 12:59 pm

I did not feel sorry for the kids, not one bit, until I read the part where the girl spent 18 months on her face on a hard floor. That's torture, made my jaw drop. Solitary confinement is 100X better than that kind of treatment.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » July 16, 2003, 7:33 pm

I just read that.

I am at a loss for words, honestly. I would have gone crazy in a fucking hellhole like that. My sympathy for the children in there. My scorn for the parents for who I will pray for a week straight that god kills them in a particularly powerful fashion, so the court can assume control of these children and bring them back.

Sickening