Druid CH on Test *NO SHIT*

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » August 21, 2002, 2:24 pm

1) SabeK (not SABEN) is far from a n00b.
2) Who gives a shit if they give a druid better healing? When they get ageo and res then you can start bitching.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 21, 2002, 2:26 pm

"Hrmm see the point?"

All I see is some clerics being whiney bitches. If that's what you mean then yes. I see the point.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 21, 2002, 2:27 pm

Actually Hammer no I am not a noob.

What are these druid HoTs you talk about?
Natures recovery? Don't think so that is a short duration stackable regen. Not a heal over time?

I still fail to see how a 75% heal is going to touch the healing supremacy of clerics.
You realize a 75% heal on for instance 2k person is only going to heal 1500? Not the 3k it caps at.
And for a full fledged tank its going to cap a lot lower than 75%. For instance I get to about 6.2k fullly buffed (and my equip is by no means outstanding). This heal will actually end up be a 50% heal for the same mana/time as a real cleric CH.
This healing spell has a built in cap for low hp chars in the 75% and a cap for high HP chars in the 3k cap.
Where is the destruction of the cleric class?

I am not saying clerics shouldn't get something in the bargain as well. I was just kind of joking at the "sky is falling" attitude clerics are having when I said true south.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » August 21, 2002, 2:36 pm

I haven't decided wether this is a good change or not.. however..

comparing druids getting a 75% CH when they ALREADY have healing abilities to a paladin getting FD and backstab. (abilities they in no way shape or form have anything close) is stupid. Now if you were to say perhaps paladins and sk's getting dual weild or triple attack.. well now you have an argument..

Druids can ALREADY heal.. you are not ADDING an ability to druids you are just making an existing ability more effective.. I think perhaps 75% is a bit much. maybe 50% would be better and more "balanced"

I think i would rather see druids get a 500-600 point group heal at level 56 or something..

-Ajran

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 2:37 pm

Acting like a whiney bitch isn't going to accomplish much.

It seems to have accomplished much for the whinniest class in EQ!

I have never bitched about what VI has given Clerics as far as abilities and spells. In fact I never see Clerics bitching about much except when changes VI makes start to infringe on our boring healing abilities.

All I am saying is VI should be a little more creative when doing their supposed class balancing.

Oh and Assface /ignor you are irrelevant

Letania · Post by **Letania** » August 21, 2002, 2:40 pm

This should go live, but FIRST clerics need something else to add to exp groups. Something that is not only useful but is fun for the clerics to be doing, I have no idea what, but they do need it. Shamans have slow, druids have damage/evac, clerics have... k. Clerics are still THE raid healers, but now (and for awhile) have not been THE exp healers. They should be a viable option in exp groups, not a waste.

Self invis should just be given to them, if anyone thinks otherwise go buy yourself a invis potion off a vendor for 20pp. Components taken off symbols and aego would be nice, they're just an annoyance now, consisting of /t guildleader need 2k to restock my dots after the raid rq. Warriors and Shadowknights are the only classes that need work now.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 21, 2002, 2:40 pm

It's the same fucking bullshit crying that clerics do everytime we get a healing upgrade. I remember the arguments over us getting NT and chloro. The exact same clerics pulled thier own strings and spewed the exact same bullshit as I'm seeing today. A month after the changes they won't be saying shit, just like last time.

I'm sick of waiting on clerics for everything in this game the same way I used to be sick of waiting around for a fucking warrior. Guess what? I don't have to wait on a warrior to get a group going because several classes are now viable options. Same with healing now, so deal with it. Wow, raids don't have to be canceled due to lack of clerics. Wow, smaller guilds are now able to do harder encounters. Whipty fucking do. Time to go delete your cleric!

VI will turn to you guys soon enough. I'm just sick and tired of people bitching about the druid class for no valid reason what-so-ever. Christ, people in this game can really make mountians out of molehills.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 21, 2002, 2:41 pm

Nevermind, someone is a little too close to the issue.

Skunki · Post by **Skunki** » August 21, 2002, 2:43 pm

i think all druids should die in RL.

VI will turn to you guys soon enough. I'm just sick and tired of people bitching about the druid class for no valid reason what-so-ever. Christ, people in this game can really make mountians out of molehills.

Um no they wont, we have CH. Verant never has or never will do anything to truly increase a clerics abilities because of that. If you dont believe me look at our spellbook at 51+ theres like 3 or 4 spells we use all the rest is crap. And look at our class AA abilities its a joke. I am not whining here but just debating why we will never be thrown a bone

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 21, 2002, 2:50 pm

Once enchanters get Illusion: Froglok and FD the game will be balanced, and all will be right in the world.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 2:59 pm

Stolen from FOH boards just cause.

CH is a demon but one that must be embraced rather than exorcised. The CH is far too interwoven into the entire game-mechanics at this point to remove it and so we must accept it and move on.
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Actually, if Verant cared and tried, it wouldn't be that hard to remove it. Just take it out, increase Remedy to 600 hp, DL to 1500 HP, drop 25% cast time on all heals, and reduce damage output of all level 55+ mobs from velious on by 33%. That should just about take care of it.. If not, further tweaking could be done. Will Verant do this? Pfft, hell no. They are the laziest group of folks I've ever seen.

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These spells dont destroy clerics. Clerics are still the only class capable of pulling off 5k+ heals, group CH, and 96% rezzes
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Rofl, you had to mention group CH because a 2 item list wasn't sufficient huh? You realize this is just about the worst spell we have. I haven't bought it, never plan to, never will. I can think of so many better ways to spend the what.. 900 or more mana?

Also, 5k+ heal means nothing on raids. The heals have to come hard and fast, leaving room for error. Also, Crit Druid CH is pretty much 5k, so you're wrong there. Also who the hell cares about 96% rez? Paladins can 90%. Maybe in Kunark where people still worked for exp. Even if you die 20 times on a raid and get 90%s every time, you can make it up in maybe 2 hours in a good solo / duo exp spot.

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Even with these in place I would rather have a cleric in a exp group than a druid or a shaman. Why? Because I like getting rezzed if it hits the fan. Yes you can replace a cleric with a shaman or a druid for exp groups now and that is a GOOD thing.
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Sorry if I roll my eyes, but I, nor any other cleric, would believe this for a moment. Stuff won't hit the fan. Even if it does, it isn't particularly hard to find a rez in any zone. Also, as someone else stated, even if you are the purist who would still want cleric, no one else would. Why take a cleric who will CH for at best 4k on average, when you can have a shaman do half of that plus their great damage, debuffs, slows, and mana regen.

Also, you realize you can substitute a shaman for a cleric NOW in at least 80-90% of the group situations? Contemplate which is better: 1) ~10:1 heal and 1 buff; 2) 6:1 heal (Torpor), a plethora of stat buffs, Avatar, Haste, Slow, great dots, even a dog that would outdamage a cleric 4:1. Hint: If this decision takes more than 3.5 seconds of thought, read it slower, because you must be missing something.

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Clerics are gettign burnt out on the Cheal-chain game mechanic. Guilds can raid with 3-4 of any other class in the game (and much less for some) , but I dont see my guild killing the Emperor of Ssra with 4 clerics.
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Ok so taking us from a "must have many of" to "must have 1 for MGB Aego" is a good thing? Of course clerics won't be turned away on a raid for this, but it's not like they'd be needed either.

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Clerics still have Rez, they still have the group heals, they still have the fast heals, they STILL HAVE Complete Heal. This just lessens the burden on them and lets everyone else who was stuck doing an exp night because only XX clerics logged on have a bit more fun.
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Rez: covered earlier. Also, pallies rez 94% as well as we do. Hardly a cause for celibration.

Group Heals: Where have you been? HWoP >>> Any group heal I have

Fast Heals: Druid / Shaman both have my fastest heal, DL, it just has a different name.

Complete Heal: Excluding oddball circumstances, a DRU/SHM would now be able to CH 1/2 to 2/3 as well as me now.

Lessens my burden? If this goes life you now only need maybe 2 clerics per raid. One to rez, one to rez the rezzer. It's painfully obvious you either play a druid or shaman or have some other agenda to make them strong.

Just 2 weeks ago I started a shaman. Guess he'll be getting OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of play time now. - another pissed off Cleric

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 21, 2002, 3:04 pm

group CH kicks ass Hammer.

pretty nice spell when you are up against a mob like AL or somebody with HOskar breath or other nasty AE.

Hammerstalker wrote:Rez: covered earlier. Also, pallies rez 94% as well as we do. Hardly a cause for celibration.

what are you talking about dude? Resurrection (59 for PAL) is 90%, Revivescence is 96%

Hammerstalker wrote:Group Heals: Where have you been? HWoP >>> Any group heal I have

660 hp, 2sec cast time on HWoP, kicks ass. Group CH is 6 times longer and heals 6+ times as much hps. you don't seem to like the spell, but i think it kicks ass.

Hammerstalker wrote:Complete Heal: Excluding oddball circumstances, a DRU/SHM would now be able to CH 1/2 to 2/3 as well as me now.

oddball circumstances being when you are healing a warrior who has 6k+ hp? that is kind of normal nowadays. so a druid heals half as good as you. ok.

Hammerstalker wrote:Lessens my burden? If this goes life you now only need maybe 2 clerics per raid. One to rez, one to rez the rezzer. It's painfully obvious you either play a druid or shaman or have some other agenda to make them strong.

total exaggeration. if a guild needs 8+ clerics for AoW, adding a couple dru/shm to the rotation may cut that down to 7 clerics. and that is on a mob that only hits one person. try one that has nasty melee and an AE like AL.

bottom line is that clerics are the most vital class in the game. this is stuff on the test server, and to be blowing a gasket about it while they see about tweaking it, is premature to say the least.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » August 21, 2002, 3:10 pm

Aabidano wrote:Arguably the most powerful class in the game...

Hmm. I'd definitely emphasize the "arguably" portion of that statement.

Velasca · Post by **Velasca** » August 21, 2002, 3:12 pm

I feel so hated.

Where's the love??

Velasca

3 kills from 54 Druid
Grundale! Why aren't you leveling me??

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 21, 2002, 3:17 pm

Hey Honk, pretty rational repsonse to my rant, I must say

I just think adding this would allow exp groups to work better and faster, as well as guild functions.

When VI turns it's eyes onto clerics, I think you'll be plesantly surprised. They have done very well with the classes they have focused on within the past year. I agree that clerics are due. Sooner the better.

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 21, 2002, 3:23 pm

If this goes live, and clerics get no upgrade in solo ablilites, or something to make us more viable in exp groups, I see alotta cleric mains turning into raid bots.....

Yes this heal will own at raids, it will help clerics as far as assist heals etc.
BUT
When a cleric goes lfg, and every group has a druid/shaman as main healer, wtf are we supposed to do for exp? We can't solo for shit, well, we have those 'uber' undead nukes/dots, guess I can hit the grey for a sliver of blue exp every 30 mins or so....
Druid or shammy can't find a group? They go solo. You have the option of both.
Now, think about all those clerics that are between 50-60. They are seriously fucked.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 3:24 pm

Voro

what are you talking about dude? Resurrection (59 for PAL) is 90%, Revivescence is 96%

Reread my friend first of all I did not write that post I copied it from FOH boards as stated. Secondly it says Paldins can rez 94% as good as me.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 3:28 pm

Here is the main problem.

Also, you realize you can substitute a shaman for a cleric NOW in at least 80-90% of the group situations? Contemplate which is better: 1) ~10:1 heal and 1 buff; 2) 6:1 heal (Torpor), a plethora of stat buffs, Avatar, Haste, Slow, great dots, even a dog that would outdamage a cleric 4:1. Hint: If this decision takes more than 3.5 seconds of thought, read it slower, because you must be missing something.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 21, 2002, 3:28 pm

I won't defend druids because they already whined and got their uber bear pets.

Shaman are the only healing class for their races (barb, ogre, troll, beastiality). Giving shaman a big time heal makes sense. The shaman heal should be 3K and the druid 2K...not vice versa.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 21, 2002, 3:36 pm

Bear Pet = teh uber

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 21, 2002, 3:38 pm

Hrmmm, clerics are being replaced in grind groups because they aren't needed.

Hrmmm....

/who all cleric 60

Hrmmm.....

Bullshit. Guilds will carry clerics around on their shoulders and feed them grapes all day to make sure that rez and CH are available come raid time.

If you are going to argue, pick a point that you can stand on. Not one that can be easily disproven by a browse through the roster of any raiding-level guild.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 21, 2002, 3:39 pm

I don't agree with giving Shaman the better healing. They are already pretty handy to have; slow, better buffs, better healing (Topors).

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 21, 2002, 3:40 pm

OK hammer, on this "rez issue" i dont understand what you are talking about still.

and oh my god, so what if you can substitute a shaman for a cleric in a group situation.

NEWS FLASH, you already could. CH is not needed for a shm to succeed healing in xp groups, and unless they have a sleeper key, i dont see them dropping out avatar that often in XP grinds. moreover, in risky situations, a cleric will still be preferred because celestial is good for dropping on a puller during a nasty pull, and they can rez. shammies already are the best duo partner for a melee for xp grinding, giving them a 2k heal doesnt change that. this is about allowing dru/shm to contribute to raids more effectively. a shaman as primary healer in an xp grind would do about half of what you listed. They wouldnt drop a pet, they wouldnt be dotting either. dots are a waste of mana if you have hasted melee on frogloks.

but god forbid if an xp group doesnt REQUIRE a cleric. i mean what will the world come to.

KilornCloudwalker · Post by **KilornCloudwalker** » August 21, 2002, 3:45 pm

Are you people on crack? You think every level 60 shaman has Torpor? The damn spell is still an ultra rare drop and maybe you ebay types have the 40k to buy it, but most of us don't. Whatever...

Once again druids bitch enough and get whatever they want. Big shock... next overly obvious bit of information please?

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 21, 2002, 3:49 pm

A typical day...

Log on
Port to a zone
Sit/shout LFG
Gate
Port to zone
Sit LFG
Gate
Port to zone
Sit LFG
Gate
Log
Play necro

for 12 lvls, plus 8.5 lvls of aa

BTW, yes, exp groups dont need clerics for exp. Clerics however need groups for exp. See the point?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 21, 2002, 3:51 pm

send me a tell if you are LFG daina, cause i will never turn down a cleric healing partner.

yes i can get xp solo, but i can get 50% more xp duoing with a cleric

important thing to remember is that nobody has "gotten" anything yet, and that none of this stuff has gone live.

8/28 may be a very interesting day though.

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 21, 2002, 3:59 pm

I have LFG hotkeyed

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 4:03 pm

Voro I don't give a SHIT if a exp grind group can do without a CLERIC. What I am saying is even though I play a Cleric I would rather have a Shaman or Druid in my EXP group if this change goes live than a Cleric. Yes I can stun, root, MOK or undead DOT but so fucking what! I would far rather have all of the extras a Shaman or Druid bring to a group than my one buff and my fucking heal spells.

Ya Falanthas that is what I want to do. Be carried around and fed fucking Grapes so I can go kill some fucking UBER mob when I am needed. Otherwise leave my useless ass in the fucking closet when you are all out EXPing.

Learn your shit before making statements that are so ridiculous they are laughable.

Cleric Rez = 96%
Paladin Rez = 90%

Do the math! 90/96 = OMFG 93.75% making Paladin's rez 94% as good as mine! are we clear now?

KilornCloudwalker · Post by **KilornCloudwalker** » August 21, 2002, 4:06 pm

But I like that you can summon food and drinks when I get hungry, Hammer.. See, you got uses!

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » August 21, 2002, 4:08 pm

want to make clerics more useful in a group or make them more in demand?

+20% xp modifier if you have a cleric in your group

JUST KIDDING.. jeesh you people all need to get laid.

-Ajran

Lisandre · Post by **Lisandre** » August 21, 2002, 4:10 pm

About Group Complete Heal: I always have it memmed during a raid. With even rangers having 4K+ HPs these days, it's the most mana efficent spell we have. I love it.

And, unlike druids, when we get agro from heals, we have alternatives to becoming a green splat on the ground. Hehe.

As far as XP groups are concerned, I mostly just duo with a friend and just add people as they log on. Most XP camps have become so easy that the bigger problem is finding a place a to go, I think. I love teaming up with decently equipped rangers in particular -- they do good damage, have nice utility spells, and they can slow.

Edit: typo

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 21, 2002, 4:11 pm

KilornCloudwalker wrote:Are you people on crack? You think every level 60 shaman has Torpor? The damn spell is still an ultra rare drop and maybe you ebay types have the 40k to buy it, but most of us don't. Whatever...

Weren't you level 54 like 4 months ago? I'm amazed you managed to track down all your vendor spells.

Any shaman worth a fucking shit has torpor, because they aren't newbs who have to put together a pickup group to farm juggerfags and roll for their own spells.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 21, 2002, 4:20 pm

I'd rather have a cleric in the group even if this goes live. Cleric rezzes, real CH and buffage still can't be beat for efficiency.

I'm (usually) too lazy to go look for a cleric though, and not too many folks come LFG in places I normally grind exp. I hate VL, ME and Seb with a passion, so grabbing a druid is a lot easier. Of course, the wife plays a 58 druid, so a druid isn't too hard to find most days

I've done almost all of 59 with a druid healing, and most of 58 partnered with a druid and/or shaman. They do pretty well now IMO, but aren't cleric replacements and won't be even with this.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » August 21, 2002, 4:26 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:I also think they capped it at 3k to take into account AA skills like healing adept and such. Those would indeed crit into true complete heals at times. Just my 2cp in reguards to VI logic.

< 6000 HP != Complete Heal. That won't even CH a caster after PoP...

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 21, 2002, 4:28 pm

KilornCloudwalker wrote:You think every level 60 shaman has Torpor?

I don't know any 60 shaman without torpor.

/shrug

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 21, 2002, 4:28 pm

If the Cleric is doing anything other than heal then they either have a kick ass group, a second healer, or is fatally stupid. At least that is the way it was when I played a cleric. The role of cleric has always been pretty much set in stone; heal heal heal med, rinse and repeat. The only combat clerics I have ever seen in action and not get their groups killed were Tagad and Garvok. Varia used to it and scare the shit out of us. Granted, things have changed quite a bit since I played a cleric but the more things change the more they stay the same.

KilornCloudwalker · Post by **KilornCloudwalker** » August 21, 2002, 4:29 pm

No, ass wipe..I was 50 four months ago. Not all of us can live on welfare like you. I work to pay my bills, not make my money lying on my back...or is it all fours for you...?

Back to the topic at hand... no, not what you're stroking to get your next fix, dumb ass... Not all 60 Shaman have the money to buy torpor, nor the means to loot it, especially with its very limited drop rate. Do some homework next time, before you open your mouth for anything the requires more thought than swallowing...

Karae · Post by **Karae** » August 21, 2002, 4:36 pm

iandaina wrote:If this goes live, and clerics get no upgrade in solo ablilites, or something to make us more viable in exp groups, I see alotta cleric mains turning into raid bots.....

Yes this heal will own at raids, it will help clerics as far as assist heals etc.
BUT
When a cleric goes lfg, and every group has a druid/shaman as main healer, wtf are we supposed to do for exp? We can't solo for shit, well, we have those 'uber' undead nukes/dots, guess I can hit the grey for a sliver of blue exp every 30 mins or so....
Druid or shammy can't find a group? They go solo. You have the option of both.
Now, think about all those clerics that are between 50-60. They are seriously fucked.

This doesn't change anything. The only reason to have a cleric now is for res and the hp/ac buffs. That still stands. Druids and Shamans can already heal perfectly well in an exp group. This affects raiding only.

The real cleric exp is in duoing, anyway. Clerics complement any melee partner exceptionally well. If you don't have any melee friends to duo with at this point... better just quit EQ.

iandaina · Post by **iandaina** » August 21, 2002, 4:42 pm

My necro is almost 30 now and lvling fast...

If the Cleric is doing anything other than heal then they either have a kick ass group, a second healer, or is fatally stupid. At least that is the way it was when I played a cleric. The role of cleric has always been pretty much set in stone; heal heal heal med, rinse and repeat. The only combat clerics I have ever seen in action and not get their groups killed were Tagad and Garvok. Varia used to it and scare the shit out of us. Granted, things have changed quite a bit since I played a cleric but the more things change the more they stay the same.

Last time I was grouped in Velks, in frenzy, I was main puller. Stayed FoM the whole time and wanted to do something to feel like I was helping the group. That was a fun day

With all the aa points running around now, keeping a group alive in normal exp zones isn't hard. CT is kind of a challenge, but once you get to camp it's OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS easier.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » August 21, 2002, 4:55 pm

Simple fix here folks, introduce any new cleric abilities at the same time as the druid abilities on test server. Suggestion make cleric heals more mana efficient and take less time to cast. As already illustrated earlier by the learned colleagues (Fallanthas excluded here) Clerics are already not necessary in exp groups, so why nerf them more. For those of us that play clerics and have spent countless hours getting our epics and to level 60 to have more of our abilities stepped on is a slap in the face. All of the druids I have spoken to believe that they are not a broken class that needs fixing. So it must be all the whiney bastages playing other classes that propogated this so called fix. Yes I will put my cleric on the shelf, and play a different class (rogue prolly). Will I bring him out for raids... will have to think long and hard on that one.

But alas this may never go live

Katria · Post by **Katria** » August 21, 2002, 4:56 pm

Druids and Shamen are fine as they are. If you want a cleric's abilities, play a cleric. Clerics can't replace a druid's various abilities and a druid shouldn't be able to replace a cleric one and only role.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 21, 2002, 5:07 pm

Wait clerics get MoR thats a DS and DS is the realm of mages/drudis.
My god nerf the clerics nerf the clerics.

Hammer get over it.

Hmmm what was it people used to say to pallys, rogues, druids, necros and all the other classes that complained they weren't any good.

"You don't like your class, go play another class."

When the high end game grinds to a halt because there are no clerics around, everyone will realize how great clerics are and beg hammer to come back to EQ.

Get real.

Jivundus · Post by **Jivundus** » August 21, 2002, 5:13 pm

You know... we went through the same thing with the druids/shamans before and everyone bitched that this would DESTROY the cleric. Ashamedly I was one of those ppl.

But I don't usually have a problem finding an xp group if I want one. I can solo just fine now that I have my Judgement spell before that I solo'd in The Grey and got pretty decent xp.

Clerics will always be needed. I'm happy that druids and shamans are getting this spell. It DOES take a lot of pressure off of me knowing that if I get interrupted or I'm out of mana I can have one of my fellow Druids/Shamans back me up. 90% of the time I am on raids as the only cleric or the only cleric that knows how to heal so having an alternative resource is awesome.

I've been on many potential raids where we had 4+ druids and only me as the cleric and we had to cancel it because we "HAD" to have another cleric.

Here's the deal, ppl get bored with playing clerics. From my experience we are usually the last man on the totem pole for armour and item upgrades. On raids we have to sit on our ass most of the time praying to god that we don't have a fuck up that causes us not to have enough mana to heal and get wiped. We constantly have people sending us tells to trapse all the way around the world to rez their stupid ass because they weren't paying attention.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE playing a cleric but most people don't and it takes a certain kind of person to play a cleric well. But a cleric CAN do more than just heal and now with this change it frees me up to experiment with those abilities cause I know if I'm low on mana I have a druid/shaman backing me up. We have awesome buffs, we have great stuns, our Undead nukes are awesome and we will always be needed.

If you know your job then you don't have to feel threatened about druids/shamans getting some 2900 hp heal that takes as long as your CH.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 21, 2002, 5:18 pm

From my experience we are usually the last man on the totem pole for armour and item upgrades.

whoever is doing loot awards for your guild must be nuts then. My experience is that clerics are well compensated for the important roll that they play in raids. They typically get the good items on the first round of distribution because it makes the most sense. Just like giving your main tanks the +hp items, it makes sense to give clerics good items because it increases your overall success. They deserve the items, and it is in the collective interest to gear them up.

i think Karae's point is a good one, this wont even be a CH for casters when PoP comes out.

in relatively average gear i have 4500 hps raid buffed and i'm a wood elf ranger with shit for sta (210 buffed). basically my hps suck and unless you start casting the 2900 version when i was at 50%, it wouldnt top me off if (i am taking damage). i dont have ND or other AAs that up my hp/sta mod either, so my hps are only going to go up over time.

if i'm still playing this game 6 months from now, i bet i'll have 5-5.5k hps raid buffed thanks to new spells, 125 hp bracers that drop off of yard trash, etc., making this change even less of a big deal than the not so big deal it is now.

the only impact it has on clerics roll in raids is that you don't have to call off a raid if you are short 1 cleric to get the rotation down, you just throw 3 druids in to cast their "CH" at the same time, and there is your cleric.

Hayley · Post by **Hayley** » August 21, 2002, 5:25 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with Jivundus.

I'm tired of arguing this on the FoH boards. Everybody just know your role and shut your hole! I mean this in the nicest way possible of course.

Brittney · Post by **Brittney** » August 21, 2002, 5:50 pm

All fucking druids must FUCKING hang! The only good druid is a dead druid... Sept for Hayley cus she owns all even without no new lame ass new spells. If even half the fuckin druids on the server payed atention and busted just half as much ass as Hayley does there would be no need for dumb ass spells like this. But untill then all you dirty ass druids can suck it and Hayley > u all.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 21, 2002, 5:53 pm

Will you all just fucking relax.. Take a look at Lucy and see what VI put in those spells.

Odds are this is exactly like 1 second pet casting and will never see live servers.

This is what Lucy has for these spells..

CH Test - Druid

Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 75% (2925 max)

Mana: 400 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 10 Recast Time: 0
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Resist: Unresistable
Range: 100 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Target Type: All
Spell Type: Beneficial Source: Test 08/21

Classes: DRU/54
Duration: Instant

Cast on you: This spell is a test spell and may not go live!
Cast on other: Someone The ratio and stats on this spell may change! Don't Panic!

------------------------------------------------

CH Test - Shaman

Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 75% (1950 max)

Mana: 400 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 10 Recast Time: 0
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Resist: Unresistable
Range: 100 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Target Type: All
Spell Type: Beneficial Source: Test 08/21

Classes: SHM/54
Duration: Instant

Cast on you: This spell is a test spell and may not go live!
Cast on other: Someone The ratio and stats on this spell may change! Don't Panic!

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » August 21, 2002, 6:10 pm

You know what I see here? I see clerics bitching that they will no longer hold the monopoly on healing melee.

Too fucking bad.

Look through your spell book, tell me every icon is a heal.

Check the / tonight, tell me you can see every level 60 cleric in game.

Then tell me you are a pathetic class with one ability, who is going to be abandoned if anyone else gets a healing upgrade.

Quit crying because your fucking ivory pedestal now has cracks in it.

Hammerstalker PE · Post by **Hammerstalker PE** » August 21, 2002, 6:27 pm

*EDIT* Deleted for two reasons. One this arguement will go no where and two although I think Fallanthas has his head up his ass I still like the tard and didn't want to leave my flame up.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 21, 2002, 6:33 pm

Why the fuck should a Cleric even bother going through all those painful levels taking 10 times longer than almost any other class just to get useful spells only to have VI come along and award a class that needed NO fixing spells that put them above Clerics in a EXP group situation?

Perhaps because there's more to EQ than EXP groups.

How would you feel if Clerics were given SOE SOW EVAC SUCCOR and All of your DOTS and Debuffs?

Same way I'd feel if Clerics got FD. I wouldn't care. Although if you got all Druids abilities I'd expect to see Druids get an actual CH and not this.

VeeshanVault

Druid CH on Test NO SHIT

I agree wholeheartedly...