Black Hawk Down II

What do you think about the world?
Post Reply
User avatar
Jassun
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 131
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:45 pm

Black Hawk Down II

Post by Jassun »

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/07 ... index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A team of several dozen U.S. Marines is on standby in Spain for possible deployment to the war-torn African country of Liberia to reinforce security at the U.S. Embassy in the capital of Monrovia, Pentagon sources said Wednesday.

The Marines are waiting at the U.S. base at Rota, Spain, and could leave at a moment's notice. They could land in Monrovia within six hours of receiving orders.

Several hundred Americans remain in Liberia, where intense fighting between the government of President Charles Taylor and rebel forces has continued despite a June 17 cease-fire.

If the security situation in the Liberian capital deteriorates, the Americans could be evacuated by additional U.S. forces or possibly by aircraft under State Department contract, sources said.

The developments come as the Bush administration debates whether to intervene in the conflict in Liberia, which was founded in 1822 as a settlement for freed American slaves.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has urged the Security Council to dispatch a multinational force there "to prevent a major humanitarian tragedy."

Annan said a Security Council member should head the force, and African leaders have called for the United States to lead it because of the nation's long ties to Liberia.

Senior Cabinet officials met Saturday to draw up a range of options to present to President Bush, a senior State Department official said Tuesday. The choices range from logistical support for a multinational force to thousands of U.S. troops, according to senior U.S. officials.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said the United States is "actively discussing and reviewing what next steps may or may not be," but he did not rule out the possibility of committing American forces.

Fleischer's comments provoked a nearly instantaneous reaction on the streets of Monrovia, where thousands of people gathered outside the U.S. Embassy to cheer a possible American presence.

"We feel America can bring peace because they are the original founders of this nation, and secondly, they are the superpower of the world," one man said.

Bush has called on the Liberian president to step down. Nigeria had been working with Taylor on a possible deal for him to take refuge in that country.

The Liberian leader wants assurances a U.N.-backed court that has indicted him on charges of perpetrating war crimes in neighboring Sierra Leone will not seek his extradition.

One problem, however, is that Taylor has agreed to deals before, then backed out.

Officials said the United States was working closely with members of the Economic Community of West African States on diplomatic efforts, particularly Ghana and Nigeria.
hmm, reminds me a little of Mogadishu, Somalia about 10 years ago.
Vizzini from The Princess Bride wrote: You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is "Never get involved in a land war in Africa." But only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."
OK, OK, I know Vizzini says "Asia" instead of "Africa". Never the less, I am still against getting involved in this conflict any more than necessary to remove the Americans in the embassy out of country.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.
User avatar
Adex_Xeda
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2278
Joined: July 3, 2002, 7:35 pm
Location: The Mighty State of Texas

Post by Adex_Xeda »

I wonder if they asked the UN for help before asking the US.

Do you happen to know?
User avatar
Kelshara
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4176
Joined: November 18, 2002, 10:44 am
Location: Norway

Post by Kelshara »

Pretty sure they didn't. Liberia has a long history of close contact with the US, so it comes natural for them to ask USA for help. Although, as explosive as the situation is there atm I am not sure if it would be a good idea to move in.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Liberia is the united state's responsibility.

personally though, I think africa is a fucking lost cause and every country in the world should get the hell out of it and let them self-destruct. throwing more money and manpower at africa is basically equivalent to flushing it down the toilet.
User avatar
Jassun
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 131
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:45 pm

Post by Jassun »

http://newsobserver.com/24hour/world/st ... 8306c.html

..........

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan wants U.S. troops committed to peacekeeping in Liberia to give more "heft" to the operation, Boucher said.

Powell talked by telephone to Annan twice on Tuesday, while the U.N. chief was traveling in Europe, and expects to talk to Annan again late Wednesday, Boucher said.

..........

U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan has suggested the United States take a leadership role in peacekeeping. West African leaders asked on Monday for 2,000 American troops to head a predominantly African force to stop the turmoil and keep the peace. The Africans said they want an answer before Bush leaves for the continent, but administration officials were noncommittal about whether they will have a response by then.

France, Britain and both sides in Liberia's fighting also have pushed for an American role in a peace force for the country founded by freed American slaves in 1847.

...........
Looks as if the rest of the world thinks Liberia is the responsibility of the U.S. due to the fact that we helped to form the country 150 years ago.

It sounds innocent enough on the surface. However, I still remember seeing dead American pilots dragged through the streets of Somolia after the U.S. deployed there to guard food deliveries.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

oh thats what you were doing in mogadishu. that movie and book led me to believe you were attacking the local warlord.
User avatar
Adex_Xeda
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2278
Joined: July 3, 2002, 7:35 pm
Location: The Mighty State of Texas

Post by Adex_Xeda »

Liberia and Somalia are seperate countries.

Not everyone in "continent" Africa are the same.
User avatar
Adex_Xeda
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2278
Joined: July 3, 2002, 7:35 pm
Location: The Mighty State of Texas

Post by Adex_Xeda »

Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

kyoukan wrote:Liberia is the united state's responsibility.

personally though, I think africa is a fucking lost cause and every country in the world should get the hell out of it and let them self-destruct. throwing more money and manpower at africa is basically equivalent to flushing it down the toilet.
i think we're going to see like 50 years of nastiness or something in Africa till the people can sort out their own political boundaries.

a lot of the political boundaries are arbitrary holdovers from colonialization.

the richness of resources in some of the countries combined with the limited political/economic power of the average citizen, plus lots of racial tension that has yet to be resolved = bad shit.

it is like Europe fromi dont know 1820-1950.

people, whether European or African, are all the same. Everybody is a tribalist. Everybody can be manipulated in social circumstances for the benefit of the powerful few, bla bla bla.

in other words, it is going to be fucking nasty unless somebody like the US keeps it from being that way, which i dont see how 800 troops on the ground will do that.

who knows.
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Post by Fairweather Pure »

which i dont see how 800 troops on the ground will do that.
Maybe each tooper has one of those new guns that shoots a million rounds per minute?
User avatar
noel
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 10003
Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Calabasas, CA

Post by noel »

kyoukan wrote:oh thats what you were doing in mogadishu. that movie and book led me to believe you were attacking the local warlord.
The movie and book focused on the single operation where we were attempting to capture the warlord, Mohamed Farrah Aidid, but we'd been attempting to push our policy in Somalia for some time prior to the events in Black Hawk Down.

I fully blame the Clinton administration for what happened in Somalia. The manner in which we were attempting to enforce our policy was completely flawed, and lacked the necessary support both politically and militarily to pull it off.
Last edited by noel on July 2, 2003, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
User avatar
Adex_Xeda
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2278
Joined: July 3, 2002, 7:35 pm
Location: The Mighty State of Texas

Post by Adex_Xeda »

I'd prefer we finish our business in the countries we currently are working on before dropping troops into another.

To bad we can't put them on a waiting list or something.
User avatar
Jassun
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 131
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:45 pm

Post by Jassun »

Kyoukan wrote: oh thats what you were doing in mogadishu. that movie and book led me to believe you were attacking the local warlord.
Kooky is right. In the one battle commonly referred to as “Black Hawk Down”, Task Force Ranger was attempting to capture Aidid’s Generals by force.

Perhaps I should have used the phrase initially deployed earlier when I posted regarding the reason U.S. troops were in Somolia.

There were many mistakes made on many different levels of our government that lead to BHD. Read the book if you want to know everything that happened. I just hope it doesn’t happen again.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I fully blame the Clinton administration for what happened in Somalia. The manner in which we were attempting to enforce our policy was completely flawed, and lacked the necessary support both politically and militarily to pull it off.
It's funny you say that. I recently saw Bill Clinton speaking on C-Span about this exact topic. First and foremost, Bill claimed 100% of the responsibility. He went on to explain how things happened.

Somalia was an operation that he took over from George Bush Sr. He knew very little about the actual ins and outs of the situation. However, it is bad policy to axe the former President's military policies ASAP. Anyway, the information came forward about possibly being able to capture that warlord. Clinton discussed it with Powell, who said it could be possible to pull off. Meanwhile, Powell had his retirement ceremony. Apparently in all the insuing confusion, a ground commader took Clinton and Powell's postulating to heart, and gave the operation the go ahead. The operation was never given the official greenlight from up high.

Bill Clinton was talking to UoArkansas and he very seriously said "You'll notice nothing like that ever happened again during my administration".

Anyway, it was intersting to hear the ins and outs. Match all the dates up and you'll see his timeline matches up.
User avatar
Vaemas
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 996
Joined: July 5, 2002, 6:23 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: BeaverButter
Location: High Ministry of Accountancy

Post by Vaemas »

Personally...we need to get the fuck out and stay out of Africa and the Middle East. The United States isn't the world's policeman. I have a hard time justifying the death of a single American serviceman or servicewoman except when the United States and its core interests/security are under verifiable threat.
High Chancellor for Single Malt Scotches, Accounting Stuffs and Biffin Greeting.
/tell Biffin 'sup bro!
Post Reply