Druid CH on Test *NO SHIT*

Hayley · Post by **Hayley** » August 21, 2002, 6:42 pm

ROFL

much

Brittney

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » August 21, 2002, 7:10 pm

Still trying to figure out where the bitch is in this.

The druid spel is 3k max, or 75% max, same time it takes to land CH for the same mana. This spell can be cast by druids, a class that while does have the ability to solo, it gets reduced as they level if they care to do anything decent on ANY place on this overcrowded server. A druid cannot Res it misses a heal, and if a druid is using this particular heal as the main healer, then the druid isn't going to be doing much else, relegating the druid down to being an under powered under hp'd ac'd cleric.

Shamans do make great healers. Torpor is wonderful. Slow is even better. Slow is why I ask a shaman to come into a group, not for his or her healing abilities.

Yes, playing a cleric is boring as hell. I could barley stand playing my cleric 40 some levels w/o getting pl'd before I switched accounts and let Ak do the beatdown thing.

However.. you're not going to do ANYTHING major without a cleric. So yer not wanted in "easy" AA exp zones. First, bullshit, second, let's go do HARDER ZONES. Please, come to DN. Let's do rats, please, come to Ssra, let's do the entrance mobs, please, come to deep CT, come to King, come to Juggs, come to deep chardok come to akheva, please, come to Umbral.

This change assists backup healing on raids, it does NOT replace you in any way shape or form. At WORST it puts 3 druids in the CH chain acting as one cleric, assuming they all cast at once. HOW is this that bad of a thing, HOW is it unbalancing? It makes your life, and ours, easier... I'm sorry if you're having trouble getting a group at 60 with AA.. welcome to the world of every other class who isn't the big 3.

~Akaran, 60 Paladin
~Vodixi, 52 cleric.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 21, 2002, 7:57 pm

Every class msg board has whiney posts. We won't be needed, blah, blah.. I don't know about yall, but I would rather have fun with friends and kill shit than bitch and complain every time shit gets nerfed, etc... True class balancing is impossible because once one class gets something new, another class will be upset. Can't please everyone...

PS: SKs need an insta-FD like monks get, I think I been nerfed /cry.

PhyscoBloodspiller · Post by **PhyscoBloodspiller** » August 21, 2002, 8:18 pm

If you guys know 10k is max a CH can do, so 2.8k < 10k, stfu hammer

Balkerain · Post by **Balkerain** » August 21, 2002, 8:21 pm

Hmm what is next a new mez song for bards..... oh wait that got added on test also.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 8:43 pm

Physcoblodwhat ROFLMAO Fuck off n00b kthx

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 21, 2002, 9:15 pm

LOL! ROFL!

PhyscoBloodspiller · Post by **PhyscoBloodspiller** » August 21, 2002, 9:15 pm

Calling me a fucking newbie because i am telling you to shut the fuck up, because you are whining about us druids getting CH then go ahead. Cool maybe I am a newbie to you but you have never seen me ingame, know my skills, or even know how long I have even played EQ

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » August 21, 2002, 9:38 pm

I have, I do, and I do - you're a fucking newbie

You are still, however, right ;p

Let the change happen, see how much better it makes life for everyone before you call it the end of the world.

Revs · Post by **Revs** » August 21, 2002, 10:30 pm

Welcome Wadana, JACKASS!
Now back to our regularly scheduled program

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 21, 2002, 11:33 pm

PhyscoBloodspiller wrote:Calling me a fucking newbie because i am telling you to shut the fuck up, because you are whining about us druids getting CH then go ahead.

Fuck, read the damn spell description. It's not Complete Heal! (Despite Verants retarded naming convention)

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 21, 2002, 11:44 pm

Bah, this thread isn't entertaining anymore...

Needs more smilies

Pubin · Post by **Pubin** » August 21, 2002, 11:49 pm

According to your signature you have a "fuckin' fifty four" druid. Many of the gamers on this board could piss out a "fuckin' fifty four" druid in about 2 weeks /played or less.

The way I see it, your claim about anyone not knowing your skill or how long your have played EQ is somewhat ironic. Based on the level/class of your "fuckin' druid" you inadvertently reveal a few facts. Either you haven't played very long, yet know how to level, and perhaps understand your class very well. Unfortunately, a short /played time tends to limit one's overall understanding of the big picture and large-scale game mechanics. This applies to understanding why a druid CH is a good or bad thing for the game.

On the other hand, you may have been playing since Beta 10 hrs/day and all you have to show for it is a "fuckin' fifty four druid". This case basically results in well...you not knowing your class, nor game mechanics. Doh! Everything you might know about high level exp grind and encounters has come from stories or the experience of others.

Basically, I would venture to say you don't know shit. You are a n00b. The time is now for you to go back to the safehouse (or whatever the druid jackoff message board is) and check out the phat magelo profiles and dreamy spoilers. TT

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » August 21, 2002, 11:58 pm

Somebody wanna give me a copy of group complete heal, darnit?

Or sell, whichever.
*sulk*
Varia

Truant · Post by **Truant** » August 22, 2002, 12:04 am

i'm still laughing that his name is physco...

Klydon · Post by **Klydon** » August 22, 2002, 1:18 am

Couple of different takes on this from the perspective of a 60 druid.

Clerics being needed in most xp groups has steadily been going down. Same for a warrior. Druids and Shaman can heal very well in xp groups. Pally's and SK's can tank well in most xp groups too.

None of us are a central part of the big guild uber raid where clerics and warriors are front and center the focus of the raid.

I realize a lot of my class whine and bitch about these facts and they are basically wrong. They also bitch and whine about how druids are "broke" on big raids and they are wrong about that too. The recent healing change to remove the healing penalty was good, but after that, I don't think anything else really needs to be "fixed". Really the only thing druids struggle dealing with in a healing situation is AE and I am not so sure there should be a fix for it. Paladins offer an alternative to Clerics for group heals in those situations.

I have a slower in the group and I can pretty much keep up with heals in probably over 90% of the areas that people XP and that is pretty damm good.

In all fairness to Hammer, the first thing I thought of after I saw the name was the clerics would be screaming for ports..

For a 60 druid with Natures Touch in an xp group, this CH spell is not that big of a deal.

For a level 54-59 druid that can't heal jack very fast (got Superior Heal, which stinks for the casting/recasting time or Cloro Blast, which is great for non-melee, but not very good for melee), getting to 60 is a relief because you feel like you can heal something again. This spell is absolutely huge for them. Ditto Shaman, especially since Torpor is not exactly the most common spell out there.

In a raid environment, this could be quite handy to help cover when you are a bit short on clerics. Considering KoE has traditionally been short of clerics by many guilds standards, we have always had to rely on our druids and shaman to fill in.

I think it is apparent that VI is trying to avoid having a "indispensable" class that you need large numbers of at most big encounters to be successful. Right now, clerics are that and even after this, they still will be, it will just potentially take less of them. Any officer/leader of their guild that does a /who all guildname cleric to see how many clerics they have on right after a big mob is spotted knows exactly what I am talking about.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » August 22, 2002, 1:34 am

Pubin well said sir

Karae · Post by **Karae** » August 22, 2002, 1:55 am

Letania wrote:Shamans have slow, druids have damage/evac, clerics have...

Res. Clerics have res. It's not fun? Guess what, neither is slow or ds/evac. And, let's not forget stuns. I know what's coming, so I call preemptive bullshit. Stuns ARE useful.

If you're bored, stop playing. Find something that entertains you and don't waste another minute playing this game that bores you.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 22, 2002, 2:24 am

sitting in the teamice chat tonight, i heard that clerics have a whole new line of spells to help them solo, also shadow knights are getting a spell that adds 900 agro, like they fucking needed that in the first place. Also heard some big changes with the exp system, you'll be earning a ton more exp for higher level mobs, which is cool, and a few other gay changes to other classes that vi shouldn't be wasting time on when warriors are horribly broken. Also heard that when you wield shields you get block added, mitigation bonus, and an agro increase.. Note: none of this is verified just rumored to be on test or going to be soon.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 22, 2002, 3:05 am

Well said Kly

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 22, 2002, 7:31 am

PhyscoBloodspiller wrote:If you guys know 10k is max a CH can do, so 2.8k < 10k, stfu hammer

edit: nm.

Boo · Post by **Boo** » August 22, 2002, 8:11 am

Personally I don't give a shit if they put CH or MB on a fucking rusty dagger. If you suck at the game you suck at the game. Your experience, your ability to play your class to the bleeding edge, and your reputation is what get you invited into groups, raids and what-nots. No really, don't kid yourselves... which would you rather invited along? A reputable cleric or an ebayed one?

But... Boo! What about game balancing? LMFAO! How long have you been playing this broken piece of shit now? You're expecting class balancing from VI? Wake the fuck up and smell the bed sheets.

The best players I've met are those who know how to make the best of what they were given under the worse circumstances. If you're as good as you think you are with your class, then what's the problem if some other class get some more shit, albeit the ability to heal better? Fuck that. Fuck them. Play the game. Don't let the game play you.

/em goes and find some coffee

PS: People still play dr00ds?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 22, 2002, 8:14 am

Truant wrote:i'm still laughing that his name is physco...

I'm sure "Psycho" got filtered out.

Which is usually a reasonably clear indication to anyone not mentally retarded that Verant doesn't want you to name yourself that or any variation therof, but some people just don't geddit.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » August 22, 2002, 8:40 am

"When a cleric goes lfg, and every group has a druid/shaman as main healer, wtf are we supposed to do for exp? We can't solo for shit, well, we have those 'uber' undead nukes/dots, guess I can hit the grey for a sliver of blue exp every 30 mins or so....
Druid or shammy can't find a group? They go solo. You have the option of both.
Now, think about all those clerics that are between 50-60. They are seriously fucked."

Play a rogue, the similarities are there:
1) best melee damage = best healer
2) can't solo for shit = can't solo for shit
3) other melee with damage close to ours can solo effectively = other priests that cannot heal anywhere near a cleric can solo effectively.

Welcome to EQ, where no one class is required *except for clerics*. Clerics still have this huge advantage in raids but loose it somewhat in exp groups, you are almost playing the same game as the rest of us now (Still the best healer + best buffer + best rezzer is certainly an attractive combo).

The whole cause of this advantage for clerics is CH. Due to its crazy high 10k cap it is the only heal spell that has scaled as PC HP have continually gone up, leaving the other 2 priest classes in the dust.

I have 5400hp with raid buffs, when I have to back out of melee range\ae for a heal the only class that can heal me in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable amount of mana is a cleric (1 CH vs 2-3 tor(ture)por vs 3-4 NT). This is a rogue mind you...the disparity on warriors is worse.

Clerics due to that one spell have had it way too good for too long. Throw in the best HP\AC buff and the best rez and you have been gods. I do understand your resistence to loosing this advantage.

--------------------

I think this spell will help the druid class tremendously while making little difference to the cleric class. I would still like to see druids get a group heal and their skin buff line stackable with clerics, great buff that is basically useless now due to stacking issues - the only priest class that has this problem.

Shaman are already set, slow + torpor + malo + buffs are godly (maybe a DD or DOT upgrade). Making druids effective in raid situations helps us all.

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » August 22, 2002, 9:29 am

I play a clr and I don't give a fuck. In fact I'll be happy if these changes go into effect. More healing means bigger mobs die and that's all I care about. STFU crybabies, this change will benefit your guild....wtf is wrong with that?

Teurde

Ninan · Post by **Ninan** » August 22, 2002, 9:31 am

comes to any forum and threatens to quit the game or whine about this druid shammy heal addition needs to have their head examined.

I am for this change and look forward to it being implemented game wide as much as I do seeing Sleepers Tomb re-itemized and populated. Any tools added to help a guild succeed I am in favor of. Keeping clerics focussed on the MT and RT's and let shaman and druids heal the secondary melee is perfectly fine with me. There is absolutely no chance a CH rotation can be set with druids involved on any NPC that lands significant damage by melee. One fizzle and the tank dies and fzzles are as much part of healing as the heal itself.

I hate clerics who whine and bitch before they have really thought this through and think maybe they need to make an alt and switch mains. As far as the exp camps go, join a guild and exp with the guild and you will never be left out in the cold when looking to exp somewhere. That too helps the guild out.

From a druids perspective they now will get invites into exp camps where before they were delegated to the sidelines begging for a group. They will get more invitations to join bigger guilds where before they would be told sorry we have enough port monkeys and not recruiting druids. Druids in the hi end game do little more then play taxi as it stands now. When this goes live Druids will again have more fun in the game, raids will be more successful for any guild, and all in all everyone will be satisfied.

Ninan

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 22, 2002, 9:54 am

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 22, 2002, 9:58 am

5 new spells on test for clerics.
Ethereal Elixir group 1200 heal over 24 sec for 975 mana
http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=2180&source=Test

Ethereal Light DL upgrade 1600 heal for 525 in 5 seconds.
http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=2182&source=Test

Ethereal Remedy 975 heal for 400 mana in 2.75 seconds.
http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=2462&source=Test

Yaulp 5 with haste and 10/tick mana regen

New summoned hammer that they think will have a focus effect.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 22, 2002, 10:02 am

Oh lookie, something to staunch the tears....that was quick.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 22, 2002, 10:08 am

Ninan wrote:From a druids perspective they now will get invites into exp camps where before they were delegated to the sidelines begging for a group.

It still doesn't address the druid overpopulation problem, there are a buttload of druids around. Most outdoor zones are infested with them

I'm not against the change at all, but then I didn't think they were broken before either. I do think they are overpowered until they hit the mid 50s. Then the game everyone else has had to play since level 1 is a rude awakening.

Aarinu · Post by **Aarinu** » August 22, 2002, 10:26 am

Just an add on here, but new spells on test for clerics:

NEW CLERIC SPELLS ON TEST
A numberof new spells were added to the Test Server for Clerics today. Two of the spells should provide some extra versatility to the healing options available for Clerics, whilst the others may be more useful in general gameplay.

Here are the details:

Hammer of Judgement
Yaulp V
Ethereal Light
Ethereal Elixir

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 22, 2002, 10:38 am

Oh lookie, something to staunch the tears....that was quick

Quite the opposite. This seems to have really opened the floodgates. Overall, clerics are not impressed with these spells.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 22, 2002, 10:40 am

Those upgraded healing spells ensure that clerics are the kings of healing. If the clerics don't like them then clerics don't like the healing role.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 22, 2002, 11:21 am

it reduces the role of a Cleric to basically that of only needed for Boss Mob encounters.

Welcome to the world of the warrior. Aside of raids, I cannot think of one situation where a warrior is more useful than a monk, ranger, or a knight.

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 22, 2002, 11:25 am

Sabek wrote:Those upgraded healing spells ensure that clerics are the kings of healing. If the clerics don't like them then clerics don't like the healing role.

Group CE= For those that have group Cheal, it's more efficent to cast that than group CE

Ethereal Light= More mana than Cheal for a 1600p heal.

Clerics didn't ask for more heals, we have enough. We just want an option to grouping for exp. Most cleric posts I've read are GLAD to have this new druid heal for raids, it's not raids that's the issue. It's the exp grind. Why is that so hard to understand?

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » August 22, 2002, 11:32 am

/agree Mr Boo

Clerics aren't the only "replaceable" class in exp groups, and they surely to hell have not been replaced as the primary healers in the game by this little tidbit.

A boss mob kill needs Def tanks (not needed in exp situations), CH from clerics (not needed in exp groups), wizzies (desired but not needed for exp), and rogues (desired but not needed for exp groups). See a pattern there? With the exception of wizzies, none of the above are great soloing classes (all can do it in certain spots with various degrees of success...).

Lets let the changes run their course on Test before we cry that the world is ending, shall we?

Aarinu · Post by **Aarinu** » August 22, 2002, 11:38 am

It's the exp grind. Why is that so hard to understand?

Welcome to the world of being a wizard. At least you all where wanted in a group at SOME point! I've spent my entire career looking for a group.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 22, 2002, 11:42 am

Ok lets look at this from a different view.

What ideas do clerics have for what would make them exp group desireable?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 22, 2002, 11:52 am

no class should be required for the average xp group situation.

that goes for clerics, enchanters, warriors, rogues, whatever.

in early kunark you had to have an enchanter and a cleric period to do anything. nowadays it is good that most classes have a fair amount of versatility to them.

there are multiple healing options for xp groups as there are multiple crowd control options for xp groups, as there are multiple melee options for xp groups.

an ideal xp group in my mind, still has a cleric and an enchanter as the base. i don't see how this has changed it at all, but it does present more people with versatile options.

the game is fundamentally about being social and working together, and i think overall this change would see a lot more druids/shamans included in things than it would see clerics excluded from things, be it xp groups or raids.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 22, 2002, 12:03 pm

Hrmm, maybe a cleric will jump in here and correct me, but is more healing spells really what clerics want/need?

How about improving their DDs? Shorten the cast time and tweak the mana cost a bit. Better yet, give them some sort of improved chance of landing on certain types of mobs.

How about a spell that added a big chunk of ATK and a nifty proc to the clerics weapon? Maybe make it short term or something to limit it. Or tie it to mob type, deity affiliation, whatever.

Give a cleric something to do besides sit on their arse and stare at 5 HP bars for hours on end.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 22, 2002, 12:04 pm

Voronwë wrote:no class should be required for the average xp group situation.

I agree. Many people aren't willing to be flexible and choose a camp/target based on the forces they have though. Picking people up as you go, and moving from area to area as/when you can is a lot more fun than spending 2 hours building a group, and only having an hour to actually kill stuff. I'd rather beat on stuff for 3 hours myself.

Even more insist on having cleric-chanter-warrior as the base of a group. While it works well more often than not, it's pretty limiting if you don't have one of those classes handy.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 22, 2002, 12:15 pm

Actually that new Yaulp 5 spell has +75dex +50attk +10 mana/tick +25% haste.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 22, 2002, 12:59 pm

The Yaulp spell sounds interesting. What is the duration of the spell?

Like I said before most Clerics are happy with the way we are but if we wanted something else let us be somewhat useful in either melee or casting. Some sort of action other than buffing and healing. Yes, I know we can stun and root and tank when absolutely necessary but something other than a buff or healing.

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 22, 2002, 1:41 pm

Yaulp lasts 4 ticks
Recast time = 18 secs

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 22, 2002, 1:47 pm

wonder if enchanters bitch long enough we will get a snare spell and maybe some good nukes

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 22, 2002, 1:53 pm

Drasta wrote:wonder if enchanters bitch long enough we will get a snare spell and maybe some good nukes

Shush you, I want FD. Snare too, but thats way behind it on my list

Ever notice enchanters haven't really been changed since Kunark release?

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » August 22, 2002, 1:53 pm

Yaulp5 duration was 24 sec... 4 ticks

recast 18 seconds

costs 25 mana but you regen 40 over the duration

so every 4 ticks if you cast this constantly you have an extra 3.75 mana/tick regen.

great for downtime medding if you have a horse so you get the med benefits.

now make it cost 50 mana and make the duration 1 minute and you've got something..

-Ajran

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 22, 2002, 2:01 pm

[/quote]Ever notice enchanters haven't really been changed since Kunark release?[/quote]

i hope i did the quote thing right ...oh well yea really enchanters soooooo need to be rebalanced ......what do we do now? oh seive and tash ...maybe mez once or twice other then that we sit on our ass and c2/kei people

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 22, 2002, 2:12 pm

Hey Drasta, try this:

Instead of bitching, spend about 2 months collecting data, then form informal polls of all the enchanters of various lvls in reguards to what they feel they are lacking. Next, compile the data and prioritize what issues need to be addressed the most. Post the first rough draft on your class msg board and factor in constructive critisisim. Go through several drafts until you reach a reasonable concensus. Post your final version and see what happens. All in all, the process should take 4+ months, give or take, and be sure to address any patches or fixes that VI implements during that time.

Once the final version is up and online for everyone to comment on, be prepared for everyone and thier brother to fight you every step of the way and raise arguments based on opinion and not fact. Be ready for plenty of people that talk out thier ass and want to argue for the heck of it. Be ready for people that have no idea of your class's strengths/weaknesses to talk like they know everything, even though they're not even members of your class. Your chosen class board will bare the brunt of trolls and grief players for weeks afterward. Good times!

Should VI share your concerns, things will get addressed in due time. The DG is full of many impatient people, and I believe they casued themselves unneeded stress if they woulda just been more patient.

GL getting snare and I look forward to an Enchanter petition soon! (Btw, VI dosen't like petitions)

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » August 22, 2002, 2:13 pm

ROOT FOR MAGES!!!!!!

oh sorry...

-Ajran

VeeshanVault

Druid CH on Test NO SHIT

Any cleric that...

Re: Any cleric that...